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Old 26th April 2017, 10:56 AM   #3281
halleyscomet
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Round round, right round...

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
The Torah is the basis of the faith, the teachings of Jesus is based on the Torah—so to bring a person to repentance, the ten commands are presented.

Life is very simple when it is viewed from the basic structure, all sin originates from lying, either to lie or believe a lie.

In the Torah there are different issues that are outlined to make life pleasant.
Mat_22:39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'

So as Jesus explains the Torah is about loving ones neighbor, and the Torah explains how to go about that.

There are the dietary laws as well as laws pertaining to hygiene and the awareness of farming animals and buildings.

There are laws prohibiting certain practices. So, without the Torah we would not know what is sin.

So, the New Covenant is based on the Torah, as out of the 250 chapters, 200 have their origin in the Torah.

One law that embraces most laws is this---Lev_19:16 "'Do not go about spreading slander among your people. "'Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor's life. I am the LORD.

So, today there are laws for every walk of life, based on this one law. There are laws for everything pertaining to the safety of people. So, there are laws pertaining to health today—brush your teeth, wash your hands.

So, these laws are on a parallel to the Torah, although many of the laws that constitutions are based on are contrary to the Torah.

So, the Scriptures highlight where man has adhered to these laws and where man has violated these laws and the consequences. Israel has lost two Temples due to adultery.

So, teach children not to lie, this will ensure a good upbringing.But how will liars teach their children not to lie?
So what?

None of that is relevant, as we have MULTIPLE examples in your posts here of you disregarding what the Bible says.
  1. Do you now or have you ever withheld food, clothing, or sexual relations from your wife?
  2. Why is that question so terrifying that you refuse to answer it directly?
  3. Have you fathered or adopted any children? (If you refuse to answer this one on privacy grounds the site's rules require I respect that decision.)
  4. Have you ever made a human form for any purpose, decorative or otherwise?

Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
But it is not a catalog of your actions. When someone asked you whether you, Paul Bethke personally, have done a certain thing, the answer is not found in the Torah. Please answer the questions you were asked, not others that you wish had been asked instead.
It does make one wonder what he's hiding by refusing to answer such simple questions. I won't speculate on the forum of course.
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Old 26th April 2017, 11:00 AM   #3282
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Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
Wow. Unbelievable. Since your other posts show an extreme lack of knowledge, your statement above continues the pattern.

(Badassery trimmed for brevity)

And humble. Don't forget humble.
I remember reading his post and thinking, "I really hope Zivan weighs in on this."

I was not disappointed.
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Old 26th April 2017, 11:22 AM   #3283
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I remember reading his post and thinking, "I really hope Zivan weighs in on this."

I was not disappointed.
Thank you
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Old 26th April 2017, 12:00 PM   #3284
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
[i]geology > the science of the study of the earth as it relates to soils, rocks, and other such things.[/i]

I am sure that you meant something else, so please correct your posting when you can and that way I may be able to provide you with an intelligent response.
Maybe they are expecting a "Rock God" (Eric Clapton? )
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Old 26th April 2017, 12:03 PM   #3285
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Maybe they are expecting a "Rock God" (Eric Clapton? )


That's some hard-hitting commentary right there.
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Old 26th April 2017, 12:12 PM   #3286
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Paul Bethke,

Please answer the question below:

Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Bump for Bethke. Do you know any other person now alive on this planet whom you would consider a true Christian? Please answer simply with yes or no.
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Old 26th April 2017, 01:43 PM   #3287
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Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
...

Neither have the samaritans. That xian story makes them cringe.

If you want to make a samaritan sick (I do not because I really like them) just mention the "good samaritan" story and watch the eye rolling begin......





...
Whenever I hear Christians talk about the "Good Samaritan" I think of this piece of genius from Mitchell and Webb:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 26th April 2017, 02:19 PM   #3288
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Originally Posted by Brainache View Post
Whenever I hear Christians talk about the "Good Samaritan" I think of this piece of genius from Mitchell and Webb:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


That's brilliant !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 26th April 2017, 03:10 PM   #3289
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Originally Posted by Brainache View Post
Whenever I hear Christians talk about the "Good Samaritan" I think of this piece of genius from Mitchell and Webb:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
That is great, love it!
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Old 26th April 2017, 04:11 PM   #3290
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Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
That is great, love it!


It is hilarious and on point about how racist the original parable is.
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Old 26th April 2017, 09:26 PM   #3291
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
You sound like a psychiatrist. One of many who join the profession trying to understand their own problems. Argument from authority - another atheist canard about religious people to try to show them as irrational, thereby elevating you to rational.

You are projecting your own emotions onto me. I am fairly free of fears, hatreds and prejudices.

I doubt I have expressed religious dogma. However I do support those who do, as trying to better themselves.
I'm a retired cop.

I have a long professional history of recognizing ******** when I see/hear/read it.

If someone I encounter tells me they want to feed the hungry, cloth the naked and house the homeless based on their religious faith and I know that they are doing so, that's fantastic. Unfortunately I have more encounters under my belt where somebody uses their self professed christian faith to run a game on me or someone else in my presence, or to rationalize why the California vehicle code or criminal code didn't apply to them, or to justify their belief that (fill in the blank) whoever wasn't going to heaven and that somehow those individuals should not be viewed as equals under the law.

I can count the folks I've encountered that express devotion to god as love for their fellow humans on the fingers of my hands with a couple leftover.

I've encountered far more that have some weird biological imperative to tell people - including perfect strangers - what kind of slow bake the big guy has in store for them downstairs when they kick off because their church has the wrong sign at the front door.

I've seen enough first hand of the WBC "god hates fags" protests as a member of the Patriot Guard Riders to know that the WBC "old time religion " isn't based on the new testament. There are plenty of people running around loose that imo read the OT and Revelations only.

All of the ridiculous old testament ******** has been endorsed by the most devout spokesperson (self-appointed) for the imaginary man in the sky in this thread, so you claiming that looking at the bible for what it is - racist, sexist and just about any ""ist" you can come up with short of "humanist" is a little disingenuous.

Let me put it this way.

When I was a kid, we were raised as catholic - G.I. in Sicilian history.

My father had no great love for, or obviously against, religion that he expressed when I was a kid.

Like a bunch of things parents don't tell kids till they believe the kid is ready, I never had a talk with my father about it until I was 13-14.

My old man was a cop and he had a couple of side businesses (indoor rifle range, gunsmith) and wasn't always around. At times in the house, it was my mom. me and my two younger sisters.

I had a job, as assigned by my father when he wasn't going to be home.

He explained my job to me using the story of Lot as a negative example. He explained to me that if the bible story was correct,Lot (I'll write it as the old man said it) A *********** coward, a *********** scumbag.

His view of somebody that would offer his daughters to escape consequences made him not something to emulate. He told me what, in his view, Lot could have done to be a righteous man. Something entirely different from the biblical lesson.

He expected me to be that righteous man if something came up while he was away, and he did not expect any angels to visit us anytime in the immediate future.

On a lighter note, There's another comment on the story of Lot that recently ended up in the T.V. series Hap and Leonard, from the books written by Joe Lansdale:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3729898/?ref_=ttfc_fc_tt

The two protagonists, Hap Collins and Leonard Pine, are Texas work-a-day type guys that don't exactly fit in. Hap refused to submit to the draft, going to jail instead (Which Joe did in real life) Leonard did go to Vietnam, but being black and gay in Texas isn't the cake walk that somebody might imagine.

Both characters are extension of Joe Lansdale (gratuitous name-dropping - I know Joe a bit. Introduced by a mutual friend, I told him, hey, Andrew told me why you had to learn the martial arts, you could never remember where you left your gun. Joe looked at him and laughed and called him an ******* for telling his secrets)

In a recent episode a preacher took Leonard to task for Sodom and Gomorrah, and Leonard being gay. To my surprise, because it wasn't in the source material, Leonard went into a comedy version of what my father had told me way back when, but with an articulate turn of phrase This might not be verbatim, but I wish my old man was still around this would have cracked him up:

"Yeah, that Lot, man was he righteous, the crowd shows up, he tells his daughters, O.K. girls, shuck them panties and hit the porch."

Evidently, in some circles throwing girls to a crowd, slavery, rape, genocide and murder and all matter of things that when I hear about documented cases of make me want to get out my hanging rope are acceptable behaviors if they believe their imaginary friend endorsed it in their book of fairy tales.

In light of the facts, telling me that I'm projecting when your fellow traveler in this thread has rationalized these behaviors based on his interpretation of the gospels and has appointed himself spokesman for said imaginary friend and you yourself made a prediction that 2017 is the year that the big imaginary guy will start the countdown, I don't see much difference at all between religious whackjobs 1 & 2.

Before you write me off as somebody with a grudge that's blinded by my anger, there are a couple of catholic charities that I donate money to because they do a great job for the people they help. One is The Little Sisters of the Poor, their St. Anne's home

http://www.littlesistersofthepoorsanfrancisco.org/

Is great at taking care of folks that need it. If you go to the website .I know most of the Sisters in the pics.

The other catholic charity I support is the Salesian's Boy's and Girls club:

http://www.salesianclub.org/

They have great after-school and summer programs, and kids from every economic level are welcome it's not a org. that caters to rich families only.

I'm no hater of (any) religion that when practiced demonstrates the best in human behavior.

What I do hate about (any) religion is when the prejudiced ******** of the world cite the imaginary guy in the sky and their book of fairy tales as justification of their hate or criminal activities.
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Old 26th April 2017, 09:36 PM   #3292
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Huge thumbs up.
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Old Yesterday, 01:35 AM   #3293
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
There is a live broadcast of the Chief Justice of the South Africa and the Constitutional Court. At a conference of African Judiciary. He is urging all judges to fight corruption. That they should be prepared to die fighting corruption. (As some did in Ghana apparently.) That they must be free of corruption in order to fight the scourge.

He is opposing some very powerful and very corrupt politicians led by President Zuma.

Powerful speech. The nation's respect (and mine) for this man has grown by leaps and bounds because of his actions.

They are Christians who are unafraid. Last night I watched a part of Malcolm X. A religious and principled man from the parts I saw.

These are actions which many take as evidence of the power of faith in God.
Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Malcolm X wasn't Christian.
But Jacob Zuma is:
Quote:
In a 2006 interview he stated that “I start from basic Christian principles. Christianity is part of what I am; in a way it was the foundation for all my political beliefs”
Source

Quite apart from this being quite staggeringly off-topic, and presumably also a dodge to avoid having to acknowledge the fact that your earlier points have been comprehensively demolished, is this example of massive corruption by a Christian supposed to bolster your claim that religion makes people more moral?
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Old Yesterday, 02:57 AM   #3294
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Bump for Bethke. Do you know any other person now alive on this planet whom you would consider a true Christian? Please answer simply with yes or no.
Cannot give a simple answer.

First, what is a true Christian?

The term should be if a person has faith in Yeshua the Messiah.

The test that I apply is that of married and the eating of unclean food, combined these two considerations give a clear understanding.
It is the same principal applied with consideration of Gentile believers.

Act 15:19 "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
Act 15:20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.

To have faith in Jesus, means that one follows his teachings—many so-called Christians do not have faith, the simple observation is that they eat food that is labeled as unclean.
The marriage covenant must be considered.

In my sojourns, sadly I have not meet any who qualify. But given the opportunity, there are indications that many will repent and accept the faith as stipulated.

You SEE, marriage in its pure state is not taught, so people are ignorant, and this ignorance is destroying people’s lives, so when the Gospel is proclaimed in the END, there will be much weeping.
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Old Yesterday, 04:48 AM   #3295
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Signs of the End Times - Part Two

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Cannot give a simple answer.

First, what is a true Christian?

The term should be if a person has faith in Yeshua the Messiah.

The test that I apply is that of married and the eating of unclean food, combined these two considerations give a clear understanding.
It is the same principal applied with consideration of Gentile believers.

Act 15:19 "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
Act 15:20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.

To have faith in Jesus, means that one follows his teachings—many so-called Christians do not have faith, the simple observation is that they eat food that is labeled as unclean.
The marriage covenant must be considered.

In my sojourns, sadly I have not meet any who qualify. But given the opportunity, there are indications that many will repent and accept the faith as stipulated.

You SEE, marriage in its pure state is not taught, so people are ignorant, and this ignorance is destroying people’s lives, so when the Gospel is proclaimed in the END, there will be much weeping.


Are you backing off your "keep kosher, follow the old laws" claim now that you're being asked specific questions about the laws you're not following?

By the way, you could have just said, "No, not as far as I know," instead of using a binary question as ANOTHER excuse for a Bible themed word salad.

How someone who clearly hasn't read much of the Bible manages to get so many Bible verses into his regurgitated word salad is perhaps the greatest unsolved mystery about you Paul Bethke.

Last edited by halleyscomet; Yesterday at 05:01 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 05:31 AM   #3296
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Are you backing off your "keep kosher, follow the old laws" claim now that you're being asked specific questions about the laws you're not following?

By the way, you could have just said, "No, not as far as I know," instead of using a binary question as ANOTHER excuse for a Bible themed word salad.

How someone who clearly hasn't read much of the Bible manages to get so many Bible verses into his regurgitated word salad is perhaps the greatest unsolved mystery about you Paul Bethke.
You SEE Comet, it is the Scriptures that give us understanding, not human reasoning.

Every law that is promulgated has a distinct function, that is to inform humanity how to live in order to please the Creator, nothing to do with salad.
1Thess_4:1 Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more.

So, in your limited understanding, you try to be clever, but only show your ignorance of the Scriptures.

So the Torah is the means to instruct people how to live, some laws have application to some people and some laws do not have application to all people.

But sanctified marriage and the eating of unclean food have application to all people.

So as is proclaimed---Act_14:16 In the past, he let all nations go their own way.
Act_17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

So, the world is in the BUT NOW era, so the Gospel is to inform the world what people must repent of.

So you should know what you must repent of in order to please the Creator—in many instances the choices people have made will be the cause of them not being able to repent.
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Old Yesterday, 05:47 AM   #3297
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
You SEE Comet, it is the Scriptures that give us understanding, not human reasoning.



Every law that is promulgated has a distinct function, that is to inform humanity how to live in order to please the Creator, nothing to do with salad.

1Thess_4:1 Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more.



So, in your limited understanding, you try to be clever, but only show your ignorance of the Scriptures.



So the Torah is the means to instruct people how to live, some laws have application to some people and some laws do not have application to all people.



But sanctified marriage and the eating of unclean food have application to all people.



So as is proclaimed---Act_14:16 In the past, he let all nations go their own way.

Act_17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.



So, the world is in the BUT NOW era, so the Gospel is to inform the world what people must repent of.



So you should know what you must repent of in order to please the Creator—in many instances the choices people have made will be the cause of them not being able to repent.


Ahh, I see you've taken my post as another "excuse" for an unrelated, vomited word salad, "sermon."

Your posts are far more interesting when they're actually related to the comment to which you are replying. I know you CAN reply to posts because I've seen you do it. You should do it more often. People actually READ what you write if you're responding, as opposed to skimming another of your partially digested word salads to see if there's a response floating in the bile.
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Old Yesterday, 06:03 AM   #3298
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
You SEE Comet, it is the Scriptures that give us understanding, not human reasoning.
Reasoning allows us to understand the Scriptures, to recognize the ambiguities and contradictions and to determine what the intention of the author is. Without reason Scripture is meaningless.

Quote:
Every law that is promulgated has a distinct function, that is to inform humanity how to live in order to please the Creator, nothing to do with salad.
1Thess_4:1 Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more.
So why don't you follow the law?

You've made it clear you pick and choose which of the laws you follow - you ignore the clothing laws, the requirement for circumcision, the mandatory feasts, the sacrifices, etc. Sure you come up with excuses (there's no temple, etc.), but that's no different then any other criminal.

Quote:
So, in your limited understanding, you try to be clever, but only show your ignorance of the Scriptures.
You, who change the definition of words to suit your personal prejudices, who cannot read the original languages, who version shops for translations cannot claim greater understanding.

Quote:
So the Torah is the means to instruct people how to live, some laws have application to some people and some laws do not have application to all people.

But sanctified marriage and the eating of unclean food have application to all people.
You have admitted that you ignore many of the ones that DO apply to all (circumcision, clothing laws, grooming). Your god will be quite upset with you.

Quote:
So you should know what you must repent of in order to please the Creator—in many instances the choices people have made will be the cause of them not being able to repent.
You've made the choice to only keep the laws you want to keep. Enjoy your isolation from Yahweh the Bloody.
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Old Yesterday, 06:19 AM   #3299
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Cannot give a simple answer.

First, what is a true Christian?

The term should be if a person has faith in Yeshua the Messiah.

The test that I apply is that of married and the eating of unclean food, combined these two considerations give a clear understanding.
It is the same principal applied with consideration of Gentile believers.

Act 15:19 "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
Act 15:20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
Given that Jesus very clearly stated that he is not going to change the laws (Matt 5:17-18), Paul's decision to change the Law with respect to Gentile conversion is in direct contradiction to the teachings of Jesus. You, like your namesake, are picking and choosing what you want to do - ignoring the laws you find to be inconvenient to you.

Quote:
To have faith in Jesus, means that one follows his teachings—many so-called Christians do not have faith, the simple observation is that they eat food that is labeled as unclean.
The marriage covenant must be considered.
If we consider Paul's statement above - if the requirement is simply to abstain from food polluted by idols then my bacon double cheeseburger with the side of popcorn shrimp is fine, as there are no idols to any deity in any of the fast food restaurants I've ever eaten in. I will freely admit that a couple of the Indian restaurants around here have statues of Ganeesh, and a few Chinese restaurants have Buddhas, but any deity that requires me to forgo Vindaloo or Dim Sum is far too cruel to follow.
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Old Yesterday, 06:31 AM   #3300
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Cannot give a simple answer.
Yes, you can.

Quote:
In my sojourns, sadly I have not meet any who qualify.
Let me cut through your obfuscations and clarify. Are you claiming to be the only person you know who is, in your mind, a true Christian?

Again, a yes or no answer is all I need. No irrelevant pontifications or scripture dumps.
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Old Yesterday, 06:35 AM   #3301
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Cannot give a simple answer.

<snip>
Pablo, had you read the question at all, you would know that it is, in fact, simple: Do you, Pablo, know anyone you consider to be a "true christian"?

Yes or no question, hold the scripturedump.
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Old Yesterday, 06:39 AM   #3302
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
You SEE Comet, it is the Scriptures that give us understanding, not human reasoning.
Nonsense. In addition to requiring reasoning to understand the scriptures, which has already been discussed, authors such as Paul explicitly invoke pre-existing modes of reasoning -- syllogisms, if you will -- to express his point. This so-called "human" reasoning existed before the Bible and continues to exist separately from it. Denying its existence and usefulness does not help your case. It only makes you seem afraid of people who are smarter than you.

Quote:
So, in your limited understanding, you try to be clever, but only show your ignorance of the Scriptures.
No, your critics are not ignorant.

Quote:
So the Torah is the means to instruct people how to live, some laws have application to some people and some laws do not have application to all people.
And your attempt to determine which apply to you and which don't is exactly that reasoning you were so adamantly against. It's not a very strong argument that starts about by undermining its own premise.
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Old Yesterday, 06:40 AM   #3303
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
Pablo, had you read the question at all, you would know that it is, in fact, simple: Do you, Pablo, know anyone you consider to be a "true christian"?

Yes or no question, hold the scripturedump.
He certainly did engage in a lot of prevaricating obfuscation to circumlocute giving an incomplex elucidation.
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Old Yesterday, 07:10 AM   #3304
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Cannot give a simple answer.

First, what is a true Christian?

The term should be if a person has faith in Yeshua the Messiah.

The test that I apply is that of married and the eating of unclean food, combined these two considerations give a clear understanding.
It is the same principal applied with consideration of Gentile believers.

Act 15:19 "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
Act 15:20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.

To have faith in Jesus, means that one follows his teachings—many so-called Christians do not have faith, the simple observation is that they eat food that is labeled as unclean.
The marriage covenant must be considered.

In my sojourns, sadly I have not meet any who qualify. But given the opportunity, there are indications that many will repent and accept the faith as stipulated.

You SEE, marriage in its pure state is not taught, so people are ignorant, and this ignorance is destroying people’s lives, so when the Gospel is proclaimed in the END, there will be much weeping.
OK then.

I guess that since your god is far too stupid, far too lazy, and for to incompetent to actually help the people that your god created, therefore your god will kill the people he created.

Your god is nothing but an over-powered horrible piece of crap god!
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Old Yesterday, 08:12 AM   #3305
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
He certainly did engage in a lot of prevaricating obfuscation to circumlocute giving an incomplex elucidation.
Word to yo' mama.
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Old Yesterday, 08:13 AM   #3306
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
Word to yo' mama.
The ladies have always told me I was a cunning linguist.

My mother just complains that she's tired of me proving her wrong about "Bible stuff." That's what happens when a person who gets all their Bible learning from Pat Robertson has their son read the bible cover to cover.

Last edited by halleyscomet; Yesterday at 08:14 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 08:15 AM   #3307
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
The ladies have always told me I was a cunning linguist.
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