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Old 6th October 2018, 07:53 AM   #281
phiwum
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Romney? They were spinning up MC&I for him while he was only the nominee.
Don't know quite who "they" are, nor (honestly) what MC&I means, but I never once regarded Romney as ill-qualified as Trump. Didn't like the man much, to be honest, but never, ever regarded him as unsuited for the office. (I'm from Oklahoma, so the dog on top of the car really didn't enter into my decision!)

Seriously, Trump is different. Not saying that we ought to amend the Constitution to prevent another Trump, but Trump is not like other candidates. I liked McCain prior to his last race for president (where he veered to the right in unfortunate ways). I'm not fundamentally opposed to a Republican. I'd like a balanced Supreme Court, not a lopsided one, and I think that McConnell is a right bastard.

So, no, not special pleading. Trump is a terrible son of a bitch because of his actual features, and how they relate to terrible son of a bitchedness.
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Old 6th October 2018, 07:57 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
On the other hand, it would go a long way to installing the likes of Putin. I prefer the American failure mode to the Russian one.
A softball response, but I can't resist.

What's the difference? Indirection?
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Old 6th October 2018, 08:03 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
Well, you live in the same nation-state as people who do have concerns about illegal immigration. Instead of dehumanizing people with whom you disagree, I suggest trying to see them as people with a different viewpoint so that you can work out some kind of compromise on that issue and other issues via the democratic process. That is, walk the political dialogue back to the centre, instead of having entrenched tribal sides that argue against strawmen.

My grandfather was involved in the Weimar-era street battles in Berlin (socialist side, in case you're wondering). I don't recall him ever describing them as 'productive'. And I see more and more of that stuff in the US.

Here is a video of BLM supporters crashing a pro-Trump event, and actually talking to people there. Turns out the 'other side' is just human and not some cliché villain.
That video was totally worth watching. The conservative side was totally decent in granting the BLM side a platform.
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Old 6th October 2018, 08:09 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
That video was totally worth watching. The conservative side was totally decent in granting the BLM side a platform.
And then they proceeded to vote for more black people to be murdered by cops. But wasn't it a nice video?
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Old 6th October 2018, 08:10 AM   #285
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Question

Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
How can another Trump be ensured?



Just watch Dems and find out
Did you used to be conservative?

Is there really any sense in which our President is conservative?

You thrilled with that? Not just a game, not just us vs. them. Trump is the leader of your nation. Thrilled with that, are you? None of the others in that primary race coulda done better? Personally, I coulda gone with Kasich or Jeb, but you're totally thrilled with this fine specimen?

Last edited by phiwum; 6th October 2018 at 08:10 AM. Reason: Sorry, didn't mean for a stupid emoticon.
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Old 6th October 2018, 08:12 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
America is heading for civil war. This I've been pretty sure of since Trump won.
I've been hearing it since the late 1970s. Didn't believe it then, and don't think that you have any real insight.
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Old 6th October 2018, 08:12 AM   #287
The Great Zaganza
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Trump has no standards or morals.
For some, this was a big plus.
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Old 7th October 2018, 03:28 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
I'd love to see our congress made up of a more representative swath of the American public.
Here's a system, but no one is going to agree with it.

1) The Senate - Move to a a Alternative Vote system instead of FPTP.

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2) The House - Move to proportional system such as STV with each State retaining its total seats, but being required to assign those seats proportional to the voting results.

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I AGREE


3) The Presidential Primaries-

a) Primaries to all be held on the final Saturday of May in the year of the election. Each person can vote for a single candidate.
b) States will determine the party state delegates proportional to the vote for each party's primary candidates
c) Delegates must vote for the candidate they were assigned at the corresponding conference even if they don't agree with that candidate.

4) The Presidential General - Move to popular vote with a AV system.

5) Campaign Financing - Individuals, Corporations, and Organisations may donate to or spend up to $20,000 advertising for or against any candidate during the Primaries, with a total cap of $80,000 in total spending during the primaries. This includes all party primaries. Individuals, Corporations, and Organisations may donate to or spend up to $40,000 advertising for or against any candidate during the General. All advertising must include who paid for the advertising, and who authorized it. No Donations can be made anonymously via Trusts, and any donation via a Trust counts against the individual, corporation, or organisation's total donation of spending.
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Old 7th October 2018, 03:33 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
America is heading for civil war. This I've been pretty sure of since Trump won. Democracy is likely over and soon we will probably have to either kill our neighbors or be killed by them. Some authoritarian dystopia will come out of the other side and it might be left wing or it might be right wing.
I don't think so, the split is very different these days than it was in the times of the Civil War.

Today the States themselves are split, Urban vs Rural. During the Civil War there was a split between how the States themselves wanted things done, that's not how it is today. Even the Reddest states have bright blue Urban areas, and the Blue States are very red in their Rural areas. This means that there is no real way to form an opposing Government as the Confederate States did.
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Old 7th October 2018, 03:43 AM   #290
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Red States want to do things differently than Blue States.
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Old 7th October 2018, 07:22 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Red States want to do things differently than Blue States.
This isn't entirely true, the split is more that rural, and to some extent suburban people, want to do things differently to urban people, and the red states tend to have a greater number of voters in those rural areas compared to their urban ones, while the blue states have more urban voters than rural. This isn't like it was in the Civil War period where the voters were in general agreement in the Southern States and able to form a government of their own. Both Red and Blue States have a lot of voters on the other side, it's just that one side outnumbers the other (and sometimes not even then when gerrymandering is taken into consideration.)

Without 80-90% agreement between the voters to secede to a new Government and oppose the US, all that attempting to so would do is create a civil war inside the state itself. They would need to be focused and in agreement of their direction or any revolution would fail before it started, and there just isn't that sort of agreement between voters in any of the States, regardless of how red or blue they are.
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Last edited by PhantomWolf; 7th October 2018 at 07:25 AM.
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Old 7th October 2018, 07:23 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Here's a system, but no one is going to agree with it.

1) The Senate - Move to a a Alternative Vote system instead of FPTP.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


2) The House - Move to proportional system such as STV with each State retaining its total seats, but being required to assign those seats proportional to the voting results.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


3) The Presidential Primaries-

a) Primaries to all be held on the final Saturday of May in the year of the election. Each person can vote for a single candidate.
b) States will determine the party state delegates proportional to the vote for each party's primary candidates
c) Delegates must vote for the candidate they were assigned at the corresponding conference even if they don't agree with that candidate.

4) The Presidential General - Move to popular vote with a AV system.

5) Campaign Financing - Individuals, Corporations, and Organisations may donate to or spend up to $20,000 advertising for or against any candidate during the Primaries, with a total cap of $80,000 in total spending during the primaries. This includes all party primaries. Individuals, Corporations, and Organisations may donate to or spend up to $40,000 advertising for or against any candidate during the General. All advertising must include who paid for the advertising, and who authorized it. No Donations can be made anonymously via Trusts, and any donation via a Trust counts against the individual, corporation, or organisation's total donation of spending.
Hmmmm, a fair, efficient relatively-simple approach with no way for a single party to introduce bias ( e.g. gerrymandering). Not only will it not be well-received, I suspect it would be attacked, grossly mischaracterized, and demonized to the point that its proponents would receive serious death threats.
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