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Old 3rd November 2018, 02:08 PM   #2561
RoboTimbo
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I understand what you said but did you buy gold?
Did you send me all your money yet? We have to know you're sincere.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 09:25 PM   #2562
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I understand what you said but did you buy gold?
Why would we buy it? Isn't it "free"?
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Old 4th November 2018, 02:00 AM   #2563
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
Did you send me all your money yet? We have to know you're sincere.
You look like your dog.
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Old 4th November 2018, 05:34 AM   #2564
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But did you send me all of your money so we could know you are sincere?
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Old 4th November 2018, 01:26 PM   #2565
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
No money societies don't need judges. They bludgeon you to death if you have something they want and you won't give it to them
Yes but did you buy gold recently.
To make into a bludgeon?


Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Gold is useless. MONEY is more liquid and easier to use.
Well, it would make as good of a blackjack as lead.
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Old 6th November 2018, 03:12 AM   #2566
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Why would we buy it? Isn't it "free"?
Yes but when you'll be in hell to be ****** by a devil what you'll do with your gold
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Old 6th November 2018, 03:15 AM   #2567
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Yes but when you'll be in hell to be ****** by a devil what you'll do with your gold
No such thing as hell or a devil.
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Old 6th November 2018, 05:55 AM   #2568
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Yes but when you'll be in hell to be ****** by a devil what you'll do with your gold
So the hell you've invented is a no-money society?
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Old 6th November 2018, 07:26 AM   #2569
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Yes but when you'll be in hell to be ****** by a devil what you'll do with your gold
If my personal devil ******* me looks anything like this, I can't wait.

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Old 6th November 2018, 11:52 PM   #2570
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Yes but when you'll be in hell to be ****** by a devil what you'll do with your gold
I said I didn't want Gold. But since you're on Gold, what do you think about Jesus's parable about the man with 5 bags of Gold being rewarded because he turned the 5 bags into 10? He was rewarded handsomely and the person who didn't make a "profit" was sent to where there was "weeping and knashing of teeth".

I guess I need to make profits in order to prosper.
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Old 7th November 2018, 02:52 AM   #2571
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
I said I didn't want Gold. But since you're on Gold, what do you think about Jesus's parable about the man with 5 bags of Gold being rewarded because he turned the 5 bags into 10? He was rewarded handsomely and the person who didn't make a "profit" was sent to where there was "weeping and knashing of teeth".

I guess I need to make profits in order to prosper.
I understand what you said but when the devil will **** you it'll be the only pleasure you'll get in hell. Now you are mad because your Trump lost his election.
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Old 7th November 2018, 04:11 AM   #2572
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I understand what you said but when the devil will **** you it'll be the only pleasure you'll get in hell. Now you are mad because your Trump lost his election.
You can't use gold in your make-believe hell so it must be a no-money place?

Why are you afraid to answer?
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Old 7th November 2018, 10:03 AM   #2573
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I understand what you said but when the devil will **** you it'll be the only pleasure you'll get in hell. Now you are mad because your Trump lost his election.
Trump wasn't in this election. He's up for re-election in 2020.

Based on the parable of Jesus, it was the man who didn't make a profit that winded up in hell where there is weeping and knashing of teeth. So it would seem your assumptions are wrong.
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Old 7th November 2018, 02:31 PM   #2574
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Trump wasn't in this election. He's up for re-election in 2020.

Based on the parable of Jesus, it was the man who didn't make a profit that winded up in hell where there is weeping and knashing of teeth. So it would seem your assumptions are wrong.
He went to hell because he didn't share the money, he hid it. Jesus Christ clearly demonstrated that it is impossible for rich to go to heaven in the story of the camel, the rich fool, and the rich and Lazarre
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Old 7th November 2018, 02:42 PM   #2575
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I understand what you said but when the devil will **** you it'll be the only pleasure you'll get in hell.
This is crazy talk.

Quote:
Now you are mad because your Trump lost his election.
But not as crazy as this.
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Old 7th November 2018, 03:16 PM   #2576
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Jesus Christ clearly demonstrated that it is impossible for rich to go to heaven in the story of the camel, the rich fool, and the rich and Lazarre
These parables have all been reinterpreted by wealthy-evangelists to assure their salvation.
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Old 7th November 2018, 03:29 PM   #2577
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
He went to hell because he didn't share the money, he hid it. Jesus Christ clearly demonstrated that it is impossible for rich to go to heaven in the story of the camel, the rich fool, and the rich and Lazarre
But you've said that hell is a no-money place so isn't it desireable to go there?
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Old 7th November 2018, 03:54 PM   #2578
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
He went to hell because he didn't share the money, he hid it. Jesus Christ clearly demonstrated that it is impossible for rich to go to heaven in the story of the camel, the rich fool, and the rich and Lazarre
Based on the way the story read, the men who doubled up their original investments were rewarded and the man who buried his gold and made no money/profit went to where there was weeping and knashing of teeth.

The Rich man didn't wind up in hell because he was rich. He wound up there because he wasn't able to give up his riches to follow Jesus.

The Rich man in the story of Lazarus didn't go to hell because he was rich.

So have you given up your money Gaetan?
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Old 7th November 2018, 06:51 PM   #2579
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When I see Gaetan giving out anything related to finances and/or to the economy, I remember this:

Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
How are you paying for your internet connection?
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I don't know.
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Old 7th November 2018, 07:05 PM   #2580
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
You can't use gold in your make-believe hell so it must be a no-money place?

Why are you afraid to answer?
Do you really think that devils give something free, no money doesn't mean that there is no substitute.
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Old 7th November 2018, 10:04 PM   #2581
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Do you really think that devils give something free, no money doesn't mean that there is no substitute.
What we've been telling you for years. You finally figured it out.
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Old 8th November 2018, 02:56 AM   #2582
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Based on the way the story read, the men who doubled up their original investments were rewarded and the man who buried his gold and made no money/profit went to where there was weeping and knashing of teeth.

The Rich man didn't wind up in hell because he was rich. He wound up there because he wasn't able to give up his riches to follow Jesus.

The Rich man in the story of Lazarus didn't go to hell because he was rich.

So have you given up your money Gaetan?
These paroles refer to any rich, not a particular rich
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Old 8th November 2018, 10:53 AM   #2583
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
These paroles refer to any rich, not a particular rich
Being rich doesn't condemn anyone to hell. It's not being able to prioritize that can lead to destruction. If the rich man had been kind to Lazarus and helped him, his fate would have been different.
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Old 8th November 2018, 02:18 PM   #2584
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Being rich doesn't condemn anyone to hell. It's not being able to prioritize that can lead to destruction. If the rich man had been kind to Lazarus and helped him, his fate would have been different.
If they are rich it is because they didn't share with poor. Lazarre is one who was in difficulty and needed help but he is not the only one rich refuse to see.
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Old 8th November 2018, 03:05 PM   #2585
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But you said that no-money societies are good and that hell is a no-money society. Don't you want to go to hell?
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Old 8th November 2018, 03:07 PM   #2586
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
If they are rich it is because they didn't share with poor. Lazarre is one who was in difficulty and needed help but he is not the only one rich refuse to see.
I don't believe anyone has given more to charity than Bill Gates.

Quote:
Billionaire businessman Bill Gates just made good on his reputation as a one of the most generous philanthropists.

Gates, the world’s richest man, donated $4.6 billion worth of shares in Microsoft Corp in June — making this his largest donation in 17 years. Gates donated 64 million shares earlier this summer, according to a Securities & Exchange Commission filing released Monday and first shared by Bloomberg.
Quote:
Gates’ recent donation brings his total number of gifts to charitable donations to $50 billion, according to CNBC. His last gift of this size came in 2000 when he gave away $5.1 billion worth of Microsoft shares in 2000. Just a year prior, he gave away $16 billion worth in shares.
http://time.com/money/4901017/bill-g...n-4-6-billion/
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Old 8th November 2018, 03:47 PM   #2587
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
I don't believe anyone has given more to charity than Bill Gates.]
Some rich gives to charity to save income tax. Anyway this is not enough, he should give everything he has to poor according to Jesus, he is still one of the richest man on the planet.
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Old 8th November 2018, 04:04 PM   #2588
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Some rich gives to charity to save income tax. Anyway this is not enough, he should give everything he has to poor according to Jesus, he is still one of the richest man on the planet.
It is far better than he gives regularly. If he gave it all, it would disappear along with his ability to make more money, which allows him to give even more as he makes more.
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Old 8th November 2018, 04:05 PM   #2589
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Some rich gives to charity to save income tax. Anyway this is not enough, he should give everything he has to poor according to Jesus, he is still one of the richest man on the planet.
How much have you donated to charity?
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Old 8th November 2018, 04:06 PM   #2590
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So you'd prefer the poor get rich and the rich get poor?

Brilliant.
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Old 8th November 2018, 04:15 PM   #2591
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
So you'd prefer the poor get rich and the rich get poor?

Brilliant.
Actually, in Gaetan's world, everyone would be poor. Nobody would have money.

With no money, for profit companies such as supermarkets and restaurants would close up and we'd be hunting and gathering to scratch out our existence.
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Old 8th November 2018, 04:49 PM   #2592
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Yep, I know that, and even Bill's bucks wouldn't go very far, a £ each maybe, but I'm not sure Gaetan gets anything. Intellectually I mean, not financially.
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Old 9th November 2018, 08:25 AM   #2593
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Gaetan, have you ever bought a lottery ticket?
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Old 10th November 2018, 10:02 AM   #2594
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
If they are rich it is because they didn't share with poor.
Share implies that someone has the rights to anothers property. No, the rich are rich because, on the whole they have done something to earn that wealth. Not counting those born into it. Bill Gates, as mentioned, earned his wealth by creating something. He did not get it because other people shared their wealth with him and then he cheated others out of the deal.

This also ignores the fact there are more poor than rich and even if you divided up that wealth equally, everyone would be poor. Gates has roughly 96 billion dollars. There are about 3 billion people below poverty. That works out to 33 bucks a person. Not only would this not make much of a difference to anyone, but the idea that he managed to bilk 33 bucks from people who don't have it to amass his fortune is absolutely insane.
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Old 12th November 2018, 11:14 AM   #2595
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
This also ignores the fact there are more poor than rich and even if you divided up that wealth equally, everyone would be poor. Gates has roughly 96 billion dollars. There are about 3 billion people below poverty. That works out to 33 bucks a person.
Wow, what a naive and dishonest argument!

Poverty threshold
Quote:
The poverty threshold, poverty limit or poverty line is the minimum level of income deemed adequate in a particular country... In October 2015, the World Bank updated the international poverty line to $1.90 a day... At present the percentage of the global population living under extreme poverty is likely to fall below 10% according to the World Bank projections released in 2015.
So the wealth of one rich person could be enough to raise 3 billion people above the poverty line for 17 days! And that's naively assuming they would otherwise be receiving zero income.

But are there really about 3 billion people 'below poverty'? It depends on how you define 'poverty'.

Absolute poverty
Quote:
According to a UN declaration that resulted from the World Summit on Social Development in Copenhagen in 1995, absolute poverty is "a condition characterised by severe deprivation of basic human needs, including food, safe drinking water, sanitation facilities, health, shelter, education, and information. It depends not only on income, but also on access to services
According to the World Population Clock there are 7.6 billion people in the World today, which implies that about 40% are 'below poverty'. But according to the World Bank the real figure is less than 10%.

And since Bill Gates is not the only rich person in the World, we should be comparing the incomes of all rich vs poor, not just the wealth of one man vs the entire World.

In the US,
Quote:
One half, 49.98%, of all income in the US was earned by households with an income over $100,000, the top twenty percent. Over one quarter, 28.5%, of all income was earned by the top 8%, those households earning more than $150,000 a year. The top 3.65%, with incomes over $200,000, earned 17.5%. Households with annual incomes from $50,000 to $75,000, 18.2% of households, earned 16.5% of all income. Households with annual incomes from $50,000 to $94,000, 28.12% of households, earned 28.8% of all income. The bottom 10.3% earned 1.06% of all income.
Could the top 20% pull the bottom 10% out of poverty by giving up a just small fraction of their income? You do the math...


But perhaps by 'below poverty' you meant...

Relative poverty
Quote:
Relative poverty means low income relative to others in a country; for example, below 60% of the median income of people in that country. It is the "most useful measure for ascertaining poverty rates in wealthy developed nations". Relative poverty measure is used by the United Nations Development Program (UNDP), the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF), the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and Canadian poverty researchers. In the European Union, the "relative poverty measure is the most prominent and most–quoted of the EU social inclusion indicators."
Using this definition your argument is completely blown out of the water - because if everyone receives the same income then by definition they cannot be poor!
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Old 12th November 2018, 06:17 PM   #2596
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Wow, what a naive and dishonest argument!

Poverty thresholdSo the wealth of one rich person could be enough to raise 3 billion people above the poverty line for 17 days! And that's naively assuming they would otherwise be receiving zero income.

But are there really about 3 billion people 'below poverty'? It depends on how you define 'poverty'.

Absolute poverty
According to the World Population Clock there are 7.6 billion people in the World today, which implies that about 40% are 'below poverty'. But according to the World Bank the real figure is less than 10%.

And since Bill Gates is not the only rich person in the World, we should be comparing the incomes of all rich vs poor, not just the wealth of one man vs the entire World.

In the US,Could the top 20% pull the bottom 10% out of poverty by giving up a just small fraction of their income? You do the math...


But perhaps by 'below poverty' you meant...

Relative povertyUsing this definition your argument is completely blown out of the water - because if everyone receives the same income then by definition they cannot be poor!
I googled and found this site:

https://www.dosomething.org/us/facts...global-poverty

And then rounded to keep the math simple because I'm dealing with Gaetan. So if you want to complain that it was naive or simple, please remember my target audience.

Yes, if everyone had exactly the same amount of money, nobody would be poor. Nor would anyone be rich. Keep in mind the statement was that the rich essentially stole the money from the poor, which is patently untrue since the poor didn't have any money to take.
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Old 13th November 2018, 02:21 AM   #2597
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Yes, if everyone had exactly the same amount of money, nobody would be poor. Nor would anyone be rich. Keep in mind the statement was that the rich essentially stole the money from the poor, which is patently untrue since the poor didn't have any money to take.
that's like saying that when the loot was to be divided, the guy with the gun didn't steal from the others since they hadn't split the money yet.

In probably every business, the contribution of workers to the bottom line and their pay are pretty uncorrelated; this is due in part to the difficulty in assessing their effect of total productivity.
But much more important is the negotiating power of a worker of a specific job: some will get paid much more for the same amount of contribution than others, simply because they are harder to replace.
This amounts to "stealing" from those with less safe jobs, but since it is a Free Market-blessed kind of stealing, it is somehow ok.
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Old 13th November 2018, 09:02 AM   #2598
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
that's like saying that when the loot was to be divided, the guy with the gun didn't steal from the others since they hadn't split the money yet.

In probably every business, the contribution of workers to the bottom line and their pay are pretty uncorrelated; this is due in part to the difficulty in assessing their effect of total productivity.
But much more important is the negotiating power of a worker of a specific job: some will get paid much more for the same amount of contribution than others, simply because they are harder to replace.
This amounts to "stealing" from those with less safe jobs, but since it is a Free Market-blessed kind of stealing, it is somehow ok.
A worker with specialized skills is more difficult to replace and contributes more to the bottom line than an unskilled-replaceable worker. A journeyman electrician is worth more to a company than a fresh-apprentice. How is that not reasonable?
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Old 13th November 2018, 09:40 AM   #2599
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Originally Posted by Mr Salk View Post
A worker with specialized skills is more difficult to replace and contributes more to the bottom line than an unskilled-replaceable worker. A journeyman electrician is worth more to a company than a fresh-apprentice. How is that not reasonable?
You do see how they are not actually being paid for their work, right? They are being paid for their rarity.
As long as we keep the two concepts separate (salary due to work and salary due to indispensability), we might still have a fair system, provided we allow unskilled workers to become skilled and indispensable.

But there is a third level: managers.
They are neither paid for the amount of work they do, nor their rarity (they are easy to replace). They are paid as Trophies for the company, a kind of advertisement to the Stock Market: "see here, we pay our CEO more than you do, because ours does more than yours".

So yes, the system is very unreasonable, since you won't find a CEO who does more work than plenty of people with two jobs and no access to childcare for their kids.
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Old 13th November 2018, 10:03 AM   #2600
Joecool
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
I googled and found this site:

https://www.dosomething.org/us/facts...global-poverty

And then rounded to keep the math simple because I'm dealing with Gaetan. So if you want to complain that it was naive or simple, please remember my target audience.

Yes, if everyone had exactly the same amount of money, nobody would be poor. Nor would anyone be rich. Keep in mind the statement was that the rich essentially stole the money from the poor, which is patently untrue since the poor didn't have any money to take.
Even if all the "rich people" or even the top 20% of the people who earn the most money were to give up some to allow some form of equality, I believe that most of the people who were considered poverty will continue to remain in poverty because they do not have the will power or ability to maintain what they are given.

I will use lottery winners as an example. Many of them wind up broke after a number of years, even after winning a mind boggling amount of money. And that's because they don't know how to manage their money/lifestyle properly.

Even if Gaetan achieved his plan to eliminate money, then certain people eventually would become "rich" by accumulating some valuable commodity such as cattle or other livestock or a clean water supply.
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