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Tags Kentucky incidents , school shootings , shooting incidents

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Old 20th February 2018, 02:04 PM   #161
luchog
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
As well as the point that their fears of a standing army has been at the least unwarranted in the case of the US, and the weapons being used are not exactly those that we would be using in an insurgency campaign.

Given one of the primary fears of the Founding Fathers with regards to a standing army is a tendency toward foreign adventurism, I'd say that at least some of their fears have been fairly well founded. As for its use as a tool of repression on American soil, well, I'd point out the Kent State shooting for one example. The Army National Guard has repeated been called out to help repress civil rights protests since the movement began.
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Old 20th February 2018, 02:24 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Given one of the primary fears of the Founding Fathers with regards to a standing army is a tendency toward foreign adventurism, I'd say that at least some of their fears have been fairly well founded. As for its use as a tool of repression on American soil, well, I'd point out the Kent State shooting for one example. The Army National Guard has repeated been called out to help repress civil rights protests since the movement began.
And the federal troops have often been used against those national guards.
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Old 20th February 2018, 03:27 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And the federal troops have often been used against those national guards.
Where, when? LBJ used federal powers to call up the Alabama National Guard if that's what you're thinking of. But that's not the same as "used against".
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Old 20th February 2018, 04:00 PM   #164
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National Guard are a Militia.
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Old 20th February 2018, 04:47 PM   #165
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Congress Focuses on Leftover Gun Bill After Florida Shooting

Quote:
Passing the Fix NICS Act shouldn’t be hard. No gun or gun accessory is being banned. No one who is allowed to purchase a gun under current law would be blocked from purchasing a gun. The law simply tries to ensure that reportable information should be reported into a database. It should have passed as a standalone bill by voice vote in both chambers on a single afternoon several months ago. But in Congress, when a piece of modest and near-universally accepted legislation on a hot topic is put forward, it’s never just passed. It becomes a bargaining chip.
This one even has the support of the NRA - but even that is not enough. They have to add a bunch of crap to further reduce regulations on conceal carry permits. They'll probably want to add a bunch of crap to arm teachers, to force states, counties and cities to allow armed teachers. They'll add as much crap as they can to allow ever more guns, everywhere so they can make the Dems look bad.

This is a good bill. It will never pass.
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Old 20th February 2018, 05:49 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Congress Focuses on Leftover Gun Bill After Florida Shooting



This one even has the support of the NRA - but even that is not enough. They have to add a bunch of crap to further reduce regulations on conceal carry permits. They'll probably want to add a bunch of crap to arm teachers, to force states, counties and cities to allow armed teachers. They'll add as much crap as they can to allow ever more guns, everywhere so they can make the Dems look bad.

This is a good bill. It will never pass.
I remember hearing about this and saying it seemed like a good idea at the time. John Cornyn's thing wasn't it? I guess I shouldn't be surprised that they'd find a way to screw up even something that simple.
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Old 20th February 2018, 06:12 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Given one of the primary fears of the Founding Fathers with regards to a standing army is a tendency toward foreign adventurism, I'd say that at least some of their fears have been fairly well founded. As for its use as a tool of repression on American soil, well, I'd point out the Kent State shooting for one example. The Army National Guard has repeated been called out to help repress civil rights protests since the movement began.
Sorry, I'm probably close to being as liberal as you, but this is wrong. The National Guard is as close to being the militia envisioned by the second amendment as you can get these days. The regular army would have shown more professionalism.
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Old 20th February 2018, 06:14 PM   #168
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For purposes of interpreting the second amendment, the militia clause is irrelevant.
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Old 20th February 2018, 06:26 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
For purposes of interpreting the second amendment, the militia clause is irrelevant.
Then why did the FF put it in there, right at the front? To use up more ink and vellum?
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Old 20th February 2018, 06:44 PM   #170
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Who said this and when? Trump 2018 or Obama 2013?
Quote:
In one week I will holding a number of discussions with students, local leaders and law enforcement to develop concrete steps we can take to secure our schools, safeguard our students and protect our communities. School safety is a top priority of my administration....This includes implementing common sense security measures and addressing mental health issues.


In other news Trump is proposing a rather meaningless gesture;

He signed a memorandum directing the Attorney General to propose regulations to ban all devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns. I think Trump is getting more bad advice. Issues about the AR-15 have been keeping the ATF busy for a long time. Here is one link; https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/at...dix-b/download

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/20/polit...cks/index.html

Ranb
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Old 20th February 2018, 11:23 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
As well as the point that their fears of a standing army has been at the least unwarranted in the case of the US, and the weapons being used are not exactly those that we would be using in an insurgency campaign.
This just made me think that there must be enough people with guns in this country to take over many nations of the world if people just decided to hop on planes and go for it.
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Old 21st February 2018, 03:58 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Where, when? LBJ used federal powers to call up the Alabama National Guard if that's what you're thinking of. But that's not the same as "used against".
Kennedy and the 82nd airborne.
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Old 21st February 2018, 04:01 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Then why did the FF put it in there, right at the front? To use up more ink and vellum?
It is part of the pointless things in the constitution, like talk of emoluments and the first amendment.
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Old 21st February 2018, 04:02 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
This just made me think that there must be enough people with guns in this country to take over many nations of the world if people just decided to hop on planes and go for it.
That is pretty much how we conquered Hawaii.
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Old 21st February 2018, 08:26 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Then why did the FF put it in there, right at the front? To use up more ink and vellum?

It's what is known as a "prefatory clause"' a preface to the actual text of the amendment; which is a "justification clause", a short explanation of the need for the existence of the amendment.
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Old 21st February 2018, 11:09 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Kennedy and the 82nd airborne.
I can't find anywhere that suggests the 82nd Airborne actually fought the Alabama National Guard. In fact Kennedy also federalized their National Guard with Executive Order 11111.
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Old 21st February 2018, 11:21 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Are you saying the people who drafted it had no idea that firearms would improve?

I feel it is a pretty solid statement to say the people who wrote it were at least of average intellect and as such would understand that just like everything else guns would continue to improve. And as such, the 2nd amendment was written with the concept of modern firearms in mind.
I think that it's more likely that the people that wrote the constitution expected the amendments to get amended as circumstances changed.

I find it exceedingly hard to believe that the drafters had any concept of an AK-47 back when it was written for example. It's notoriously hard to predict the future.

Lets fast forward 500 years. Will the 2nd amendment still be a part of the US constitution? (Will there still be a USA?) If there is, what kind of advanced high tech weaponry will there be, and how much more stupid would a person 500 years from now sound trotting out the argument that the drafters of the 2nd amendment ought to have forseen "todays" weapons when writing it?
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Old 21st February 2018, 11:42 AM   #178
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Lots of rallies are being planned for March 24: March for our Lives. That's the event in Denver, but there will be others nationwide.

Hopefully it really will be different this time.
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Old 21st February 2018, 11:49 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
This just made me think that there must be enough people with guns in this country to take over many nations of the world if people just decided to hop on planes and go for it.
I guess so, if they were well regulated enough to get on planes to the same place at the same time.
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Old 21st February 2018, 11:50 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
I can't find anywhere that suggests the 82nd Airborne actually fought the Alabama National Guard. In fact Kennedy also federalized their National Guard with Executive Order 11111.
Don’t know about the situation with Kennedy but in the case of the Little Rock Nine the Governor of Arkansas did use the local National Guard to block the school integration and Eisenhower sent in the 101st airborne to take over. I don’t think there was any actual fighting between the guard and the 101st but at some point he did put the local guard units under the command of the 101st, taking it out of the hands of the governor.
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Old 21st February 2018, 12:49 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
This just made me think that there must be enough people with guns in this country to take over many nations of the world if people just decided to hop on planes and go for it.
No, a mob with guns aren't an army.
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Old 21st February 2018, 02:12 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
That is pretty much how we conquered Hawaii.
And pretty much America as well. Before it was called that.
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Old 28th February 2018, 03:57 AM   #183
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https://www.dailydot.com/irl/transge...hooting-media/

Well now we know a kind of terrorist attack no one cares about.
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Old 28th February 2018, 04:20 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
https://www.dailydot.com/irl/transge...hooting-media/

Well now we know a kind of terrorist attack no one cares about.
Playing devil's advocate,would a shooting with only two injured make the news whoever the victims or intended victims were? Unless someone famous was involved of course.
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Old 28th February 2018, 04:33 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Playing devil's advocate,would a shooting with only two injured make the news whoever the victims or intended victims were? Unless someone famous was involved of course.
We get national news on bombings that injure no one. The fact it is a terrorist attack would seem to often be enough.
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Old 28th February 2018, 05:04 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
No, a mob with guns aren't an army.
They can be, just not a very good one.
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Old 28th February 2018, 01:06 PM   #187
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On the Arming Teachers front. Here we have a teacher barricading himself in a classroom and firing at students outside.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/b...school/464838/

We clearly need to drop the age for concealed carry to no more than 10. Only when the students are also armed will this be effective.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 08:26 AM   #188
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2 shot at Central Michigan University, suspect at large: Police

Originally Posted by ABC News
Two people were shot at Central Michigan University in Mount Pleasant this morning, according to Michigan State Police.

The suspect, considered armed and dangerous, is at large, Mount Pleasant officials said...
Other articles say the shooter is a black male. Very early reporting so consider everything as unconfirmed.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/shots-repor...ry?id=53463323
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Old 2nd March 2018, 08:57 AM   #189
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Some now reporting as two shot dead. Not confirmed.

Seems unlikely to be a mass or spree shooter as there are no reports of ongoing shooting.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 10:50 AM   #190
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Two dead, nobody else shot or injured. Appears that 19 year old James Eric Davis Jr. killed his parents on the 4th floor of a dorm. It's a domestic thing. Last night the police placed him in a hospital for a drug overdose and he was released this morning. He is on the run right now. He ran down some railroad tracks and clothing was dropped along the way. He either changed clothes or he is nearly naked now. Armed and dangerous.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 08:04 PM   #191
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It wasn't a mass shooting, but here's an update...

Originally Posted by The Detroit News
...CMU police had contact with Davis (the shooter) on Thursday night (last night), Klaus said, explaining officers responded to complaints of a “difficult student” in the residence hall. Davis was later taken to a University of Michigan Health Systems facility for a drug-related issue, Klaus said, correcting his earlier assertion that suspect had been at McLaren Hospital.

“Whether there was a mental health component that was in conjunction with that, we don’t know,” said Klaus, telling reporters there are “pieces of the puzzle” police are still trying to put together as they investigate the suspected shooter and his motive.

He said authorities are looking at surveillance video feeds. While the university does not have metal detectors, the campus is considered a gun-free zone...
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...mpus/388378002
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Old 3rd March 2018, 08:13 AM   #192
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Caught and arrested...

Originally Posted by The Detroit News
A release from CMU issued at 12:50 a.m. Saturday said Davis was seen and reported by a person on a train passing through the north end of campus shortly after midnight. The witness reported the sighting to police. They responded and arrested Davis without incident...
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...mpus/388378002
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Old 3rd March 2018, 02:17 PM   #193
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He did use his father's gun.
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Old 3rd March 2018, 03:53 PM   #194
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See in Europe even 2 people shot dead would be a pretty big deal. Not sure if we would call it a mass shooting but it would be shocking. In the USA it is just Friday.
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Old 3rd March 2018, 04:18 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
See in Europe even 2 people shot dead would be a pretty big deal. Not sure if we would call it a mass shooting but it would be shocking. In the USA it is just Friday.
It's okay they were his parents, it was just a "domestic thing". Nothing to see here.
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Old 3rd March 2018, 04:43 PM   #196
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Apparently he got the gun from his dad's car and went into his dorm and shot them both. It's on security video.

Dad is a cop and his gun is in his car. Both parents are sitting in the dorm and ready for all three to go home for spring break. So then go get that gun and come into the room and kill them.
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Old 3rd March 2018, 04:47 PM   #197
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A domestic thing, where a police officer (a "good guy") and his wife were shot with his own gun. Apparently, the gun was in the dad's car, where the son likely knew of it and retrieved it to do the deed.

Just another example of where having a gun makes one more likely to die by gunfire. Suppose there had been other siblings or relatives involved; could have then been a mass shooting.
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Old 7th March 2018, 04:09 PM   #198
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Breaking:
1 student dead, 1 in critical condition after shooting at Huffman High School in Birmingham Alabama

"at this time they believe the shooting was accidental."
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Old 7th March 2018, 05:10 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Breaking:
1 student dead, 1 in critical condition after shooting at Huffman High School in Birmingham Alabama

"at this time they believe the shooting was accidental."
There are unconfirmed reports about what happened. Boy (17 yo) brought a gun to school and was showing it to girls. It went off and a 17 yo girl was killed. He goes to put the gun back in his pants and it goes off again shooting himself. Unconfirmed.
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Old 7th March 2018, 06:09 PM   #200
Trebuchet
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
There are unconfirmed reports about what happened. Boy (17 yo) brought a gun to school and was showing it to girls. It went off and a 17 yo girl was killed. He goes to put the gun back in his pants and it goes off again shooting himself. Unconfirmed.
May I offer my hopes as to where it shot him?
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