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Old 8th November 2018, 12:33 PM   #3241
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Originally Posted by Mid View Post
yep under ireland, but the box has a dotted line to just off Normandy where there's a more to scale version of the isles just where they should be
Er, yeah. That was my point.

Unless I'd missed some sarcasm or humour. Which happens. Far too often.
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Old 8th November 2018, 12:46 PM   #3242
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Er, yeah. That was my point.

Unless I'd missed some sarcasm or humour. Which happens. Far too often.
yeah sorry I was just confused by ceptimus saying they were in the wrong place when they're not. Never mind just me being confused which also happens far too often
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Old 8th November 2018, 12:50 PM   #3243
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Originally Posted by Mid View Post
yeah sorry I was just confused by ceptimus saying they were in the wrong place when they're not. Never mind just me being confused which also happens far too often
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Old 8th November 2018, 12:51 PM   #3244
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So someone who is part of the leave vote doesn't know where the channel isles are then?
It doesn't actually surprise me.
Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
At least they know where France is.
Yeah, Raab just made me put my head in my hands.

Last edited by p0lka; 8th November 2018 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 8th November 2018, 01:53 PM   #3245
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Given support and succour to the EU side, so allowing them to negotiate with greater intransigence in their efforts to deny Brexit.
As a matter of fact nobody denies Brexit. Right now it is becoming a fact on 30 March 2019, i.e. in less than 150 days if I am not mistaken.

With a hard border between the Republic of Ireland and North Ireland in the absence of any agreement.
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Old 8th November 2018, 01:53 PM   #3246
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
No, the vote was to leave the EU. The questions of freedom and damage were not on the ballot paper.

Dave

And Leave explicitly promised that we would retain trading terms with the EU as good as or better than those we currently have, but Ceptimus is remarkably sanguine about the fact they outright lied about the future of the British economy...
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Old 8th November 2018, 01:57 PM   #3247
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
I'll only blame them if and when they fail to deliver the Brexit they promised. I don't blame the EU - they can and should do what they think is best for the EU. I will blame the UK government if they fail to do what they promised - that is deliver a Brexit that disentangles us completely from EU rule.
Did the UK Government really promise that? Or was it the likes as Farage who have never been in a UK Government but made promises they knew nobody could keep?
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Old 8th November 2018, 02:35 PM   #3248
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The idiots that made that map can't even get the channel islands in the right place.
They are in the right place.

Is even a simplified map too much for you?
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Old 8th November 2018, 02:47 PM   #3249
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The idiots that made that map can't even get the channel islands in the right place.
Let me help you out...

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Old 8th November 2018, 03:15 PM   #3250
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
So someone who is part of the leave vote doesn't know where the channel isles are then?
It doesn't actually surprise me.
This.
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Old 8th November 2018, 05:02 PM   #3251
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Of course not. There's 50 years of integration there.

We're now dealing with ideologues. They don't respond to reason. They are prepared for everyone else to pay any price at all just so that the Germans et al can't tell us how clean our beaches should be.

Quite honestly, I haven't found a single pro brexit individual who is't a cock juggling thunder**** with an IQ you have to dig for. I keep looking.



(Edit - inadvertently beat the auto censor - oops)
Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Childish insults are not critical thinking. And they're childish.

You're mistaken.

...

...

That insult was quite adult.

"Brexiteers are all poopyheads!" Now that would be a childish insult.

Still true, but childish.
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:08 PM   #3252
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I assume the Brian Cox twitter stuff is in response to this tweet and the tweet embedded in it?

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
To abide by the result of it, because clearly the majority would be happy with the most chaotic and economically harmful possible Brexit, given that that's clearly the kind we're most likely to get. And then to point out that the food shortages, job losses, economic downturns, falls in the quality of life and the resurgence of the IRA aren't our fault, because we honestly did all we could to prevent them.
For the near future I don't see the IRA showing up any time soon. They are more likely to achieve their goals by sitting back and letting the chaos of Brexit annoy the Northern Irish enough to border poll their way back into the EU.

Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The backstop applies if the EU decides that it won't allow the other solutions to work. That's the problem - it allows the EU the option to continue to control the UK even after the UK has left.
Yeah, those lousy continentals should know that the UK is supposed to be controlling the EU even after they leave.

Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The remainers don't need a leave plan - just a plan of how they will accept losing again, if that happens. It's their refusal to accept that they already lost that's got us in the current mess. I hope they won't make the same mistake if they get the re-referendum they're scheming for.
I assume the remainers will just do what the leavers did. Keep on complaining about everything going on until they get their way, the UK rejoins the EU and then everyone will be unhappy because there's no way in hell they're going to get those sweet deals again.

Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
And Leave explicitly promised that we would retain trading terms with the EU as good as or better than those we currently have, but Ceptimus is remarkably sanguine about the fact they outright lied about the future of the British economy...
Tbh they're going to claim success based solely on the referendum question. They never asked about leaving on condition of getting an equal or better trade deal, they just asked to leave.
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:21 PM   #3253
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
There's certainly plenty of evidence for it. Exhibit A, the minister in charge of Brexit negotiations Dominic Raab, has only just realised that the port of Calais is important for British imports/exports. Something that even a GCSE passing grade in geography would have told him.
Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha.

Oh my. I can laugh. You poor ******* have to live with this.
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Old 9th November 2018, 01:52 AM   #3254
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
I'll only blame them if and when they fail to deliver the Brexit they promised.
They didn't promise a Brexit.
They promised lots of different sorts of Brexits. Never mind that most of the people voting Leave were voting for whatever breed of Brexit that lived in their heads.
That's sort of the whole point.


Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
And back around we come.
Indeed.
At least we now know that Raab isn't the only clueless Leaver when it comes to geography.
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Old 9th November 2018, 01:58 AM   #3255
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
There's certainly plenty of evidence for it. Exhibit A, the minister in charge of Brexit negotiations Dominic Raab, has only just realised that the port of Calais is important for British imports/exports. Something that even a GCSE passing grade in geography would have told him.
It's worth watching the video just to serious how earnest Raab is, as if this is an enormous revelation that nobody could have foreseen.
"The accident wasn't my fault as the tree jumped out in front of my car."
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Old 9th November 2018, 02:50 AM   #3256
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
What would you call it? There's no doubt they support the EU side rather than their own country in the negotiations.
I don't support any side in the negotiations since i have no idea what the UK team is actually trying to negotiate...and clearly nor do they. The EU can only react to what is put in front of them and an incoherent disjointed mess of nothingness is so far what they have been given. So far they have reacted in the only way that they can and the idea that they would simply have folded had remainers been more staunch is laughable and delusional.
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Old 9th November 2018, 02:52 AM   #3257
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The good deal is that we'll be free of EU rule. No one expects better economic trading with the EU. A price worth paying to be out of the corrupt EU, and the economic hit will be compensated by better trading with countries outside the EU.
Why would a non-EU country give us better terms that those they would offer the EU? Can you give me a single reason?

For example are South Korea going to offer us a better FTA than the one they already have with the EU?
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Old 9th November 2018, 02:57 AM   #3258
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
It's worth watching the video just to serious how earnest Raab is, as if this is an enormous revelation that nobody could have foreseen.
"The accident wasn't my fault as the tree jumped out in front of my car."
An ex-professor of mine once complained that he had a car accident that was caused by the fact that 'the light is ALWAYS on green, why was it different today?'

I believe even he wasn't stupid enough to vote to Leave the EU though.
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Old 9th November 2018, 02:59 AM   #3259
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
What would you call it?
Having a different opinion to yours. If leaving the EU is all about freedom, I'm struggling to see how not being allowed to have a different opinion to yours makes me more free.

Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
There's no doubt they support the EU side rather than their own country in the negotiations.
Do you have anything other than fantasy to back that up? The EU is aware that not all the population of the UK wants to leave; other than merely existing and holding an opinion, which I rather think we have a right to do in any reasonably democratic state, how are people who disagree with you actually influencing the negotiations either way?

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Old 9th November 2018, 03:00 AM   #3260
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Why would a non-EU country give us better terms that those they would offer the EU? Can you give me a single reason?

For example are South Korea going to offer us a better FTA than the one they already have with the EU?
I believe it it because of our fantastic negoiciating ability and the ease we have in striking great deals for the UK.
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Old 9th November 2018, 03:05 AM   #3261
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The remainers like to drone on about leave not having a plan. They're wrong, of course,<snip>
Detail this "plan" please.
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Old 9th November 2018, 03:06 AM   #3262
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
I believe it it because of our fantastic negoiciating ability and the ease we have in striking great deals for the UK.
And of course the world will once again acknowledge the natural order that places the British at the top and flock to us to once again lead them out of their savage and heathen ways.
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Old 9th November 2018, 03:09 AM   #3263
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Detail this "plan" please.
To be fair there are two clear plans at the moment, one offered by May and one offered by Johnson. And I know a lot of people have made accusations that these plans are all over the place, contradictory, that they don't even know what they want and so on. But that is totally untrue.

May's plan is to remain PM, Johnson's is to become PM.
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Old 9th November 2018, 03:22 AM   #3264
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And of course the world will once again acknowledge the natural order that places the British at the top and flock to us to once again lead them out of their savage and heathen ways.
America wants to become great again. They will never be Great America. We are still Great Britain, and post brexit we will be competing with the Greater Antilles to become The Greatest Britian, with the added advantage that it totally solves the Irish border problem.

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Old 9th November 2018, 03:26 AM   #3265
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
To be fair there are two clear plans at the moment, one offered by May and one offered by Johnson. And I know a lot of people have made accusations that these plans are all over the place, contradictory, that they don't even know what they want and so on. But that is totally untrue.

May's plan is to remain PM, Johnson's is to become PM.
And despite both of them being completely incompetent they seem to be achieving their plans. Apparently the two most popular politicians in the UK right now which only goes to show that the people of the UK are in general, ******* idiots.
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Old 9th November 2018, 03:27 AM   #3266
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Having a different opinion to yours. If leaving the EU is all about freedom, I'm struggling to see how not being allowed to have a different opinion to yours m akes me more free.
It's important to quell the groundswell of realisation that this is a ********** project, initiated by the amoral and supported only by racists and the extremely credulous.

There's a critical mass of realisation that could lead to actually stopping the damn thing and those that yearn for whatever the **** it is that Brexit is supposed to bring don't want the world catching on to the clusterfuckwittery of it all before it's too late to turn it around.
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Old 9th November 2018, 03:56 AM   #3267
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
For example are South Korea going to offer us a better FTA than the one they already have with the EU?
You don't understand.
If FTA's were that important then the EU would already have lots of them in place with everyone.
Since they don't, then they can't be that important, so we won't need them.

That there is Leaver-Logic, as far as I can tell from reading certain posts here.
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Old 9th November 2018, 04:00 AM   #3268
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Given support and succour to the EU side, so allowing them to negotiate with greater intransigence in their efforts to deny Brexit.
What next? Accusing people of aiding "enemies of the people"?
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Old 9th November 2018, 04:01 AM   #3269
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The good deal is that we'll be free of EU rule. No one expects better economic trading with the EU. A price worth paying to be out of the corrupt EU, and the economic hit will be compensated by better trading with countries outside the EU.
No, actually it won't.
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Old 9th November 2018, 04:01 AM   #3270
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Can't we just negotiate a FTA with the Channel Islands, then use our ignorance of geography to virtually relocate them to anywhere we want to trade with?

Dave
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Old 9th November 2018, 04:05 AM   #3271
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The vote was to free the county from the EU. Not to damage it.
Again untrue. The (non-binding, zero status) vote was to leave the EU. This meant leaving all the EU negotiated agreements, including tade ones.
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Old 9th November 2018, 04:06 AM   #3272
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
No, actually it won't.
Especially without any decent FTA's in place, not that we need them...so I've been told.
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Old 9th November 2018, 04:08 AM   #3273
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Can't we just negotiate a FTA with the Channel Islands, then use our ignorance of geography to virtually relocate them to anywhere we want to trade with?

Dave
Now this, on the other hand.
This, I'm sure, is something you could get all the nutters pro-Brexit MPs to sign up to.
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Old 9th November 2018, 05:58 AM   #3274
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
You don't understand.
If FTA's were that important then the EU would already have lots of them in place with everyone.
Since they don't, then they can't be that important, so we won't need them.

That there is Leaver-Logic, as far as I can tell from reading certain posts here.
And it will be back to these mythical WTO terms but yet somehow getting better terms than everyone else in the WTO?
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Old 9th November 2018, 06:01 AM   #3275
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Can't we just negotiate a FTA with the Channel Islands, then use our ignorance of geography to virtually relocate them to anywhere we want to trade with?

Dave
This would be genius but I think it would fall at the first hurdle. The Tories would appear incapable of negotiating an FTA with themselves let alone anyone else.
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Old 9th November 2018, 06:18 AM   #3276
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Detail this "plan" please.
It's the "Violet ELizabeth" plan. In toto : "I'll thcream and thcream until I'm thick. I can!"
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Old 9th November 2018, 08:56 AM   #3277
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Hence my considered, critically thought out position on those daft enough to fall for the lies of borderline traitors.

The evidence is now so overwhelming that this **** show is being supported only by the credulous, the poorly informed, the clinically idiotic and a whole bunch of racists who've been utterly fooled, hook, line and sinker.

It's a position arrived at through extensive critical thinking.
Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The idiots that made that map can't even get the channel islands in the right place.
Originally Posted by Mid View Post
Hang on geography has never been a strong point of mine but the channel isles are to the west of Normandy aren't they? Which is what's shown on that map isn't it?


Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Let me help you out...

No other comment
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OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 9th November 2018, 09:40 AM   #3278
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And more consistency...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...xit-plan-boris

Christmas should be fun at the Johnsons this year.
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Old 9th November 2018, 10:28 AM   #3279
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Given support and succour to the EU side, so allowing them to negotiate with greater intransigence in their efforts to deny Brexit.
"The stab in the back"
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Old 9th November 2018, 12:10 PM   #3280
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"In comments reported by the Politico website, he said: ďI hadnít quite understood the full extent of this, but if you look at the UK and look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.

ďAnd that is one of the reasons why we have wanted to make sure we have a specific and very proximate relationship with the EU, to ensure frictionless trade at the border Ö I donít think it is a question so much of the risk of major shortages, but I think probably the average consumer might not be aware of the full extent to which the choice of goods that we have in the stores are dependent on one or two very specific trade routes.Ē
And who do you think "hadn't quite understood", none other than our guy in charge of negotiating our Brexit!

All at sea: Raab's ignorance of Dover-Calais stuns critics

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard
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