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Old 25th October 2018, 10:13 AM   #241
BStrong
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
On the plus side anyone who would counter protest them is antifa and so deserves the violence directed against them.

So we can safely ignore all the violence or something.
As far as I'm concerned, anybody convicted of using violence in the street over politics and speech - on both sides of the question - can be hung from the same tree.

People that want to march and act like complete idiots without any violence? Any issue? Have at it.
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Old 25th October 2018, 10:18 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
As far as I'm concerned, anybody convicted of using violence in the street over politics and speech - on both sides of the question - can be hung from the same tree.

People that want to march and act like complete idiots without any violence? Any issue? Have at it.
And being ready to defend yourself is as bad as seeking violence. Just like when the KKK attacked the communists in Greensboro 39 years ago. Self defense is a right you lose when you start protesting.
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Old 25th October 2018, 10:25 AM   #243
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Despite that the member who most frequently associates Democrats with Antifa hasn't weighed in here, it seems we have a rare ISF consensus: In no way, shape, or form is Antifa an arm of the Democratic party.

As for Antifa supporting the Democratic party ... because Antifa is amorphous, there's not an official website stating policy, at least not that I'm aware of. It appears that caveman1917 is knowledgeable about Antifa. His observations sync with my general understanding. Any objections to citing him?

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
1. Liberals/democrats are right-wingers. Just because you (ie Americans) cut off the entire left side of the spectrum with the Red Scares and then managed to delude yourselves into thinking that liberals are the left and conservatives the right doesn't make it so, liberals are moderate right-wingers and conservatives are hard right-wingers.

2. Antifa has nothing to do with the right, neither with the liberals nor with the conservatives. Antifa is made up of left-wingers (socialists, communists, anarchists, etc) who join forces to oppose fascism. Antifa hence does not have a specific political goal outside of fighting fascism, it's just the result of leftists putting their differences aside to cooperate in fighting fascism.
... <snip for brevity>
7. Antifa does not defend liberal capitalist democracy from fascists, almost all people in Antifa are leftists and hence anti-capitalist. However the unspoken rule in Antifa is that internal political differences are set aside to fight fascism together, and that outside of that groups or individuals just do their own thing. Meaning that, even though Antifa is leftist in the sense that almost all people involved are various shades of leftists, Antifa itself merely exists to fight fascism, nothing more and nothing less.
Antifa has no use for Democrats. Democrats have no use for Antifa. The effort by the GOP and willing stooges to link them together is utterly fact-free.
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Old 25th October 2018, 11:19 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Oh, but we do wish for an ethnostate, don't we?! So let's have an organization, say, a party for all wishers for an ethnostate. We won't do anything. We'll just sit quietly in a corner wishing. That is within our right to free speech, isn't it? And now and then we may have a rally where we, quietly and peacefully, of course, let our wish be heard. I mean, there could be others like us out there who might share our wish for an ethnostate, couldn't there?! Not that we'll actually do anything. Wishing is free, too, isn't it?!
Oh, but we do wish for democracy, don't we?! So let's have an organization, say, a party for all wishers for a democracy. We won't do anything. We'll just sit quietly in a corner wishing. That is within our right to free speech, isn't it? And now and then we may have a rally where we, quietly and peacefully, of course, let our wish be heard. I mean, there could be others like us out there who might share our wish for a democracy, couldn't there?! Not that we'll actually do anything. Wishing is free, too, isn't it?!

Yours sarcastically,
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Old 25th October 2018, 11:21 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Despite that the member who most frequently associates Democrats with Antifa hasn't weighed in here, it seems we have a rare ISF consensus: In no way, shape, or form is Antifa an arm of the Democratic party.

As for Antifa supporting the Democratic party ... because Antifa is amorphous, there's not an official website stating policy, at least not that I'm aware of. It appears that caveman1917 is knowledgeable about Antifa. His observations sync with my general understanding. Any objections to citing him?



Antifa has no use for Democrats. Democrats have no use for Antifa. The effort by the GOP and willing stooges to link them together is utterly fact-free.
I believe caveman1917 is the ultimate authority, among members of this forum, on Antifa, and what he states is the most accurate description of that charter-less, leaderless group that can be generated in this forum.
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Old 25th October 2018, 11:26 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
I believe caveman1917 is the ultimate authority, among members of this forum, on Antifa, and what he states is the most accurate description of that charter-less, leaderless group that can be generated in this forum.
*militant European antifa. I don't think American antifa are remotely so political. More of the 'street fighting with the Master Race' crowd
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Old 25th October 2018, 11:27 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Look, this stuff isn't difficult.

1. Liberals/democrats are right-wingers. Just because you (ie Americans) cut off the entire left side of the spectrum with the Red Scares and then managed to delude yourselves into thinking that liberals are the left and conservatives the right doesn't make it so, liberals are moderate right-wingers and conservatives are hard right-wingers.

Well, some of the people in the USA who are called liberals are probably left-wingers.

Quote:
2. Antifa has nothing to do with the right, neither with the liberals nor with the conservatives. Antifa is made up of left-wingers (socialists, communists, anarchists, etc) who join forces to oppose fascism. Antifa hence does not have a specific political goal outside of fighting fascism, it's just the result of leftists putting their differences aside to cooperate in fighting fascism.

Some of them, but far from all of them, are left-wing. Some of them are just weirdos, and some of them just like to fight:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Quote:
3. The reason Antifa fights fascism is because the left is the primary target of fascists, the camps in Spain, Italy, Germany, etc filled up with leftists long before the fascists moved on to different targets. In other words, because fascists constitute an existential threat to leftists. The fascists don't care what specific type of leftist someone is, hence why leftists go "We have a common existential threat, let's cooperate to fight it" and Antifa is the result of that.

The more sensible Antifas (left wing) actually oppose the rest of the fascist programme, too: racism, sexism, nationalism etc.

Quote:
4. Fascists don't give a flying **** about free speech, it's just a way for them to get the liberals to do their bidding. When fascists come together to march it has nothing to do with free speech, it has to do with asserting power and control over the streets. If they are not countered it feeds into their self-esteem and feeling of power and they'll continue to hunt leftists/minorities/homeless/etc in the city after the march.

They like free speech for fascists only. For the rest of humanity, no, not so much. We know that distributing a couple of leaflets about human rights would get you killed in Nazi Germany. But communists were the first victims, of course.

Quote:
5. Fascists are really cry-babies. If they do get countered then after the march they go home to cry about it on the internet and the city remains safe from packs of fascists hunting people. That crying and complaints about free speech are simply a way to get the liberals to do their bidding for them.

I think that it's usually conservatives pretending to be liberals who come to do their bidding for them.

Quote:
6. Violence is the only language they understand and it is also the only language they speak. It's not like everything else hasn't been tried on them already. It simply is what it is, hence the saying "If you can't convince a fascist then acquaint his head with the pavement."

The saying isn't very good. It's what a fascist (or most other right-wingers) talking about communists might come up with. One on one, you may attempt to appeal to the rest of common sense that they've got left (if any). It's a very slow process, but sometimes it can be done:
The white flight of Derek Black (Washington Post, Oct. 15, 2016) Very interesting article!!!
Eli Saslow: Rising out of Hatred: The Awakening of a Former White Nationalist (Sep. 2018 - amazon.com)

Quote:
7. Antifa does not defend liberal capitalist democracy from fascists, almost all people in Antifa are leftists and hence anti-capitalist. However the unspoken rule in Antifa is that internal political differences are set aside to fight fascism together, and that outside of that groups or individuals just do their own thing. Meaning that, even though Antifa is leftist in the sense that almost all people involved are various shades of leftists, Antifa itself merely exists to fight fascism, nothing more and nothing less.

Unfortunately, fewer than "almost all people in Antifa" are actually anti-capitalist. Cf. video clip above.
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Old 25th October 2018, 11:42 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Considering that the California GOP can't even field a candidate with any chance of unseating Democrat incumbents at the state and federal level, such a candidate wouldn't be anything more than comedic relief.

In S.F., our former mayor, Willie Brown (Democrat, black), is too far "right" to be welcome in current S.F. politics. Even out in the valley where Republicans are elected to the legislature they are accused by right-wing GOPers of being RHINO - Republicans In Name Only - because their constituencies expect moderate Republicanism, not the right-wing variety.
Fact is, for years the California GOP has been the laughing stock of the National GOP;they have the reputation of being the "Gant That Could Not Shoot Straight."
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Old 25th October 2018, 11:44 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
I believe caveman1917 is the ultimate authority, among members of this forum, on Antifa, and what he states is the most accurate description of that charter-less, leaderless group that can be generated in this forum.
Probably you are right. the difference is the cavmean1917 is a huge supporter of the most militant elements of Antifa.
We are talking about somebody who has been a apologist for Stalin here.
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Old 25th October 2018, 11:45 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Despite that the member who most frequently associates Democrats with Antifa hasn't weighed in here, it seems we have a rare ISF consensus: In no way, shape, or form is Antifa an arm of the Democratic party.

As for Antifa supporting the Democratic party ... because Antifa is amorphous, there's not an official website stating policy, at least not that I'm aware of. It appears that caveman1917 is knowledgeable about Antifa. His observations sync with my general understanding. Any objections to citing him?



Antifa has no use for Democrats. Democrats have no use for Antifa. The effort by the GOP and willing stooges to link them together is utterly fact-free.

I think that is true for 98% of the Democrats..but then you have the Bay Area Dems...with whom it is a different story.
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Old 25th October 2018, 11:45 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
IMHO, it very much matters what methods you use to fight fascism and who you call a fascist. As has been noted by others, since roughly the late 40s, fascist means whatever the speaker wants it too. Usually, people I don't like.
Same with 'communist' and 'socialist' (even though they all have pretty complete and comprehensive definitions) and don't think for a moment that all of this isn't done very deliberately by the corporate/state propagandists.



Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What did you expect? It's not like any significant republicans support neo Nazis.
Yes, they do. New terms like 'alt-right' and 'white nationals' were again deliberately created in order to do this very thing but right out in the open where they believe that a little plausible deniability ("no significant repubs support NATZEES!! lol") will go a long way.



Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I repeat somebody is looking an Antifa through rose colored glasses.
I don't think so, but even if true, it's better than looking through blurred and broken ones.



Originally Posted by baron View Post
I believe the former, if you replace 'terrorism' with violence, intimidation, threat, etc. I don't believe they see themselves as terrorists. There are many peaceful anti-fascist groups out there that people can and do join. The choice to profess allegiance to Antifa in preference to any of these others proves to me that the decision has been made to embrace fascism and violence.
I'm sure this will have to be repeated ad nauseum, but FASCISM ≠ VIOLENCE period. Fascism has as one component, violence.

Calling something which is violent as fascism is wrong and misleading. Fascism has many components which are easily met by the current conservative and alt-right movement but which are not met by Antifa. This only is logical because Antifa is nothing but "anti-fascist."

When the fascists go away, so will Antifa.



Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Nowadays there's usually a "yes, but...".

If Nazis are bad, opposing Nazis must be good. If the Nazis bring violence, using violence against them must be morally right, yes?

Because the Nazis are violent by definition, there must therefore be moral justification to be violent towards Nazis.

Now, about that middle ground. How about we say "Nazis are bad" and end it there with a full stop. We don't go "but... Antifa something something". That makes it look like you're apologizing for Nazis, who, as we've agreed, are bad.
Thank you! QFT.



Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
"Violent by definition" sounds dubious to me. Sounds like an excuse to be violent against them at any point you wish to be.
Do you not know of the concept of "nuance?"



Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Look, this stuff isn't difficult.

<snip>
Thank you! I'm baffled why people don't seem to get this.



Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
I'm gobsmacked when people label the American Democratic Party as liberal and/or leftist. The Democratic National Committee is, politically, about as leftist as mainstream Republicans were during the Reagan years. Obama is demonized by the right but he was despised as a turncoat by the real left for things like drone strikes, deportation rates of illegal aliens, being way too corporate friendly, needing to "evolve" on gay marriage, etc. There is no major liberal party in the US. That's why Bernie Sanders energized so many people in 2016.
Again, as someone who identifies as far left in the US, the democrats are not very left-leaning and you're absolutely right. I have much disgust and scorn for Obama too and his time in office and the continuing infringements he kept going (as a good lap-dog of the moneyed corporations should, naturally).



Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And what would you replace the evil Captilaist system with?
Why should he answer? He was just explaining a concept, it doesn't mean he advocates for it.



Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What is scary is how many "progressives" here seem all on board with attacking anybody they deem is a "fascist".
Huh. Interesting. What I see is scary is how many "centrists" and "democrats" who are supporting people who are displaying fascistic tendencies.




Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
You can't deal with the fact that antifa is a bunch of marginal idiots functionally no different than the marginal idiots they claim to be "protecting" us from.

Just be honest enough to admit it. You're in favor of vigilante mob violence with the proviso that you approve of who the victims are. I know plenty of right wing idiots that agree with you.
And I know plenty of right-wing idiots who agree with you ó that as long as the government has the monopoly of force you are defending a corrupt and bigoted system.



Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Like at Tiananmen Square?
You do know that once that poor man was out of sight, he was disappeared? By the government? Sure, he held up the tank parade for a while but paid for it with his life shortly thereafter.




Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
It should also be noted that free speech applies - even in the US - only to government suppression of speech. In the case under discussion, it appears to have been private actors acting against other private actors. Free speech doesn't apply.
This is one thing I don't understand. Especially in America. The government isn't allowed to infringe but corporations are totes free to stamp all over peoples' rights. USA! USA! USA!



Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
As far as I'm concerned, anybody convicted of using violence in the street over politics and speech - on both sides of the question - can be hung from the same tree.

People that want to march and act like complete idiots without any violence? Any issue? Have at it.
Oh, yeah, you're a cop/ex-cop so I'm unsurprised at your stance here but let's make this clear: you don't mind at all at using force or killing "complete idiots" as long as it's done by the government.

IOW, as long as the state has complete monopoly on violence, it's all fine by you. Got it.
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Old 25th October 2018, 11:47 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
As far as I'm concerned, anybody convicted of using violence in the street over politics and speech - on both sides of the question - can be hung from the same tree.

People that want to march and act like complete idiots without any violence? Any issue? Have at it.
One of the worst things about Trump is his de facto encouragement of the far right is also encouraging the Far Left.
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Old 25th October 2018, 11:49 AM   #253
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So now we are attacking forum members because they were..or are..police officers.
Pathetic.
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Old 25th October 2018, 11:51 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Probably you are right. the difference is the cavmean1917 is a huge supporter of the most militant elements of Antifa.
We are talking about somebody who has been a apologist for Stalin here.
Well, Stalin definitely was 'antifa'.
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Old 25th October 2018, 11:52 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Well, Stalin definitely was 'antifa'.
Except for that little period from Setember of 1939 to June of 1941 when Uncel Joe and Adolf were the best of buddies....
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Old 25th October 2018, 11:55 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Do you not know of the concept of "nuance?"
That's a strange question in response to a call to nuance.
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Old 25th October 2018, 11:55 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Damien Evans View Post
Congratulations, you have fallen victim to the paradox of tolerance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Never been a fan of Popper's.

I tend to align with John Rawls more than him.... "a just society must tolerate the intolerant, for otherwise, the society would then itself be intolerant, and thus unjust."
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Old 25th October 2018, 11:55 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Encouragement to genocide is not free speech.
Good. Glad we agree. That solves all the hand wringing over worrying about the free speech of Nazis then.

I've said it before if Nazis are "just another political party / political theory" then Rapist are a gender.

You split the hair between "Nazis who encourage genocide" and "Nazis that don't" you're still only gonna have one hair when you're left.

Wait I'm I a conservative or liberal in this discussion? I keep losing track of which side I'm a shill for between threads.
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Old 25th October 2018, 11:58 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Except for that little period from Setember of 1939 to June of 1941 when Uncel Joe and Adolf were the best of buddies....
Just a means to an end for both of them. The peace was never meant to last.

But at least Stalin had a cool mustache, I guess.
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Old 25th October 2018, 11:59 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
But at least Stalin had a cool mustache, I guess.
New rule. Dictators must have a cool mustache. At least a 7 on the Selleck Scale (The Selleck being the official measurement of mustache coolness."

Beards and bad mustaches are out.
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Old 25th October 2018, 11:59 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Oh, yeah, you're a cop/ex-cop so I'm unsurprised at your stance here but let's make this clear: you don't mind at all at using force or killing "complete idiots" as long as it's done by the government.

IOW, as long as the state has complete monopoly on violence, it's all fine by you. Got it.
Dude, what the hell?

Maybe you want to inch back towards the center, here. That post was off the deep end.
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Old 25th October 2018, 12:01 PM   #262
Belz...
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
New rule. Dictators must have a cool mustache.

Beards and bad mustaches are out.
No, no, no. Engels wins, and he had a beard.

I mean just look at the damned thing!
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Old 25th October 2018, 12:16 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Perfect use of no-platforming to help stop the spread of the alt-right infection.
No it isn't.

Threatening innocent third parties (the venue owners) with violence, vandalism and retribution if they allow these people to speak at their venue is not de-platforming, its terrorism.

If you want to stop these people from speaking, direct your threatening at them. Go to the venue and protest outside; hurl abuse at supporters as they enter, get together and get tickets to put hecklers in the audience. Disrupt the event as much as you can within the limits of the law. This will help to bring into the public eye the extent of bilious crap they spout.
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Old 25th October 2018, 12:17 PM   #264
uke2se
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
No it isn't.

Threatening innocent third parties (the venue owners) with violence, vandalism and retribution if they allow these people to speak at their venue is not de-platforming, its terrorism.

If you want to stop these people from speaking, direct your threatening at them. Go to the venue and protest outside; hurl abuse at supporters as they enter, get together and get tickets to put hecklers in the audience. Disrupt the event as much as you can within the limits of the law. This will help to bring into the public eye the extent of bilious crap they shout.
I thought you cared about free speech. Surely there can be no speech that is dangerous?
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Old 25th October 2018, 12:34 PM   #265
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Antifa has no use for Democrats. Democrats have no use for Antifa.
These are pretty strong claims. Anything to back them up?
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Old 25th October 2018, 12:37 PM   #266
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Perfect use of no-platforming to help stop the spread of the alt-right infection.
Why are you so terrified of differing opinions?
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Old 25th October 2018, 01:45 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
These are pretty strong claims. Anything to back them up?
caveman1917's post. I do believe he has a direct tap to "Antifa", if you read his posting history (with the caveat that yes, it's the internet and things aren't always what they seem).

ETA: see, for example, this thread:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...php?p=12446169
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Old 25th October 2018, 02:15 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
caveman1917's post. I do believe he has a direct tap to "Antifa"
If I lose 120lbs, hit someone with a bike lock then wank off in my parents' basement to my secret photo of Milo whilst wearing a mask, will I have a direct link to Antifa too?
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Old 25th October 2018, 03:11 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
If I lose 120lbs, hit someone with a bike lock then wank off in my parents' basement to my secret photo of Milo whilst wearing a mask, will I have a direct link to Antifa too?
Sure, sure.
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Old 25th October 2018, 03:32 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
These are pretty strong claims. Anything to back them up?
No sale. Dems+Antifa is a new GOP talking point. I call BS on it. It's up to you, or anyone else who buys into this nonsense, to provide evidence that Dems support Antifa. See post #1.
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Old 25th October 2018, 04:29 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
One of the worst things about Trump is his de facto encouragement of the far right is also encouraging the Far Left.
IMO the worst thing about Comandante Boor-O is that his election - an unqualified idiot with nothing more than name recognition and money - will lead to the election of even worse unqualified idiots and they won't necessarily be Democrats or Republicans. I believe this ******* is so narcissistic that he doesn't know and ultimately doesn't care that his behavior has consequence past his immediate gratification.

Trump doesn't care who the hell he associates with, as long as they blow smoke up his ass in the way he prefers. All the hoopla about meeting with Kim Jong-un is a great example. He publicly predicted his success before the meeting, staged just about every aspect as a salute to Jong and NK and declared success after the meeting w/o one thing in hand to back it up. He goes after the leaders of allied nations while practically giving Putin a handy and ignoring every piece of evidence that Putin isn't anything close to being someone that is worthy of trust.

As scummy as his associations with white power mental defectives are, his performance on the international stage has far greater consequence to the U.S. as a nation and the world at large.
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Old 25th October 2018, 04:34 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
No sale. Dems+Antifa is a new GOP talking point. I call BS on it. It's up to you, or anyone else who buys into this nonsense, to provide evidence that Dems support Antifa. See post #1.
I call BS on it also. Yes, there are a few Dems who are Antifa fellow travelers
but probably fewer then People in the GOP who are sympathetic to the KKK.
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Old 25th October 2018, 04:37 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
IMO the worst thing about Comandante Boor-O is that his election - an unqualified idiot with nothing more than name recognition and money - will lead to the election of even worse unqualified idiots and they won't necessarily be Democrats or Republicans. I believe this ******* is so narcissistic that he doesn't know and ultimately doesn't care that his behavior has consequence past his immediate gratification.

Trump doesn't care who the hell he associates with, as long as they blow smoke up his ass in the way he prefers. All the hoopla about meeting with Kim Jong-un is a great example. He publicly predicted his success before the meeting, staged just about every aspect as a salute to Jong and NK and declared success after the meeting w/o one thing in hand to back it up. He goes after the leaders of allied nations while practically giving Putin a handy and ignoring every piece of evidence that Putin isn't anything close to being someone that is worthy of trust.

As scummy as his associations with white power mental defectives are, his performance on the international stage has far greater consequence to the U.S. as a nation and the world at large.
THis. ANd it will end with Trump getting us into a bloody new war, mark my words. everything about him, from his obsession with being seen as "tough" and his casual acceptance of violence screams "TThis is somebody who will get us into a war".
I would not be surprised if we end up going to war with North Korea after all, when Trump finds out that Kim has snookered him big time, and Trump starts fight just out of pique.
As for Putin, I am not so sure it's acase of Trumpy trusting Putin, as Trumpy thinking he can somehow exploit Putin ,possibly for sheer personal gain. Of course the idea that Trump can somehow outsmart Putin is delusional. No fan of Vlad, but when it comes to brains Putin clearly has a massive advantage.
What shocks me is that so many in the GOP have to know this, but still support Trump, probably out of fear of his base.
More and more I think the desire for relection overpowering everything else is a cancer in our poltical system, and term limits is the only cure.
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Old 25th October 2018, 04:45 PM   #274
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Hopefully the Trump experience will sour the American people on the whole idea of Celebrity Presidents again. Not a huge fan of Reagan, but at least he has a pretty solid experience as Governor of California before becoming President.
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

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Old 26th October 2018, 04:46 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I call BS on it also. Yes, there are a few Dems who are Antifa fellow travelers
but probably fewer then People in the GOP who are sympathetic to the KKK.
Even in an alternate universe where the President of the United States is capable of denouncing David Duke, I have a hard time getting all worked up over members of the Berkeley City Council.
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Old 26th October 2018, 06:30 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What shocks me is that so many in the GOP have to know this, but still support Trump, probably out of fear of his base.

More and more I think the desire for relection overpowering everything else is a cancer in our poltical system, and term limits is the only cure.
<Bolding mine.> Bingo.
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Old 26th October 2018, 07:07 AM   #277
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Shorter term limits just mean more time campaigning, less governing; it also hands more power to lobbyists, who know how to draft legislation - unlike a newbie Congressman.
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Old 26th October 2018, 05:47 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Dude, what the hell?

Maybe you want to inch back towards the center, here. That post was off the deep end.
Yeah.

@BStrong: I apologize for bringing into the conversation your job/former job. It wasn't necessary for me to make my point.
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Old 26th October 2018, 06:07 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Yeah.

@BStrong: I apologize for bringing into the conversation your job/former job. It wasn't necessary for me to make my point.
I think bringing his job into the conversation wasn't the problem. It's the implication that he was part of the so-called "bad apples".
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Old 28th October 2018, 10:00 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I think bringing his job into the conversation wasn't the problem. It's the implication that he was part of the so-called "bad apples".
Oh. Well, that wasn't even implied. I never even once considered him a bad apple in the police department or anywhere else. Never even thought that. The idea I so poorly communicated was that he seemed okay with violence as long as it was against people who are fighting the government. That was my only point.

I don't think violence on behalf of the government is necessarily a good thing.
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