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Old 28th October 2018, 10:34 AM   #281
portlandatheist
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Remember, if you are anti antifa, then you are a Fascist by definition so you better get with the program, fall in line and be obedient and subservient. Do not question anything antifa says or does you fascist scum! Disappear from the face of the earth!

“The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is a step forward.”
--Friedrich Engels
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Old 28th October 2018, 10:56 AM   #282
uke2se
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
Remember, if you are anti antifa, then you are a Fascist by definition so you better get with the program, fall in line and be obedient and subservient. Do not question anything antifa says or does you fascist scum! Disappear from the face of the earth!

“The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is a step forward.”
--Friedrich Engels
No, you can be "anti-Antifa" without being fascist. Regardless of what you think, the word 'fascist' actually has a meaning, and being against it should come naturally to any sound minded person.
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Old 29th October 2018, 03:20 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
No, you can be "anti-Antifa" without being fascist. Regardless of what you think, the word 'fascist' actually has a meaning, and being against it should come naturally to any sound minded person.
No don't you understand anyone counter protesting Nazis is a fascist by definition clearly. Makes driving cars into them more acceptable.
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Old 29th October 2018, 04:12 AM   #284
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
No, you can be "anti-Antifa" without being fascist. Regardless of what you think, the word 'fascist' actually has a meaning, and being against it should come naturally to any sound minded person.
You are ignoring the people for whom Fascism isn't radical enough.
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Old 5th November 2018, 05:33 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
The saying isn't very good. It's what a fascist (or most other right-wingers) talking about communists might come up with.
Sigh... It's an oft-used paraphrase of a statement by Trotsky regarding the use of violence to counter fascist demonstrations. You just don't have a clue what communists are or think, do you?

As for the rest, thanks but I don't need a lecture about antifa

ETA: source

Originally Posted by Trotsky
The tactical, or if you will, "technical," task was quite simple-grab every fascist or every isolated group of fascists by their collars, acquaint them with the pavement a few times, strip them of their fascist insignia and documents, and without carrying things anyvfurther, leave them with their fright and a few good black and blue marks.
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Old 5th November 2018, 06:11 AM   #286
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Antifa are far Left Democrats. Own it.
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Old 5th November 2018, 06:17 AM   #287
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Antifa actually hate Democrats too. Hard to own a group that hates you.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/gop-ha...antifa-problem
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Old 5th November 2018, 06:34 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Antifa are far Left Democrats.
I think you've got "the left" and "Democrats" confused.
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Old 5th November 2018, 07:39 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Antifa are far Left Democrats. Own it.
Chris B.
The actual "far left" are

1) the folks that view the democratic party as corrupt fools who stole the nomination from Sanders (in reality, he just conceded black voters to Clinton, but that's another discussion);

2) DSA members (These guys are only "far left" here in the US, oddly);

3) Anarchists - the guys who run around smashing windows and setting things on fire.

None of the three are democrats.
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Old 5th November 2018, 07:55 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
The actual "far left" are

1) the folks that view the democratic party as corrupt fools who stole the nomination from Sanders (in reality, he just conceded black voters to Clinton, but that's another discussion);

2) DSA members (These guys are only "far left" here in the US, oddly);

3) Anarchists - the guys who run around smashing windows and setting things on fire.

None of the three are democrats.
Nitpick: the anarchists that I was very familiar with back in the day were staunchly apolitical. They just want the status quo torn down and have roughly equal contempt for any establishment party. Strictly a negative or transitory effort for them, with no actual political endgame.
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Old 5th November 2018, 08:11 AM   #291
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Aren't some DSA members also Democrats?
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Old 5th November 2018, 09:49 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Aren't some DSA members also Democrats?
Yes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Carter_(politician)
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Old 5th November 2018, 11:33 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Antifa are far Left Democrats. Own it.
Chris B.
You mean just like neo-fascist white national scumbags are far Right Republicans. Own it.
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Old 5th November 2018, 01:52 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
You mean just like neo-fascist white national scumbags are far Right Republicans. Own it.
There's no need for an attempt at insult to all Republicans by striking out "far Right" from your statement. Absolutely there are far Right scumbags which make up a small percentage of the Republican votes in this Country.

In the same respect it's intellectually dishonest for Democrats to not accept the far Left groups such as Antifa as part of their voter base.

In fact with some comparison of tactics, you see far more Antifa tactics being embraced and practiced by average Democrats than far Right tactics being embraced or practiced by average Republicans. Though each group supposedly only makes up a small percentage of the total base for each.
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Old 5th November 2018, 01:58 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
The actual "far left" are

1) the folks that view the democratic party as corrupt fools who stole the nomination from Sanders (in reality, he just conceded black voters to Clinton, but that's another discussion);

2) DSA members (These guys are only "far left" here in the US, oddly);

3) Anarchists - the guys who run around smashing windows and setting things on fire.

None of the three are democrats.
So, how do these groups typically vote? Democrat or Republican?
Chris B.
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Old 5th November 2018, 02:00 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
So, how do these groups typically vote? Democrat or Republican?
Chris B.
Anarchists...voting?
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Old 5th November 2018, 02:09 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Antifa actually hate Democrats too. Hard to own a group that hates you.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/gop-ha...antifa-problem
From WIKI:

"The Antifa (/ænˈtiːfə, ˈæntiˌfɑː/)[1] movement is a conglomeration of left wing autonomous, self-styled anti-fascist militant[2][3][4][5][6] groups in the United States.[7][8][9] The principal feature of antifa groups is their use of direct action,[10] harassing those whom they deem to be fascists, racists and right wing extremists.[11] Conflicts are both online and in real life.[11] They engage in varied protest tactics, which include digital activism [12] property damage and physical violence.[7][13][14][15] They tend to be anti-capitalist[16] and they are predominantly far-left and militant left,[17][10] which includes anarchists, communists and socialists.[18][19][20][21] Their stated focus is on fighting far-right and white supremacist ideologies directly, rather than politically.[10]"
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Old 5th November 2018, 02:11 PM   #298
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Okay so when people imagine a world where everybody has been properly Sorting Hatted into their political groups and assigned their proper "1-10" score of how extreme they are and all sides have a big proper scoreboard where all their points are added up... what's changed? What problems have been solved?
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Old 5th November 2018, 02:14 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
So, how do these groups typically vote? Democrat or Republican?
Chris B.
I think that those members of these groups who vote probably vote Democrat more often than not.

And I think that most racist groups tend to lean Republican. Now, some in the Republican party tend to encourage such groups (Trump, for instance, speaks rather a lot about an invasion from the south), but even then, I don't think the GOP as a whole owns Stormfront.

I don't know any major Democratic figure who speaks to antifa, not even obliquely. I don't care for the couple of folks on the Democratic side calling for public demonstrations against Republicans in private gatherings in public, but it's not calling for actual violence.
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Old 5th November 2018, 02:14 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
From WIKI:

"The Antifa (/ænˈtiːfə, ˈæntiˌfɑː/)[1] movement is a conglomeration of left wing autonomous, self-styled anti-fascist militant[2][3][4][5][6] groups in the United States.[7][8][9] The principal feature of antifa groups is their use of direct action,[10] harassing those whom they deem to be fascists, racists and right wing extremists.[11] Conflicts are both online and in real life.[11] They engage in varied protest tactics, which include digital activism [12] property damage and physical violence.[7][13][14][15] They tend to be anti-capitalist[16] and they are predominantly far-left and militant left,[17][10] which includes anarchists, communists and socialists.[18][19][20][21] Their stated focus is on fighting far-right and white supremacist ideologies directly, rather than politically.[10]"
And? There's not one mention of the Democratic party in there, were you trying to make some sort of point?
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Old 5th November 2018, 02:33 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I think that those members of these groups who vote probably vote Democrat more often than not.

And I think that most racist groups tend to lean Republican. Now, some in the Republican party tend to encourage such groups (Trump, for instance, speaks rather a lot about an invasion from the south), but even then, I don't think the GOP as a whole owns Stormfront.

I don't know any major Democratic figure who speaks to antifa, not even obliquely. I don't care for the couple of folks on the Democratic side calling for public demonstrations against Republicans in private gatherings in public, but it's not calling for actual violence.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these guys voted some form of leftist third party. Working Families, Green, Socialist, whatever.
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Old 5th November 2018, 02:44 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
The actual "far left" are

1) the folks that view the democratic party as corrupt fools who stole the nomination from Sanders (in reality, he just conceded black voters to Clinton, but that's another discussion);
...and just like that, Alex Jones is a member of the far left.
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Old 5th November 2018, 02:58 PM   #303
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Stormfront had 326,000 members in 2017, 30,000 of those registering in the first 8 months.

For all those trying to pin the less than 1000 Antifa activists arrested that I could manually total up in the U.S. in 2018, please justify for me how they are anywhere near the significance level of neo-nazis and white supremacists. How many Antifa, for example, have gotten elected or led large, violent, terrorist organizations like the KKK, instead of sporadic acts of violence? Have Antifa lynched anyone? Dragged them from pickup trucks? I'm trying to get a sense of anyway they could be an equivalent indictment of the left.

I don't have a dog in this fight, by the way. Not a Democrat, no longer a Republican.
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Old 5th November 2018, 06:04 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
...and just like that, Alex Jones is a member of the far left.
It only looks that way because you deceitfully cherry picked one bullet point out the three bullet points in his post?
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Old 5th November 2018, 07:01 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
There's no need for an attempt at insult to all Republicans by striking out "far Right" from your statement. Absolutely there are far Right scumbags which make up a small percentage of the Republican votes in this Country.

In the same respect it's intellectually dishonest for Democrats to not accept the far Left groups such as Antifa as part of their voter base.
Absolutely not, as I've repeatedly said. Antifa is the left. Democrats are still well far to the right on the political spectrum comparatively speaking. The real issue is the fault of the winner-take-all and first-past-the-post voting style which guarantees a two-party system sooner or later. Two parties in no way captures the various levels of beliefs along the entire spectrum of politics and socio-economics; I can therefore see it being somewhat natural to make this assumption (that Antifa is embraced by Democrats) as well as a way to try and equalize the two parties so you can minimize the real damage done by Republicans and maximize the far less damage done by Democrats.


Quote:
In fact with some comparison of tactics, you see far more Antifa tactics being embraced and practiced by average Democrats than far Right tactics being embraced or practiced by average Republicans.
Hahahaha! Again, absolutely not. More attempts at spreading the Great Lie, though not effective against people who actually know these things (whether or not you actually think it or are just toeing your party line). I won't bother asking you for evidence either because it's just a waste of time.
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Old 5th November 2018, 07:19 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
In fact with some comparison of tactics, you see far more Antifa tactics being embraced and practiced by average Democrats than far Right tactics being embraced or practiced by average Republicans. Though each group supposedly only makes up a small percentage of the total base for each.
Chris B.
I've never heard a significant Democrat refer to Antifa as "very fine people" or anything else complimentary. Whereas ...
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Old 5th November 2018, 08:50 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Absolutely not, as I've repeatedly said. Antifa is the left. Democrats are still well far to the right on the political spectrum comparatively speaking. The real issue is the fault of the winner-take-all and first-past-the-post voting style which guarantees a two-party system sooner or later. Two parties in no way captures the various levels of beliefs along the entire spectrum of politics and socio-economics; I can therefore see it being somewhat natural to make this assumption (that Antifa is embraced by Democrats) as well as a way to try and equalize the two parties so you can minimize the real damage done by Republicans and maximize the far less damage done by Democrats.



Hahahaha! Again, absolutely not. More attempts at spreading the Great Lie, though not effective against people who actually know these things (whether or not you actually think it or are just toeing your party line). I won't bother asking you for evidence either because it's just a waste of time.
You really need to remove those blinders. Evidence of Liberal tactics is easy to see as it has become commonplace.

My own Senator Mitch McConnell was accosted while trying to have a bite at a local Louisville eatery. As well many other Republicans have been targeted in public and private.

It's ok though. I don't expect you to appreciate record high jobs and record low unemployment. Or record high coal exports and no new wars.............It's perfectly fine if you cannot admit our economy is doing well and wages are rising. Welcome to the Republican reality.
Chris B.
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Old 5th November 2018, 09:48 PM   #308
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Republicans might get an earful from Democrats, but Democrats get pipe bombs from Republicans.
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Old 5th November 2018, 10:35 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
..our economy is doing well
Doing well!? Bwahahahaha! Seriously?

The Federal budget deficit for 2019 is $985 BILLION.... 18% greater than 2018 year $833 BILLION deficit.

Quote:
Welcome to the Republican reality.
I agree
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Old 5th November 2018, 11:14 PM   #310
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Doing well!? Bwahahahaha! Seriously?

The Federal budget deficit for 2019 is $985 BILLION.... 18% greater than 2018 year $833 BILLION deficit.



I agree
That's the next generation's problem - and what have they ever done for us?.
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Old 5th November 2018, 11:26 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Republicans might get an earful from Democrats, but Democrats get pipe bombs from Republicans.
Since you went there I have no choice but to point out Republicans actually received life threatening gunshot injuries from a Bernie supporter.........
Chris B.
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Old 5th November 2018, 11:33 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Doing well!? Bwahahahaha! Seriously?

The Federal budget deficit for 2019 is $985 BILLION.... 18% greater than 2018 year $833 BILLION deficit.



I agree

And as a reminder in 2011 the Federal budget deficit was projected at 1.65 Trillion...........actual was 1.3 trillion........
Math anyone?
Chris B.
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Last edited by ChrisBFRPKY; 5th November 2018 at 11:54 PM. Reason: added projected and actual numbers.
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Old 5th November 2018, 11:33 PM   #313
thaiboxerken
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Since you went there I have no choice but to point out Republicans actually received life threatening gunshot injuries from a Bernie supporter.........
Chris B.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...=.7dfa3fb1ae1e

Right wing violence happens much, much more than from the left. This "both sides do it" nonsense is a ridiculous argument with no merit.
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Old 5th November 2018, 11:40 PM   #314
thaiboxerken
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https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306

Budget deficit peaked in 2009, largely because costs that the Bush administration hid were placed on the books and a large stimulus package that helped claw our economy from the hole that Republicans made. The deficit was then cut significantly by more than half. Trump and the GOP immediately increased the deficit as soon as they passed a budget.
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Old 5th November 2018, 11:45 PM   #315
ChrisBFRPKY
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...=.7dfa3fb1ae1e

Right wing violence happens much, much more than from the left. This "both sides do it" nonsense is a ridiculous argument with no merit.
Ken, a Washington Post piece demonizing Republicans is far from evidence. However, both sides have outer fringes that are unpopular and disavowed by the centered base Right or Left.

It is ridiculous to claim only the best supporters are included in one's particular voter base. Both contain unfortunate extremes. Nobody has to like it, and again most disavow these groups, but owning up to the facts is a requirement to remain honest.
Chris B.
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One could choose to be civil though and still disagree. For example, since I know Bigfoot does exist, I don't call others "idiot" just because they're uneducated on the subject and share a different view based on that lack of experience. Chris B.
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Old 5th November 2018, 11:58 PM   #316
ChrisBFRPKY
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306

Budget deficit peaked in 2009, largely because costs that the Bush administration hid were placed on the books and a large stimulus package that helped claw our economy from the hole that Republicans made. The deficit was then cut significantly by more than half. Trump and the GOP immediately increased the deficit as soon as they passed a budget.
I agree 2009 was a little too soon after the housing crisis to point fingers so that's why I quoted the 2011 Federal Budget Deficit. Actual was 1.3 Trillion, the projection was 1.65 Trillion.
Chris B.
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One could choose to be civil though and still disagree. For example, since I know Bigfoot does exist, I don't call others "idiot" just because they're uneducated on the subject and share a different view based on that lack of experience. Chris B.
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Old 6th November 2018, 12:41 AM   #317
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It's is childish and downright anti-American for Republicans to consider it a form of violence when citizens exercise their first Amendment rights.
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Old 6th November 2018, 01:33 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
You really need to remove those blinders. Evidence of Liberal tactics is easy to see as it has become commonplace.

My own Senator Mitch McConnell was accosted while trying to have a bite at a local Louisville eatery. As well many other Republicans have been targeted in public and private.

It's ok though. I don't expect you to appreciate record high jobs and record low unemployment. Or record high coal exports and no new wars.............It's perfectly fine if you cannot admit our economy is doing well and wages are rising. Welcome to the Republican reality.
Chris B.
Can I just say that I hugely appreciate having someone here to argue the Trump/GOP side of things with actual arguments rather than just spamming, sarcasm, and stupid jokes. Always welcome.
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Old 6th November 2018, 02:58 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
And as a reminder in 2011 the Federal budget deficit was projected at 1.65 Trillion...........actual was 1.3 trillion........
Math anyone?
Chris B.
As a reminder, Obama inherited a $1.4 trillion deficit in 2009 from Dubya's Republican Government, during an international financial crisis, and thanks to Dubya's complete lack of fiscal prudence, and DESPITE having little choice but to bail out Banks and industries, and DESPITE having a flipped house working against him during from 2011 to 2016, STILL managed the massive task of reducing, the deficit by almost $750 million by the time he left office.

2009 $1,413
2010 $1,294
2011 $1,300
2012 $1,087
2013 $679
2014 $485
2015 $438.
2016 $585
2017 $665.

2018 $833
2019 $984
2020 $987 (proj)
2021 $916 (proj)


Facts anyone?
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Old 6th November 2018, 04:45 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Since you went there I have no choice but to point out Republicans actually received life threatening gunshot injuries from a Bernie supporter.........
Chris B.
No reply to my post below? It's even directly related to the OP:

Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Stormfront had 326,000 members in 2017, 30,000 of those registering in the first 8 months.

For all those trying to pin the less than 1000 Antifa activists arrested that I could manually total up in the U.S. in 2018, please justify for me how they are anywhere near the significance level of neo-nazis and white supremacists. How many Antifa, for example, have gotten elected or led large, violent, terrorist organizations like the KKK, instead of sporadic acts of violence? Have Antifa lynched anyone? Dragged them from pickup trucks? I'm trying to get a sense of anyway they could be an equivalent indictment of the left.

I don't have a dog in this fight, by the way. Not a Democrat, no longer a Republican.
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