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Old 2nd November 2018, 11:57 AM   #81
Silly Green Monkey
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I've got a better idea: require buses to stop perpendicular to the street, blocking it entirely.
I've ridden extensively in those things, they handle like pregnant walruses. Farmers aren't going to want their fences and corn taken down.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 11:58 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I've got a better idea: require buses to stop perpendicular to the street, blocking it entirely.
I was kind of thinking the same thing, park it at an angle so the headlights aren't pointing directly at oncoming traffic, but warning lights and reflectors are very visible.

Also, I have noticed some cars that dim one headlight when the blinkers are blinking. maybe dimming the headlights when the bus stops would help make the warning lights more apparent.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 12:00 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Not to worry. She is a self described idiot.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us...n-in-cleveland
The "someone" was the bus driver who got sufficiently browned off to make a point of it.

Some people have this odd sense of entitlement. My ex-wife thinks that if she considers she is correct then she has the right to simply blast on through. She is right so "they" are at fault.

I pointed out that it doesn't matter if you are right if you die. It changed nothing.

My accident count? 1. Hers? Holy crap how can she still get insurance?

There is a mindset out there that whatever one does in one's vehicle is by default correct, and ergo everyone else is wrong.

One fateful Christmas day, she wrote off my car. It was a high spec jalopy that I loved, but I didn't really care. Nobody was hurt.

Her concern? Not the car she had written off, or the other car she had written off, or it's occupants if any, not whether anyone was injured, no. It was the other guys fault. That was the important part. To her.

In many ways, that was the beginning of the end for us.

And this is the thing. People in cars often seem to have no sense of reality. It is no use saying that the light was green if an 18 wheeler kills you because you chose not to look.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 12:06 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
But when you see the flashing lights you are required to stop in both directions. It shouldn't matter whether you can actually see any children. But some kind of side lighting certainly couldn't hurt.
Yes, you're right but I suspect some people might think that a double yellow means you don't have to stop. I know because I had to look up what the rule actually was for school buses. Most of the school buses around my area usually are accompanied with a crossing guard to make sure everyone stops.

More public education would help too.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 12:10 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I was kind of thinking the same thing, park it at an angle so the headlights aren't pointing directly at oncoming traffic, but warning lights and reflectors are very visible.
It wouldn't cost much to make the headlights flash, too, when the other flashers are on, like police cars.

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
....
Also, I have noticed some cars that dim one headlight]when the blinkers are blinking. maybe dimming the headlights when the bus stops would help make the warning lights more apparent.
That sounds like an electrical short. How could one headlight be dimmed?
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Old 2nd November 2018, 12:13 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Yes, you're right but I suspect some people might think that a double yellow means you don't have to stop. I know because I had to look up what the rule actually was for school buses. Most of the school buses around my area usually are accompanied with a crossing guard to make sure everyone stops.

More public education would help too.

Every driver is expected/required to know the law. There's not a lot of public education about what stop signs or do not enter signs mean. Bus cameras and fat fines have had some effect.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 12:33 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
The "someone" was the bus driver who got sufficiently browned off to make a point of it.

Some people have this odd sense of entitlement. My ex-wife thinks that if she considers she is correct then she has the right to simply blast on through. She is right so "they" are at fault.

I pointed out that it doesn't matter if you are right if you die. It changed nothing.

My accident count? 1. Hers? Holy crap how can she still get insurance?

There is a mindset out there that whatever one does in one's vehicle is by default correct, and ergo everyone else is wrong.

One fateful Christmas day, she wrote off my car. It was a high spec jalopy that I loved, but I didn't really care. Nobody was hurt.

Her concern? Not the car she had written off, or the other car she had written off, or it's occupants if any, not whether anyone was injured, no. It was the other guys fault. That was the important part. To her.

In many ways, that was the beginning of the end for us.

And this is the thing. People in cars often seem to have no sense of reality. It is no use saying that the light was green if an 18 wheeler kills you because you chose not to look.
Dude, I think you were married to my sister!
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Old 2nd November 2018, 12:42 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
The "someone" was the bus driver who got sufficiently browned off to make a point of it.

Some people have this odd sense of entitlement. My ex-wife thinks that if she considers she is correct then she has the right to simply blast on through. She is right so "they" are at fault.

I pointed out that it doesn't matter if you are right if you die. It changed nothing.

My accident count? 1. Hers? Holy crap how can she still get insurance?

There is a mindset out there that whatever one does in one's vehicle is by default correct, and ergo everyone else is wrong.

One fateful Christmas day, she wrote off my car. It was a high spec jalopy that I loved, but I didn't really care. Nobody was hurt.

Her concern? Not the car she had written off, or the other car she had written off, or it's occupants if any, not whether anyone was injured, no. It was the other guys fault. That was the important part. To her.

In many ways, that was the beginning of the end for us.

And this is the thing. People in cars often seem to have no sense of reality. It is no use saying that the light was green if an 18 wheeler kills you because you chose not to look.
Reminds me of this PSA which really made me think.
https://youtu.be/5gCDZD9wVEY
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Old 2nd November 2018, 12:42 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Ummm those are two different cases.
Sorry, I should have said "The woman in this video..."

Can't edit it now.

Just illustrating how some drivers just ignore the laws about school buses.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 05:00 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Some people have this odd sense of entitlement. My ex-wife thinks that if she considers she is correct then she has the right to simply blast on through. She is right so "they" are at fault.

I pointed out that it doesn't matter if you are right if you die. It changed nothing.
My brother's got a motorcycle. I'm sure within a metaphysical certainty that his last thought on this Earth on going to be "Oh I've got the right of way he has to stop..." right before a bread truck or whatever turns him into quarter-mile technicolor stain smeared on the highway.

Quote:
It is no use saying that the light was green if an 18 wheeler kills you because you chose not to look.
This is why I hate, detest when people in line at light, stop sign, turn, merge, whatever honk if the car in front takes a few more second then they want to turn into the intersection or pull onto the road or merge on the highway. No I'm not talking about people who sit there forever or miss entire lights but the ones who commit the apparently mortal sin of not flooring it the second there is a green light or opening. Motherhumper they are the ones putting their ass on the line, if they want to take a second or two to get a warm and fuzzy that that car approaching isn't going to blow through the stop sign or that that car isn't going to try and beat the red light let them.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 05:44 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
The "someone" was the bus driver who got sufficiently browned off to make a point of it.

Some people have this odd sense of entitlement. My ex-wife thinks that if she considers she is correct then she has the right to simply blast on through. She is right so "they" are at fault.

I pointed out that it doesn't matter if you are right if you die. It changed nothing.

My accident count? 1. Hers? Holy crap how can she still get insurance?

There is a mindset out there that whatever one does in one's vehicle is by default correct, and ergo everyone else is wrong.

One fateful Christmas day, she wrote off my car. It was a high spec jalopy that I loved, but I didn't really care. Nobody was hurt.

Her concern? Not the car she had written off, or the other car she had written off, or it's occupants if any, not whether anyone was injured, no. It was the other guys fault. That was the important part. To her.

In many ways, that was the beginning of the end for us.

And this is the thing. People in cars often seem to have no sense of reality. It is no use saying that the light was green if an 18 wheeler kills you because you chose not to look.
Oh sweet jesus, THIS. I always ask such people if it will comfort anyone to have 'They had the Right of Way' carved on their tombstone.

I have a similar problem with pedestrians in NJ, USA. There is this statewide misconception that pedestrians always have the right of way in traffic. Not so; a pedestrian has the right of way in a crosswalk where they are crossing legally and safely.

The problem is that most believe that the law is that you can walk into the street anywhere, anytime, no matter how close an approaching car is, and the drivers must (and will) stop for you. No exaggeration: they will walk briskly off a sidewalk with no hesitation pushing a stroller into four lane traffic. And I mean no hesitation. And into traffic.

Really can't believe physics hasn't resolved this situation more often than it has.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 05:55 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
This is why I hate, detest when people in line at light, stop sign, turn, merge, whatever honk if the car in front takes a few more second then they want to turn into the intersection or pull onto the road or merge on the highway. No I'm not talking about people who sit there forever or miss entire lights but the ones who commit the apparently mortal sin of not flooring it the second there is a green light or opening. Motherhumper they are the ones putting their ass on the line, if they want to take a second or two to get a warm and fuzzy that that car approaching isn't going to blow through the stop sign or that that car isn't going to try and beat the red light let them.

Nobody asks them to 'put their ass on the line.' You know, there is the option start slowly and watch out for approaching traffic from both sides. When you are talking about taking "a few more seconds," I'm beginning to suspect that you aren't paying attention, are texting and haven't noticed that the light has switched to green.
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Old 5th November 2018, 02:20 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
That sounds like an electrical short. How could one headlight be dimmed?
Audi's do it.
Turn the indicator on and the light on that side dims so they are more visible.
It's by design.
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Old 5th November 2018, 03:22 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Yes. My feeling is that an official painted on the road crosswalk would indicate (a little more forcefully) to the oncoming drivers that they must stop. In the Indiana accident there was no official crosswalk.

My personal experience is that drivers simply ignore crosswalks more often than they abide by them. When I lived in the city within walking distance of work, I lost count of the times I'd watched cars blow right through painted crosswalks while there were pedestrians crossing. It came to a bit over half the drivers ignoring painted crosswalks and just skating right on through them, and a bit less than half actually stopping as they were legally mandated to do. The ratio was closer to 80:20 when it came to unmarked crosswalks. I've narrowly avoided getting hit multiple times, and in one incident that sticks in my head, one of my friends only avoided getting hit by a car making an unlawful left turn through a painted crosswalk full of pedestrians because I happened to see him coming, and had just enough time to reach out and yank her back out of his way before he sped through.

My experience with drivers here is that the majority of them appear to think that not only do the traffic laws not apply to them when they're in a hurry (which is always), but that the laws of physics don't apply to them either.
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Old 5th November 2018, 03:25 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Audi's do it.
Turn the indicator on and the light on that side dims so they are more visible.
It's by design.
Are you sure that's true in the U.S.? I don't recall ever seeing it, and if I had it would strike me as unusual enough to remember.
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Old 5th November 2018, 03:34 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Are you sure that's true in the U.S.? I don't recall ever seeing it, and if I had it would strike me as unusual enough to remember.

Yes, this strikes me as some kind of snivelly Euro thing.
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Old 5th November 2018, 05:42 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I was actually interested in how this event would be seen by other countries; with specialized "school buses" being a mostly American and Canadian thing.
I think the major difference is that the UK, buses on school routes will only be stopping at mostly regular bus stops, and that generally speaking there tends to be lots of crossing aids where they are needed, notwithstanding the fact that legally people can cross roads anywhere, motorways excepted. Bus stops are often paired on opposite sides of the road, and there will be either a full pedestrian crossing or at least a mid-road refuge in close proximity. That would be especially the case on a road with a speed limit above 30 or 40 mph, let alone 55.
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Old 5th November 2018, 05:51 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Actually, with the school bus lights flashing, they shouldn't have had to look. They no doubt thought cars would stop.
"Look right, look left, look right again," is drummed into British kids, even when at full pedestrian crossings. Nobody is taught that they can count on drivers actually obeying the rules, even though they mostly do.
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Old 5th November 2018, 05:52 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
I think the major difference is that the UK, buses on school routes will only be stopping at mostly regular bus stops, and that generally speaking there tends to be lots of crossing aids where they are needed, notwithstanding the fact that legally people can cross roads anywhere, motorways excepted. Bus stops are often paired on opposite sides of the road, and there will be either a full pedestrian crossing or at least a mid-road refuge in close proximity. That would be especially the case on a road with a speed limit above 30 or 40 mph, let alone 55.
This is also true in most cities in Australia, as far as I know. Here in Canberra, all school zones are set to a speed limit of 40kph. Which I think would be about 25mph in the old units.
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Old 5th November 2018, 06:01 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Money is always an issue. Some cities have installed these "HAWK" lights at mid-block crossing points.
https://michigancompletestreets.word...als-explained/

They can cost $150,000 each.
I think someone's being fleeced.

Cost of Highway Works (Wiltshire Council)

A Puffin or Toucan crossing would seem analogous.
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Old 5th November 2018, 06:04 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
It's in the middle of the country roads. A crosswalk would mean nothing.

No one would see the stupid crosswalk until they ran over it.

It's not a pedestrian area in anyway.
Drivers would ignore crossing warning signs?
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Old 5th November 2018, 06:35 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Drivers would ignore crossing warning signs?
Crossing warning signs, railroad crossings, flooded out roads...
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Old 5th November 2018, 06:41 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Crossing warning signs, railroad crossings, flooded out roads...
...bicycles, motorcycles, cars, small trucks, medium trucks, large trucks, trains...
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Old 5th November 2018, 09:55 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
"Look right, look left, look right again," is drummed into British kids, even when at full pedestrian crossings. Nobody is taught that they can count on drivers actually obeying the rules, even though they mostly do.

In this particular case, as I noted above, the bus driver apparently gestured to the kids to come to the bus, apparently believing that the truck had plenty of time and distance to stop.
Quote:
The bus driver told police he spotted Shepherd's truck and, believing it was a good distance away, he waved the children across the highway, according to WTTV. He said once he realized the truck was not slowing down, he honked his horn to try and signal the children to turn back.
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/...rd/1846987002/
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Old 6th November 2018, 03:21 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Crossing warning signs, railroad crossings, flooded out roads...
There should be laws against that.
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Old 6th November 2018, 03:27 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
In this particular case, as I noted above, the bus driver apparently gestured to the kids to come to the bus, apparently believing that the truck had plenty of time and distance to stop.
That seems rather a bizarre assumption. I wouldn't cross any road or indicate anyone else to do so unless the traffic was already visibly slowing down, if not actually stopped.
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Old 6th November 2018, 03:47 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
#

This ^^^^

Without detracting from the tragedy, when crossing a road, you look.
Look, Listen and Live.
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Old 6th November 2018, 05:34 AM   #108
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I see it all the time here in NC.

However, it is not the headlight that goes out, it is the daytime running light on that side.

My brother's 2015 Jeep GC turns off the DRL when the turn signal is on, to make the turn signal more visible.

This is done to comply with the visibility rules for the lights.

The LED DRLS in particular, can totally swamp out the turn signal.

Another new thing I am noticing is one light that does 2 or even three colors.
The white DRL strip on some cars, turns yellow and blinks for the turn signal, for example.

And I'm pretty sure I saw a car with just one set of LED panels on the back that turned red/white/yellow as needed.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 6th November 2018, 06:41 AM   #109
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Our school bus driver wouldn't open the doors to let kids out until traffic had come to a stop. I had thought this was standard practice, but maybe in more rural areas this isn't practical. Probably a good move, especially for younger students who shouldn't be relied on to check for traffic every time.
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Old 6th November 2018, 06:42 AM   #110
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So how viable would be to just have school buses only pick up kids on the curb side?
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Old 6th November 2018, 06:52 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
So how viable would be to just have school buses only pick up kids on the curb side?
They do. But sometimes kids would still have to cross the street, or the bus would have to be facing opposite its destination route. In rural areas, u-turning a big bus could take a while
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Old 6th November 2018, 07:10 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
So how viable would be to just have school buses only pick up kids on the curb side?
I say we don't let kids out at all. It's safer that way.
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Old 6th November 2018, 07:23 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Our school bus driver wouldn't open the doors to let kids out until traffic had come to a stop. I had thought this was standard practice, but maybe in more rural areas this isn't practical. Probably a good move, especially for younger students who shouldn't be relied on to check for traffic every time.
In this case the kids were crossing the 55-mph highway in the pre-dawn darkness to board the bus. And I note again that the bus was re-routed through the residential neighborhood immediately after the tragedy, as the parents had been requesting for a long time. This didn't have to happen, and it shouldn't have.

Last edited by Bob001; 6th November 2018 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 7th November 2018, 11:51 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I say we don't let kids out at all. It's safer that way.
A crane with a swing seat. Fun for the kids, and you can lust lift them across the road!
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Old 7th November 2018, 12:50 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It's amazing the amount of rationalisation people will engage in to justify doing whatever the hell they want.

- "Sorry, you can't park here."
- "Yeah, I I'll be right back."

No, the sign doesn't say you can park here if you're right back, jackass.

Oh the "The rules don't apply to me for just a minute" people.

I hate those people.
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Old 8th November 2018, 04:01 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Oh the "The rules don't apply to me for just a minute" people.

I hate those people.
It's OK - I put my hazards on!
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Old 8th November 2018, 05:52 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
It's OK - I put my hazards on!
You mean your parking lights? Put them on and you can park anywhere you want, at least it seems that way near me. Double park, stop in traffic, stop on the sidewalks, stop on bike lanes, anything is possible with parking lights!
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Old 8th November 2018, 09:06 AM   #118
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There's multiple levels of failure here.

- The woman who didn't "realize" it was a school bus.
- The bus driver who waved the kids on before he was sure traffic was stopped.
- The school district for not altering the bus route despite a history of parental complaints over safety.
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Old 8th November 2018, 09:08 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
There's multiple levels of failure here.

- The woman who didn't "realize" it was a school bus.
- The bus driver who waved the kids on before he was sure traffic was stopped.
- The school district for not altering the bus route despite a history of parental complaints over safety.
This. We like to find simple causes to blame, but in reality most of these tragedies are a combination of failed safety checks and poor decisions by multiple parties involved.
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Old 8th November 2018, 10:21 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
You mean your parking lights?
No.
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