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Old 8th November 2018, 02:59 AM   #1
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mass shooting at So Cal bar

Gunman has forced his way into a country western bar popular with college students and shot at least 11 people. Multiple fatalities. Reports he used smokebombs as he entered.
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Old 8th November 2018, 03:04 AM   #2
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Watching CNN news live from the scene. No reported deaths, 11 injured, and police advising that the gunman is "contained" with no specific information as to how he is "contained"


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Old 8th November 2018, 03:31 AM   #3
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BBC are reporting 'multiple fatalities' and say the shooter is confirmed dead.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46135459
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Old 8th November 2018, 03:56 AM   #4
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11 dead. The police officer who tried to enter during the shooting died at the hospital. He was less than a year from retirement.
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Old 8th November 2018, 04:19 AM   #5
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Reports that someone who was in the bar had previously survived the Las Vegas mass shooting. That is where we are in America, someone might have to endure more than one mass shooting incident.
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Old 8th November 2018, 05:50 AM   #6
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Why is this news?

If a country is going to freely allow its citizens to legally arm themselves then it can't complain when some of those people use those guns to shoot others. That is a natural consequence of allowing guns, human nature and probability.

We have the exact same thing here same here in the UK. We have 1/5 of the US population and have a mass shooting about once every 10 years. Obviously we don't arm as many of our citizens as America does but if we did I don't doubt we would have more frequent shootings.

It should be expected and dismissed as the price all sensible gun owners pay for their rights of gun ownership. Collateral damage. Surely the price of a few hundred dead kids a year is a price worth paying to allow Americans the freedom to go to the shooting range a couple of times a year.
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Old 8th November 2018, 05:52 AM   #7
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Now reports saying 13 are dead and that includes the gunman.
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Old 8th November 2018, 06:42 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by San Diego Union-Tribune
Authorities have not disclosed the suspectís name, but a law enforcement source told The Times that he was 29-year-old man armed with a Glock .45 handgun and some type of smoke device.

He drove his motherís car to the attack and said nothing upon entering the bar, the source said.

The gun was purchased in Ventura County, the source said...
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...108-story.html
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:03 AM   #9
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So .. legally purchased ? In California ? Wasn't their gun laws be more restrictive ?
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:06 AM   #10
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California prohibits law-abiding citizens from carrying guns in bars, so this kind of thing was entirely predictable. Liberals and Democrats foolishly disarmed the good guys.
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:20 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
So .. legally purchased ? In California ? Wasn't their gun laws be more restrictive ?
Likely a Glock 21, which is California legal. Probably used illegal standard capacity magazines.
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:23 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
California prohibits law-abiding citizens from carrying guns in bars, so this kind of thing was entirely predictable. Liberals and Democrats foolishly disarmed the good guys.
The police officer who was killed would have had a gun, wouldn't he?
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:38 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
The police officer who was killed would have had a gun, wouldn't he?
And years of training in how to use it, not just the minimum requirement to get a carry permit.
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:39 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
California prohibits law-abiding citizens from carrying guns in bars, so this kind of thing was entirely predictable. Liberals and Democrats foolishly disarmed the good guys.
Many gun friendly states don't allow carrying of guns into bars and nightclubs for the obvious reasons of alcohol and firearms not mixing well. Most nightclubs explicitly forbid guns and some even do gun checks at the door, though this is less to do with mass shootings and more to do with preventing armed bar fights. Hell, the local roller rink I used to go to as a middle schooler had metal detector checks to prevent knives and guns for their late night crowd of rowdy kids.

I wouldn't expect people to be legally armed in most nightclubs in the US unless there is an armed security detail.
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:40 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Many gun friendly states don't allow carrying of guns into bars and nightclubs for the obvious reasons of alcohol and firearms not mixing well
Hell even the NRA is against that.
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:49 AM   #16
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They must know who he is given all the information they have. They just haven't announced or leaked his name. I have not seen any description other than dressed in all black with a hood. No mention of race or physical description that I've seen. More leaks could happen at any time before a press conference and official statement.
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:57 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
They must know who he is given all the information they have. They just haven't announced or leaked his name. I have not seen any description other than dressed in all black with a hood. No mention of race or physical description that I've seen. More leaks could happen at any time before a press conference and official statement.
Incel attack.
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:57 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
The police officer who was killed would have had a gun, wouldn't he?
Yeah, and there was another armed officer there with him. I read that the one cop was shot multiple times. The gunman is dead but it hasn't been announced if it was suicide or if he got shot.
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Old 8th November 2018, 07:59 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
The police officer who was killed would have had a gun, wouldn't he?
That's probably why more aren't dead.
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:00 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
That's probably why more aren't dead.
Sure.

Seems he was a former marine. PTSD?
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:09 AM   #21
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Quote:
The shooter was found dead at the scene from a gunshot wound. Several law enforcement officials identified him as Ian Long, 29.

Law enforcement officials had earlier described him as a heavily tattooed white male. He was armed with a single handgun, was apparently not carrying a driver's license or any other form of ID, Dean said on "Today."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...fornia-n933831

ETA: Seems he was a former marine.

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Old 8th November 2018, 08:10 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Now gives the name as Ian Long.
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:13 AM   #23
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LA Times says that it was a Sheriff's Sergeant and a California Highway Patrol Officer who went in together. They arrived and engaged the shooter 6 minutes after the first 911 call. The gunman did use at least one smoke bomb.

Originally Posted by Los Angeles Times
Several people who escaped the bar described a gunman clad in a black shirt, black hat and black glasses. He seemed to concentrate fire on the front of the venue, where there were several employees as soon as he entered, witnesses said...

Nellie Wong, who was celebrating her 21st birthday on Wednesday night, said she dove to the floor when shots rang out. Wong said she believed that the gunman was dressed in a black hoodie, black shirt and black pants with a scarf obscuring his face and that he threw smoke bombs as he entered...
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...107-story.html
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:16 AM   #24
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Seems like he was going after employees.
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:17 AM   #25
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Quote:
a scarf obscuring his face
Maybe he wanted to escape and try to get away with it by not revealing his face.

Quote:
a heavily tattooed white male
White supremacist?
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:19 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Seems like he was going after employees.
He shot a security guard right away.
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:21 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
He shot a security guard right away.
Maybe the guard confronted him?

It almost sounds like the guy has a beef with the place.

Former employee?

Thrown out/banned?
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:24 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post


White supremacist?
Tattoos are popular among the military.
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:26 AM   #29
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https://www.thv11.com/article/news/n...t/91-612589696

Quote:
Police had not initially identified a motive and did not believe Long targeted any employees at the bar specifically.

Dean said his department had several previous contacts with Long, including a call to his home in April, when deputies found him acting irate and irrationally. The sheriff said a mental health crisis team was called at that time and concluded that Long did not need to be taken into custody.
Mental illness again?
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:27 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Tattoos are popular among the military.
And the population at large.
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:27 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Maybe the guard confronted him?

It almost sounds like the guy has a beef with the place.

Former employee?

Thrown out/banned?
But the number of dead seems too high to be only just employees. I don't know. Maybe he did pick them out one by one. Patrons are going to be roaming and mixed with staff everywhere except for specific employee-only locations.
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:28 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
White supremacist?
TBH - my initial thought when I heard the news of the shooting was that it was a white supremacist upset with the election. When I heard a white male with tattoos, that seemed to bolster my thoughts. But it turns out he was a marine. So that would explain the presence of tattoos (yes, anyone can have tattoos, but for it to have been noted in the report as being heavily tattooed, I expect more than just your normal tattoo).

Not that he can't have been a marine and white supremacists. But, now I'm leaning more towards a marine with PTSD issues.

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Old 8th November 2018, 08:29 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
But the number dead seems too high to be only just employees. I don't know. Maybe he did pick them out one by one. Patrons are going to be roaming and mixed with staff everywhere except for specific employee-only locations.
Apparently he was a victim of battery at another bar back in April. Maybe he just developed a grudge against bars.
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:29 AM   #34
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Just referencing this:

Quote:
He seemed to concentrate fire on the front of the venue, where there were several employees as soon as he entered, witnesses said...
Which could be inaccurate.
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:30 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
But the number of dead seems too high to be only just employees. I don't know. Maybe he did pick them out one by one. Patrons are going to be roaming and mixed with staff everywhere except for specific employee-only locations.
Strategic move, I'd guess. Shoot those closest to you to clear the way and reduce the chance of heros

Six minutes for police response. Very fast, but damned if it couldn't have been worse.
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:37 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
Likely a Glock 21, which is California legal. Probably used illegal standard capacity magazines.
California has 10 round limit even for handguns, right ? That's not much of a restriction for handgun. You just have to swap mags more often. Even the typical 2 mags give you 20 shots, quite enough to a lot of damage. Especially if you can shoot, at this guy clearly could.
And inside the building, the Glock is imho even more potent than AR. Easier to conceal, easier to use in confined space, smaller magazines , you can carry more ammo. It only lacks in barrier penetration, compared to AR, but you are unlikely to find things it can't shoot through in a bar.

Btw. there is really no need to guess what could have been the reason at this moment. Sure, everybody has agenda to push, but that's just that. Simply wait, we'll see.

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Old 8th November 2018, 08:41 AM   #37
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I read that he shot at least 18 times, but I don't know if that's true. He probably reloaded a magazine clip at least once, right? The cop was shot multiple times and I think I read that the security guard was also shot multiple times. That's a lot of bullets and he killed a total of 12 people.
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:45 AM   #38
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How would we already know how many shots he fired?
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:48 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
How would we already know how many shots he fired?
I think I read that it was a witness counting gunshots. Something like "I heard 16 to 18 shots".

But it's not confirmed. He must have used at least 12 shots to kill the 12 people. But two were said to be shot multiple times, so we are at like at least 14 bullets.
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Old 8th November 2018, 08:50 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
How would we already know how many shots he fired?
Counted spent casings or empty magazines on floor minus whatever was still in gun?
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