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15th May 2019, 09:42 AM | #161 |
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Okay, so given the large number of unwanted babies this policy will inevitably produce, when is the increased budget for orphanages, adoption services and childcare going to make it's way through the legislature?
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15th May 2019, 09:45 AM | #162 |
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15th May 2019, 09:46 AM | #163 |
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15th May 2019, 09:50 AM | #164 |
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Sorry, you do realize, I suppose that infants and children at least until puberty if not some time thereafter are not "fully developed" in the mental sense, right? You think it's fallacious to call infanticide murder?
The word murder does not imply those conditions must hold. It simply means "wrongful killing of a person". Now, unless you're suggesting that no killing is wrongful unless those conditions hold, I don't know what you're saying here. |
15th May 2019, 09:52 AM | #165 |
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15th May 2019, 09:55 AM | #166 |
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15th May 2019, 10:12 AM | #167 |
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When my grandmother was diagnosed with a spine injury that needed immediate surgery back in the early 1930's, she was also discovered to be pregnant. The doctors told her that if she carried the baby to term she would almost certainly spend the rest of her life paralyzed and in a wheelchair. She was allowed to have a legal abortion, a rare occurrence in those days. As her life itself was not in danger, I wonder if she would be allowed under AL's new law to have that abortion.
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15th May 2019, 10:42 AM | #168 |
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15th May 2019, 10:45 AM | #169 |
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15th May 2019, 10:47 AM | #170 |
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15th May 2019, 11:00 AM | #171 |
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Who cares? Just so long as the child is birthed into the world, that's all that matters. Once they've been birthed, sorry kid, you're on your own. We're talking about the only 1st world country on the planet that doesn't even legislate maternity/paternity leave nationwide for new parents in order for said new parents to properly bond and care for their newborn infant for the first 0-6 months of its life. ... but in the other corner of their mouths, claim themselves to be holding the moral highground when it comes to 'the sanctity of life' via banning abortions one state at a time. The hypocrisy screams for itself. |
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15th May 2019, 11:03 AM | #172 |
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15th May 2019, 11:07 AM | #173 |
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How anyone can posit that removing from a womb a pea-sized blob that is more a parasite (utterly dependent upon the host/mother) than a human as "murder" baffles me. After all, nature herself terminates no small number of such lumps of developing flesh.
Yes, I'm deliberately rendering as crude my point. But the *potentiality* of a human is not the same as a viable human. Now, we *are* emotional, social creatures, and so identify with and wish to preserve human life from the earliest moment. Who better than the bearer of new life--the woman--to grapple with the momentous decision to terminate a pregnancy? Why does a large fraction of the community feel that they and their laws are the superior arbiter? |
15th May 2019, 11:26 AM | #174 |
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15th May 2019, 11:27 AM | #175 |
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15th May 2019, 11:31 AM | #176 |
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15th May 2019, 11:38 AM | #177 |
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I would take bets that I'm the only one in this thread who has actually read either law, and I would add 10:1 odds that I am the only one who has read both the new bill and the applicable sections of Georgia law that actually determine how the new law might be charged in light of the new bill. But, hey, I'm perfectly willing to be corrected on that subject. You have read both bills haven't you? Along with section 16-5 of Georgia's code of laws, haven't you? |
15th May 2019, 11:39 AM | #178 |
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Because if the state is paying "X" amount before the new law to aide families with dependent children it's reasonable to project that the amount of aide will increase due to the births of children that otherwise would be aborted.
Like everything else, if the state outlaws abortion only folks w/o the financial means to travel out-of-state to seek treatment will be affected by the new law. If someone can't float the cost of a round trip bus ticket it's a pretty good bet they may end up on state assistance. |
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15th May 2019, 11:43 AM | #179 |
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15th May 2019, 11:47 AM | #180 |
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Mother Nature is a murderer. Who knew?
I agree with your post. A pea-sized bunch of cells is not a 'person' any more than a germinated seed is a tomato. "Life" does not a "person" make. Is a fertilized egg that is growing because its chromosomes are splitting 'alive'? Yes, in the strictest sense. But is it a 'person'? Not in my opinion. And therein lies the problem: it's an opinion, not a fact... as are all views on this. |
15th May 2019, 11:51 AM | #181 |
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15th May 2019, 11:53 AM | #182 |
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I think phiwum was making the point that the whole life/freedom comment was over the top hyperbole. It certainly is.
I was making a wry remark that sexual intercourse has always carried great risk for women. What was really in my head was the fact that I had just heard the song, from a poem by Rudyard Kipling, " the female of the species", especially the line "she who faces death by torture for each life beneath her breast". |
15th May 2019, 12:09 PM | #183 |
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Music is what feelings sound like "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus |
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15th May 2019, 12:12 PM | #184 |
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15th May 2019, 12:20 PM | #185 |
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There's no shame in quitting a game that you can't win.
ETA - can someone give me even a hint to a link where the title of this thread makes sense? I found an old article about descending into Gilead, and skimmed through bible gateway, but nothing of significance seemed to have happened there.
Originally Posted by song of solomon
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15th May 2019, 12:24 PM | #186 |
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We were making contrasting points.
Mine was more of a wry comment that sexual intercourse has always been dangerous for women. It was in my head because last night I heard the song "the female of the species", words by Kipling, especially the line "she who faces death by torture for each life beneath her breast." |
15th May 2019, 12:25 PM | #187 |
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15th May 2019, 12:43 PM | #188 |
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15th May 2019, 12:44 PM | #189 |
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15th May 2019, 12:56 PM | #190 |
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Thanks2. I am not at all upset that google's algorithm is smart enough to know that I don't want to know about that show. She was great in Mad Men, though.
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15th May 2019, 01:03 PM | #191 |
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15th May 2019, 01:29 PM | #192 |
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Alabama falls into 6th place nationwide for unwed mothers. 9th place for teen birth rates. 3rd place for low birthweight rates (indicating poor prenatal healthcare by either the state medical system or the mother or both). And falls into 5th place for federal funding assistance.
Maybe their aim is to take 1st place in all of these categories? I'm curious, will the State of Alabama be paying for all of the prenatal care for these women being forced to carry a pregnancy? - Prenatal vitamins and supplements? - Doctor/Ob-Gyn visits? - Travel costs to and from the doctors office? - Medical treatment for any complications that may arise during pregnancy (ie: gestational diabetes, high blood pressure, toxemia, pre-clampsia, etc)? - The costs for potential physiotherapy if needed (pinched spine, hip displacement, etc)? - The option for Lamaze classes? - Pregnancy clothing? Or should they just ask to borrow their fat neighbour's yoga pants? - Higher grocery bills due to higher food consumption and the need for healthier (thus costlier) food choices? - The cost of delivering in a proper medical facility? The extra costs should a c-section be needed? The extra costs should an emergency D&C be needed? - Wage losses due to a complicated pregnancy (excessive morning sickness, debilitating fatigue, ill health, etc), the amount of time to give birth (6-36 hours), and the individual mother's recovery time (1-30 days)? ... and then there's the post-natal healthcare for the mother, for the baby. Or has Alabama not thought this all through yet? |
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15th May 2019, 01:35 PM | #193 |
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15th May 2019, 01:57 PM | #194 |
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Were I religious, I'd reckon anybody who died afore there was a "me" there – before there was a mind that was aware – well, then... nobody's soul could go worship Jesus* in Heaven! Stands to reason, with all the depth of thought any mail-order preacher could handle. So, uh, wuts the fuss?
*Spelled "Geez, us!" in US red states. |
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15th May 2019, 02:24 PM | #195 |
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It's not hogwash.
I can see a scenario where nosey neighbor calls the police on Suzie next door who went to California to get an abortion. Wasn't there an attempt a few years back to force Planned Parenthood to release records so some police could review them looking for illegal abortions? I'm trying to remember the details so I can look it up. |
15th May 2019, 02:30 PM | #196 |
Nasty Woman
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How about believing the actual laws that are being passed.
Bill to Outlaw Miscarriages Enrages Left
Quote:
Quote:
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15th May 2019, 02:32 PM | #197 |
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15th May 2019, 02:35 PM | #198 |
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15th May 2019, 02:46 PM | #199 |
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You do know there are more than two states with these laws going through the state legislatures, right?
In addition, you are assuming all kinds of things like a perfect prosecution, no costs incurred defending one's natural miscarriage, no zealous prosecutor charging a woman based on all sorts of nonsense like smoking cigarettes while pregnant. These states are passing religious extremist laws and you act like they will suddenly be rational enforcing them. |
15th May 2019, 02:57 PM | #200 |
Nasty Woman
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Those votes you are counting as the "vast majority" are the legislators, many no doubt from gerrymandered state districts.
What is your stance on abortion? - Results from Alabama voters
Quote:
USA Today: 25 men voted to ban abortion in Alabama. Do they reflect the rest of America?
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I hope it backfires. |
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