ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags police issues , police misconduct charges

Reply
Old 4th May 2018, 04:25 AM   #401
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 18,080
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
None of the officers involved who filed false reports are being disciplined in any fashion. Apparently the general belief among them is that such egregious behavior by another officer isn't worth mentioning. And apparently their supervisors agree.

Ah yes, the problem is the 'good' officers, who are still complicit in abuse of power. It's so clearly institutional. Given the number of abuses of police power that come to light due to video evidence the police weren't aware of and the utter dearth of abuses of power brought to light due to the reports of other officers, I can only assume that, in some forces, there's no such thing as a 'good' officer. They're all complicit. If they aren't it seems, then they are either passed over for promotion or plain just drummed out of the force.

The rate at which uniformed officers report the abuses of their colleagues does not match the rate at which uniformed officers abuse their power.
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th May 2018, 04:30 AM   #402
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 23,877
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
<snip>

“These trends mark significant changes,” said Geoff Alpert, a professor in the Department of Criminology and Criminal Justice at the University of South Carolina who has been reviewing and studying the data at The Post’s request. “What we don’t understand yet is what’s causing these numbers to move downward.”...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...4c7_story.html[/quote]


I have to think that the ubiquity of personal cameras is starting to have an effect.

Body cams and dash cams are helping, but there still seems to be a puzzling rate of "equipment malfunctions" when those are the only (known) record of an incident. (Oddly enough, they seem to function much more dependably when the footage supports the cops' versions of events. Go figure.)

It is starting to sink in (Mebbe the fact that they are more often wearing cameras of their own makes them more sensitive to the possibility that others may be around.) that everyone around them who has a smart phone also has a camera, and that nearly everyone around them has a smart phone.

People are getting much better at using those cameras, and doing so quickly. Maybe we owe Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, etc. a vote of gratitude for helping to prime the general public with this sort of ability and reaction. There isn't all that much difference between being quick to record a friend doing something silly and a cop doing something evil. Only the subject is different.

I think it might be the equivalent of red-light cameras, only for cops.

Just like speeders can't be sure if there is a working camera at any given intersection, at least until the ticket comes in the mail, the cops can't be sure that their misbehavior isn't being recorded for posterity by someone they may not even know is there.

The problems of institutional protection of bad cops still remains, and the arrogance which is supported by that, the sense of invulnerability to any accounting for their actions.

But it's getting harder to pretend that nothing happened, at least.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

Last edited by quadraginta; 4th May 2018 at 04:37 AM.
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2018, 02:24 AM   #403
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,065
I agree. Whilst cops know they are pretty much safe from prosecution, the deterrent is having their name and face splashed over the media, from you tube to the news to even Wikipedia entries that will last a lifetime.

I suspect it is scary for cops (and their families) to be known as someone who shot and killed an unarmed black person. They may have to watch their backs for the rest of their lives.

Furthermore, killing another is only an insignificant event to psychopaths. Most cops are not that and will be affected. If the event is on film, the cop cannot then try and invent a version whereby he was under genuine threat as he can be reminded of what really happened, by being shown the video.
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic

Last edited by Nessie; 5th May 2018 at 02:25 AM.
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th May 2018, 10:56 AM   #404
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,126
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I agree. Whilst cops know they are pretty much safe from prosecution, the deterrent is having their name and face splashed over the media, from you tube to the news to even Wikipedia entries that will last a lifetime.

I suspect it is scary for cops (and their families) to be known as someone who shot and killed an unarmed black person. They may have to watch their backs for the rest of their lives.

Furthermore, killing another is only an insignificant event to psychopaths. Most cops are not that and will be affected. If the event is on film, the cop cannot then try and invent a version whereby he was under genuine threat as he can be reminded of what really happened, by being shown the video.
You underestimate the human mind.

This all sounds great, so long as the cop becomes a pariah in his community. The problem is, "the community" is the Fraternal Order of Police, the Unions, the guys at the precinct/central bookings/whatever, and so forth. It may also be their neighborhood, where cops from all around live. What it usually *isn't*, though, is the friends and family of the person s/he killed. And as we've seen, it's very easy for one to justify a shooting, if one has a network of unquestioning support in place. Hell, even the cop who shot Michael Brown made up a story about how Brown "Bulked up" and ran through bullets like the Juggernaut from the X-Men - and I still think that may well have been a justified shooting. Now, think about Officer Barrel Roll, the guys that killed Freddie Gray, the folks that stuffed Kalief Browder in Rikers for years for no good reason. OR for that matter, that Arizona cop that killed the white guy for Failure to Hokey-Pokey. I'm pretty sure most of them can rest easy at night.

I'll repeat something that people say - the saying is that a few bad apples spoil the bunch. And I'll repeat with Michael Wood Jr. retorts - it's the barrel that's rotten, not the apples. Those cameras help - sometimes. But very often, they don't. The cops that murdered John Crawford III, Eric Garner, Tamir Rice, and on and on - if they're such pariahs, tell me, without looking them up, what their names are.

Last edited by Mumbles; 6th May 2018 at 10:58 AM.
Mumbles is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th May 2018, 12:26 PM   #405
Stacko
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
Here's the NYPD Sergeant Benevolent Association losing it on a group raising awareness of Fourth Amendment rights.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th May 2018, 12:46 PM   #406
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 21,347
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
I read that but it didn't compute.

How can anyone say there isn't a systemic problem when police associations respond like that.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th May 2018, 01:40 PM   #407
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,872
Off-duty police officer pulls a gun in a service station on man he mistakenly suspected of stealing a packet of mints.

No wonder the police have shot more than 300 people already this year.

Is this acceptable procedure?


https://www.ocregister.com/2018/05/0...ealing-mentos/
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2018, 12:15 AM   #408
Arcade22
Philosopher
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,501
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Off-duty police officer pulls a gun in a service station on man he mistakenly suspected of stealing a packet of mints.

No wonder the police have shot more than 300 people already this year.

Is this acceptable procedure?


https://www.ocregister.com/2018/05/0...ealing-mentos/
Saw the video of that on the Washington Post. This guy is a menace. He should at least be fired, be prohibited from possessing and owning a gun.

Even if he was correct and the guy stole a pack of mentos, drawing his gun is completely utterly and absolutely irresponsible in every sense possible. This cop went completely backwards in how to properly escalate the threat and use of force: he effectively began with threatening to shoot and potentially kill him (over a pack of mentos!) even-though the suspected criminal hadn't given any indication of being a threat to life and limb, and then worked backwards to handle the situation with talking.

Pro tip: talking can solve a lot of things.
__________________
We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr

Last edited by Arcade22; 7th May 2018 at 12:24 AM.
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2018, 05:56 AM   #409
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,126
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Saw the video of that on the Washington Post. This guy is a menace. He should at least be fired, be prohibited from possessing and owning a gun.

Even if he was correct and the guy stole a pack of mentos, drawing his gun is completely utterly and absolutely irresponsible in every sense possible. This cop went completely backwards in how to properly escalate the threat and use of force: he effectively began with threatening to shoot and potentially kill him (over a pack of mentos!) even-though the suspected criminal hadn't given any indication of being a threat to life and limb, and then worked backwards to handle the situation with talking.

Pro tip: talking can solve a lot of things.
And even though he said "I'm a police officer", I'm...not seeing a badge anywhere. Or a uniform. You know, things that show that you're and actual cop, whereas a gun just shows you to be a violent threat.

That may be why the clerk didn't speak up - or maybe the guy just kinda froze.
Mumbles is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th May 2018, 09:10 AM   #411
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 21,347
Something from some time ago that is still having an effect today

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ction=Trending

Quote:
Sheriff’s deputies were also contacted by the woman whose boyfriend was a convicted murderer, recently released from prison, whom she suspected of involvement in the Ryen killings. She not only gave deputies his bloody coveralls but also told them that his hatchet was missing from his tool rack and resembled one of the weapons reportedly used in the attacks.

But instead of testing the coveralls for the Ryens’ blood, the deputies threw them away–and pursued Cooper. After a racially charged trial, he was convicted of murdering the Ryens and Chris Hughes and is now on death row at San Quentin Prison.

Gov. Jerry Brown is refusing to allow advanced DNA testing that might finally resolve the question of who committed the murders, even though Cooper’s defense would pay for it. Brown refuses to allow even advanced testing of the blond or brown hairs that were found in the victims’ hands.
This is still shocking.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st June 2018, 01:08 PM   #412
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 21,347
Meanwhile a 2014 video from Portland - with a happy ending

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


It is worth watching the cops shake the hands of the skateborders at the end too.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd June 2018, 02:31 AM   #413
Shadowdweller
Muse
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 805
Here's another video with a happy ending. As in disgusting police negligence, which the department continues to deny, but at least the guy survived. Been following off and on.
Shadowdweller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd June 2018, 09:27 AM   #414
deadrose
Illuminator
 
deadrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: the wet side of the mountains
Posts: 3,176
Unfortunately that's very typical for KCSO and SPD.
deadrose is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd June 2018, 02:29 PM   #415
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 6,805
Antwon Rose - shot in the back while running away. Video in the link below.

https://thegrio.com/2018/06/22/5-things-antwon-rose/

Presumably nothing will happen arising from this, but it's worth a look anyway.
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd June 2018, 03:20 PM   #416
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 23,877
Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Antwon Rose - shot in the back while running away. Video in the link below.

https://thegrio.com/2018/06/22/5-things-antwon-rose/

Presumably nothing will happen arising from this, but it's worth a look anyway.

"His back was to 'em."

"He was obviously running for his gun. Clearly self-defense."
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2018, 08:31 AM   #417
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,872
"You’re going to jail" Officer fired for abuse of power after pulling over daughter’s boyfriend

When makai Coleman asked why he was being detained, his girlfriends police officer father threatened to make charges up "as we go"


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...rs-boyfriend/?
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2018, 09:11 AM   #418
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,126
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
"His back was to 'em."

"He was obviously running for his gun. Clearly self-defense."
The question is: what on earth possessed him to shoot a person for running away, so soon after starting his job? Even the "Well cops deal with the worst people all the time" crap simply doesn't work reasonably here.

(I mean, I know why, I've said it again and again, and so have many others...)
Mumbles is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2018, 01:52 PM   #419
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 23,877
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
The question is: what on earth possessed him to shoot a person for running away, so soon after starting his job? Even the "Well cops deal with the worst people all the time" crap simply doesn't work reasonably here.

(I mean, I know why, I've said it again and again, and so have many others...)

He was running away. That's proof he must have been guilty of something. Probably something violent. And thuggish.

It was imperative for the safety of the community that he be shot in the back.

And anyway, the cop probably "felt threatened". That means it's okay to kill the kid.

The law is very clear on that. Don't you follow the news?
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2018, 07:28 AM   #420
isissxn
Rough Around the Edges
 
isissxn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Deep Storage
Posts: 6,072
Antwon Rose was shot in my city, and while the protests haven't reached national news levels by any means, there has been quite a bit of chaos. Groups of marching protesters shut down roads several times, and there was some sort of confusing incident involving a car driving into a crowd of them on (I think) Friday. It was never made clear if the protesters were waylaying the car or if its driver was attacking them. I haven't heard any follow-up. No one was injured, but it certainly got everybody's hackles up.

Three of my more radical acquaintances have been arrested, I hear. I think a lot of people have been arrested. I doubt most of them will get much more than a wrist-slap.

But yeah, people here are very upset.

Last edited by isissxn; 25th June 2018 at 07:38 AM. Reason: missed a word
isissxn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2018, 08:20 AM   #421
Myriad
Hyperthetical
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: A pocket paradise between the sewage treatment plant and the railroad
Posts: 15,251
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
The question is: what on earth possessed him to shoot a person for running away, so soon after starting his job? Even the "Well cops deal with the worst people all the time" crap simply doesn't work reasonably here.

(I mean, I know why, I've said it again and again, and so have many others...)

The cop was newly sworn in to that police department, but he had eight years of experience with other PDs.

This case and subsequent events (including the funeral today) are being reported fairly thoroughly in the Philadelphia area (same state) even if it hasn't made the national news.

The car that was stopped matched the description of a car seen leaving the scene of a nearby shooting a few minutes earlier, including having bullet damage to its rear window. There's a pretty good chance it was the actual car, and that the occupants and the two guns found inside the car were involved in that shooting. However, the driver was not taken into custody after being questioned, so who knows? (And that's the police version of the story, which may or may not be truthful.) In any case, of course, none of that justifies shooting a fleeing suspect in the back.

In a sane non-racist world, we would be comparably appalled by both of the unjustified shootings that took place that night. Which victim died and which went to the hospital instead was almost certainly a matter of marksmanship and/or pure chance, not differing intent. But we have to deal with the world we're in instead.
__________________
A zÝmbie once bit my sister...

Last edited by Myriad; 25th June 2018 at 08:22 AM.
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th June 2018, 03:43 PM   #422
Stacko
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
At least this was a taser and not a gun.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th June 2018, 09:25 AM   #423
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,065
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
At least is was. It is weird the way the police get suspects to do all sorts of movements as if they undergoing a sobriety test and they they fire at them if they get it wrong.
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th June 2018, 09:29 AM   #424
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
 
Dave Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 29,455
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
At least is was. It is weird the way the police get suspects to do all sorts of movements as if they undergoing a sobriety test and they they fire at them if they get it wrong.
Oh, come on. He was obviously drawing his feet back just before the tasing; clearly he was planning to get his feet underneath him and leap backwards so as to knock the police officer out with the back of his head. Fortunately the police officer had seen plenty of kung fu movies training videos and spotted the move before he could complete it.

Dave
__________________
Inspiring discussion of Sharknado is not a good sign for the audience expectations of your new high-concept SF movie sequel.

- Myriad
Dave Rogers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th June 2018, 12:32 PM   #425
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 21,347
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
At least is was. It is weird the way the police get suspects to do all sorts of movements as if they undergoing a sobriety test and they they fire at them if they get it wrong.
I look forward to the apologetics for this one. Dave Rogers probably went for one that is too plausible.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th June 2018, 02:33 PM   #426
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 23,877
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I look forward to the apologetics for this one. Dave Rogers probably went for one that is too plausible.

He was sitting on the curb following all the directions given by the cops ... in a threatening manner.

Obviously the officer was in fear for his own safety. Any reasonable person could see that.

Alternatively, the cop hadn't had a chance to use his taser on anyone for a while, and figured it needed a workout to keep it in tip-top shape.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

Last edited by quadraginta; 29th June 2018 at 02:34 PM.
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th June 2018, 02:53 PM   #427
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,815
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I look forward to the apologetics for this one. Dave Rogers probably went for one that is too plausible.
They probably won't be along unless a separate thread is made, at which point one of the first responses would be to complain about the existence of a new thread.
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2018, 02:15 AM   #428
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,065
It must be horrible living in a society where literally one minor move can result in extreme force being used against you.

The police in Scotland are desperate to have most police armed with tazers, despite all statistics showing a huge reduction in violent crime (the police's own stats included). Weirdly, assault on the police are allegedly rising. No one can explain why that is, why is a less violent society assaulting its police officers more? Or is it?

I just fear a similar situation developing here, whereby overly aggressive police are looking for any old excuse to fire a tazer at someone.
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd July 2018, 06:55 AM   #429
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,126
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
"Straighten your legs."

"cross your legs."

To me, these are two opposing commands. When I think of sitting on the ground with legs crossed, I think of what used to be called "sitting Indian style" around here. And that's what dude was trying to do when they tased him for no reason.

Perhaps they should have said "Legs straight, one ankle over the other," if that's what they meant.

ETA: Worth noting, tasers are not actually "nonlethal" weapons, as people have been killed by them before. They're much less lethal than a gun, but still not to be used in a hissy fit because someone has no idea what you want.

Last edited by Mumbles; 2nd July 2018 at 06:56 AM.
Mumbles is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd July 2018, 07:37 AM   #430
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 47,452
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
It must be horrible living in a society where literally one minor move can result in extreme force being used against you.

The police in Scotland are desperate to have most police armed with tazers, despite all statistics showing a huge reduction in violent crime (the police's own stats included). Weirdly, assault on the police are allegedly rising. No one can explain why that is, why is a less violent society assaulting its police officers more? Or is it?

I just fear a similar situation developing here, whereby overly aggressive police are looking for any old excuse to fire a tazer at someone.
Well it is not that bad for american police, they could have set a dog on him, that is always good for a laugh.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd July 2018, 02:08 PM   #431
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,872
A Navy veteran with a valid concealed carry permit was fatally shot by Portland State University police on Friday when he went to pick up his handgun, which slipped from its holster as he tried to break up a fight.

https://www.opb.org/news/article/por...rik-washington
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd July 2018, 04:37 PM   #432
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,183
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
A Navy veteran with a valid concealed carry permit was fatally shot by Portland State University police on Friday when he went to pick up his handgun, which slipped from its holster as he tried to break up a fight.

https://www.opb.org/news/article/por...rik-washington
Bad from the cops, but seriously, who would get voluntarily any near a physical confrontation if you had a gun on you, permit or no permit?

That is just asking for trouble
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd July 2018, 05:18 PM   #433
deadrose
Illuminator
 
deadrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: the wet side of the mountains
Posts: 3,176
Possibly because the city was full of Proud Boys and other white nationalists and supremacists who were carrying? This is one of the effects of having an armed society.

Funny, in those ancient times when I grew up, the ones the Right claim to miss so much, you never saw people walking around with weapons unless they were coming or going from a hunting trip. People who stockpiled weapons or answered the door holding a shotgun were considered dangerous loonies.
deadrose is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd July 2018, 05:23 AM   #434
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,873
The behavior of a police officer in Killeen TX.
http://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Kil...486994721.html
Quote:
Earlier this week, Killeen police officers Joshua Plowick and Stephanie Bragg met 11 year old Mychael, he was at home with his litter sister.

Mychael had called police after a stranger had knocked on his door.

He was able to tell the officers where he lived and who was with him.

He even stayed on the phone with the 911 dispatcher until both officers arrived.

Police are reminding parents, they should always tell their kids to never open the door to strangers and never be afraid to call for help.
That's my daughter (middle) in the photo.

Ranb
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd July 2018, 06:16 AM   #435
Rolfe
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
 
Rolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 43,421
Quote:
... he was at home with his litter sister.

They were twins?
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.
Rolfe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd July 2018, 12:11 PM   #436
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,873
Yeah, the writer of that article needs to take a second look. My daughter's name was spelled incorrectly in one paragraph and correctly in the other.
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd July 2018, 10:32 PM   #437
Shadowdweller
Muse
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 805
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
That's my daughter (middle) in the photo.

Ranb
Is there more to the story besides some kids calling the police because some random stranger dared knock on their door?
Shadowdweller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th July 2018, 07:33 AM   #438
Wolrab
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,543
Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
Is there more to the story besides some kids calling the police because some random stranger dared knock on their door?
Not only does a proud parent and forum member get to show off a bit, it demonstrates the behavior of the vast majority of police officers in the US. What more needs to be in the story?
__________________
"Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov
Wolrab is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th July 2018, 08:29 AM   #439
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 21,347
Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Not only does a proud parent and forum member get to show off a bit, it demonstrates the behavior of the vast majority of police officers in the US. What more needs to be in the story?
Which is why the current US setup is so unfair to the vast majority of US police officers, as they are all tainted.

Similarly, see my previous youtube video, which is also a feelgood story from 2014 when a racist calls the cops on a black skateboarder in a multiracial group.

I could watch it again, because the resoponse of the cops, and their conversation with the skateborders at the end was *highly* appropriate.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th July 2018, 12:14 PM   #440
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,873
Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
Is there more to the story besides some kids calling the police because some random stranger dared knock on their door?
I think that's it.
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:17 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.