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Old 14th August 2019, 06:10 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I didn't ask you for research. This is the fourth time that I tell you that I don't require scientific evidence from you.

You're stalling. You have only faith, no evidence, and you know that any attempt by you to provide evidence would reveal this. So stop pretending that there's actual research that proves your faith. Just take it as faith, and leave the rest of us who don't operate on childish belief in magic to our own.
So tell me why you don't believe it? How did you come to these conclusions?
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Old 14th August 2019, 06:13 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
So tell me why you don't believe it? How did you come to these conclusions?
I don't believe for the exact same reason you won't provide evidence: there isn't any.
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Old 14th August 2019, 06:20 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I don't believe for the exact same reason you won't provide evidence: there isn't any.
research for yourself that you will find evidence! research for yourself that you will find evidence! With perseverance you will even find proof! first rationalism and then empiricism to confirm this reality!
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Old 14th August 2019, 06:22 AM   #84
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*Throws popcorn at the screen* Boo! Boo! This movie is poorly made and derivative!

It's just the bad version of a movie that wasn't that good to begin with. It's like the Asylum knock-off version of Transformers.
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Old 14th August 2019, 06:26 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
https://issmpi.org/ contact these researchers ... I'm not a researcher!
Why should god go to them or anyone?
If they want the truth, they should come to me.
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Old 14th August 2019, 06:41 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
I am not a researcher! Do you want evidence? Contact researchers! here is the site...

Can you summarize in your own words what the researchers on that site are claiming to have found about the afterlife?

If you can, but you're not willing to bother, that suggests that their findings are not very important, even to you. If you cannot, then that suggests that they haven't made any claims of any findings coherent enough to discuss. So, please, make an effort.

Can you at least say what ISSMPI stands for?
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Old 14th August 2019, 06:44 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
research for yourself that you will find evidence!
It's not my job to prove your claim, and I have no need to believe in your god. The fact that no one has ever managed to find evidence for God and present it in a convincing way, and the fact that you yourself are shirking away from that responsibility vis-à-vis your claim, shows that me doing what you are suggesting would be a waste of time.

Either present evidence directly or admit that you have none.
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Old 14th August 2019, 06:45 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*Throws popcorn at the screen* Boo! Boo! This movie is poorly made and derivative!

It's just the bad version of a movie that wasn't that good to begin with. It's like the Asylum knock-off version of Transformers.
You're refering to Transmorphers, right? At least that was a clever attempt to sell DVDs via sheer confusion.
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Old 14th August 2019, 06:47 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Can you summarize in your own words what the researchers on that site are claiming to have found about the afterlife?

If you can, but you're not willing to bother, that suggests that their findings are not very important, even to you. If you cannot, then that suggests that they haven't made any claims of any findings coherent enough to discuss. So, please, make an effort.

Can you at least say what ISSMPI stands for?
Unholy mother of hell! I clicked on the link and, even moreso than expected, it's a cheap woo site. It doesn't even try to appear respectable and objective.
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Old 14th August 2019, 06:55 AM   #90
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Why do guys like this always skip over the possibility of positive nihilism?

You can posit ‘if nothing matters why not be great’ just as easily as ‘if nothing matters why not be awful.’
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Old 14th August 2019, 06:58 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Unholy mother of hell! I clicked on the link and, even moreso than expected, it's a cheap woo site. It doesn't even try to appear respectable and objective.
Yeah, I rate it at a couple of hundred millitimecubes.

Dave
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Old 14th August 2019, 06:59 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Lithrael View Post
Why do guys like this always skip over the possibility of positive nihilism?

You can posit ‘if nothing matters why not be great’ just as easily as ‘if nothing matters why not be awful.’
A good point, though I'd propose that if nothing matters, it's just not worth doing anything, which I would think would result in worse than good.
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Old 14th August 2019, 07:04 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
A good point, though I'd propose that if nothing matters, it's just not worth doing anything, which I would think would result in worse than good.
As counter-evidence, I'd like to advance the concept of hobbies; things that are in no objective sense worth doing (at least, mine aren't), yet which people strive to carry out to the best possible level. The things we feel we need to do are often very different to the things we want to, and if all that's left is what we want to do, sometimes we can do very well indeed.

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Old 14th August 2019, 07:19 AM   #94
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The OP didn't promote nihilism; positive or negative, it just promoted gibberish.
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Old 14th August 2019, 07:27 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
A good point, though I'd propose that if nothing matters, it's just not worth doing anything, which I would think would result in worse than good.
That depends on what kind of ‘nothing matters’ we’re on. I mean, cosmic level, nothing matters anyway, but that’s not going to bother any honest monkey. If we’re on op’s ‘nothing matters’ because it’s ending soon, how soon matters a lot as far as what’s still worth doing, and then if it’s not just a thought exercise, how do you know for sure?

If it’s ending tomorrow I’m just going to the beach. Worst case scenario it doesn’t actually end and I apologize to the boss for skipping work cause I thought it was the apocalypse.
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Old 14th August 2019, 07:58 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
https://issmpi.org/ contact these researchers ... I'm not a researcher!
Oh, so you don't know ? I thought so ..

And here I thought there is actually going to be some discussion ..

Last edited by Dr.Sid; 14th August 2019 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 14th August 2019, 09:39 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
There is a vast literature on the subject! but it is not official science. Official science and its scientific method have their limitations, not forgetting the politicization of science. The revelation of this truth can harm many interests.

There is a vast literature on Don Quijote. Do you believe he was real?

What about Bilbo and Frodo, are they real?

If you believe you can produce evidence of paranormal or supernatural phenomena, you can win US $100,000. Look up "Independent Investigations Group challenge".
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Old 14th August 2019, 10:16 AM   #98
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I believe in science ... science in the future ... will discover and reveal the afterlife !!
https://www.express.co.uk/news/scien...e-soul-quantum
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Old 14th August 2019, 10:21 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
I believe in science ... science in the future ... will discover and reveal the afterlife !!
https://www.express.co.uk/news/scien...e-soul-quantum
Still waiting for your evidence or strong arguments.
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Old 14th August 2019, 10:27 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Still waiting for your evidence or strong arguments.
In the scientific field, here is the first criticism against reincarnation: it cannot happen because the material world is all that exists. According to this view, consciousness is merely the result of brain functioning and does not exist independently of it. Therefore, consciousness ceases when the brain dies. Scientists say things are like this, either because the idea of ​​survival after death conflicts so much with what we know about the materialistic nature of the world, or because there is no proof that it happens. Recently some respected, mostly physical, scientists have ventured hypotheses in various fields that, taken together, challenge this materialist denial of consciousness as a mere insignificant byproduct of a functioning brain. Different groups have argued that we should separate consciousness from the brain, that modern physics can incorporate paranormal phenomena and even consciousness is an essential part of the universe. While none of these arguments deal directly with reincarnation, we will see that they can be part of a new broad view of the universe in which consciousness plays a key role, rather than just a despicable byproduct of the brain. Such an understanding may perhaps lead to the idea that an independently functioning consciousness becomes part of our scientific knowledge. The concept that consciousness can be regarded as separate from the brain has in many ways occupied the heart of the reincarnation problem for a long time. time. Descartes developed the concept of dualism in the seventeenth century to separate the mind - the world of thoughts - from matter, including the brain. In terms of this concept, he proposed that an immaterial sphere, that of thoughts, coexisted with a material sphere.
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Old 14th August 2019, 10:31 AM   #101
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If the immaterial mind is separated from brain matter, we are grappling with the question of whether it can continue to exist after the brain dies. Many orthodox scientists find the idea that the immaterial substance of mind can interact with the brain is absurd. brain matter and some even go so far as to say that the concept of dualism violates known laws of physics. If the mind affects the body, then it must modify a physical entity, that is, brain cells, without the physical energy or mass associated with it. Such a modification requires an energy expenditure. Since there is no source of energy available, the process would violate the principle of conservation. As one critic wrote: “This confrontation between traditional physics and dualism has been endlessly discussed since the time of Descartes, and has been seen as the unavoidable and fatal defect of dualistic view.” To this the physicist Henry Stapp replied: “The argument depends to identify 'traditional physics' with nineteenth-century physics. But it comes down to contemporary physics, [...] according to which conscious effort can influence brain activity without violating the laws of physics. Contemporary physical theory admits, and in its orthodox form von Neumann presupposes, an interactive dualism. ”In terms of its model, consciousness is capable of producing effects while being“ fully compatible with all known laws of physics, including that of energy conservation ”. When he says "contemporary physics," he refers to quantum mechanics, which is the microscopic understanding of the material world of molecules, atoms, and subatomic particles. Similarly, Nobel laureate neuroscientist John C. Eccles came up with a dualistic solution to the problem. He and quantum physicist Friedrich Beck hypothetically constructed a device, according to quantum mechanics, that shows how the mind can act on the brain without violating conservation laws: mental intent would affect the brain by increasing the odds of releasing chemicals. neurotransmitters, for nerve cell synapses. In the area of ​​physics and paranormal phenomena, some physicists have contested the idea that the two are incompatible. Elizabeth Rauscher and Russell Targ explained that the usual four dimensions of time and space do not support the incorporation of the findings of parapsychological research, but that the geometric spacetime model known as the “complex Minkowski space” can be used successfully to describe the great discoveries of parapsychology. On the other hand, O. Costa de Beauregard has even denied that the idea of ​​geometric spacetime is necessary to explain psychic phenomena. He stated that the occurrence of paranormal phenomena is clearly implicit in theoretical physics and that precognition, telepathy and psychokinesis are allowed. by your laws. Indeed, he wrote that “far from being 'unreasonable', the paranormal is postulated by contemporary physics.” Brian Josephson, Nobel laureate in physics, generated controversy by contributing a short article to the booklet that accompanied a series of postage stamps. Britain by Royal Mail to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the Nobel Prizes. In it, he wrote that quantum theory was now being combined with theories of information and computing, "developments that may in future explain processes not yet understood by conventional science, such as telepathy." In the long run, he added, phenomena such as telepathy and mind-matter interactions, to be discussed in passing, will eventually be accepted and confirmed by science.
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Old 14th August 2019, 10:40 AM   #102
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Regarding the importance of consciousness in the universe, experiments have shown that, in the case of subatomic particles, several realities can be present at the same time, until observation restricts them to a single possibility. This may be a difficult concept to understand, so here's an example. In the classic “double-slot” experiment, light particles or photons act as waves that appear to spread and advance through two slots at the same time unless physicists install detectors next to the slots to record each passing photon. . In this case, the photon advances through one slot or another, but not both, thus implying that detection forces photons to follow one path or another.John Wheeler, an important physicist who, among countless achievements, named the black holes , extended this concept to demonstrate how conscious observers of the present can affect past events. He devised an experiment to show that the measures now taken by astronomers on Earth are capable of affecting the path of a particle of light emanating from a distant quasar, followed for billions of years before astronomers made their observations. Later the experiment was demonstrated in principle in the laboratory. Wheeler thinks that, at the quantum level, the universe is a work in progress where not only the future has not been determined but the past is not yet, conscious observers can help select one of the many possible quantum pasts to the universe. Andrei Linde, a physicist at Stanford University, goes even further: he claims that conscious observers are an essential part of the universe. In his words: “I cannot imagine a consistent theory of the whole [the goal of physics to arrive at a unified theory. that explains both the large-scale universe of gravity and relativity and the small-scale universe of quantum mechanics] that ignores consciousness. ”When we combine the ideas of these well-respected scientists - that we must regard consciousness as something separate from the brain, that Modern physics can be employed to explain paranormal phenomena and that consciousness is an essential part of the universe - we get a view of consciousness very different from its materialistic negation. According to this thesis, consciousness is an essential and independent force in the universe, being the parapsychological effects that it can produce consistent with the current position of physics. If this view is correct, we should be able, beyond what our cases provide, to find evidence in support of the idea of ​​a consciousness functioning independently of the brain. Life Before Life Copyright © 2005 Jim B. Tucker Want more proof please contact this site .. http://www.jimbtucker.com/
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Old 14th August 2019, 10:51 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
Limitations of the Scientific Method
Clearly, the scientific method is a powerful tool, but it does have its limitations. These limitations are based on the fact that a hypothesis must be testable and falsifiable and that experiments and observations be repeatable. This places certain topics beyond the reach of the scientific method. Science cannot prove or refute the existence of God or any other supernatural entity. Sometimes, scientific principles are used to try to lend credibility to certain nonscientific ideas

You missed the words “such as intelligent design” off the end of that last sentence.

https://science.howstuffworks.com/in...c-method10.htm

By the way, it isn’t really acceptable to copy and paste stuff from elsewhere without indicating the source that you are quoting from.
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Old 14th August 2019, 10:52 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
In the scientific field, here is the first criticism against reincarnation: it cannot happen because the material world is all that exists. According to this view, consciousness is merely the result of brain functioning and does not exist independently of it. Therefore, consciousness ceases when the brain dies. Scientists say things are like this, either because the idea of ​​survival after death conflicts so much with what we know about the materialistic nature of the world, or because there is no proof that it happens. Recently some respected, mostly physical, scientists have ventured hypotheses in various fields that, taken together, challenge this materialist denial of consciousness as a mere insignificant byproduct of a functioning brain. Different groups have argued that we should separate consciousness from the brain, that modern physics can incorporate paranormal phenomena and even consciousness is an essential part of the universe. While none of these arguments deal directly with reincarnation, we will see that they can be part of a new broad view of the universe in which consciousness plays a key role, rather than just a despicable byproduct of the brain. Such an understanding may perhaps lead to the idea that an independently functioning consciousness becomes part of our scientific knowledge. The concept that consciousness can be regarded as separate from the brain has in many ways occupied the heart of the reincarnation problem for a long time. time. Descartes developed the concept of dualism in the seventeenth century to separate the mind - the world of thoughts - from matter, including the brain. In terms of this concept, he proposed that an immaterial sphere, that of thoughts, coexisted with a material sphere.
Quote:
If the immaterial mind is separated from brain matter, we are grappling with the question of whether it can continue to exist after the brain dies. Many orthodox scientists find the idea that the immaterial substance of mind can interact with the brain is absurd. brain matter and some even go so far as to say that the concept of dualism violates known laws of physics. If the mind affects the body, then it must modify a physical entity, that is, brain cells, without the physical energy or mass associated with it. Such a modification requires an energy expenditure. Since there is no source of energy available, the process would violate the principle of conservation. As one critic wrote: “This confrontation between traditional physics and dualism has been endlessly discussed since the time of Descartes, and has been seen as the unavoidable and fatal defect of dualistic view.” To this the physicist Henry Stapp replied: “The argument depends to identify 'traditional physics' with nineteenth-century physics. But it comes down to contemporary physics, [...] according to which conscious effort can influence brain activity without violating the laws of physics. Contemporary physical theory admits, and in its orthodox form von Neumann presupposes, an interactive dualism. ”In terms of its model, consciousness is capable of producing effects while being“ fully compatible with all known laws of physics, including that of energy conservation ”. When he says "contemporary physics," he refers to quantum mechanics, which is the microscopic understanding of the material world of molecules, atoms, and subatomic particles. Similarly, Nobel laureate neuroscientist John C. Eccles came up with a dualistic solution to the problem. He and quantum physicist Friedrich Beck hypothetically constructed a device, according to quantum mechanics, that shows how the mind can act on the brain without violating conservation laws: mental intent would affect the brain by increasing the odds of releasing chemicals. neurotransmitters, for nerve cell synapses. In the area of ​​physics and paranormal phenomena, some physicists have contested the idea that the two are incompatible. Elizabeth Rauscher and Russell Targ explained that the usual four dimensions of time and space do not support the incorporation of the findings of parapsychological research, but that the geometric spacetime model known as the “complex Minkowski space” can be used successfully to describe the great discoveries of parapsychology. On the other hand, O. Costa de Beauregard has even denied that the idea of ​​geometric spacetime is necessary to explain psychic phenomena. He stated that the occurrence of paranormal phenomena is clearly implicit in theoretical physics and that precognition, telepathy and psychokinesis are allowed. by your laws. Indeed, he wrote that “far from being 'unreasonable', the paranormal is postulated by contemporary physics.” Brian Josephson, Nobel laureate in physics, generated controversy by contributing a short article to the booklet that accompanied a series of postage stamps. Britain by Royal Mail to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the Nobel Prizes. In it, he wrote that quantum theory was now being combined with theories of information and computing, "developments that may in future explain processes not yet understood by conventional science, such as telepathy." In the long run, he added, phenomena such as telepathy and mind-matter interactions, to be discussed in passing, will eventually be accepted and confirmed by science.
Quote:
Regarding the importance of consciousness in the universe, experiments have shown that, in the case of subatomic particles, several realities can be present at the same time, until observation restricts them to a single possibility. This may be a difficult concept to understand, so here's an example. In the classic “double-slot” experiment, light particles or photons act as waves that appear to spread and advance through two slots at the same time unless physicists install detectors next to the slots to record each passing photon. . In this case, the photon advances through one slot or another, but not both, thus implying that detection forces photons to follow one path or another.John Wheeler, an important physicist who, among countless achievements, named the black holes , extended this concept to demonstrate how conscious observers of the present can affect past events. He devised an experiment to show that the measures now taken by astronomers on Earth are capable of affecting the path of a particle of light emanating from a distant quasar, followed for billions of years before astronomers made their observations. Later the experiment was demonstrated in principle in the laboratory. Wheeler thinks that, at the quantum level, the universe is a work in progress where not only the future has not been determined but the past is not yet, conscious observers can help select one of the many possible quantum pasts to the universe. Andrei Linde, a physicist at Stanford University, goes even further: he claims that conscious observers are an essential part of the universe. In his words: “I cannot imagine a consistent theory of the whole [the goal of physics to arrive at a unified theory. that explains both the large-scale universe of gravity and relativity and the small-scale universe of quantum mechanics] that ignores consciousness. ”When we combine the ideas of these well-respected scientists - that we must regard consciousness as something separate from the brain, that Modern physics can be employed to explain paranormal phenomena and that consciousness is an essential part of the universe - we get a view of consciousness very different from its materialistic negation. According to this thesis, consciousness is an essential and independent force in the universe, being the parapsychological effects that it can produce consistent with the current position of physics. If this view is correct, we should be able, beyond what our cases provide, to find evidence in support of the idea of ​​a consciousness functioning independently of the brain. Life Before Life Copyright © 2005 Jim B. Tucker Want more proof please contact this site .. http://www.jimbtucker.com/
I can't help but notice that none of this is evidence for god. In fact you don't even mention any sort of deity.

And your opening premise is wrong, by the way. When you start with incorrect assumptions, obviously your chances of ending up with the correct conclusion are slim.

So how about you try again, this time with actual reasoning, arguments and evidence? Remember, not only must you make the case that deities are possible and probable, but you must also make the case that it's YOUR deity, and not Zeus or Quetzalcoatl.

Quote:
"developments that may in future explain processes not yet understood by conventional science, such as telepathy."
In order to need to explain something, you must first demonstrate that it exists.
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Old 14th August 2019, 11:17 AM   #105
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaI411S8aoM
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Old 14th August 2019, 11:20 AM   #106
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I'm not saying about God ... I'm saying proof of life after death! Why don't you contact this researcher and ask them these questions! http://www.jimbtucker.com/contact.html
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Old 14th August 2019, 11:21 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post

yt;dw

Can you explain what it is supposed to show, please?
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Old 14th August 2019, 11:21 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
No. Make YOUR OWN argument. Not someone else's. I'm not watching a video in the hopes that an argument will be found in there. You present it, and I'll evaluate it.

So far you're not inspiring confidence.

Quote:
Why don't you contact this researcher and ask them these questions!
Because they're not the ones pitching the idea to me. You are.
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Old 14th August 2019, 11:22 AM   #109
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Ricardo. Brah. Just another reminder that your arguments are not novel or intriguing on this forum. If you have a unique trump card to play, now would be a great time.
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Old 14th August 2019, 11:22 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
I'm not saying about God ... I'm saying proof of life after death! Why don't you contact this researcher and ask them these questions! http://www.jimbtucker.com/contact.html

Why can’t you present any evidence for it?
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Old 14th August 2019, 11:23 AM   #111
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Also, I am starting to smell spam.
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Old 14th August 2019, 11:27 AM   #112
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It is not spam ! Don't you want proof or evidence? https://edgy.app/life-after-death-ac...uantum-physics
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Old 14th August 2019, 11:28 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Also, I am starting to smell spam.
Oh, dear. I hope you're not heading to the Dreadful Meat Dimension. That's one of the less pleasant afterlife destinations! Right next to the Hell of Jigsaw Puzzles Missing One Piece Each and the Abyss of Television Where The Shows Are Slightly Too Quiet And The Commercials Slightly Too Loud And You Can't Adjust The Volume.
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Old 14th August 2019, 11:31 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Why can’t you present any evidence for it?
I can't ... but the researchers I referred can ... contact them and ask their questions! https://www.robertlanza.com/
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Old 14th August 2019, 11:32 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
It is not spam ! Don't you want proof or evidence?

Please post some. If you post a link, explain in your own words what it shows and why you think it is relevant.
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Old 14th August 2019, 11:34 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
I can't ... but the researchers I referred can ... contact them and ask their questions! https://www.robertlanza.com/

If you can’t understand their “evidence” well enough to summarise it, how do you know that it is evidence for life after death?

How about you contact them?
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Last edited by Mojo; 14th August 2019 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 14th August 2019, 11:35 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Oh, dear. I hope you're not heading to the Dreadful Meat Dimension. That's one of the less pleasant afterlife destinations! Right next to the Hell of Jigsaw Puzzles Missing One Piece Each and the Abyss of Television Where The Shows Are Slightly Too Quiet And The Commercials Slightly Too Loud And You Can't Adjust The Volume.
Is that the one before, or after, the one where your co-damned have iPhones and you have an android?
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Old 14th August 2019, 11:41 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
It is not spam ! Don't you want proof or evidence? https://edgy.app/life-after-death-ac...uantum-physics
You really can't say it's not spam....and then spam a link. It doesn't work that way.

Dude, I'm not even here. Just popping in to save you some time. So speaking as a representative of the Great Beyond, I can authoritavely say that there is nothing here.
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Old 14th August 2019, 11:49 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
It is not spam ! Don't you want proof or evidence? https://edgy.app/life-after-death-ac...uantum-physics
STOP. POSTING. LINKS.

POST. YOUR. OWN. ARGUMENTS.
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Old 14th August 2019, 11:50 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
I can't ... but the researchers I referred can ... contact them and ask their questions! https://www.robertlanza.com/
If you can't, then you don't understand their evidence and cannot claim that it is convincing.

So which is it?
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