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Old 9th September 2019, 09:02 AM   #161
8enotto
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A cat solved, or helped us solve the noises in a house we rented.

His ball stayed in the middle of the room in the winter months and went to the back wall in summer months. Spring and fall the house was creaky and noisy especially during rains or storms.

When the house sold we had to move out so half the foundations could be replaced. The nights with storms, especially in the fall, were freaking out my sister bad. She heard all sorts of stuff and worse, could demonstrate times and days it would probably happen. Her ideas went old house, bad events.

A marble on the dining room floor easily showed that the frost heave moved the house.
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Old 9th September 2019, 02:00 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
When the police went outside, there was no sign of the girl but they did delay going after her, due to what was descried as an embarrassing exchange between the officers and the couple over how could the police see someone the couple said they could not.

What convinces me that there is such a thing as a ghost is that in this case and the others I know, those who saw the ghost thought they were seeing an actual person. It was only afterwards that they realised what they had seen was not a live, present person.
Let's get this right, the police are investigating a gunshot, they are told no one else is on the property other than them by the couple.

they find themselves in a position where they see a girl walk down the central staircase towards them,

why the police wouldn't immediately stop and question her is unexplained in this fantasy but whatever,

What actually is purported to have happened is..
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
“So who is she?” one PC asked. “Who is who?” the elderly man replied.“That girl” said the PC. “What girl?” the elderly man and his wife replied. The young female walked past them all, out of the door, on to the gravel drive, turned and went out of sight. She did not make a sound.
The girl might have the gun? Why didn't the police do their job and stop her?

what a load of bollocks things that don't ring true,

both of those Police Constables should have been sacked immediately, if it wasn't just a made up story.

EDIT:
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Considering the death in the house and the lack of any other explanation, I think ghost is a not unreasonable answer.
Only if you already believe in ghosts.

Why couldn't it have been leprechauns?

Last edited by p0lka; 9th September 2019 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 9th September 2019, 02:16 PM   #163
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My belief, based on personal experience and experiences that I would consider to be reliable, is that there are ghosts, by the standard definition of ghosts and not leprechauns.

Exactly what ghosts are, is a completely different matter and pretty much totally unknown.
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Old 9th September 2019, 02:27 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Yes. Since part of the house was the police office and being where we were, doors were not always locked, we had had people just walk into the house.

The footsteps walked right past me, but I saw no one. The same thing happened to my spouse.
And everyone's footsteps sounded the same?
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Old 9th September 2019, 02:29 PM   #165
p0lka
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
My belief, based on personal experience and experiences that I would consider to be reliable, is that there are ghosts, by the standard definition of ghosts and not leprechauns.

Exactly what ghosts are, is a completely different matter and pretty much totally unknown.
au contraire mon ami, it is known, there is no evidence for ghosts.
So far.
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Old 9th September 2019, 02:37 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And everyone's footsteps sounded the same?
No, the footsteps sounded like an adult wearing shoes.
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Old 9th September 2019, 02:43 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
My belief, based on personal experience and experiences that I would consider to be reliable, is that there are ghosts, by the standard definition of ghosts and not leprechauns.

Exactly what ghosts are, is a completely different matter and pretty much totally unknown.
Looking through your posts its seem rather evident that you deem people "reliable" based on if they tell you what you already believe.

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Old 9th September 2019, 02:45 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
au contraire mon ami, it is known, there is no evidence for ghosts.
So far.
There is credible witness evidence.
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Old 9th September 2019, 02:53 PM   #169
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Well this has turned interesting. So if ghosts are real then what are ghosts exactly? The dead? So you must then believe in the afterlife too?
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Old 9th September 2019, 03:02 PM   #170
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Nessie, what is a ghost? A dead person? This opens up a can of worms because if ghosts exist then the afterlife exists, therefore God must exist.......
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Old 9th September 2019, 05:58 PM   #171
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Whoops! Hold that tigger, kiddoo!

Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Nessie, what is a ghost? A dead person? This opens up a can of worms because if ghosts exist then the afterlife exists, therefore God must exist.......
Don't inject "therefore" into your undigested thoughts quite so quickly. Can't you concieve of life after death without boring old God? Suppose we survive bodily death, but all on our own. Now we're incorporeal wraiths (or sumthin'; I can't write extended fiction with one finger) wandering around the universe with nothing to do & nobody to help us. Are we going to mooch around playing poltergeist? Or floating half-visibly down Rolfe's stairs?

Or are we going to run mad (not at lightspeed, alas) at the idea that this state may never end?

Pish. Let's blow our noses on the notion of SuperGod coming to bail us out. Let's bring some creativity to this here script conference!

And some beer nuts, dammit!
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Old 9th September 2019, 06:23 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Nessie, what is a ghost? A dead person? This opens up a can of worms because if ghosts exist then the afterlife exists, therefore God must exist.......
Ah, point of order there. Just because some kind of afterlife exists does not necessarily imply that the Christian God exists. There are lots of other possible kinds of afterlife that aren't Christian in nature.
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Old 9th September 2019, 06:31 PM   #173
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The main reason I've been forced to re-evaluate the existence of ghosts as metaphysical entities is the fact that the most common type of ghost is that of a still living person.

Almost every one of these events is triggered by sound. Someone is at home and hears what they believe to be a loved one in another room, or walking about the house only to discover that this person is not present. This is something that can happen in the workplace. This not astral projection. This is the brain making an association with a familiar sound and linking it to a person based on the assumption that this person is present at the location.

This means that ghosts in general are a reflexive creation of the mind. The fact that people see or hear the ghosts of the living suggests there is a huge flaw in the assumptions made by paranormal researchers as they relate to the dead.
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Old 9th September 2019, 06:55 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
There is credible witness evidence.
There's just as credible eyewitness evidence for aliens and bigfoot.

Do you accept those as real, too?

Re: the steps you hears, is there even a .001% chance someone was in the attic or the attached part of the house on the other side?
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Old 9th September 2019, 07:00 PM   #175
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The point isn't if the witness is credible or not, the point is that their eyes and brains can be self-fooled.
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Old 9th September 2019, 07:00 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Nessie, what is a ghost? A dead person? This opens up a can of worms because if ghosts exist then the afterlife exists, therefore God must exist.......
They could just be spirit entities from another dimension that are sensed telepathically. Or stone tape theory. Or whatever. LOL

(I don't think they exist at all, for the record, but if they did, the question of what they are and what follows from there would be completely open.)
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Old 9th September 2019, 09:24 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Well this has turned interesting. So if ghosts are real then what are ghosts exactly? The dead? So you must then believe in the afterlife too?


Well, the afterlife is but one possibility. I once read a Piers Anthony novel a long time ago where ghosts weren’t spirits but a kind of psychic-energy-residual-recording thing.

They could actually be aliens made of energy who read our minds and take the form of things familiar to us.

Or: How about crossover interference from alternate universes?

Or maybe we are spirits and when we die there’s no such thing as an afterlife as we conceive it so if we can’t (or don’t want to) latch onto a new body we have to wander around until we do.

When you can just make stuff up without evidence or regard for reality the imagination is the only limit.
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Old 9th September 2019, 11:29 PM   #178
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How do we explain ghosts?

Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Considering the death in the house and the lack of any other explanation, I think ghost is a not unreasonable answer.
I think that the death in the house is irrelevant to the explanation. As you have heard, people who think a death has happened in a house tend to see ghosts, even when no death has happened, and besides, there are lots of houses where people have died; indeed, most houses that are old will have had a death in the house. Hospitals should be crammed with ghosts.

Quote:
Nothing like that explains what we heard. We would have been delighted to find out what had caused the noises.
Sure, but the fact is that you cannot rule out trivial causes simply because you cannot imagine any.
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Old 9th September 2019, 11:35 PM   #179
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Yes I guess so, it's what mediums claim you see, they claim that they can talk to the dead and they believe in god, not a Christian one but a creator. I don't like the thought of a creator, it somehow lessons my feelings of control. I want to believe that my mum, dad and genetics created me, not some fellow up in 'heaven'
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Old 9th September 2019, 11:36 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Well, the afterlife is but one possibility. I once read a Piers Anthony novel a long time ago where ghosts weren’t spirits but a kind of psychic-energy-residual-recording thing.

They could actually be aliens made of energy who read our minds and take the form of things familiar to us.

Or: How about crossover interference from alternate universes?

Or maybe we are spirits and when we die there’s no such thing as an afterlife as we conceive it so if we can’t (or don’t want to) latch onto a new body we have to wander around until we do.

When you can just make stuff up without evidence or regard for reality the imagination is the only limit.
I think it is because a lot of ghost theories are based around a person whom used to exist
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Old 9th September 2019, 11:38 PM   #181
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I just think it's spooky how two police officers saw the same person, that cannot be trickery of the mind therefore
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Old 9th September 2019, 11:44 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
I just think it's spooky how two police officers saw the same person, that cannot be trickery of the mind therefore
It certainly can. Did these officers speak to each other before reporting it to anyone else?

First officer, to second officer: Hey, remember that person we saw? Do you remember if they were wearing a scarf?

Second officer, to first officer: I dunno. Yeah, maybe.

Later

Second officer, to interviewer: We both definitely saw a person wearing a scarf.
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Old 9th September 2019, 11:56 PM   #183
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It's also perfectly possible for two people to misinterpret the same sensory input in exactly the same way.
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Old 10th September 2019, 12:33 AM   #184
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What worries me is that a one time LEO would take such unmitigated pish as credible.

Nessie, what would you have said, back when you were a serving officer, if someone had used a line like that following an illegal act?

"Officer, it wasn't me it was a ghost. You only have to ask my friends and family about how credible I am and remember that I had no reason to fear a ghost would turn up and do this. Good day and thanks for coming round!"
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Old 10th September 2019, 12:46 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Nessie, what is a ghost? A dead person? This opens up a can of worms because if ghosts exist then the afterlife exists, therefore God must exist.......
I do not know it that has to be the case. A ghost, by nature is something that has appeared out of time. It is both in the present and not at the same time and that does not need a God or afterlife.
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Old 10th September 2019, 12:49 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
There's just as credible eyewitness evidence for aliens and bigfoot.

Do you accept those as real, too?

Re: the steps you hears, is there even a .001% chance someone was in the attic or the attached part of the house on the other side?
All the people who I have seen who have claimed to have seen aliens etc are, well basically nutters. Plus, actual aliens or a big foot, I would expect some physical evidence that it had been present. A ghost, buy its nature would not leave physical evidence.
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Old 10th September 2019, 12:52 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
I think that the death in the house is irrelevant to the explanation. As you have heard, people who think a death has happened in a house tend to see ghosts, even when no death has happened, and besides, there are lots of houses where people have died; indeed, most houses that are old will have had a death in the house. Hospitals should be crammed with ghosts.



Sure, but the fact is that you cannot rule out trivial causes simply because you cannot imagine any.
We only found out about the death in the house, after we had been hearing the footsteps.
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Old 10th September 2019, 01:01 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
What worries me is that a one time LEO would take such unmitigated pish as credible.

Nessie, what would you have said, back when you were a serving officer, if someone had used a line like that following an illegal act?

"Officer, it wasn't me it was a ghost. You only have to ask my friends and family about how credible I am and remember that I had no reason to fear a ghost would turn up and do this. Good day and thanks for coming round!"
That is a false analogy. Trying to attribute a criminal act to a ghost is not credible and is nothing like what I am describing.

I went to lots of reports of "intruders" where at the end, we could find nothing and would joke about ghosts.

There was a famous ghost on a road out of one town I worked at, which I saw numerous times. It was a trick of the light, with headlights on a bend in the road causing a moving shadow that really did look like someone ran into the road and then vanished. I took a few phone calls about that, from non locals who did not know about the phenomena.

I and another officer saw a weird green light in the sky during one evening patrol. We could not find an explanation for that.

I was often single manned and checked remote properties when there were concerns of travelling criminals targeting such for housebreakings. I have been to some very creepy places and not had any experiences of anything.

If anything, being in the police opened my mind and means that I accept we cannot explain or evidence everything.
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Old 10th September 2019, 01:04 AM   #189
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Just because we cannot explain it doesn't mean that an explanation doesn't exist. You may not know what caused that weird green light in the sky, but something caused it. Something mundane, something normal. It could have been any one of a million things you haven't thought of. You've got no way to rule any of them out.
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Old 10th September 2019, 01:04 AM   #190
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So a ghost would be something which points to an afterlife and a god? Does this mean that psychics are real then when they claim they can speak to spirits? Like a dead uncle?
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Old 10th September 2019, 01:13 AM   #191
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Old 10th September 2019, 01:31 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Just because we cannot explain it doesn't mean that an explanation doesn't exist. You may not know what caused that weird green light in the sky, but something caused it. Something mundane, something normal. It could have been any one of a million things you haven't thought of. You've got no way to rule any of them out.
This.

All 'unexplained' means is that you don't have enough information to work out the explanation. With anecdotes there is very rarely any chance of gathering more information afterwards, so they remain unexplained. That can never justify assuming a supernatural explanation.

On the rare occasions when further information does become available, it always turns out that there is a mundane explanation after all. Funny, that.
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Old 10th September 2019, 01:40 AM   #193
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Old 10th September 2019, 01:45 AM   #194
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Someone mentioned the ghost story that was told here by a poster who did manage to gather more information. From memory: he was in a churchyard at a funeral in gathering mist, when some of the mourners noticed a mysterious figure in the distance. It was a white figure that seemed to walk towards them, then disappear. A few seconds later it would reappear, walk towards them again, and then vanish again. Note that all the mourners saw the same thing. A couple of them, including the poster, plucked up the courage to approach the apparition, and found it was a black and white cow, which was walking up and down in the field just beyond the churchyard. Its front half happened to be white and its back half black, so every time it walked towards them it looked like a two legged white human figure, and every time it walked away it simply vanished.

The important point to note about this story is if no-one had had the courage to investigate all those mourners would be telling that ghost story to this day, and in the unlikely event that anyone had thought of and suggested the cow explanation they would almost certainly have dismissed it out of hand.
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Last edited by Pixel42; 10th September 2019 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 10th September 2019, 01:49 AM   #195
arthwollipot
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What a great story! This is the kind of thing in the range of "possible explanations you haven't thought of". Yes, the green light in the sky probably wasn't a black and white cow, but it might have been a kid playing with a green laser pointer, bouncing it off low hanging clouds. Or it might have been something else.
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Old 10th September 2019, 02:27 AM   #196
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At two or three each morning, and occasionally at other times, I hear a sharp, cracking noise coming from my kitchen. It sounds like someone snapping a pencil. The noise is actually the anti-frost mechanism in my fridge/freezer going into action. It took me a few months to figure this one out. Samsung != ghost.
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Old 10th September 2019, 03:14 AM   #197
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Nessie, what is a ghost? A dead person? This opens up a can of worms because if ghosts exist then the afterlife exists, therefore God must exist.......
Not if they're the 'replayed recording' type of ghost (which I also do not believe in btw), that wouldn't support even an afterlife by any sensible definition of the word. Even a conscious non corporeal survival 'here on earth' (for want of a better description) wouldn't support and afterlife or god(s), it would be a continuation of this life.
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Old 10th September 2019, 03:37 AM   #198
bluesjnr
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
That is a false analogy. Trying to attribute a criminal act to a ghost is not credible and is nothing like what I am describing.

I went to lots of reports of "intruders" where at the end, we could find nothing and would joke about ghosts.

There was a famous ghost on a road out of one town I worked at, which I saw numerous times. It was a trick of the light, with headlights on a bend in the road causing a moving shadow that really did look like someone ran into the road and then vanished. I took a few phone calls about that, from non locals who did not know about the phenomena.

I and another officer saw a weird green light in the sky during one evening patrol. We could not find an explanation for that.

I was often single manned and checked remote properties when there were concerns of travelling criminals targeting such for housebreakings. I have been to some very creepy places and not had any experiences of anything.

If anything, being in the police opened my mind and means that I accept we cannot explain or evidence everything.
What is it that lacks credibility, the inclusion of a ghost in the defence or the notion that your ghosts do not commit criminal acts?
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Old 10th September 2019, 04:48 AM   #199
rockysmith76
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
There is credible witness evidence.
It should be required that folks offer up proof on both levels, when a blanket statement like that is made, there should be some meat on the bone. Otherwise it's just as much a claim as a ghost witness making "claims"
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Old 10th September 2019, 05:30 AM   #200
AmyW
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Yes I guess they are only claims, just spooks me out and my thought was if ghosts exist then an afterlife exists. Am I wrong?
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