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Old 10th September 2019, 05:48 AM   #201
Steve001
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Nessie, what is a ghost? A dead person? This opens up a can of worms because if ghosts exist then the afterlife exists, therefore God must exist.......
Why must God exist if the former are true?
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Old 10th September 2019, 05:56 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
I agree with the highlighted,
if we can see ghosts then the ghost is interacting physically with the world and reflecting light into our eyes. That would imply that any device that can detect reflected light should be able to detect ghosts, yet I don't think anyone has created such a device. Camera/video doesn't seem to do the job.

We kinda do know a bit about the nature of ghosts (if real), we know that they reflect light otherwise no one would see them.
How do we know they reflect light? Perhaps they create light. Perhaps they stimulate the retina or the synaptic connections directly.
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Old 10th September 2019, 07:00 AM   #203
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The nature or mission of ghost explanation kind of bothers me.

If it is that disembodied essence of a once living person that a) does not know he is dead or b) died with an unfinished drive or desire and must finish it, that one is doomed.

The others lived on and changed , then possibly died themselves making the mission impossible. Or if decades pass and the cemetery is moved, the building razed and all memories of the past lost, it's hell on earth for that one.
No chance at redemption.

If a recreation of some event in a place, that somehow the emotion of the moment pegged itself and it will repeat after the fact ( I have no idea how this might work ) it's kind of pointless. Anne Bolen or a gala ball in 1821 in a fancy hotel, just hearing the band play again or the figure walk to her death has no function.

I cannot offer good answers and won't try. I have experienced things I cannot explain and don't try. As Pink Floyd put it.

When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look and it was gone.
I cannot put my finger on it now, the child has grown, the feeling is gone.

Or something close to that from Comfortably Numb.
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Old 10th September 2019, 07:09 AM   #204
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Something that has been confusing to me about believers, is they often talk, not only about spirits and ghosts, but reincarnation. So who gets reincarnated, who stays on 'the other side' and communicates with the living?
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Old 10th September 2019, 07:12 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Yes I guess they are only claims, just spooks me out and my thought was if ghosts exist then an afterlife exists. Am I wrong?
That would depend on what a ghost is. If a real ghost is a spirit in the afterlife, then, by definition, there is an afterlife.

The mere existence of reports of ghosts would not be proof of an afterlife.

While such reports exist, they are several steps from proof.

First, prove that the reported incident occurred, and the report is not fiction.

Then, identify the phenomenon which the reporter observed.

Having pinned down the phenomenon, investigate to find what it is.

Finally, determine whether what you know of the nature of the phenomenon indicates that it is indeed a disembodied spirit.

Thus far, only the unsupported report has been seen. Setting aside, for the moment, deliberate dishonesty. Even when you trust the source of a report, that only means you are certain that the person making the report is honest. Honest people can be mistaken in their interpretation of what they have seen.
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Old 10th September 2019, 08:23 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
We only found out about the death in the house, after we had been hearing the footsteps.
Yes, and why do you think this has anything to do with the sound you heard? It is only because you have already decided on the ghost story that the death has importance to you. Why do you rule out invisible gnomes? There is as much evidence for their existence, and they are not connected to death.
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Old 10th September 2019, 11:03 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
Yes, and why do you think this has anything to do with the sound you heard? It is only because you have already decided on the ghost story that the death has importance to you. Why do you rule out invisible gnomes? There is as much evidence for their existence, and they are not connected to death.
Invisible gnomes and another suggestion of leprechauns are just names being bandied about. The type of phenomena I am referring to is normally called a ghost.

Regarding the OP, I cannot explain them, other than I think that amongst a lot of rubbish, there is something out there and that occasionally, there really is something that we call a ghost that makes an appearance, such that if people are about, they may see or hear it.

The problem with ghosts is that unlike Big Foot or aliens, a ghost is not going to leave behind physical traces.

There is no evidence for invisible gnomes, as in a dwarfish creature that has the power of invisibility. There is evidence, from credible witnesses reporting circumstances that have no other explanation, of ghosts.
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Old 10th September 2019, 11:28 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
There is no evidence for invisible gnomes, as in a dwarfish creature that has the power of invisibility. There is evidence, from credible witnesses reporting circumstances that have no other explanation, of ghosts.
Every sighting has an explanation. Some take longer to explain than others. Some have to wait for science to evolve.

And yes, science has evolved considerably since the 1860's when Spiritualism began to give way to Parapsychology, but in that 150 year time span science has split the atom, put men on the moon, put a powerful computer in your pocket, and many other things considered fantastic in 1865. But science has yet to prove ghosts exist and Parapsychology has stagnated since the 1970's. When I say "Science" I mean that across all the disciplines: Nuclear Physics, Structural Engineering, Aeronautical Engineering, Astrophysics, Medicine, and so on. All of these disciplines have engineered sensitive equipment which can detect varieties of subtle changes, and conditions in the environment, Some of these conditions only exist for fractions of a second.

By now ghosts, under the "rules" of people who believe in ghosts, should have been caught by one of these devices simply by accident. And yet...
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Old 10th September 2019, 12:15 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Every sighting has an explanation. Some take longer to explain than others. Some have to wait for science to evolve.

And yes, science has evolved considerably since the 1860's when Spiritualism began to give way to Parapsychology, but in that 150 year time span science has split the atom, put men on the moon, put a powerful computer in your pocket, and many other things considered fantastic in 1865. But science has yet to prove ghosts exist and Parapsychology has stagnated since the 1970's. When I say "Science" I mean that across all the disciplines: Nuclear Physics, Structural Engineering, Aeronautical Engineering, Astrophysics, Medicine, and so on. All of these disciplines have engineered sensitive equipment which can detect varieties of subtle changes, and conditions in the environment, Some of these conditions only exist for fractions of a second.

By now ghosts, under the "rules" of people who believe in ghosts, should have been caught by one of these devices simply by accident. And yet...
This is very interesting, being a ghost hunter can you give some examples of ghosts actually being hoaxes? If ghosts existed why don't we see them all the time? Why the mystery?
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Old 10th September 2019, 12:18 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
Why must God exist if the former are true?
Because psychics claim to be able to talk to the dead and have mentioned that there is a god
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Old 10th September 2019, 12:37 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Yes I guess they are only claims, just spooks me out and my thought was if ghosts exist then an afterlife exists. Am I wrong?
Yes you're possibly wrong.

Even if ghosts existed-:

If they were 'recordings' being replayed as most ghost stories describe, it's no more proof of an afterlife than a video cassette. So you'd be wrong.

If ghosts are cognoscent and aware but 'here' then it would arguably be another, non corporeal stage of life rather than an 'afterlife'. Final irreversable death would be pushed back a stage. So arguably wrong. It certainly wouldn't prove the 'go to a special place with your dead relatives' afterlife most people think of.
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Old 10th September 2019, 01:39 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Every sighting has an explanation. Some take longer to explain than others. Some have to wait for science to evolve.

And yes, science has evolved considerably since the 1860's when Spiritualism began to give way to Parapsychology, but in that 150 year time span science has split the atom, put men on the moon, put a powerful computer in your pocket, and many other things considered fantastic in 1865. But science has yet to prove ghosts exist and Parapsychology has stagnated since the 1970's. When I say "Science" I mean that across all the disciplines: Nuclear Physics, Structural Engineering, Aeronautical Engineering, Astrophysics, Medicine, and so on. All of these disciplines have engineered sensitive equipment which can detect varieties of subtle changes, and conditions in the environment, Some of these conditions only exist for fractions of a second.

By now ghosts, under the "rules" of people who believe in ghosts, should have been caught by one of these devices simply by accident. And yet...
How likely is it that by now a ghost should have been in the right place at the right time to be detected by a scientific instrument, or vice versa? How do we know what ghosts should or would trigger that would confirm it was a ghost?
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Old 10th September 2019, 01:51 PM   #213
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Another ghost story.

A minister of the Church of Scotland (and at one time Moderator of the General Assembly, so head of the church) arrives late at night at a country house hotel, the day before the start of a conference. Staff offer him a snack and he is taken to the old library, an impressive room with floor to ceiling bookcases and an open fire.

He finds a book to read and settles at the fire. He then sees a lady, who he thinks is bringing him his snack, but instead she is pointing at a book that is out of her reach. He gets it for her, turns but she is not there. She is now at the fireplace, pointing into the fire.

The minister has the overwhelming urge to throw the book into the fire and he does so. The lady vanishes and a member of hotel staff walks in with his snack. The minister is horrified that he has just thrown a book into the fire and he does not know what to say, until the hotel staff member simply asks, "was it her?".
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Old 10th September 2019, 02:06 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
How likely is it that by now a ghost should have been in the right place at the right time to be detected by a scientific instrument, or vice versa? How do we know what ghosts should or would trigger that would confirm it was a ghost?
Many ghost believers state that ghosts appear on film or video recordings. A camera can be a quite useful scientific instrument, in that it records the actual appearance of an object, getting around the perception and memory errors of human observation.

There are vastly more cameras around now than previously, yet numbers of reported photos of ghosts have declined. This is true as well of UFOs, fairies, witches on brooms, angels, Nessie, Ogopogo, Bigfoot, Midlands Melanistic Panthers, and other cryptids. With more observers capable of making recordings, if there is anything observable there, the number of recorded observations should increase.
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Old 10th September 2019, 02:06 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
I just think it's spooky how two police officers saw the same person, that cannot be trickery of the mind therefore
You don't know they did, you are relying on what someone else told you.

We are supposed to believe that two police officers saw a lady leaving the scene of a suspected gunshot and they just let her walk off?

make your own mind up.
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Old 10th September 2019, 02:20 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Another ghost story.

A minister of the Church of Scotland (and at one time Moderator of the General Assembly, so head of the church) arrives late at night at a country house hotel, the day before the start of a conference. Staff offer him a snack and he is taken to the old library, an impressive room with floor to ceiling bookcases and an open fire.

He finds a book to read and settles at the fire. He then sees a lady, who he thinks is bringing him his snack, but instead she is pointing at a book that is out of her reach. He gets it for her, turns but she is not there. She is now at the fireplace, pointing into the fire.

The minister has the overwhelming urge to throw the book into the fire and he does so. The lady vanishes and a member of hotel staff walks in with his snack. The minister is horrified that he has just thrown a book into the fire and he does not know what to say, until the hotel staff member simply asks, "was it her?".
Ghosts dont exist, but your 'tales to creep you up at night' are still spooking me the hell out, haha.
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Old 10th September 2019, 02:33 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
This is very interesting, being a ghost hunter can you give some examples of ghosts actually being hoaxes? If ghosts existed why don't we see them all the time? Why the mystery?
The Grand Daddy of hoaxes is the Amityville Horror. George Lutz was a master manipulator, and physically abusive. He bought an infamous murder house and fabricated a series of stories to get a lucrative book deal. There have been 13 Amityville Horror-related movies since then.

Yet no one who has lived in that house has reported anything paranormal since the Lutz Family moved out in 1974.

Youtube is full of hoaxers. My two favorites are:

The Fam: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUS...FeYe6bs20-YUdw

and Moe Sargi:

https://www.youtube.com/user/DirtStarPranks

They're entertaining, but I'm not sure why they think they're fooling anyone.

My favorite Youtube debunker is The Shape:

Before you click please know he is NSFW due to language:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDN...fZkpNC0srM2JkA

He's a fellow ghost hunter with a solid BS meter and he's also hilarious.

To answer your second question is easy. The reason people don't see them everywhere is because they don't exist.

Think about the roads and highways you drive on every day and every week. There should dozens or even hundreds of ghosts of those who died in wrecks, but haunted highways and roads are uncommon. Roads that are haunted tend to be lover-s lanes type locations where people go to get high and or make out. Same thing with the bad part of town where the murder rate is through the roof. Where are the ghosts looking for justice? Chicago should be so full of ghosts that they qualify to have their own Congressional Representative. Where are those stories?

I have stood in rooms where men committed suicide, where brutal murders took place, and they are unremarkable.
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Old 10th September 2019, 02:47 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
The Grand Daddy of hoaxes is the Amityville Horror. George Lutz was a master manipulator, and physically abusive. He bought an infamous murder house and fabricated a series of stories to get a lucrative book deal. There have been 13 Amityville Horror-related movies since then.

Yet no one who has lived in that house has reported anything paranormal since the Lutz Family moved out in 1974.

Youtube is full of hoaxers. My two favorites are:

The Fam: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUS...FeYe6bs20-YUdw

and Moe Sargi:

https://www.youtube.com/user/DirtStarPranks

They're entertaining, but I'm not sure why they think they're fooling anyone.

My favorite Youtube debunker is The Shape:

Before you click please know he is NSFW due to language:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDN...fZkpNC0srM2JkA

He's a fellow ghost hunter with a solid BS meter and he's also hilarious.

To answer your second question is easy. The reason people don't see them everywhere is because they don't exist.

Think about the roads and highways you drive on every day and every week. There should dozens or even hundreds of ghosts of those who died in wrecks, but haunted highways and roads are uncommon. Roads that are haunted tend to be lover-s lanes type locations where people go to get high and or make out. Same thing with the bad part of town where the murder rate is through the roof. Where are the ghosts looking for justice? Chicago should be so full of ghosts that they qualify to have their own Congressional Representative. Where are those stories?

I have stood in rooms where men committed suicide, where brutal murders took place, and they are unremarkable.
Thank you very much, I will look at these. Its reassuring to see that you are someone who has done their homework, being a ghost hunter and seeing it all as BS. It's true if ghosts were real they would be everywhere, why the mystery around them, surely they would be everywhere and not at the end of your bed at night.
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Old 10th September 2019, 02:47 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
How likely is it that by now a ghost should have been in the right place at the right time to be detected by a scientific instrument, or vice versa? How do we know what ghosts should or would trigger that would confirm it was a ghost?
Why can't a scientist become a ghost? Why can't this ghost scientist continue to work the problem to prove his existence to living scientists? There have been millions of scientists who have died over the years, so why aren't their laboratories haunted?

Ghosts (supposedly) open doors, slam doors shut, open cupboards, flush toilets, stomp up and down hallways loud enough to slap the floor boards, push people, slap people, scratch people, make phone calls, and yank sheets from beds. If this is true then at the very least a Gravimeter would verify that something was happening. If ghosts can physically manipulate their surroundings then they should show up on a variety of equipment.

I can tell ghost stories too about motion detectors used by SWAT teams training in abandoned metal hospitals going off for no reason. But what I can't do is then use the story as proof of anything. I have to respect the scientific method.
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Old 10th September 2019, 02:49 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
You don't know they did, you are relying on what someone else told you.

We are supposed to believe that two police officers saw a lady leaving the scene of a suspected gunshot and they just let her walk off?

make your own mind up.
This is very true indeed :-) all sounds rather far fetched
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Old 10th September 2019, 03:01 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Thank you very much, I will look at these. Its reassuring to see that you are someone who has done their homework, being a ghost hunter and seeing it all as BS. It's true if ghosts were real they would be everywhere, why the mystery around them, surely they would be everywhere and not at the end of your bed at night.
I don't think of it as BS. I think of it as a transient mental issue of perception caused by a number of background factors. Sure, we can all have a laugh or two here, but what about when the school bus driver gets a bunch of kids killed because he thought he saw someone run out into the street in front of him? The reason I keep working is that someday someone who knows what they're doing can pick up where I leave off to develop a solid theory.

Here's an enlightening experiment.

Park near the entrance of your local supermarket or large store (Target/Walmart) and point a camera at the front door for five minutes. Take mental notes of all the people coming and going. Pick a couple who stand out. When you get home write down descriptions of everyone you saw and then watch your recording to see how solid your memory actually is. In my case there is almost always someone I didn't see and someone I forgot. The people I do remember are often remembered differently than the appear in the recording.

This is a basic perception experiment. It just shows that you're human.
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Old 10th September 2019, 03:14 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Another ghost story.
But that is all you have. Stories.
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Old 10th September 2019, 04:55 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Because psychics claim to be able to talk to the dead and have mentioned that there is a god

If psychics claim to be able to talk to the dead and have mentioned the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or Yuipkghg the Ultimate Creator of the Universe, do you believe they exist?



What about Indian (from India) mystics who talk to the dead, and mention Shiva or Kali? Do you believe in the existence of Shiva or Kali?




I can talk to the dead, by the way. I occasionally talk to my mother who has been dead since 1987. She hasn't answered me.
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Old 10th September 2019, 05:01 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Because psychics claim to be able to talk to the dead and have mentioned that there is a god
The important word is highlighted. Claiming anything is easy.
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Old 10th September 2019, 05:15 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
I just think it's spooky how two police officers saw the same person, that cannot be trickery of the mind therefore
You don't know that they did, all you know is that someone is saying they did, that is not enough to draw any conclusion from.

Nessie could be lying, telling a tall tale not meant to be taken seriously, embellishing or mistaken (no offence to Nessie who I personally would consider an honest poster, but on th' interwebs you should never discount these possibilities)
The person that told Nessie could have been lying, telling a tall tale not meant to be taken seriously, embellishing or mistaken

You don't know how many people were between the original incident, if there was one, and the person who told Nessie, any one of them could have made up or embellished the story.

Even right at the beginning you don't know what the officers themselves did or didn't claim to see in their own words and how much they said independently, whether they talked about it first, if the person who spoke to them and got the story guided or encouraged them.

Stories grow in the telling, it's a natural process and the world is full of impossible stories that happened to a friend of a friend.
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Old 10th September 2019, 06:37 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Another ghost story.

A minister of the Church of Scotland (and at one time Moderator of the General Assembly, so head of the church) arrives late at night at a country house hotel, the day before the start of a conference. Staff offer him a snack and he is taken to the old library, an impressive room with floor to ceiling bookcases and an open fire.

He finds a book to read and settles at the fire. He then sees a lady, who he thinks is bringing him his snack, but instead she is pointing at a book that is out of her reach. He gets it for her, turns but she is not there. She is now at the fireplace, pointing into the fire.

The minister has the overwhelming urge to throw the book into the fire and he does so. The lady vanishes and a member of hotel staff walks in with his snack. The minister is horrified that he has just thrown a book into the fire and he does not know what to say, until the hotel staff member simply asks, "was it her?".
Is there any reason to believe that this isn't a complete fabrication?
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Old 10th September 2019, 08:37 PM   #227
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So, I'm curious. Are you supposed to visually see a ghost, or are some invisible? Who and why would one decide to be seen, or heard, or to just be there and hang out? Can anyone see/hear them, or do only certain receptive people, or people with a certain power, have the ability?
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Old 10th September 2019, 10:03 PM   #228
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Another ghost story.

A minister of the Church of Scotland (and at one time Moderator of the General Assembly, so head of the church) arrives late at night at a country house hotel, the day before the start of a conference. Staff offer him a snack and he is taken to the old library, an impressive room with floor to ceiling bookcases and an open fire.

He finds a book to read and settles at the fire. He then sees a lady, who he thinks is bringing him his snack, but instead she is pointing at a book that is out of her reach. He gets it for her, turns but she is not there. She is now at the fireplace, pointing into the fire.

The minister has the overwhelming urge to throw the book into the fire and he does so. The lady vanishes and a member of hotel staff walks in with his snack. The minister is horrified that he has just thrown a book into the fire and he does not know what to say, until the hotel staff member simply asks, "was it her?".
Plot Hole
If the minister throws the "cursed book" into the fire and thus it is destroyed then how in hell did the maid see this happen before? The previous person would have also destroyed the same book.
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Old 10th September 2019, 10:38 PM   #229
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His position as head of the church may be being used to bolster his credibility. But a lady just popping into his room and choosing a book didn't raise an eyebrow?

Then he felt obligated to destroy that book at her suggestion. Not a cursed book per se but one the book hating girl chose.
Odd story, leaves a lot for the reader to fill in the blanks.
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Old 10th September 2019, 10:53 PM   #230
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
His position as head of the church may be being used to bolster his credibility. But a lady just popping into his room and choosing a book didn't raise an eyebrow?

Then he felt obligated to destroy that book at her suggestion. Not a cursed book per se but one the book hating girl chose.
Odd story, leaves a lot for the reader to fill in the blanks.
Yeah, there are a lot of reasons to believe that this particular story is fiction. The clergyman is not named, nor is the time period established, so it is impossible to research. The location is not named. He experiences an "overwhelming urge" which is extremely convenient for the story, but is otherwise unexplained.

Lot of red flags.
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Old 10th September 2019, 11:15 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
Plot Hole
If the minister throws the "cursed book" into the fire and thus it is destroyed then how in hell did the maid see this happen before? The previous person would have also destroyed the same book.
No, the previous person could have destroyed a different book.

The ghost might hate all books in general and want to see them all burned, for all we know. Or maybe she just hates certain genres, and is trying to purge the library of romance novels, or hoity-toity literary fiction. Or maybe it's just a certain author she hates, and she was working on getting rid of everything written by Jack London.

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Old 10th September 2019, 11:21 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
Plot Hole
If the minister throws the "cursed book" into the fire and thus it is destroyed then how in hell did the maid see this happen before? The previous person would have also destroyed the same book.
As an aspiring writer of fiction I can see several ways to close that loophole. Perhaps the woman was killed by the book's curse, and after death is bound to prevent that happening to anyone else. By consigning the book to the fire, the clergyman has allowed her purpose to be fulfilled and she can now move on to her designated afterlife.
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Old 10th September 2019, 11:35 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
As an aspiring writer of fiction I can see several ways to close that loophole. Perhaps the woman was killed by the book's curse, and after death is bound to prevent that happening to anyone else. By consigning the book to the fire, the clergyman has allowed her purpose to be fulfilled and she can now move on to her designated afterlife.
I see it as implicit in the story that the ghost lady has gotten at least one other person to throw a book (and it would have had to have been a different book) in the fire before.
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Old 11th September 2019, 12:15 AM   #234
Matthew Ellard
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Plot Hole in Ghost Story

Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
No, the previous person could have destroyed a different book.
For entertainment purposes only
1) Why would a ghost be pointing at random books?
2) If random books were being burnt why would the maid say "It was her"


Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
The ghost might hate all books in general and want to see them all burned, for all we know.
Then why only point at one book and not make a grand sweeping gesture at an entire shelf?
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Old 11th September 2019, 12:18 AM   #235
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
As an aspiring writer of fiction I can see several ways to close that loophole. Perhaps the woman was killed by the book's curse, and after death is bound to prevent that happening to anyone else. By consigning the book to the fire, the clergyman has allowed her purpose to be fulfilled and she can now move on to her designated afterlife.
for entertainment purposes only
What KellyB said.......the maid had to have seen someone, before the minister did it, burn the same book, to know it was the ghost woman.
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Old 11th September 2019, 12:21 AM   #236
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Plot Hole in Ghost Story

Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Yeah, there are a lot of reasons to believe that this particular story is fiction.
The ghost woman was unable to pick up the book herself as she was a mere non-physical apparition......yet she still had physical rods & cones in the back of her eyes to be able to receive photons and read book spines.

I could drive a truck through the plot holes in this ghost story.
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Old 11th September 2019, 12:39 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
for entertainment purposes only
What KellyB said.......the maid had to have seen someone, before the minister did it, burn the same book, to know it was the ghost woman.
Not necessarily. The clergyman might have been the first person to actually burn the book. Other people might have seen the ghost and not had the "overwhelming urge" to throw the book into the fire. They may have got frightened, dropped the book (which was later replaced by a helpful librarian) and fled the room. They may have felt the "overwhelming urge" but been able to resist it. All of them could later have told other people about their experiences, which is how the hotel staff member - presumably one of many who know the story - heard about it.
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Old 11th September 2019, 12:44 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
For entertainment purposes only
1) Why would a ghost be pointing at random books?
2) If random books were being burnt why would the maid say "It was her"


Then why only point at one book and not make a grand sweeping gesture at an entire shelf?

1) Maybe it was random, or maybe she was moving on to the next priority book on her literary hit list?

2) Because there's some female ghost who regularly gets guests to throw a book in the fire there, and the maid was wondering if said ghost made an appearance while she, the maid, was making the snack.

3) Maybe she tried that before, and the grand sweeping gesture just results in confusion for the guests. They never actually pick up a book. They just stand there going "Yep! It really is a great library! Lotta books in here!" and maybe she doesn't have enough apparition-time to go into a full game of charades to pantomime the directive to burn all the books?

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Old 11th September 2019, 12:47 AM   #239
Matthew Ellard
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Plot Hole in Ghost Story

Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Not necessarily. The clergyman might have been the first person to actually burn the book. Other people might have seen the ghost and not had the "overwhelming urge" to throw the book into the fire. They may have got frightened, dropped the book (which was later replaced by a helpful librarian) and fled the room. They may have felt the "overwhelming urge" but been able to resist it. All of them could later have told other people about their experiences, which is how the hotel staff member - presumably one of many who know the story - heard about it.
For entertainment purposes only
Hang on....why do we need the book at all. Couldn't previous ghost victims simply complain to reception......."By the way there is a female ghost upstairs in the library who is annoyingly pointing at books all night. I want a discount on my room bill"
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Old 11th September 2019, 12:54 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Not necessarily. The clergyman might have been the first person to actually burn the book. Other people might have seen the ghost and not had the "overwhelming urge" to throw the book into the fire. They may have got frightened, dropped the book (which was later replaced by a helpful librarian) and fled the room. They may have felt the "overwhelming urge" but been able to resist it. All of them could later have told other people about their experiences, which is how the hotel staff member - presumably one of many who know the story - heard about it.
That's possible, too.

I'm more partial to the theory, though, that the ghost was ruthlessly bullied as a child by Rudyard Kipling, and having recently read Marie Condo's "The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up: The Japanese Art of Decluttering and Organizing", realizes that all those Kipling books in her space most certainly do not "spark joy" and absolutely must go, so she attempts to enlist the assistance of anyone who comes in the library in their destruction.
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