ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Closed Thread
Old 17th April 2018, 07:02 AM   #2241
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 45,732
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
But it ain’t fluffy dust or porous “ice” either!
Correct. It's solid ice.

Quote:
Rock is harder than ice in the example I gave to you, no Ziggurat?
And?

Quote:
PS you are aware of the analogs they were testing to simulate the surface of a comet?
Yes. Packed snow and aerated concrete. Do you know what aerated concrete is? Hint: I just gave you a hint.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 07:24 AM   #2242
JeanTate
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,321
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
but for current to flow in the loops there must be a potential difference and in a plasma this would be because of seperation of charges.
Over in the CosmoQuest forum, there is an excellent thread, Plasma Physics for Dummies (by tusenfem).

Please ask your questions of this kind over there, and do not spam this thread - on SAFIRE - with such OT posts.

Thank you.
JeanTate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 07:31 AM   #2243
JeanTate
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,321
Bump.
Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
Sol88: the existence of "electric currents in space" has been known for ~a century, and was first confirmed via in situ measurements around the dawn of the Space Age (i.e. 1950s). As every ISF member who has been following your posts here for some time knows you know (see, for example, tusenfem's recent post). May we use the word "lie" then?

If you are truly interested in aspects of plasma astrophysics other than to do with the Sun and its immediate environs, please post in an appropriate ISF thread, and do not derail the discussion of SAFIRE.

So, back to SAFIRE: where, in space, is the equivalent of the cable(s) which fed power to the ball in SAFIRE (i.e. which constitute "the electric current which powers the Sun")?

Where does the SAFIRE team publish details of the density, composition, and temperature gradients of the medium surrounding the ball? Comparisons with what's known about those around the Sun?
My bold, my hilite.

Sol88, would you please answer these questions on SAFIRE (the explicit topic of this thread)? If you don't know the answers, please say so.

Thanks.
JeanTate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 07:50 AM   #2244
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 45,732
Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
Bump.

My bold, my hilite.

Sol88, would you please answer these questions on SAFIRE (the explicit topic of this thread)? If you don't know the answers, please say so.

Thanks.
NASA has been suppressing the evidence, but pictures of the sun's external power source have leaked:

__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 07:53 AM   #2245
Lukraak_Sisser
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,560
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
And that’s the difference between the EU and big bangers!

We believe it does without making fairytales up.
True true, fairy tales have a good structure, are well written, clearly have something of worth to tell, are internally consistent and are usually fun to read for everyone.

The EU has none of that.

On the other hand, the EU also lacks any actual evidence, mathematics, proof or actual consistent predictions, like normal science does.
Lukraak_Sisser is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 09:16 AM   #2246
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,162
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Correct. It's solid ice.



And?



Yes. Packed snow and aerated concrete. Do you know what aerated concrete is? Hint: I just gave you a hint.
Solid “ice” you say, interesting!

And did the penetrator...you know penetrate into those analogs?

Did they get any of those analogs so hard the penetrator recoiled of the surface after each hammer strike?

Did they expect highly porous “ice” dust mixture?

Did they expect ROCK?
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator

Last edited by Sol88; 17th April 2018 at 09:18 AM.
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 09:46 AM   #2247
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 45,732
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Solid “ice” you say, interesting!

And did the penetrator...you know penetrate into those analogs?
They were not analogues for solid ice.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 09:51 AM   #2248
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,162
Close ziggurat but i’d say more along these type of power lines

MAGNETIC ROPE OBSERVED FOR THE FIRST TIME BETWEEN SATURN AND THE SUN

Though birkeland current would a better and fairer description.

So we most definitely have the power line part.
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 09:55 AM   #2249
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,162
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
They were not analogues for solid ice.

So a fail then, on the whole expectation of how hard a cometary nucleus is?

Or success in establishing comets are harder then expected? In support of
Quote:
Our mapping reveals strong latitudinal dependences for emplaced units and a highly heterogeneous surface. Layered bedrock units that represent the exposed nucleus of 67P/C-G are dominant at southern latitudes, while topographically smooth, dust covered regions dominate the Northern hemisphere.


Or are we heading toward another
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator

Last edited by Sol88; 17th April 2018 at 10:02 AM.
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 09:55 AM   #2250
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 45,732
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Close ziggurat but i’d say more along these type of power lines

MAGNETIC ROPE OBSERVED FOR THE FIRST TIME BETWEEN SATURN AND THE SUN

Though birkeland current would a better and fairer description.

So we most definitely have the power line part.
Does that mean... SATURN powers the sun?
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 10:04 AM   #2251
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,162
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Does that mean... SATURN powers the sun?
Does it?

It does mean the are power cables running between the two!
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 10:33 AM   #2252
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 45,732
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Does it?

It does mean the are power cables running between the two!
But you don't even know which way energy is flowing, let alone how much.

So does Saturn power the sun? If so, how does Saturn generate that much power? If not, then what does? And why can't we see whatever the power source is? Not the cables, the power source.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 10:40 AM   #2253
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 45,732
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
So a fail then, on the whole expectation of how hard a cometary nucleus is?
So what? Does that mistake mean comets are made of rock blasted off earth by lightning from Venus?

Hint: No, it doesn't.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 10:51 AM   #2254
tusenfem
Master Poster
 
tusenfem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,629
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
but for current to flow in the loops there must be a potential difference and in a plasma this would be because of seperation of charges.
NO!!

For goodness sake, for someone who claims the universe is electrc you don't know squad about electrodynamics or plasma physics.
__________________
20 minutes into the future
This message is bra-bra-brought to you by z-z-z-zik zak
And-And-And I'm going to be back with you - on Network 23 after these real-real-real-really exciting messages

(Max Headroom)
follow me on twitter: @tusenfem, or follow Rosetta Plasma Consortium: @Rosetta_RPC
tusenfem is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 02:16 PM   #2255
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,435
Thumbs down The usual lies of ice in quotes when we have detected ices on comets

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
But it ain’t fluffy dust or porous “ice” either!
18 April 2018: The usual lies of ice in quotes when we have detected ices on comets.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 02:18 PM   #2256
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,162
Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
NO!!

For goodness sake, for someone who claims the universe is electrc you don't know squad about electrodynamics or plasma physics.
Allright, let her rip sport. Tell us all about the magnetic fields and the intense flow of electric current inside coronal loops.
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 02:23 PM   #2257
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,435
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Correct. It's solid ice.
The paper (that Sol88 has cited several times!) on the MUPUS results is
Thermal and mechanical properties of the near-surface layers of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko
Quote:
Thermal and mechanical material properties determine comet evolution and even solar system formation because comets are considered remnant volatile-rich planetesimals. Using data from the Multipurpose Sensors for Surface and Sub-Surface Science (MUPUS) instrument package gathered at the Philae landing site Abydos on comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko, we found the diurnal temperature to vary between 90 and 130 K. The surface emissivity was 0.97, and the local thermal inertia was 85 ± 35 J m−2 K−1s-1/2. The MUPUS thermal probe did not fully penetrate the near-surface layers, suggesting a local resistance of the ground to penetration of >4 megapascals, equivalent to >2 megapascal uniaxial compressive strength. A sintered near-surface microporous dust-ice layer with a porosity of 30 to 65% is consistent with the data.
More fully, this is solid ice mixed with dust that has gone through several heating and cooling cycles as expected for a comet.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 02:24 PM   #2258
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,162
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
But you don't even know which way energy is flowing, let alone how much.

So does Saturn power the sun? If so, how does Saturn generate that much power? If not, then what does? And why can't we see whatever the power source is? Not the cables, the power source.
It flows both ways! As Scott has said in is model of birkeland currents!

The power source? No one really knows but tusenfems explination of how intense electric currents will have a bearing on my answer.
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 02:28 PM   #2259
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,435
Thumbs down Wants astronomer to be as insanely deluded as him about comets

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Did they expect ROCK?
18 April 2018: Wants astronomer to be as insanely deluded as him about comets.
50 years of evidence had already shown that comets are ices and dust so it would be literally insane to design a probe to hammer into rock.

Astronomers are not ignorant, deluded liars as in the Thunderbolt cult.

18 November 2010: The lies, failures and successes of Thunderbolts Deep Impact predictions by Wal Thornhill
2 December 2014: Sol88 does not notice that Wal Thornhill narrates an ignorant and deluded video about 67P!
18 December 2014: The bad science and delusions in Newton’s Electric Clockwork Solar System by Wal Thornhill.
5 January 2015: Wal Thornhill makes up fantasies about comets

10th April 2015: The ignorance, delusions and lies in the Thunderbolts web site, videos, etc.
13 April 2018: A couple of the delusions in Scott's Birkeland current paper.

The electric comet delusion has at least 45 years without a scientific electric comet model or observations to support it !

Getting lose to 3 years of the fear of doing basic physics: 25 June 2015 Sol88: Use a impact calculator to calculate the size of the crater on a comet made of rock by the Deep Impact impactor.

Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock.

826 items of ignorance, idiocy (citing irrelevant mainstream papers), delusion and lies dating from 29 August 2016 to 13 April 2018 (maybe hundreds more in the last 8 years!)
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 02:30 PM   #2260
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,162
Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
The paper (that Sol88 has cited several times!) on the MUPUS results is
Thermal and mechanical properties of the near-surface layers of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

More fully, this is solid ice mixed with dust that has gone through several heating and cooling cycles as expected for a comet.
So back to the deep fried ice cream model then? :mduh



Quote:
"A comet is like deep fried ice cream," said Murthy Gudipati of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, corresponding author of a recent study appearing in The Journal of Physical Chemistry. "The crust is made of crystalline ice, while the interior is colder and more porous. The organics are like a final layer of chocolate on top."
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 02:35 PM   #2261
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,435
Thumbs down A "comets are harder then expected" partial lie

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Or success in establishing comets are harder then expected?
18 April 2018: A "comets are harder then expected" partial lie
Rosetta with MUPUS and its other instruments established that 1 place on the surface of 1 comet was ices and dust that was harder MUPUS-PEN was designed to hammer into. We will have to wait for other comet missions to see if this result is specific to 67P.

The lie part is denying all of the other data returned about 67P.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 02:40 PM   #2262
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,435
Thumbs down Stupidity of citing an article on comets made of ices and dust and lying about it

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
So back to the deep fried ice cream model then? :mduh
18 April 2018: Stupidity of citing an article on comets made of ices and dust and lying about it.
He is even dumb enough to make the lie explicit with his quote: "A comet is like deep fried ice cream," (my emphasis). It is a simile not a model.

The idiocy gets worse as the rest of the article debunks his many comet delusions.
Why Comets Are Like Deep Fried Ice Cream
Quote:
Researchers already knew that comets have soft interiors and seemingly hard crusts. NASA's Deep Impact and the European Space Agency's Rosetta spacecraft both inspected comets up close, finding evidence of soft, porous interiors. Last November, Rosetta's Philae probe bounced to a landing on the surface of 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko, confirming that comets have a hard surface. The black, soot-like coats of comets, made up of organic molecules and dust, had also been seen before by the Deep Impact mission.

Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock.

Last edited by Reality Check; 17th April 2018 at 02:42 PM.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 02:40 PM   #2263
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,162
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
So what? Does that mistake mean comets are made of rock blasted off earth by lightning from Venus?

Hint: No, it doesn't.
Not necessarily but that they are NOT dirtysnowballs any more either as stated here (again):

Quote:
11 CONCLUSIONS The classical model of comets as dirty ice balls (Whipple 1950)has focused most models of comets on ices. The more we visit comets, the dustier they appear. With 67P’s dust-to-water ratio of 6 (and possibly larger), it is now necessary to spend much more time in modelling the non-volatile matrices with a modest content of ices inside. Jean-Pierre Bibring proposes a new word naming this stuff, ‘organic(e)s’, where the modest content of ices (within brackets) well summarizes the dominant non-volatile component.
Unexpected and significant findings in comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko: an interdisciplinary view

So maybe a real scientist would go back into the lab and do the analog testing again and find what type of “ice/s” would make the MUPUS-PEN recoil of off the nucleus with a modest content of ice and a DOMINANT non-volatile component!

Few buzz words they should use for guidance in designing there anolog for testing would be findings of the return sample from Wild 2, well consolidated material, bedrock.... you get the picture.
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator

Last edited by Sol88; 17th April 2018 at 02:41 PM.
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 03:00 PM   #2264
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,435
Exclamation A delusion that Saturn powers the Sun

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Close ziggurat but i’d say more along these type of power lines

MAGNETIC ROPE OBSERVED FOR THE FIRST TIME BETWEEN SATURN AND THE SUN
Time to document items of ignorance, delusions and lies about the SAFIRE experiment as in the electric comet delusion thread.
18 April 2018: A delusion that Saturn powers the Sun

18 April 2018: A delusion that magnetic ropes are a "type of power line".
Wikipedia redirects 'magnetic rope' to the Birkeland current article which are currents caused by the solar wind in the magnetosphere and ionosphere of a planet (only detected on Earth). The solar wind is not a current or "power line"

18 April 2018: Cannot understand that a title is not an article.
The article makes it clear that its title is hyped or shortened! It could better be "MAGNETIC ROPE OBSERVED FOR THE FIRST TIME BETWEEN SATURN'S MAGNETIC FIELD AND THE SUN'S SOLAR WIND"
It is "flux rope" at Saturn, flux transfer events at Saturn and "reconnection of the magnetic fields of Saturn with sun". There is no magnetic {flux} rope between the Sun and Saturn.

Last edited by Reality Check; 17th April 2018 at 03:07 PM.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 03:12 PM   #2265
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,435
Thumbs down Repeats a delusion that Saturn powers the Sun

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
It flows both ways!
Repeats a delusion that Saturn powers the Sun

18 April 2018: Stupidity of citing a clearly deluded Scott paper on Birkeland currents.
13 April 2018: A couple of the delusions in Scott's Birkeland current paper.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 03:21 PM   #2266
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,162
Please point out where excactly I said Saturn power the say ya drop kick!

Flux ropes, stringy thing, field aligned currents, force free currents, Birkeland currents, flux tubes, flux transfer events.....etc etc

ELECTRIC UNIVERSE
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 03:34 PM   #2267
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 45,732
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
It flows both ways!
Evidence?

Quote:
As Scott has said in is model of birkeland currents!
That's... not evidence.

Quote:
The power source? No one really knows
How is that possible? How can a power source so large be completely invisible?

The most fundamental property of the sun, its total power output, is a complete mystery to you. And you wonder why nobody takes your ideas seriously.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 04:27 PM   #2268
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,435
Thumbs down A lie about his "i’d say more along these type of power lines" post

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Please point out where excactly I said Saturn power the say ya drop kick!
18 April 2018: A lie about his "i’d say more along these type of power lines" post
Ziggurat pointed out the stupidity of power lines as in the SAFIRE experiment powering the Sun. That post replies to Ziggurat with "power lines" from Saturn to the Sun.

Last edited by Reality Check; 17th April 2018 at 04:30 PM.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 04:44 PM   #2269
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,162
Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
18 April 2018: A lie about his "i’d say more along these type of power lines" post
Ziggurat pointed out the stupidity of power lines as in the SAFIRE experiment powering the Sun. That post replies to Ziggurat with "power lines" from Saturn to the Sun.
Did that article say that Saturn is powering the Sun?

The paper if you’d like to read it Flux transfer event observation at Saturn’s dayside magnetopausebytheCassinispacecraft

Carefully, rc. Might be a bit scary for you.

So at least we’ll knock the first item off of your stupid lists.
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 05:10 PM   #2270
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,162
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post



How is that possible? How can a power source so large be completely invisible?

The most fundamental property of the sun, its total power output, is a complete mystery to you. And you wonder why nobody takes your ideas seriously.
Really are totally cluesless after all the years ziggurat!

Disappointing.

And because you hav ezero interest in the EU you will remain ignorant.

Like your Saturn powers the Sun clanger!
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 05:27 PM   #2271
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,162
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Did that article say that Saturn is powering the Sun?

The paper if you’d like to read it Flux transfer event observation at Saturn’s dayside magnetopausebytheCassinispacecraft

Carefully, rc. Might be a bit scary for you.

So at least we’ll knock the first item off of your stupid lists.
These cosmic power lines are funnily enough also observerd at Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Saturn and COMETS!


SAFIRE are on to something here..
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 05:50 PM   #2272
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,435
Thumbs down A lie that there is an article saying that Saturn is powering the Sun

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Did that article say that Saturn is powering the Sun?
18 April 2018: A lie about his "i’d say more along these type of power lines" post

18 April 2018: A lie that there is an article saying that Saturn is powering the Sun when that is his delusion abut the article.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 06:12 PM   #2273
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 45,732
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Really are totally cluesless after all the years ziggurat!

Disappointing.

And because you hav ezero interest in the EU you will remain ignorant.

Like your Saturn powers the Sun clanger!
You said you didn't know what powered the sun, not me. You confessed your own ignorance.

There is no coherent EU theory for solar power. All you have is the equivalent of saying that electricity comes from wall sockets.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 07:38 PM   #2274
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,162
haha ha good one sport!

You may have noticed my interest in the electric comet thread? Once the data proves it’s not a sublimating dirtysnowball and they HAVE to look at a new model and that PLASMA plays a far more important role than previously believed.

Hello SAFIRE and the electric Sun!

Then we can move on from there and find the power source.


Though if your interested on the best lead and can stomach a little more thunderbolts, thev’e got a good lead going!

Or you can start with a peeer reviewed paper Width and variation of the ENA flux ribbon observed by the Interstellar Boundary Explorer.

Quote:
Because the enhancement occurs over a broad energy range, ion fluxes of several origins (i.e., decelerated solar wind, pickup ions, and accelerated pickup ions) must be enhanced along the LOS.
Kinda looks familiar. Your smart i’m Sure you’ll get the picture
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator

Last edited by Sol88; 17th April 2018 at 07:50 PM.
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th April 2018, 08:06 PM   #2275
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,435
Thumbs down A lie that a Interstellar Boundary Explorer paper is about SAFIRE

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
You may have noticed my interest in the electric comet thread?
826 items of ignorance, idiocy (citing irrelevant mainstream papers), delusion and lies dating from 29 August 2016 to 13 April 2018 (maybe hundreds more in the last 8 years!)
And now we have the lies, delusions and Thunderbolts cult idiocy in this post.

10th April 2015: The ignorance, delusions and lies in the Thunderbolts web site, videos, etc.

18 April 2018: A lie that a Interstellar Boundary Explorer paper is relevant to SAFIRE.

This is actual science.
Width and Variation of the ENA Flux Ribbon Observed by the Interstellar Boundary Explorer
Quote:
The dominant feature in Interstellar Boundary Explorer (IBEX) sky maps of heliospheric energetic neutral atom (ENA) flux is a ribbon of enhanced flux that extends over a broad range of ecliptic latitudes and longitudes. It is narrow (~20° average width) but long (extending over 300° in the sky) and is observed at energies from 0.2 to 6 kilo–electron volts. We demonstrate that the flux in the ribbon is a factor of 2 to 3 times higher than that of the more diffuse, globally distributed heliospheric ENA flux. The ribbon is most pronounced at ~1 kilo–electron volt. The average width of the ribbon is nearly constant, independent of energy. The ribbon is likely the result of an enhancement in the combined solar wind and pickup ion populations in the heliosheath.
This is the heliosphere with the energetic neutral atom ribbon at its outer edges beyond Pluto. The SAFIRE experiment is basically a ball for the inside a small chamber. Think about how insanely big it would have to be to include Pluto !

A Sun scaled to 1 cm gives Neptune a distance of 3.235967 kilometers away!
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th April 2018, 01:03 AM   #2276
tusenfem
Master Poster
 
tusenfem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,629
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Allright, let her rip sport. Tell us all about the magnetic fields and the intense flow of electric current inside coronal loops.
Maxwell-Ampère's Law

curl(B) = mu0 J + c-2 dE/dt
__________________
20 minutes into the future
This message is bra-bra-brought to you by z-z-z-zik zak
And-And-And I'm going to be back with you - on Network 23 after these real-real-real-really exciting messages

(Max Headroom)
follow me on twitter: @tusenfem, or follow Rosetta Plasma Consortium: @Rosetta_RPC
tusenfem is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th April 2018, 02:02 AM   #2277
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,162
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
It flows both ways! As Scott has said in is model of birkeland currents!

The power source? No one really knows but tusenfems explination of how intense electric currents will have a bearing on my answer.

See tusenfems above post.
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th April 2018, 03:30 AM   #2278
tusenfem
Master Poster
 
tusenfem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,629
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
See tusenfems above post.
My "above" post has nothing to do with your quote.

And energy cannot flow "in both directions".
__________________
20 minutes into the future
This message is bra-bra-brought to you by z-z-z-zik zak
And-And-And I'm going to be back with you - on Network 23 after these real-real-real-really exciting messages

(Max Headroom)
follow me on twitter: @tusenfem, or follow Rosetta Plasma Consortium: @Rosetta_RPC
tusenfem is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th April 2018, 05:16 AM   #2279
JeanTate
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,321
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
haha ha good one sport!

You may have noticed my interest in the electric comet thread? Once the data proves it’s not a sublimating dirtysnowball and they HAVE to look at a new model and that PLASMA plays a far more important role than previously believed.

Hello SAFIRE and the electric Sun!

Then we can move on from there and find the power source.


Though if your interested on the best lead and can stomach a little more thunderbolts, thev’e got a good lead going!

Or you can start with a peeer reviewed paper Width and variation of the ENA flux ribbon observed by the Interstellar Boundary Explorer.



Kinda looks familiar. Your smart i’m Sure you’ll get the picture
I was browsing astro-ph last night, as I often do, and came across A Majority of Solar Wind Intervals Support Ion-Driven Instabilities.

Seems to me this deals a death blow to the Electric Sun (ES) idea, and shows the SAFIRE experiment to be total codswallop (hattip to ferd; lovely word).

But I'm not the expert on ES or SAFIRE that you so obviously are, Sol88. So I'd like you to take a look at this and give me your professional opinion: do you agree that it makes mincemeat out of ES?
JeanTate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th April 2018, 05:19 AM   #2280
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,162
Sorry my bad.

Ziggurat asked where the power source for the sun was.

I gave him a few leads and said when you finally posted and answer on how the currents in the coronal loops that this would have a bearing on that question.

Quote:
Maxwell-Ampère's Law

curl(B) = mu0 J + c-2 dE/dt
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Closed Thread

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:43 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.