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Tags birtherism , Breitbart.com , donald trump , media criticism , Obama Conspiracies , Trump controversies

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Old 27th December 2016, 10:39 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Of course, dislike for ideology has always resulted in people accusing a person of being a secret African. Nothing special about it this time.
A secret African? You're bringing race into it again. Do you get that?

They accused him of not having the qualifications to be president. Nothing about race, just the left dragging in their narrative so they can divide.
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Old 27th December 2016, 10:41 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
For that matter, Trump only started talking about it years after it was proven beyond reasonable doubt that Obama was born in Hawaii. And he had also whined about how Obama could not have received good grades, how his memoirs must have been written by a white guy, and so forth. This is standard racist claptrap that has been said about successful black people over and over again (we needed a constitutional amendment to take care of the "you aren't a citizen" thing), and often about other non-white people as well.
What iron clad proof was there before the birth certificate?
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Old 27th December 2016, 11:25 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
A secret African? You're bringing race into it again. Do you get that?

They accused him of not having the qualifications to be president. Nothing about race, just the left dragging in their narrative so they can divide.
On what grounds?
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Old 27th December 2016, 11:41 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
A secret African? You're bringing race into it again. Do you get that?

They accused him of not having the qualifications to be president. Nothing about race, just the left dragging in their narrative so they can divide.
This doesn't pass the giggle test. (If only it were funny.) Trump also accused Obama of being a secret Muslim, and of being a terrorist sympathizer. And these accusations persisted even after the birth certificate was produced. The filthy liar even pretended to have sent investigators, and to have proof.

Of course these facts are waved away by the suckers, apologists, and players of the race card card.
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Old 27th December 2016, 12:11 PM   #45
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What became of Sheriff Joe and his investigation?
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Old 27th December 2016, 12:14 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
What became of Sheriff Joe and his investigation?
Still ongoing. He has more time to dedicate to it now, thankfully.
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Old 27th December 2016, 12:19 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
What became of Sheriff Joe and his investigation?
You mean the tasting of his prisoner's private parts? The reason they call him Sherriff Joe (Blow)??????
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Old 27th December 2016, 02:46 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Even if the stupid dishonest distortion about Clinton were true, this would not absolve Trump of being stupid and dishonest too. The birther nonsense was racist idiocy from the start, and saying you stupidly and thoughtlessly copied it from someone else is no excuse. Give it up. It's over.
He asked the same thing about Ted Cruz, was it racist then too? Could someone have a "racist chip" on their shoulder every time any criticism comes up? That's been the bad thing about having a Black President, anytime someone criticized him, they were immediately charged with "racism" by the Left. It worked flawlessly for 8 years, gotta give them that. But now they're beating a dead horse. The racism thing only works if your President is Black........
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Old 27th December 2016, 05:04 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
On what grounds?

Not being born in this country? Have you not been following this scandal?
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Old 27th December 2016, 05:07 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
This doesn't pass the giggle test. (If only it were funny.) Trump also accused Obama of being a secret Muslim, and of being a terrorist sympathizer. And these accusations persisted even after the birth certificate was produced. The filthy liar even pretended to have sent investigators, and to have proof.
He was a Muslim during his youth, and he does seem to have a soft spot for Islam, but all leftist have that.
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Of course these facts are waved away by the suckers, apologists, and players of the race card card.
Lol, hilarious, your side is the only one bringing up race!!!
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Old 27th December 2016, 05:22 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
He asked the same thing about Ted Cruz, was it racist then too?
First, "He said it about a Hispanic guy, too" is a terrible defense in this case.

Second, Cruz was actually born in Canada, while we've known since 2008 that Obama was born in the US. And to my knowledge, Trump never said that Cruz couldn't write and must not have had good grades.

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That's been the bad thing about having a Black President, anytime someone criticized him, they were immediately charged with "racism" by the Left.
No, it really only happened when someone was being a completely obvious racist. Even then, the so-called "liberal media" would almost always use terms like "divisive", "insensitive", or "racially controversial".
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Old 27th December 2016, 05:34 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
He was a Muslim during his youth, and he does seem to have a soft spot for Islam, but all leftist have that.
<gaping yawn>

I'd like to see if we agree on a more blatant example. Do you have a problem calling this racist...?
Originally Posted by Carl Paladino
Id like her [Michelle Obama] to return to being a male and let loose in the outback of Zimbabwe where she lives comfortably in a cave with Maxie, the gorilla.
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Old 27th December 2016, 06:24 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
What iron clad proof was there before the birth certificate?
"Iron clad" by what (or whose) standard? When Obama was first running, he presented his "short form" (note the quote marks) as proof of his citizenship and eligibility to be President; the same "short form" that allows one to get a passport, among other things, and the same thing that Romney presented in 2012. That was good enough for the DNC and to get on all 50 state ballots; what more "iron clad" was necessary, and why?

I'll also note, just in passing, how ironic it is (unintentional, I'm sure) when someone complains about how easily "leftists" throw around the accusation of "racist" to dismiss people and POVs they disagree with while he himself dismisses every political disagreement with him as "leftists!" (or, occasionally, "libs!") There's just a certain "Jenna said what?" quality about it that I find endlessly amusing...

ETA- my own opinion is that, no, being a birther doesn't necessarily mean you're a racist- but (as with Trump supporters) if you're a racist, you're more likely to be a birther. It also doesn't hurt to be as dumb as a box of rocks...
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Old 27th December 2016, 06:51 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
He was a Muslim during his youth, and he does seem to have a soft spot for Islam, but all leftist have that. Lol, hilarious, your side is the only one bringing up race!!!
I have to say, this seems less like an "argument" and more like just plain harassment.
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Old 27th December 2016, 07:37 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
He was a Muslim during his youth
You're playing fast and loose with the facts here. The othering of Obama marches on, here before our eyes.

Go ahead, prove me wrong.
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Old 27th December 2016, 08:42 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Not being born in this country? Have you not been following this scandal?
Why should he have to prove it?

There was ZERO evidence he wasn't born anywhere else except where he said he was born. Why should he have to do something the other candidates didn't have to do?
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Old 27th December 2016, 09:49 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
You're playing fast and loose with the facts here. The othering of Obama marches on, here before our eyes.

Go ahead, prove me wrong.
You missed the most important question to this line of reasoning.

"He was a muslim in his youth!"

So what?
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Old 27th December 2016, 10:07 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
A secret African? You're bringing race into it again. Do you get that?

They accused him of not having the qualifications to be president. Nothing about race, just the left dragging in their narrative so they can divide.
No, they did not accuse him of "not having the qualifications." They accused him, quite specifically, of being born in Africa and claiming to be American. In other words, quite specifically, he was accused of being a secret African. You can manage if you must to find some way out of calling that a race related suggestion, but it was always at the very least insanely stupid, and it's a sorry state when insane stupidity is not a disqualification for the presidency.
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Old 28th December 2016, 12:03 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Again, how does race slip in here.

What leftists really don't understand is the tremendous dislike for his ideology. Your side will never admit this because you use race as a divider.
Racists often do not recognize racism. I'm not suggesting you are racist though...
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Old 28th December 2016, 12:42 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Not being born in this country? Have you not been following this scandal?
Which country did they claim he had been born in?
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Old 28th December 2016, 04:56 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Originally Posted by logger View Post
A secret African? You're bringing race into it again. Do you get that?

They accused him of not having the qualifications to be president. Nothing about race, just the left dragging in their narrative so they can divide.
On what grounds?
Not being born in this country? Have you not been following this scandal?
This is a circular argument.

logger is claiming that birthers were accusing Obama of not meeting the natural born citizen requirement of being president, i.e. not being born in the country. Darat asked on what grounds do birthers accuse Obama of not having been born in the country. To which, logger replies on the grounds that Obama was not born in the country.

This does not, of course, specify the basis of why birthers felt the need to question Obama's birthplace in the first place, which is what Darat was asking for, or for the veracity with which they pursued the question. Never before had a major party's candidate's citizenship been questioned like Obama's had and certainly with no clear basis for doing so. You know, other than he was the black candidate with a funny sounding name.

So, what were the non-racist grounds for questioning Obama's place of birth?
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Old 28th December 2016, 11:04 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
This is a circular argument.

logger is claiming that birthers were accusing Obama of not meeting the natural born citizen requirement of being president, i.e. not being born in the country. Darat asked on what grounds do birthers accuse Obama of not having been born in the country. To which, logger replies on the grounds that Obama was not born in the country.

This does not, of course, specify the basis of why birthers felt the need to question Obama's birthplace in the first place, which is what Darat was asking for, or for the veracity with which they pursued the question. Never before had a major party's candidate's citizenship been questioned like Obama's had and certainly with no clear basis for doing so. You know, other than he was the black candidate with a funny sounding name.
That's not quite true - and this is a minor quibble. As I recall, Chester A Arthur faced somewhat similar questions, although they didn't go nearly as far as the birther nonsense. But certainly, no president in decades has had people ranting about how they are literally not an American.

And this is from someone who thinks that the whole "you must be a natural-born American" clause can get tossed out. After all, sine Trump is kissing up to Putin, what's the point?

Quote:
So, what were the non-racist grounds for questioning Obama's place of birth?
I'm also interested in seeing people tie themselves into knots trying to answer this question.
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Old 28th December 2016, 11:16 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
That's not quite true - and this is a minor quibble. As I recall, Chester A Arthur faced somewhat similar questions, although they didn't go nearly as far as the birther nonsense. But certainly, no president in decades has had people ranting about how they are literally not an American.

And this is from someone who thinks that the whole "you must be a natural-born American" clause can get tossed out. After all, sine Trump is kissing up to Putin, what's the point?



I'm also interested in seeing people tie themselves into knots trying to answer this question.
A minor quibble with your minor quibble. Arthur never ran for president, his issues came up when he was VP candidate in 1880 and was easily dismissed as made up BS by a political rival.
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Old 28th December 2016, 11:42 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
A secret African? You're bringing race into it again. Do you get that?
... Um... Yeah, that's exactly what they accused him of. Also, you just broke your trolling stance because if "secret African" is bringing race into it, & what they were saying is that he's a "secret African", it follows that it was racial.
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Old 28th December 2016, 12:58 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
That's not quite true - and this is a minor quibble.
Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
A minor quibble with your minor quibble.
Consider me quibbled. My point still stands.
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Old 28th December 2016, 01:03 PM   #66
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No, Donald Trump did not start his political career with birtherism


True!!! he started it with a Platinum spoon up his fundament!!!!!
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Old 28th December 2016, 01:25 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
A minor quibble with your minor quibble. Arthur never ran for president, his issues came up when he was VP candidate in 1880 and was easily dismissed as made up BS by a political rival.
Fair point.

Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Consider me quibbled. My point still stands.
Yep. It's a very minor issue, and only of interest to history nerds. As I said, I consider Trump a white supremacist and an admitted sexual assaulter - among many other negative traits.
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Old 28th December 2016, 02:34 PM   #68
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The funny thing is, I was recently reading some comments by Barack Obama talking about when he was running for U.S. Senator from Illinois. That some of his campaign staff was concerned about him campaigning in southern Illinois. Southern Illinois is not only very conservative, but is almost small-town Southern in outlook. Yet he said when he began campaigning in the area he was treated very well. He said that was pretty encouraging, "Here I was, a black guy with a funny sounding name..."

One of the other posters commented to Logger, "The othering of Obama marches on." I see that as a huge part of the issue here, 'the other,' 'us vs. them,' this whole tribal mentality. And I don't think Logger gets it. Worse, he thinks he does.

What am I trying to say? Despite being a black guy with a funny sounding name, Barack Obama is one of us!

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Old 28th December 2016, 04:21 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Again, you're the ones who make it all about race. Look what my side did to hillary, and many on your side said it was about her gender. Look your side has used race and gender to divide this country over and over. Republicans never even discuss race or gender, its all about ideology. Even this election was about policies of the left, you lost big because of it and I hope you keep this nonsense up.


Well that's just it, it's not strong at all, its in fact terribly weak. I accuse the left of it because you're obsessed with it. Everything is about race with your side, that tells me your side has ingrained racist tendencys. And we all,know what the dem party sprang up from. Maybe it's some sort of white gilt?

Because I'm not a racist, I don't see race in everything I look at.
Not explicitly using the word 'race' in no way, shape, or form, prevents a statement from being racist, or a line of reasoning being fueled by racism. Refusing to discuss the aspects of racism doesn't mean one isn't racist, nor does it make racism go away.

All you have is an assertion that it's 'the libs fault'. It isn't. Birtherism was fueled mainly by racism, but also by stupidity and political opportunism. If you refuse to admit there is a racial element at all, then you've got zero, absolutely zero, credibility on any race issue. It doesn't matter how much validity there is in the observation that racial issues can be, and are, overstated. If you refuse to recognize where it's plainly an issue, then you've taken yourself out of the conversation.

You want to change how libs talk about race? (Rhetorical question; I'm very aware that logger doesn't care to do this.) Then be part of the conversation rather than just denial. With clear examples like birtherism, it's the only way forward.


Quote:
The reasoning is nothing but emotion, even skeptic tanks reasoning is emotion, no different than yours. Assertions is all you have with birtherism being racist, you've admitted it with "there's nothing else it could be".

The process of elimination and going with the best evidence isn't emotion.
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Old 28th December 2016, 04:53 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
<gaping yawn>

I'd like to see if we agree on a more blatant example. Do you have a problem calling this racist...?
No, it looks more like transgendered bigotry. Is that such a thing?
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Old 28th December 2016, 05:01 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
"Iron clad" by what (or whose) standard? When Obama was first running, he presented his "short form" (note the quote marks) as proof of his citizenship and eligibility to be President; the same "short form" that allows one to get a passport, among other things, and the same thing that Romney presented in 2012. That was good enough for the DNC and to get on all 50 state ballots; what more "iron clad" was necessary, and why?

I'll also note, just in passing, how ironic it is (unintentional, I'm sure) when someone complains about how easily "leftists" throw around the accusation of "racist" to dismiss people and POVs they disagree with while he himself dismisses every political disagreement with him as "leftists!" (or, occasionally, "libs!") There's just a certain "Jenna said what?" quality about it that I find endlessly amusing...
Im sure you find it amusing, but I have no problem identifying who I am. The problem seems to be leftists hiding who they are then simply "calling" them on it?
As far as calling out the lefts racist obsession with racism, I don't think they're being dismissive, they are using an ugly term to further their agenda, which is incredibly dishonest.

ETA- my own opinion is that, no, being a birther doesn't necessarily mean you're a racist- but (as with Trump supporters) if you're a racist, you're more likely to be a birther. It also doesn't hurt to be as dumb as a box of rocks...[/quote]
I would counter with, being an Obama supporter doesn't mean your a racist, but it does mean you'll most likely accuse others of being a racist and dumb too.
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Old 28th December 2016, 05:03 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
I have to say, this seems less like an "argument" and more like just plain harassment.
I wouldn't have guessed it any other way. Its also a terrible rebuttal to my points, but at least you didn't call me a racist!
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Old 28th December 2016, 05:04 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Why should he have to prove it?

There was ZERO evidence he wasn't born anywhere else except where he said he was born. Why should he have to do something the other candidates didn't have to do?
The left would say because he's black.
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Old 28th December 2016, 05:05 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
You missed the most important question to this line of reasoning.

"He was a muslim in his youth!"

So what?
So are you and varoche in disagreement here?
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Old 28th December 2016, 05:07 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
No, they did not accuse him of "not having the qualifications." They accused him, quite specifically, of being born in Africa and claiming to be American. In other words, quite specifically, he was accused of being a secret African. You can manage if you must to find some way out of calling that a race related suggestion, but it was always at the very least insanely stupid, and it's a sorry state when insane stupidity is not a disqualification for the presidency.
Lol
Because they wanted to question his being legitimately president?

Or it could have been because he was black.
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Old 28th December 2016, 05:10 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Racists often do not recognize racism. I'm not suggesting you are racist though...
Really, they don't know when they feel superiority to another? What should we call people who wrongly accuse others?

Last edited by logger; 28th December 2016 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 28th December 2016, 05:12 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Which country did they claim he had been born in?
Kenya?
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Old 28th December 2016, 05:17 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
This is a circular argument.

logger is claiming that birthers were accusing Obama of not meeting the natural born citizen requirement of being president, i.e. not being born in the country. Darat asked on what grounds do birthers accuse Obama of not having been born in the country. To which, logger replies on the grounds that Obama was not born in the country.

This does not, of course, specify the basis of why birthers felt the need to question Obama's birthplace in the first place, which is what Darat was asking for, or for the veracity with which they pursued the question. Never before had a major party's candidate's citizenship been questioned like Obama's had and certainly with no clear basis for doing so. You know, other than he was the black candidate with a funny sounding name.

So, what were the non-racist grounds for questioning Obama's place of birth?
Lots of things clouded Obamas past, birth, social security number, education. People who are against him want to know these things. When your enemy's feel they have something to tarnish you, they pull all the stops to get it done.

You do realize this is called hardball politics. It was done to hillary and get this, wait for it, its going to be done to Trump. If Ben Carson was elected it would have been done to him, not because he's black but because people oppose his politics.
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Old 28th December 2016, 05:21 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by 332nd View Post
... Um... Yeah, that's exactly what they accused him of. Also, you just broke your trolling stance because if "secret African" is bringing race into it, & what they were saying is that he's a "secret African", it follows that it was racial.
Only because they thought he was born in Kenya Africa, you do understand that?
And what is this accusation of trolling, we're having a decent conversation here and you have to throw that in. It certsinly is the fall back response when your side gets push back.
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Old 28th December 2016, 05:25 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The funny thing is, I was recently reading some comments by Barack Obama talking about when he was running for U.S. Senator from Illinois. That some of his campaign staff was concerned about him campaigning in southern Illinois. Southern Illinois is not only very conservative, but is almost small-town Southern in outlook. Yet he said when he began campaigning in the area he was treated very well. He said that was pretty encouraging, "Here I was, a black guy with a funny sounding name..."

One of the other posters commented to Logger, "The othering of Obama marches on." I see that as a huge part of the issue here, 'the other,' 'us vs. them,' this whole tribal mentality. And I don't think Logger gets it. Worse, he thinks he does.

What am I trying to say? Despite being a black guy with a funny sounding name, Barack Obama is one of us!
lol hilarious.

What you're not getting along with plenty on your side, this is about politics!!!
Obama is clearly a great guy, a great father and a person who took on a very difficult job. You and your side do him a disservice by constantly accusing his political enemy's of not liking him because of RACE. It is about his politics!

Last edited by logger; 28th December 2016 at 05:34 PM.
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