ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags birtherism , Breitbart.com , donald trump , media criticism , Obama Conspiracies , Trump controversies

Reply
Old 31st December 2016, 03:26 PM   #161
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,085
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Rejected evidence? You mean your opinion that it couldn't be anything else, is that your evidence?


It's not about me, you and others have said the evidence shows bertherism is racist. I've said no, its political. Show your evidence of it being racist.

You're saying you refuse to discuss what evidence could possibly convince you anything is racist at all. Why? Are you afraid of setting a bar we might clear?

What is racism logger?
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2016, 03:30 PM   #162
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
It doesn't need to be. The gorilla bit is sufficient.
Is he a racists for it?
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2016, 03:33 PM   #163
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
You're saying you refuse to discuss what evidence could possibly convince you anything is racist at all. Why? Are you afraid of setting a bar we might clear?

What is racism logger?
That isn't what we're discussing, but by all means, set the bar as it pertains to bertherism being racist. Go ahead, I've been waiting this whole thread, you just can't seem to do it, can you?
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2016, 03:41 PM   #164
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,085
Originally Posted by logger View Post
That isn't what we're discussing, but by all means, set the bar as it pertains to bertherism being racist. Go ahead, I've been waiting this whole thread, you just can't seem to do it, can you?
You're not arguing in good faith. By your own words, I and others should safely conclude that nothing would convince you. You refuse to come to any understanding of terms even.

As I said, you've taken yourself out of the conversation, and it's all your own doing. How can we discuss if something is racist or not when we can't even set down what we agree constitutes racism or how to tell if something is or not? We can't. You're just posturing and not even considering the question.
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2016, 03:54 PM   #165
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 40,887
Originally Posted by logger View Post
That isn't what we're discussing, but by all means, set the bar as it pertains to bertherism being racist. Go ahead, I've been waiting this whole thread, you just can't seem to do it, can you?
If you won't concede that calling a black person a gorilla is racist, then nothing will convince you that anything at all is racist.

No point setting a bar with such a stubborn fixation.

In fact, I would suggest that your refusal to view the "gorilla" comment as racist suggests you have racist tendencies. I'm going only on your words. Show that I'm wrong.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2016, 05:41 PM   #166
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
You're not arguing in good faith. By your own words, I and others should safely conclude that nothing would convince you. You refuse to come to any understanding of terms even.

As I said, you've taken yourself out of the conversation, and it's all your own doing. How can we discuss if something is racist or not when we can't even set down what we agree constitutes racism or how to tell if something is or not? We can't. You're just posturing and not even considering the question.
Look where I've gotten you to go. All I've asked is for you to put up the evidence that bertherism is racist. You can't and you know it, admit you are wrong!

Last edited by logger; 31st December 2016 at 05:50 PM.
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2016, 05:49 PM   #167
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
If you won't concede that calling a black person a gorilla is racist, then nothing will convince you that anything at all is racist.
He said she should go live in a cave with a gorilla.
Quote:
No point setting a bar with such a stubborn fixation.
Don't worry about accusing me of having a fixation, just put up evidence that bertherism is racist.
Quote:
In fact, I would suggest that your refusal to view the "gorilla" comment as racist suggests you have racist tendencies. I'm going only on your words. Show that I'm wrong.
Ahh here we finally are, now I have racist tendencies. Lol
I've spent a long time in this thread to show how the left just throws these labels around, this is just the latest proof. Your side just continues to abuse this word and use it to further your own selfish desires.
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2016, 10:14 PM   #168
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 16,985
Originally Posted by logger View Post
He said she should go live in a cave with a gorilla.

Don't worry about accusing me of having a fixation, just put up evidence that bertherism is racist.


Ahh here we finally are, now I have racist tendencies. Lol
I've spent a long time in this thread to show how the left just throws these labels around, this is just the latest proof. Your side just continues to abuse this word and use it to further your own selfish desires.
If you can't spell "birtherism" correctly it does not bode well for any of your other claims.

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2016, 10:46 PM   #169
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
If you can't spell "birtherism" correctly it does not bode well for any of your other claims.

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk
Really prove it!

Prove its racist, prove birtherism was about obama's race.

Come on leftist, put up an argument that doesn't include your usual emotional
BS!
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2016, 11:47 PM   #170
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 16,985
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Really prove it!

Prove its racist, prove birtherism was about obama's race.

Come on leftist, put up an argument that doesn't include your usual emotional
BS!
First, I see you corrected your typo. Well done!

Second, I am not a leftist.

Third, it is blatantly racist.

Fourth, you are the only one becoming emotional. The only emotion I am experiencing is amusement at Americans electing a cartoon as president. Comedy gold.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2017, 06:57 AM   #171
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
First, I see you corrected your typo. Well done!

Second, I am not a leftist.

Third, it is blatantly racist.

Fourth, you are the only one becoming emotional. The only emotion I am experiencing is amusement at Americans electing a cartoon as president. Comedy gold.
If birtherism is so blatantly racist, it should be easily proved?
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2017, 08:39 AM   #172
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Since none can offer the slightest proof other than it must be, I'd like to explain what's going on here like so many other issues the left trips on.

The left starts out being insulted that anyone could possibly disagree with their emotionally charged ideology. They think it has to be racism even though there is no proof of it because there is no way people could disagree with their positions on a political bases. If hillary was elected, we would move form being labeled racist to hating women. this is the narrative the left has to take to explain to themselves why anyone could possibly disagree with them.

Once again, theirs is an emotionally charged ideology and I was amazed to come to this skeptics site and see liberalism being defended through logic and proof, it cannot be done, which is why we get to the nasty labels and name calling.

Birtherism being racist is just the latest narrative to push a failed ideology.
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2017, 08:58 AM   #173
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,632
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Since none can offer the slightest proof other than it must be, I'd like to explain what's going on here like so many other issues the left trips on.

The left starts out being insulted that anyone could possibly disagree with their emotionally charged ideology. They think it has to be racism even though there is no proof of it because there is no way people could disagree with their positions on a political bases. If hillary was elected, we would move form being labeled racist to hating women. this is the narrative the left has to take to explain to themselves why anyone could possibly disagree with them.

Once again, theirs is an emotionally charged ideology and I was amazed to come to this skeptics site and see liberalism being defended through logic and proof, it cannot be done, which is why we get to the nasty labels and name calling.

Birtherism being racist is just the latest narrative to push a failed ideology.
I'm cool with the idea that while birtherism isn't necessarily racist, it is inherently quite stupid.
__________________
A sentimental materialization of the kind of quasi‐rural bonhomie that seemed a millimeter from actual goose‐stepping and brown‐shirt uproars of bumpkin fascism.

Tom McGuane
Resume is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2017, 09:17 AM   #174
WilliamSeger
Master Poster
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,410
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Once again, theirs is an emotionally charged ideology and I was amazed to come to this skeptics site and see liberalism being defended through logic and proof, it cannot be done, which is why we get to the nasty labels and name calling.

Birtherism being racist is just the latest narrative to push a failed ideology.
The irony of this assertion is that what's called "conservatism" today is not an actual political ideology; it's just a bad attitude that's mainly driven by fear.
WilliamSeger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2017, 02:37 PM   #175
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,085
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Look where I've gotten you to go. All I've asked is for you to put up the evidence that bertherism is racist. You can't and you know it, admit you are wrong!
I don't even know that you know what racism is, so how am I to know what to provide as evidence for anything being racist? You refuse to do the most basic task to advance everyone's understanding of your position to the point where it can be reasonably discussed. There is no way to provide you with evidence besides throwing everything and seeing what sticks if you keep refusing to discuss in good faith.

But that's your intention of course. You want to be able to accuse others of flailing and calling everything racism, simply by not getting people to be on the same page. You're throwing tantrums over others not being psychic enough to know what the hell you're talking about. Nothing says that you'll have to then agree with evidence presented, but evidence could be more clearly presented.

This is why I'm fairly confident that you don't actually care about racism though. You're willing to cloud the discussion just to attack 'leftist'. You're willing to let what could be actual cases of racism be defended, rather than do the most basic thing those with intellectual honesty should be willing to do. Define terms.

What do you mean by racism? What is racism? Are there any examples of something you determined to be racist, and how you determined it?

Are cross burnings on lawns racist? Why or why not?

You refuse to discuss the most basic aspect of this subject because you're only interested in being politically tribal, at the expense of the discourse on racism.
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2017, 06:14 PM   #176
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
I don't even know that you know what racism is, so how am I to know what to provide as evidence for anything being racist? You refuse to do the most basic task to advance everyone's understanding of your position to the point where it can be reasonably discussed. There is no way to provide you with evidence besides throwing everything and seeing what sticks if you keep refusing to discuss in good faith.

But that's your intention of course. You want to be able to accuse others of flailing and calling everything racism, simply by not getting people to be on the same page. You're throwing tantrums over others not being psychic enough to know what the hell you're talking about. Nothing says that you'll have to then agree with evidence presented, but evidence could be more clearly presented.

This is why I'm fairly confident that you don't actually care about racism though. You're willing to cloud the discussion just to attack 'leftist'. You're willing to let what could be actual cases of racism be defended, rather than do the most basic thing those with intellectual honesty should be willing to do. Define terms.

What do you mean by racism? What is racism? Are there any examples of something you determined to be racist, and how you determined it?

Are cross burnings on lawns racist? Why or why not?

You refuse to discuss the most basic aspect of this subject because you're only interested in being politically tribal, at the expense of the discourse on racism.
Lordy

To show proof of how birtherism is racist, you don't really need my definition, that is simply making it about me! If you must know it would be one individual thinking his/her race being superior to another's race.

Now, Prove to me birtherism is racist.

Last edited by logger; 1st January 2017 at 06:20 PM.
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2017, 07:00 PM   #177
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,085
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lordy

To show proof of how birtherism is racist, you don't really need my definition, that is simply making it about me! If you must know it would be one individual thinking his/her race being superior to another's race.

Now, Prove to me birtherism is racist.

Partial answer, but now we're getting somewhere.

If someone was motivated to believe, and did believe, in birtherism because they didn't think of black people as good enough to be 'real Americans', would that be racist? If they believed in birtherism because they thought black people inherently were liars and thieves, so of course Obama being a black man is lying (any bad accusation about him likewise believed on the same grounds), would that be racist?

And of course, the big question, how would you know if that were the case?
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2017, 07:09 PM   #178
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Partial answer, but now we're getting somewhere.

If someone was motivated to believe, and did believe, in birtherism because they didn't think of black people as good enough to be 'real Americans', would that be racist?
Yes, or if they thought he wasn't good enough to be president because of his race, that would also fit the definition.

Quote:
If they believed in birtherism because they thought black people inherently were liars and thieves, so of course Obama being a black man is lying (any bad accusation about him likewise believed on the same grounds), would that be racist?
Yes
Quote:
And of course, the big question, how would you know if that were the case?
You wouldn't if they didn't write or say it.
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2017, 08:12 AM   #179
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Anything Tyr 13?
Could it be that you're finally willing to admit you wee wrong?
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2017, 09:15 AM   #180
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,085
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Yes, or if they thought he wasn't good enough to be president because of his race, that would also fit the definition.


Yes

You wouldn't if they didn't write or say it.
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Anything Tyr 13?
Could it be that you're finally willing to admit you wee wrong?

I saw your reply last night, but as I work a real job, I thought it better I sleep some and give some thought to how to explain without wasting too much of the civility we've been striving for.

You've given us one, and exactly one, form of evidence you'd accept that something is racist. The person making the argument must outright say it's based on racism. This means that even if someone were doing something blatantly racist, like kicking out of their diner every black and latino, as long as they told you it was because they were dirty or leftists or some other excuse, you wouldn't take it as racism. We know from your defense of Carl Paladino that even outright referring to Obama as the n word in emails isn't enough to call them racist.

The problem with this should be obvious, but let me explain anyway. Even if you take out the number of racists who don't know or believe they are racist (like those black racists who don't think black people can be racist), you're still left with a very large set of racists who just deny it in public. They can and do do things such as research what voting methods minorities use and then specifically target those methods for removal or undue restriction, but say it's not for racism and they're fine? This bar you've set for evidence in which the racist has to be a self-aware and very honest racist, means the overwhelming majority of racism can't even be defined as racism, let alone addressed with even discussion.

tl;dr As long as they keep their hoods on, you'll defend them. Sad.
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2017, 09:40 AM   #181
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 10,557
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
I saw your reply last night, but as I work a real job, I thought it better I sleep some and give some thought to how to explain without wasting too much of the civility we've been striving for.

You've given us one, and exactly one, form of evidence you'd accept that something is racist. The person making the argument must outright say it's based on racism. This means that even if someone were doing something blatantly racist, like kicking out of their diner every black and latino, as long as they told you it was because they were dirty or leftists or some other excuse, you wouldn't take it as racism. We know from your defense of Carl Paladino that even outright referring to Obama as the n word in emails isn't enough to call them racist.

The problem with this should be obvious, but let me explain anyway. Even if you take out the number of racists who don't know or believe they are racist (like those black racists who don't think black people can be racist), you're still left with a very large set of racists who just deny it in public. They can and do do things such as research what voting methods minorities use and then specifically target those methods for removal or undue restriction, but say it's not for racism and they're fine? This bar you've set for evidence in which the racist has to be a self-aware and very honest racist, means the overwhelming majority of racism can't even be defined as racism, let alone addressed with even discussion.

tl;dr As long as they keep their hoods on, you'll defend them. Sad.
For instance:
Originally Posted by David Duke
I don't consider myself a racist, I don't hate other peoples, but I certainly want to preserve my own.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
varwoche is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2017, 10:21 AM   #182
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
I saw your reply last night, but as I work a real job, I thought it better I sleep some and give some thought to how to explain without wasting too much of the civility we've been striving for.

You've given us one, and exactly one, form of evidence you'd accept that something is racist. The person making the argument must outright say it's based on racism. This means that even if someone were doing something blatantly racist, like kicking out of their diner every black and latino, as long as they told you it was because they were dirty or leftists or some other excuse, you wouldn't take it as racism. We know from your defense of Carl Paladino that even outright referring to Obama as the n word in emails isn't enough to call them racist.
Isn't the burden of proof on the folks making the charge? Its quite easy to find racist statements on this issue and post them. If the're aren't any then you're guessing, like I've been saying all along.

As far as Paladino, we would have to know more about him, I'm not willing to bake someone who makes an inconsiderate, stupid lousy statement.
Quote:
The problem with this should be obvious, but let me explain anyway. Even if you take out the number of racists who don't know or believe they are racist (like those black racists who don't think black people can be racist), you're still left with a very large set of racists who just deny it in public. They can and do do things such as research what voting methods minorities use and then specifically target those methods for removal or undue restriction, but say it's not for racism and they're fine? This bar you've set for evidence in which the racist has to be a self-aware and very honest racist, means the overwhelming majority of racism can't even be defined as racism, let alone addressed with even discussion.
The bar is set quite high by you. You're perfectly fine slobbering the word over whoever you see fit. Fact is, all have some sort of bigotry that they deal with but does it boil down to hatred?
Quote:
tl;dr As long as they keep their hoods on, you'll defend them. Sad.
This is what I mean. You aren't interested in solving these problems or at least discussing them, you're interested in arguing, good me too!

Last edited by logger; 2nd January 2017 at 11:00 AM.
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2017, 10:22 AM   #183
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
For instance:
Lol

you found a real racist and another thread derail.
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2017, 11:17 AM   #184
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 10,557
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

you found a real racist and another thread derail.
Whatever. It's an example that points out the (obvious) flaw in your reasoning.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
varwoche is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2017, 11:23 AM   #185
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Whatever. It's an example that points out the (obvious) flaw in your reasoning.
The flaw being that every person who goes against your side is a racist? You're hilarious.

Why don't you start a thread on "obvious racists", you can start with Duke.
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2017, 02:09 PM   #186
turingtest
Mistral, mistral wind...
 
turingtest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,674
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Isn't the burden of proof on the folks making the charge? Its quite easy to find racist statements on this issue and post them. If the're aren't any then you're guessing, like I've been saying all along.
Great, then you'll accept a racist statement (like a black person should go live with gorillas in Africa) as evidence of racism?

Quote:
As far as Paladino, we would have to know more about him, I'm not willing to bake someone who makes an inconsiderate, stupid lousy statement.
And wheeeeeeeeee! go the goalposts, as expected. What "more" would you need to know than what you yourself asked for (in lieu of "guessing")? Gosh, I hope you're cutting Obama as much slack for being a damn Commie based on what he's actually said and done. Wait, what am I saying? After all, this is "Leftist!" logger I'm talking to, the guy who'd rather spit simplistic epithets at folks who disagree politically with him than try to find any common ground.


Quote:
The bar is set quite high by you. You're perfectly fine slobbering the word over whoever you see fit. Fact is, all have some sort of bigotry that they deal with but does it boil down to hatred?
Are you sure you really understand the concept of that whole "set the bar" figure of speech? I only ask because just sneering "nuh uh, you're setting the bar high!" suggests you don't.

Quote:
This is what I mean. You aren't interested in solving these problems or at least discussing them, you're interested in arguing, good me too!
How productive a discussion about the problem of racism can be had with someone who thinks there really isn't one, or at least resists all evidence of it?
__________________
I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV;
I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems
Deep Purple- "The Aviator"

Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King

Last edited by turingtest; 2nd January 2017 at 02:48 PM. Reason: clarify
turingtest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2017, 03:23 PM   #187
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Great, then you'll accept a racist statement (like a black person should go live with gorillas in Africa) as evidence of racism?
As I said before, racism is thinking ones race is superior to the other. You can understand definitions?

Quote:
And wheeeeeeeeee! go the goalposts, as expected. What "more" would you need to know than what you yourself asked for (in lieu of "guessing")? Gosh, I hope you're cutting Obama as much slack for being a damn Commie based on what he's actually said and done. Wait, what am I saying? After all, this is "Leftist!" logger I'm talking to, the guy who'd rather spit simplistic epithets at folks who disagree politically with him than try to find any common ground.
You finding common ground, that is hilarious, next you'll be telling us you're not a partisan. As far as Paladino, is a person racist for making one comment that was stupid? Look what Robert Byrd did, liberals like yourself had fully embraced him. Oh yeah, he was sorry!


Quote:
Are you sure you really understand the concept of that whole "set the bar" figure of speech? I only ask because just sneering "nuh uh, you're setting the bar high!" suggests you don't.
You missed the point entirely, meaning your side continues to label the whole birtherism scandal as racist without offering proof, it just has to be. That's a bar no one can even reach. It actually allows you to set the narrative once again, something dishonest people love to do.
Quote:
How productive a discussion about the problem of racism can be had with someone who thinks there really isn't one, or at least resists all evidence of it?
Your comprehension again? Did you just stumble into this thread? We're not talking about racism by itself, we're talking about how it somehow relates to birtherism. I await your proof.

Last edited by logger; 2nd January 2017 at 03:25 PM.
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2017, 07:18 PM   #188
turingtest
Mistral, mistral wind...
 
turingtest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,674
Originally Posted by logger View Post
As I said before, racism is thinking ones race is superior to the other. You can understand definitions?
You can understand questions? You're the one who suggested that finding statements that were racist would be evidence of racism; now you want to retreat to general definitions after being shown the evidence you asked for?

Quote:
You finding common ground, that is hilarious, next you'll be telling us you're not a partisan. As far as Paladino, is a person racist for making one comment that was stupid? Look what Robert Byrd did, liberals like yourself had fully embraced him. Oh yeah, he was sorry!
My, my, the "Robert Byrd" gambit- that's unexpected. Hey, if you say "Lincoln was a Republican, take that, libs!" you can really run the cliche table.

And why do you think "liberals like me" fully embraced him? I can only speak for myself- the man was a racist (based on his statements). So much for that (non-birther related) strawman...

Quote:
You missed the point entirely, meaning your side continues to label the whole birtherism scandal as racist without offering proof, it just has to be. That's a bar no one can even reach. It actually allows you to set the narrative once again, something dishonest people love to do.
See that highlighted? That's the bit where you keep going wrong. I've already said that I don't think all birthers are racists, or that all birtherism is rooted in racism (but most racists are gonna be birthers, and just about all of both are morons). See, when you keep telling me what I must think by way of telling me what you think my "side" thinks, that's you trying to set the narrative by way of a pretty clumsy (and dishonest) strawman.

Quote:
Your comprehension again? Did you just stumble into this thread? We're not talking about racism by itself, we're talking about how it somehow relates to birtherism. I await your proof.
Oh, right- like Robert Byrd somehow relates to birtherism? All I see is you insisting on "your side" strawmen and whatever you can dredge up to make your point, while telling other folks they can't talk about anything but what yo consider on-point. Sorry, you don't get to control the narrative like that (But I await your continuing efforts to do so )
__________________
I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV;
I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems
Deep Purple- "The Aviator"

Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King
turingtest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2017, 07:33 PM   #189
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Anyone want to show where birtherism is racist? Anyone?

tyr 13?
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2017, 07:45 PM   #190
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
You can understand questions? You're the one who suggested that finding statements that were racist would be evidence of racism; now you want to retreat to general definitions after being shown the evidence you asked for?
Let me explain again wh at we're looking for. Statements related to birtherism showing it to be a racist plot. We haven't been discussing racism in itself, do you now understand?


Quote:
My, my, the "Robert Byrd" gambit- that's unexpected. Hey, if you say "Lincoln was a Republican, take that, libs!" you can really run the cliche table.
I thought I'd throw it out there to show your side has racist folks too, I got sucked into varwoche's trap, I withdrawal it. I'd like to keep this thread on track
Quote:
And why do you think "liberals like me" fully embraced him? I can only speak for myself- the man was a racist (based on his statements). So much for that (non-birther related)
Well, you're just not like the normal libs.
Moving on!

Quote:
See that highlighted? That's the bit where you keep going wrong. I've already said that I don't think all birthers are racists, or that all birtherism is rooted in racism (but most racists are gonna be birthers, and just about all of both are morons). See, when you keep telling me what I must think by way of telling me what you think my "side" thinks, that's you trying to set the narrative by way of a pretty clumsy (and dishonest)
Prove they're racists

I highly doubt the ones pushing this are morons, that is underestimating your enemies and you know what happened he last time your side did that.



Quote:
Oh, right- like Robert Byrd somehow relates to birtherism? All I see is you insisting on "your side" strawmen and whatever you can dredge up to make your point, while telling other folks they can't talk about anything but what yo consider on-point. Sorry, you don't get to control the narrative like that (But I await your continuing efforts to do so )
I withdrawal the Byrd comment.

We're talking about the scandal of bertherism being racist, go ahead and put up your proof.
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2017, 08:14 PM   #191
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,085
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Anyone want to show where birtherism is racist? Anyone?

tyr 13?

Already did. You're just ignoring it and claiming victory.

You're defending klansmen because they keep their hoods on.
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2017, 08:19 PM   #192
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Already did. You're just ignoring it and claiming victory.

You're defending klansmen because they keep their hoods on.
Which klansmen?

I really didn't even know I was defending klansman? Do you have a single clue how ridiculous your post looks?
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2017, 08:26 PM   #193
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,085
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Which klansmen?

I really didn't even know I was defending klansman? Do you have a single clue how ridiculous your post looks?
I can't tell. They have hoods on.
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2017, 08:40 PM   #194
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Lol

I want to congratulate you, that must have taken lots of time to find. But they weren't actually leading the fight on Obamas birth certificate were they? 2013 that was even before Trump.

Good try but I'm going to have to rule that a no!
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd January 2017, 06:35 AM   #195
turingtest
Mistral, mistral wind...
 
turingtest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,674
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Let me explain again wh at we're looking for. Statements related to birtherism showing it to be a racist plot. We haven't been discussing racism in itself, do you now understand?
Except when you need to in order to control the narrative- that way you can so narrowly limit the definition as to exclude anyone you need to. That's a game you can play by yourself, I think.


Quote:
I thought I'd throw it out there to show your side has racist folks too, I got sucked into varwoche's trap, I withdrawal it. I'd like to keep this thread on track


Quote:
Well, you're just not like the normal libs.
Moving on!
If you wouldn't worry so much about labeling people all the time, maybe you wouldn't need such weak strawmen to lean on.



Quote:
Prove they're racists
Prove who are racists? Racists? You seem to be struggling with the construction; here, let me lay it out for you (again)- "not all birthers are racists, but a racist is more likely to be a birther." Can you not follow this, can you not understand that you're requiring me to prove something that either doesn't need proving, or can't be proved to someone (that would be you) who utterly rejects any basis for proof?

Quote:
I highly doubt the ones pushing this are morons, that is underestimating your enemies and you know what happened he last time your side did that.
[Ronald Reagan voice] There you go again...[/Ronald Reagan voice] You just can't help yourself, can you? The politics of "Make America Great Again" seems to mean, to you, making it a land of total political polarization, eternally "us vs them"; because you can't seem to get it through your head that it's not a zero-sum game, winner take all and be damned to the rest. There are conservatives here on this forum who, even when I disagree with them, I can respect their ability to articulate a POV that isn't all about mere mule-headed opposition; they can do more than just sneer "stoopid libs" every second line. They even occasionally change my mind. But you're not after persuasion or progress; you don't want politics or compromise, you demand either conversion or capitulation.

I'd also like to point out that saying "ha ha, the morons won, didn't they, neener neener" doesn't make them not morons- for morons, all it takes is sheer weight of numbers, and they've always had that. Sometimes they can be shown when they're acting against their own interest; sometimes they can't. (Shrug) What comes around goes around; no political victory is permanent.


Quote:
I withdrawal the Byrd comment.

We're talking about the scandal of bertherism being racist, go ahead and put up your proof.
What would you accept as proof of some birtherism being racist in character?
__________________
I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV;
I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems
Deep Purple- "The Aviator"

Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King
turingtest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd January 2017, 07:05 AM   #196
turingtest
Mistral, mistral wind...
 
turingtest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,674
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

I want to congratulate you, that must have taken lots of time to find. But they weren't actually leading the fight on Obamas birth certificate were they? 2013 that was even before Trump.

Good try but I'm going to have to rule that a no!
Amazeballs (there, I said it). Well, no, not really- actually, pretty much as expected with the goalposts. You demand proof that birtherism has a racist side; tyr_13 shows you a picture of Klansmen who don't
Quote:
...accept the proof that Obama is a natural born citizen and they do not believe he is qualified to be President
...and now the proof needs to show that they were leading the birther movement. Well done, logger- you win your empty victory by way of keeping the goalpost forever out of your opponent's reach. You should go to your local WalMart and buy a generic trophy (maybe a raised middle finger), take it home, and sit with it in your lap crooning "stoopid libs" and...stroke it.

And you do know Trump was sending "investigators" to Hawaii on his birther mission in 2011, right?
(My own feeling is that Trump wasn't one of the racist birthers- I think he saw it always as only a political tool to rope in the morons. [SNIP])
Edited by kmortis:  Removed to comply with Rule 12 & Rule 0


ETA- and I guess I can "withdrawal" the last question in my post previous to this one; apparently, no proof is acceptable. Carry on, logger...
__________________
I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV;
I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems
Deep Purple- "The Aviator"

Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King

Last edited by kmortis; 3rd January 2017 at 10:01 AM. Reason: ETA
turingtest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd January 2017, 07:13 AM   #197
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 21,823
If I read the posts above correctly, it would appear that according to some, segregation is not racism if one's belief in "separate but equal" is sincere.
__________________
Sir, I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding. (Samuel Johnson)

I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd January 2017, 08:02 AM   #198
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
If I read the posts above correctly, it would appear that according to some, segregation is not racism if one's belief in "separate but equal" is sincere.
If that is directed at me, you would of course be incorrect. Segregation is segregation, which probably has racist overtones and is also very destructive.
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd January 2017, 08:07 AM   #199
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,873
Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Amazeballs (there, I said it). Well, no, not really- actually, pretty much as expected with the goalposts. You demand proof that birtherism has a racist side; tyr_13 shows you a picture of Klansmen who don't
...and now the proof needs to show that they were leading the birther movement. Well done, logger- you win your empty victory by way of keeping the goalpost forever out of your opponent's reach. You should go to your local WalMart and buy a generic trophy (maybe a raised middle finger), take it home, and sit with it in your lap crooning "stoopid libs" and...stroke it.
You don't think putting up Klansman holding a rally in support of birtherism is moving the goal posts?
This isn't about whether some racists support birtherism. Racists supported Trump and your side tried to make the argument that made Trump a racist.
This is about whether birtherism was about race or was in fact racist to bigin with.
Quote:
And you do know Trump was sending "investigators" to Hawaii on his birther mission in 2011, right?
(My own feeling is that Trump wasn't one of the racist birthers- I think he saw it always as only a political tool to rope in the morons.
Edited by kmortis:  Removed to comply with Rule 12 & Rule 0
Edited by kmortis:  removed to comply with Rule 11

Last edited by kmortis; 3rd January 2017 at 10:02 AM.
logger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd January 2017, 08:12 AM   #200
turingtest
Mistral, mistral wind...
 
turingtest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,674
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
If I read the posts above correctly, it would appear that according to some, segregation is not racism if one's belief in "separate but equal" is sincere.
And as long as that sincere one can ignore the fact that, in practice, "separate but equal" must be a function of power based on an assumed superiority- when "separate" is the primary consideration of the folks that create it and can enforce it, "equal" is a secondary consideration.
__________________
I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV;
I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems
Deep Purple- "The Aviator"

Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King
turingtest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:15 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.