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Old 26th July 2019, 07:22 PM   #1
newyorkguy
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Record Heat in UK

I know ISF has many British members and I was hoping to find some commentary here about this week's record heat in the UK, France and other parts of Europe. Here in the US, NBC News reported:
Quote:
The United Kingdom recorded its hottest day ever on Thursday in a heat wave that also shattered temperature records in France, the Netherlands and Belgium. Temperatures reached 101.66 degrees [**] at Cambridge University Botanic Garden, according to new provisional data released by the U.K.'s Met Office on Friday. If verified, it would make Thursday the hottest day ever on record in the country. The country's previous record high of 101.3 degrees was set in 2003. Link
Paris got to 105°F, Gilze-Rijen airbase in the Netherlands recorded a high of 104°F, while in Belgium "the Kleine Brogel air base, roughly 55 miles east of Antwerp, broke national records reaching 105°F." The past week the New York City area had a heat wave, with people wilting as the mercury climbed to the high 90s but this puts us to shame.

What I'm wondering about, is Boris Johnson a climate change denier? Climate change as the earth warms, does this engender the same kind of controversy in Britain and other parts of Europe as it does in the US?

Where is this headed?

[** - Bear with me please, Yanks still express temps in Fahrenheit.]

Last edited by newyorkguy; 26th July 2019 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 27th July 2019, 01:23 AM   #2
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Not as much controversy across here, especially in mainland Europe. Even our 'right wing' conservatives do tend to be a bit more liberal than the right in the US. I think it may be due to the whole Evangelist thing going on across there. I tend to see that the more evangelical christians tilt more towards the extreme GOP representatives. I'm speaking from a fairly limited pool of experiences though. I used to travel a lot to the States, less so over the last three years.
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Old 27th July 2019, 02:11 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Mikemcc View Post
Not as much controversy across here, especially in mainland Europe. Even our 'right wing' conservatives do tend to be a bit more liberal than the right in the US. I think it may be due to the whole Evangelist thing going on across there. I tend to see that the more evangelical christians tilt more towards the extreme GOP representatives. I'm speaking from a fairly limited pool of experiences though. I used to travel a lot to the States, less so over the last three years.
I imagine a study group in a million years trying to figure normal cycle or anthropogenic around our current epoch.
They will not see politics in the core sampling I imagine.
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Old 27th July 2019, 04:50 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
I know ISF has many British members and I was hoping to find some commentary here about this week's record heat in the UK, France and other parts of Europe. Here in the US, NBC News reported:


Paris got to 105°F, Gilze-Rijen airbase in the Netherlands recorded a high of 104°F, while in Belgium "the Kleine Brogel air base, roughly 55 miles east of Antwerp, broke national records reaching 105°F." The past week the New York City area had a heat wave, with people wilting as the mercury climbed to the high 90s but this puts us to shame.

What I'm wondering about, is Boris Johnson a climate change denier? Climate change as the earth warms, does this engender the same kind of controversy in Britain and other parts of Europe as it does in the US?

Where is this headed?

[** - Bear with me please, Yanks still express temps in Fahrenheit.]
While most people here accept Global Warming even on the right the right tend to pay it lip service and do nothing about it. Mind you Labour aren't much better.

The standard get out here seems to be 'yeah but its China and India doing it all and they ain't going to stop so what's the point of us doing anything?' - in other words good old fashioned English colonial blaming of Johnny Foreigner while arrogantly ***** up everything.
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Old 27th July 2019, 08:01 AM   #5
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About ten years ago while on a visit to Toronto I watched a CBC documentary about First Nation people. One segment was about the depletion of a traditional freshwater fishing ground. Scientists thought the problem was that the water temperature was gradually rising. This aggravated the food supply problem. Because already, with sea ice melting faster and earlier, polar bears were ranging further inland and interfering with caribou hunting.

After the show there was a news story about Canadian efforts to control climate change. Several people interviewed said they feared that until "our giant neighbor to the south" became sufficiently concerned Canada's efforts could have only a very small impact. The question was posed: Why do so many in the United States either disbelieve the climate change science or seem unconcerned? One answer (which rang very true with me) was: "Here in Canada we have seen dramatic evidence of warming. In the U.S. not so much. Until people in the U.S. see it -- not read about it or see it on TV but experience it personally -- they'll probably remain largely apathetic."

I'm wondering if the historically high temperatures in the UK and Europe this past week are changing peoples' attitudes? Creating some urgency on the political side?

Last edited by newyorkguy; 27th July 2019 at 08:08 AM.
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Old 29th July 2019, 10:26 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
I know ISF has many British members and I was hoping to find some commentary here about this week's record heat in the UK, France and other parts of Europe. Here in the US, NBC News reported:


Paris got to 105°F, Gilze-Rijen airbase in the Netherlands recorded a high of 104°F, while in Belgium "the Kleine Brogel air base, roughly 55 miles east of Antwerp, broke national records reaching 105°F." The past week the New York City area had a heat wave, with people wilting as the mercury climbed to the high 90s but this puts us to shame.

What I'm wondering about, is Boris Johnson a climate change denier? Climate change as the earth warms, does this engender the same kind of controversy in Britain and other parts of Europe as it does in the US?

Where is this headed?

[** - Bear with me please, Yanks still express temps in Fahrenheit.]

We should probably wait for climate scientists to crunch the numbers before jumping to the conclusion that it’s attributable to climate change. Recent history suggests it will be attributable to climate change but it’s still best to wait for the actual science.


The problem with jumping to conclusions wrt to the UK is that it’s not clear if we should expect global warming to result in local warming or local cooling. Climate models predict an area of cooling in the north Atlantic and a similar feature is starting to show up in the temperature data. This could conceivable brink cooler not warmer temperatures to the UK.
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Old 29th July 2019, 10:32 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
The problem with jumping to conclusions wrt to the UK is that it’s not clear if we should expect global warming to result in local warming or local cooling. Climate models predict an area of cooling in the north Atlantic and a similar feature is starting to show up in the temperature data. This could conceivable brink cooler not warmer temperatures to the UK.
Aye. We're a little further north than chilly Newfoundland, but are kept temperate by the 'Atlantic conveyor' ocean current. Cold melt water could scupper that, in the long term.
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Old 29th July 2019, 09:36 PM   #8
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For the rest of us, 101.6 in American degrees is 38.7. Which, yes, is pretty warm.
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Old 30th July 2019, 12:49 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
For the rest of us, 101.6 in American degrees is 38.7. Which, yes, is pretty warm.
And IMO it's exacerbated by the lack of planning and design for such temperatures. In the US it tends to be air-conditioning (not the most eco) in other countries, houses incorporate design features to mitigate high temperatures.
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Old 30th July 2019, 03:09 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
About ten years ago while on a visit to Toronto I watched a CBC documentary about First Nation people. One segment was about the depletion of a traditional freshwater fishing ground. Scientists thought the problem was that the water temperature was gradually rising. This aggravated the food supply problem. Because already, with sea ice melting faster and earlier, polar bears were ranging further inland and interfering with caribou hunting.

After the show there was a news story about Canadian efforts to control climate change. Several people interviewed said they feared that until "our giant neighbor to the south" became sufficiently concerned Canada's efforts could have only a very small impact. The question was posed: Why do so many in the United States either disbelieve the climate change science or seem unconcerned? One answer (which rang very true with me) was: "Here in Canada we have seen dramatic evidence of warming. In the U.S. not so much. Until people in the U.S. see it -- not read about it or see it on TV but experience it personally -- they'll probably remain largely apathetic."

I'm wondering if the historically high temperatures in the UK and Europe this past week are changing peoples' attitudes? Creating some urgency on the political side?
I think it's because of the huge influence of money (specifically large corporate sponsorship) on politics in the US, and it happens to be that climate change denial is a very profitable (to said corporations) idea.
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Old 30th July 2019, 04:52 AM   #11
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There is already great concern in the UK I discovered. Below is some information from an American climate change activist group called the Climate Reality Project.
Quote:
In 2003, the UK and its neighbors in mainland Europe experienced one of the most significant heat waves in recorded history. Tens of thousands died – more than 2,000 in the UK alone – during what turned out to be its hottest summer in more than 500 years across the western part of the continent...So when climate scientists warn that “heatwaves in the UK like that experienced in 2003 are expected to become the norm in summer by the 2040s,” it’s not taken lightly.

“We are seeing a trend towards warmer winters and hotter summers, sea levels around our coast are rising by around 3mm a year, and there is emerging evidence of changing rainfall patterns,” the UK government said in a 2017 report to Parliament. Link
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Old 30th July 2019, 06:29 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
And IMO it's exacerbated by the lack of planning and design for such temperatures. In the US it tends to be air-conditioning (not the most eco) in other countries, houses incorporate design features to mitigate high temperatures.
Most of the places in the US that regularly go to these temperatures are a lot dryer which helps a lot.

Temperatures as low as 35 Deg C (101 deg F) can be un-survivable to mammalian life at around 70% relative humidity because they can no longer cool their bodies via evaporation. There was no danger of this in the UK obviously; no place in the world reaches this combination of temperature and humidity today. By 2100 there is likely to be at least some placed on earth where this happens on a somewhat regular basis.
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Old 31st July 2019, 02:22 PM   #13
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I know it's a old cliché, but I suspect the humidity in the UK makes the heat a lot worse.
I would rather have 105 in a dry heat then 90 in a humid climate.
I was in the UK on vacation back in 2003 when they had a heat wave of over a 100 Fahrenite. It was horrid.
ANd I come froma city that has really hot summers.
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Old 31st July 2019, 02:26 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Most of the places in the US that regularly go to these temperatures are a lot dryer which helps a lot.

Temperatures as low as 35 Deg C (101 deg F) can be un-survivable to mammalian life at around 70% relative humidity because they can no longer cool their bodies via evaporation. There was no danger of this in the UK obviously; no place in the world reaches this combination of temperature and humidity today. By 2100 there is likely to be at least some placed on earth where this happens on a somewhat regular basis.
Yeah, I am in Sacramento;where you can expect 9 or 10 days of 100 plus tempertures a year...and this has been the case since they started keeping records in the mid 1800's. But it's a pretty dry heat.
In Phoenix Arizona,where they have a lot more plus 100 days and is the hottest climate of any major American city (being in the desert will do that), a popular T shirt shows too skeltons talking saying "But it's a Dry Heat"....
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Old 17th August 2019, 04:32 PM   #15
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I would also say that we are seeing denialist articles in 5he press. Booker died but I can't remember the last articles from Rose, Monckton or Ridley.

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Old 18th August 2019, 02:30 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
The problem with jumping to conclusions wrt to the UK is that it’s not clear if we should expect global warming to result in local warming or local cooling. Climate models predict an area of cooling in the north Atlantic and a similar feature is starting to show up in the temperature data. This could conceivable brink cooler not warmer temperatures to the UK.
Aye. We're a little further north than chilly Newfoundland, but are kept temperate by the 'Atlantic conveyor' ocean current. Cold melt water could scupper that, in the long term.

The either/or scenario which lomiller is discussing is somewhat deceptive. As you point out it could be both, one after the other.

But it isn't cold melt water which will be the problem. Not exactly, anyway. Most (I've read 90%) of the fresh water in the world is locked up in the southern ice cap. The Gulf Stream is a system which depends on a difference in salinity to drive it, and enough fresh water melted into the ocean could break that.

While extreme hot temperatures may be a problem now, if the Gulf Stream quits transporting warm water from the equatorial regions to the north Atlantic then the UK won't have to worry about that so much any more.

Glaciers? Mebbe not, but the UK's latitude will become a lot more obvious. North of much of Canada.
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Old 18th August 2019, 02:42 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Most of the places in the US that regularly go to these temperatures are a lot dryer which helps a lot.

I'm not sure about "most". The South and Southeast tend to be a bit on the damp side.

Quote:

Temperatures as low as 35 Deg C (101 deg F) can be un-survivable to mammalian life at around 70% relative humidity because they can no longer cool their bodies via evaporation. There was no danger of this in the UK obviously; no place in the world reaches this combination of temperature and humidity today. By 2100 there is likely to be at least some placed on earth where this happens on a somewhat regular basis.
We've had one of the hottest summers on record here in NC. Daytime highs for the past few weeks have pretty much stayed in or near the 90s, with mid-90s frequent. Meanwhile the humidity hovers right around that 70% you mention.

"Steam bath" is a term getting used a lot.
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Old 19th August 2019, 10:45 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
The Gulf Stream is a system which depends on a difference in salinity to drive it, and enough fresh water melted into the ocean could break that.
Salinity changes where it subsides into the deep ocean, but the Gulf Stream itself is actually wind driven

Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I'm not sure about "most". The South and Southeast tend to be a bit on the damp side.



We've had one of the hottest summers on record here in NC. Daytime highs for the past few weeks have pretty much stayed in or near the 90s, with mid-90s frequent. Meanwhile the humidity hovers right around that 70% you mention.

"Steam bath" is a term getting used a lot.
Yes the US south can get these temperatures but not as often as you may think, especially in the more humid costal areas. Tampa Bay Florida has never recorded a 100+ Deg day, Savannah GA’s all time record is 100 Deg C Atlanta hits 100 once every few years so it’s still not a frequent occurrence. Heat index in London reached as high as 115 Deg F, which isn’t all that common even in the US south. A big difference is that no one in the UK has AC.
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Old 19th August 2019, 11:19 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yeah, I am in Sacramento;where you can expect 9 or 10 days of 100 plus tempertures a year...and this has been the case since they started keeping records in the mid 1800's. But it's a pretty dry heat.
In Phoenix Arizona,where they have a lot more plus 100 days and is the hottest climate of any major American city (being in the desert will do that), a popular T shirt shows too skeltons talking saying "But it's a Dry Heat"....
I used to tell people to try sticking their head in the oven if they wanted to experience what a dry heat feels like. That said, we've actually had a pretty mild summer by Phoenix standards, June was gorgeous with almost no 100+ days (very unusual), July was normal hot. August has been hotter than normal and we have not had many monsoons, which means I have to water my trees regularly.

Last summer was also unusually mild, with the heat amazingly breaking in mid-September (mid-October is more normal). Of course, here everybody has A/C; going without is not really an option.
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Old 19th August 2019, 02:03 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I'm not sure about "most". The South and Southeast tend to be a bit on the damp side.



We've had one of the hottest summers on record here in NC. Daytime highs for the past few weeks have pretty much stayed in or near the 90s, with mid-90s frequent. Meanwhile the humidity hovers right around that 70% you mention.

"Steam bath" is a term getting used a lot.
Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Salinity changes where it subsides into the deep ocean, but the Gulf Stream itself is actually wind driven



Yes the US south can get these temperatures but not as often as you may think, especially in the more humid costal areas. Tampa Bay Florida has never recorded a 100+ Deg day, Savannah GA’s all time record is 100 Deg C Atlanta hits 100 once every few years so it’s still not a frequent occurrence. Heat index in London reached as high as 115 Deg F, which isn’t all that common even in the US south. A big difference is that no one in the UK has AC.
Head a little further west. Places in OK for example have averaged a high of 95, heat index of 106 and relative humidity of 72% this month. Not 115, but 4 days 110+. I grew up there, and can attest to the steam bath comment.
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Old 20th August 2019, 12:04 AM   #21
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The US arm of The Don family mostly resided in Las Vegas.

We used to visit every couple of years in July and August and back in the early 1970's with temperatures in the 110-120 range but humidity in low single digits it was excruciatingly hot but at least sweat evaporated immediately. It still wasn't too bad in the late 80's, the last time we visited as a family.

Mrs Don and I went back a few years ago for the first time in three decades and I don't know whether it's due to the much increased population, the greater number of water features and the like, climate change or just the weather that June week, but humidity was far, far worse, into the twenties and thirties. Being outside was more or less unbearable.
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Old 20th August 2019, 12:31 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Most of the places in the US that regularly go to these temperatures are a lot dryer which helps a lot.

Temperatures as low as 35 Deg C (101 deg F) can be un-survivable to mammalian life at around 70% relative humidity because they can no longer cool their bodies via evaporation. There was no danger of this in the UK obviously; no place in the world reaches this combination of temperature and humidity today. By 2100 there is likely to be at least some placed on earth where this happens on a somewhat regular basis.
Getting close though, even in Australia.

Quote:
Cairns, in Far North Queensland, experiences hot and humid summers and mild, dry winters. The average annual maximum temperature is 29°C (84.2°F), with 62% humidity.
That’s the average. This summer:

Quote:
The Bureau of Meteorology recorded a 42.6-degree temperature at Cairns Airport at 12.24pm
That temperature even with average humidity is oppressive.

I reckon those temperature and humidity levels would have been experienced in Singapore for one.
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Old 20th August 2019, 01:08 AM   #23
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London reached 105°F, not 115.

Since that short heat wave, August in central Europe hast been mild under average, with the last couple of days tons of rain here, which was long overdue. The plants are happy again.
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Old 20th August 2019, 04:52 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
London reached 105°F, not 115.

Since that short heat wave, August in central Europe hast been mild under average, with the last couple of days tons of rain here, which was long overdue. The plants are happy again.

And here we continue to plod along with daytime highs in the mid 90s, and "feels like" temps in the three digits thanks to the humidity and high dew points.

Yet another sauna day.
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Old 20th August 2019, 02:50 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Where is this headed?

Lots of topless and nude chicks on the beach.
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Old 20th August 2019, 05:44 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
London reached 105°F, not 115.

Since that short heat wave, August in central Europe hast been mild under average, with the last couple of days tons of rain here, which was long overdue. The plants are happy again.
With global warming active it will get steadily get worse.
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Old 21st August 2019, 11:04 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
London reached 105°F, not 115.
The Heat index for London went over 115 which is into the danger range. Humidity plays a big role in how easily the human body can cool itself. Heat index factors that in.

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Old 21st August 2019, 11:35 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
And here we continue to plod along with daytime highs in the mid 90s, and "feels like" temps in the three digits thanks to the humidity and high dew points.
I’m not of the “feels like” as a description for heat index. It works better as a description for heat index than wind chill, but you still don’t really feel the effects of heat index immediately, you feel it more over time as your body struggles to get rid of excess heat.


Provided you are protected from the wind, you may actually at be much greater risk of hypothermia with temperatures near freezing and high humidity than you are at -20 Deg C and the air is dry. Part of the problem is that the air can feel warmer on your skin even when you are loosing body heat more rapidly because the insulation value of your clothes drops when it’s humid.

The popular “feels like” metric for cold doesn’t account for this at all, instead it looks at the effect if wind on exposed skin. This is important when there is a possibility of frostbite on exposed skin but may not capture the risk of hypothermia.
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Old 21st August 2019, 11:44 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I used to tell people to try sticking their head in the oven if they wanted to experience what a dry heat feels like. That said, we've actually had a pretty mild summer by Phoenix standards, June was gorgeous with almost no 100+ days (very unusual), July was normal hot. August has been hotter than normal and we have not had many monsoons, which means I have to water my trees regularly.

Last summer was also unusually mild, with the heat amazingly breaking in mid-September (mid-October is more normal). Of course, here everybody has A/C; going without is not really an option.
Same basically, one state east here in ABQ. Except the spring was exceptionally cool and wet, like dipped into the 40's around Memorial Day. Been hovering around 100 most days in August. The weather forecast keeps saying around 95, then they revise it day of. Finally got a tiny bit of rain last night, just a quick heat storm rolling off Sandia.

I will gladly take the dry heat though. Stay out of the sun and its bearable at least, unlike humid heat.
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Old 21st August 2019, 12:45 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
The Heat index for London went over 115 which is into the danger range. Humidity plays a big role in how easily the human body can cool itself. Heat index factors that in.

That makes sense but you wrote

Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Heat index in London reached as high as 115 Deg F

Here in Germany that heat wave was rather dry and with a healthy wind, so I didn't suffer too much (although I felt like starting a thread in Forum Community complaining about it ).
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Old 21st August 2019, 12:57 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
The Heat index for London went over 115 which is into the danger range. Humidity plays a big role in how easily the human body can cool itself. Heat index factors that in.
That makes sense but you wrote
Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Heat index in London reached as high as 115 Deg F
and...
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Old 21st August 2019, 01:00 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
and...

...and what? No and. Deg F is one dimension on your two-dimensional heat index chart.
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Old 21st August 2019, 09:24 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
I’m not of the “feels like” as a description for heat index. It works better as a description for heat index than wind chill, but you still don’t really feel the effects of heat index immediately, you feel it more over time as your body struggles to get rid of excess heat.


Provided you are protected from the wind, you may actually at be much greater risk of hypothermia with temperatures near freezing and high humidity than you are at -20 Deg C and the air is dry. Part of the problem is that the air can feel warmer on your skin even when you are loosing body heat more rapidly because the insulation value of your clothes drops when it’s humid.

The popular “feels like” metric for cold doesn’t account for this at all, instead it looks at the effect if wind on exposed skin. This is important when there is a possibility of frostbite on exposed skin but may not capture the risk of hypothermia.

Okay. I can dig it.

This time of year the local weather critters often use it synonymously with "heat index", which they also use in their reports. I put "feels like" in quotes because ... well ... I was quoting it.

This time of year in NC, and even more so this year it is highly unlikely that anyone is going to be confusing it with "wind chill".

We're having plenty of wind. Micro-burst downdrafts are doing an unusual amount of damage, along with garden variety very high winds. But they aren't of the chilly variety.
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Old 22nd August 2019, 06:06 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
...and what? No and. Deg F is one dimension on your two-dimensional heat index chart.
So you were commenting on the absence of a unit? Why didn't you just say so?

Personally, I’m not to worried about the presence of a unit in that case because it was a casual conversation and the unit was easily inferred. Also worth noting is that while Deg F is the official unit for Heat Index (It was popularized by the US government), think using the units of Temperature are little misleading because it’s not actually a temperature. I also favor the old unit for wind chill (W/m^2) over the popular but misleading“feels like X Deg C” for many of the reasons I already discussed above.
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Old 22nd August 2019, 06:08 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Where is this headed?
Death.
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Old 22nd August 2019, 06:16 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post

This time of year the local weather critters often use it synonymously with "heat index", which they also use in their reports. I put "feels like" in quotes because ... well ... I was quoting it.
I get that. I was just pointing out that “it feels like X Deg” isn’t a great way to describe numbers like this (heat index, humidex, wind chill, etc) because they don’t really feel the same. Temperature plus humidity that push the heat index to 120 doesn’t feel like 120 Deg F in dry air.

The real information is about danger level for certain heat related issues, and to understand that you need the additional information that a heat index of 120 is in the “danger” area.
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Old 22nd August 2019, 06:23 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Death.
Humans are somewhat immune to ecosystem breakdowns, but the economic damage is going to be serious and that reduced our ability to deal with climate change. Still, if it’s just climate change I think humanity and some measure of our society can survive.

OTOH, Ocean Acidification is death. If that reaches a certain threshold, the evolutionary history of the earth tells us animals of our size do not survive, period.
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Old 22nd August 2019, 07:06 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
I get that. I was just pointing out that “it feels like X Deg” isn’t a great way to describe numbers like this (heat index, humidex, wind chill, etc) because they don’t really feel the same. Temperature plus humidity that push the heat index to 120 doesn’t feel like 120 Deg F in dry air.

The real information is about danger level for certain heat related issues, and to understand that you need the additional information that a heat index of 120 is in the “danger” area.
They offer such evaluations ... with corresponding charts across geographic regions ... regularly during this season. Although I believe they tend to place the "danger" level at somewhat less than 120°F.
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Last edited by quadraginta; 22nd August 2019 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 22nd August 2019, 07:13 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
OTOH, Ocean Acidification is death. If that reaches a certain threshold, the evolutionary history of the earth tells us animals of our size do not survive, period.
The temperature of the oceans will rise as the world warms and warm water can't dissolve as much CO2 as cold, so surely there's a limit to ocean acidification?
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Old 22nd August 2019, 07:45 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
OTOH, Ocean Acidification is death. If that reaches a certain threshold, the evolutionary history of the earth tells us animals of our size do not survive, period.
Would it have a knock-on effect that makes the atmosphere or general climate impossible for land animals? I'm not disputing what you're saying, but a quick read about mass extinctions doesn't explain why large mammals might be wiped out unless they depend directly on the sea (polar bears, walruses etc spring to mind)
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