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Tags Bose-Einstein condensates , cold fusion , Coulomb barrier , Eugene Podkletnov , Frank Znidarsic , planck's constant , quantum mechanics , quantum theory , Quantum Transition

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Old 5th January 2011, 03:44 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
How would one measure a sound wave traveling through a neutron or proton? How would it arrive? How would it leave?
Actually my mistake as I said I am not Frank I may be getting this all completely wrong.
I know it has to do with impedance matching and sound wave propagation but it must relate to the electrons not the nucleus. It has to do with the quantum transition and a measurement of the sound wave propagation during which somehow gets the 1.094 MHz m. Or that might all be totally wrong
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Old 5th January 2011, 03:46 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
I want concrete examples using math dissecting the work entirely not a simple skim of the premise. If its wrong ok but dont just tell me show me in his work in his equations.
I did already. The wavelength of a photon, times its frequency, is 2.99 x 10^8 m/s, not 1.094 x 10^6. Therefore your equation

1.094 x 10^6 = f lambda

is wrong.
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Old 5th January 2011, 03:46 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by RussDill
How would one measure a sound wave traveling through a neutron or proton? How would it arrive? How would it leave?
How would it fit?
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Old 5th January 2011, 03:59 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by ben m View Post
I did already. The wavelength of a photon, times its frequency, is 2.99 x 10^8 m/s, not 1.094 x 10^6. Therefore your equation

1.094 x 10^6 = f lambda

is wrong.
The wavelength of a photon during transition times the frequency of an emitted photon
more simply
Quote:
how many times the emitted photon is oscillating between its electrostatic and magnetic fields per second multiplied by how far the oscillation goes each time aka the distance traveled each time it oscillates
Maybe misinterpreting the equation? Did you get to watch the video of the math?
Here it starts at the exact spot and is only a couple minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahRJW...tailpage#t=81s
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Old 5th January 2011, 04:00 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
How would one measure a sound wave traveling through a neutron or proton? How would it arrive? How would it leave?
Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Actually my mistake as I said I am not Frank I may be getting this all completely wrong.
I know it has to do with impedance matching and sound wave propagation but it must relate to the electrons not the nucleus. It has to do with the quantum transition and a measurement of the sound wave propagation during which somehow gets the 1.094 MHz m. Or that might all be totally wrong
Originally Posted by Soapy Sam View Post
How would it fit?
Optical Phonons
Actually I was right the velocity of sound within the nucleus is 1.094 x 10^6 m/s

Last edited by JCM; 5th January 2011 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 5th January 2011, 04:05 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
But 'sound waves propagation within the nucleus', that is nonsense. Surely you have garbled something or it is nonsense.
I noticed that as well. I think this stuff on Znidarsic's part came from the same orifice from which he pulled the apparent connection to Bose-Einstein Condensates.
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Old 5th January 2011, 04:08 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Optical Phonons
Actually I was right the velocity of sound within the nucleus is 1.094 x 10^6 m/s
"Optical phonons"?

*facepalm*

Dude, we call those photons if in the electron cloud... if it's within the nucleus it is gluons.
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Old 5th January 2011, 04:18 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
But 'sound waves propagation within the nucleus', that is nonsense. Surely you have garbled something or it is nonsense.
Well "people" certainly talk about sound speed in relation to nuclear incompressibility with "giant resonances". Not that I'm saying this guy isn't talking nonsense.
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Old 5th January 2011, 04:28 PM   #89
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Dude, we call those photons if in the electron cloud... if it's within the nucleus it is gluons.
what is the mechanical equivalent of a gluon?
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Old 5th January 2011, 05:04 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
The wavelength of a photon during transition times the frequency of an emitted photon
The "video of the math" is the same as what you posted before, just presented in the slowest and most annoying format possible.

My answer remains the same. The only wavelength you will find associated with a photon is the one I mentioned already. From what observation do you obtain something different? Or are you guessing that the rest of the calculation "must be" right, and using a nonsense-wavelength as the free parameter to make the numbers add up?
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Old 5th January 2011, 05:07 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Tubbythin View Post
Well "people" certainly talk about sound speed in relation to nuclear incompressibility with "giant resonances". Not that I'm saying this guy isn't talking nonsense.
... and that sound speed is much faster than 10^6 m/s. It's something like 3x10^7 m/s.
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Old 5th January 2011, 05:11 PM   #92
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The only wavelength you will find associated with a photon is the one I mentioned already. From what observation do you obtain something different? Or are you guessing that the rest of the calculation "must be" right, and using a nonsense-wavelength as the free parameter to make the numbers add up?
I doubt the math is using a made up wavelength but i'll try to find out how it was derived and then post.
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Old 5th January 2011, 05:26 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
How would one measure a sound wave traveling through a neutron or proton? How would it arrive? How would it leave?
He's saying as a very simple model where you have nucleons acting as marbles and looking at the forces in between them like phonons where the electrical force balances the nuclear force in an atomic structure you have positive charges balancing the negatives structure and you get the propagation of waves using that analysis he derived the velocity of sound within the nucleus and the solution is independent of the number of neutrons

The quantum condition is a classical effect of a condition where the velocity of light equals the velocity of sound. The velocity is that of the transitional quantum state.

The velocity of sound, which is normally associated with heavy nucleons, it's a mechanical property, equals the propagations in the electron environment, which is usually associated with the velocity of light. The velocity of sound during the quantum transition equals the velocity of light all the waves propagate at the same velocity. If the magnitude of the forces are equal is the only we can get the same velocity considering the mass is fixed
The quantization of energy is determined of points of electromagnetic and gravitomagnetic accessibility that is the point where all the waves equal that is much more than mechanical and electrical waves being equal it says under that condition its a dielectric condition that the strength of the natural forces is equal and the range is equal

Last edited by JCM; 5th January 2011 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 5th January 2011, 05:33 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
I am speaking of nucleons
there isn't going to be an effect in the nucleons or nucleus during the phase transition of an electron from one shell to another, so either you have garbled something or it is nonsense.
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Old 5th January 2011, 05:34 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Tubbythin View Post
Well "people" certainly talk about sound speed in relation to nuclear incompressibility with "giant resonances". Not that I'm saying this guy isn't talking nonsense.
Compression that makes sense, phase transitions in the electron cloud I am not sure of. feel free to correct me.
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Old 5th January 2011, 05:39 PM   #96
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Quote:
so either you have garbled something
yes that is the case see my latest post
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Old 5th January 2011, 05:50 PM   #97
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Quote:
it's the speed of light. By definition. It's not 1.094x10^6 m/s, it's 3x10^8 m/s.
The speed of light in a B.E.C. is adjustable down to nothing thats why the elastic constant is actually variable but there are points of energetic accessibility where the frequency of the nuclear state equals an integer multiple of the frequency of the electronic state and from that Frank pulled out the structure of the hydrogen atom
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Old 5th January 2011, 05:55 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
The speed of light in a B.E.C. is adjustable down to nothing thats why the elastic constant is actually variable but there are points of energetic accessibility where the frequency of the nuclear state equals an integer multiple of the frequency of the electronic state and from that Frank pulled out the structure of the hydrogen atom
Unintelligible gibberish.

I repeat the question: what "transition wavelength" data do you think agrees with the statement that lambda * f = 1.094x10^6 m/s?
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Old 5th January 2011, 06:08 PM   #99
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Frank's classical radius of the electron shows that the fields of matter are pinned into the structure of matter at that classical radius of the electron like you pin fields in to a superconductor by adding discontinuities. With that model you get the phase velocity equals the velocity the phase velocity equals the velocity of light the group velocity equals the movement of the structure and all of special relativity emerging under that condition
Looking at the Compton frequency, the De broglie wave being the Doppler shifted reflected Compton frequency emerges naturally from this model out of that condition
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Old 5th January 2011, 06:09 PM   #100
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Quote:
Unintelligible gibberish.
True or not?
Quote:
The speed of light in a B.E.C. is adjustable down
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Old 5th January 2011, 06:21 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Frank's classical radius of the electron shows that the fields of matter are pinned into the structure of matter at that classical radius of the electron like you pin fields in to a superconductor by adding discontinuities. With that model you get the phase velocity equals the velocity the phase velocity equals the velocity of light the group velocity equals the movement of the structure and all of special relativity emerging under that condition
Looking at the Compton frequency, the De broglie wave being the Doppler shifted reflected Compton frequency emerges naturally from this model out of that condition
More gibberish.

Originally Posted by JCM View Post
True or not?
Quote:
the speed of light in a BEC is adjustable down
In certain BECs you can select a narrow wavelength band---very, very narrow---and adjust the speed of that light and nothing else. There is no unusual distortion of the speed of other frequencies, or of other particles. So what? All transparent materials change the speed of propagation of certain wavelengths---glass, water, air, diamond, etc. BECs just do it to an unusual degree.

There is certainly no distortion of the fundamental constant known as the speed of light. For example, if you're measuring the time-dilation of muon decay, and you need to calculate 1/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2), the value of c is 3e8 m/s as always---it makes no difference whether the muon is in vacuum, in glass, or in a BEC.
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Old 5th January 2011, 07:07 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
what is the mechanical equivalent of a gluon?
It certainly isn't a phonon... phonons are an acoustical phenomenon, whereas gluons are the particle which mediate the strong nuclear force. Your question seems to want to compare apples to oranges.
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Old 5th January 2011, 07:10 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Frank's classical radius of the electron shows that the fields of matter are pinned into the structure of matter at that classical radius of the electron like you pin fields in to a superconductor by adding discontinuities. With that model you get the phase velocity equals the velocity the phase velocity equals the velocity of light the group velocity equals the movement of the structure and all of special relativity emerging under that condition
Looking at the Compton frequency, the De broglie wave being the Doppler shifted reflected Compton frequency emerges naturally from this model out of that condition
Does anyone want some dressing with this word salad?

Seriously, JCM, none of what you wrote here makes sense.
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Old 5th January 2011, 07:15 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
What's in the brackets!>??!?!?!>?!>!!>?@>?
But wait I thought all of this was IMPOSSIBLE?
How do you find out the value for the charge Q???
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Old 5th January 2011, 07:20 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by mike3 View Post
How do you find out the value for the charge Q???
Energy upon mass?
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Old 5th January 2011, 07:27 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by MattusMaximus View Post
It certainly isn't a phonon... phonons are an acoustical phenomenon, whereas gluons are the particle which mediate the strong nuclear force. Your question seems to want to compare apples to oranges.
what I meant was
Quote:
nucleons acting as marbles and looking at the forces in between them like phonons
and that
Quote:
the electrical force balances the nuclear force
to get the
Quote:
propagation of waves
equating to the
Quote:
velocity of sound within the nucleus
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Old 5th January 2011, 07:27 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by MattusMaximus View Post
Energy upon mass?
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Old 5th January 2011, 07:30 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
what I meant was

and that

to get the

equating to the
Umm... no.
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Old 5th January 2011, 07:39 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by MattusMaximus View Post
Umm... no.
What do you mean how is it not true when you view the model as analogous to nucleons acting as marbles and looking at the forces in between them like phonons (that is they are when the electrical force balances the nuclear force resulting in the propagation of waves) these phonon like waves yield the velocity of "sound" within the nucleus

this "velocity of sound" equals the propagations in the electron environment
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Old 5th January 2011, 11:01 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
What do you mean how is it not true when you view the model as analogous to nucleons acting as marbles and looking at the forces in between them like phonons (that is they are when the electrical force balances the nuclear force resulting in the propagation of waves) these phonon like waves yield the velocity of "sound" within the nucleus

this "velocity of sound" equals the propagations in the electron environment
JCM, please spend the necessary time to construct coherent sentences next time.

If you're trying to advocate for this theory ... well, you're doing a good job of making it sound like crackpottery. "With friends like these, who needs enemies?"
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Old 5th January 2011, 11:51 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by MattusMaximus View Post
Does anyone want some dressing with this word salad?

Seriously, JCM, none of what you wrote here makes sense.
I know, lets see, we have JCM world-salad and links to youtube videos. I wonder how many people have actually watched youtube videos.

I don't know about anyone else, but I absolutely hate watching youtube videos of explanations of anything. Just give the text, and some diagrams if necessary. Things like footnotes then fit in nicely.
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Old 5th January 2011, 11:53 PM   #112
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I don't think its an accident that there is only one google result for "propagations in the electron environment". I'm sure you all can guess what the result is.
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Old 6th January 2011, 12:42 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by ben m View Post
JCM, please spend the necessary time to construct coherent sentences next time.

If you're trying to advocate for this theory ... well, you're doing a good job of making it sound like crackpottery. "With friends like these, who needs enemies?"
I was thinking this as well haha. I have gotten ahead of myself and enjoy the jrefs ability to help refine my viewpoint to something more coherent or at least logically presented
Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
I know, lets see, we have JCM world-salad and links to youtube videos. I wonder how many people have actually watched youtube videos.

I don't know about anyone else, but I absolutely hate watching youtube videos of explanations of anything. Just give the text, and some diagrams if necessary. Things like footnotes then fit in nicely.
I can provide a rough powerpoint Znidarsic made and the papers and the video below which is Frank himself. I obviously cannot offfer a summation for a damn so I will not
Quote:
I don't think its an accident that there is only one google result for "propagations in the electron environment".
Its hard to find the 1.32fm proton radius too.

This is Znidarsic's 25 minute Lecture at John Hopkins only himself speaking. The lecture is old
Part One
Part Two
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Old 6th January 2011, 12:59 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Its hard to find the 1.32fm proton radius too.
I'm not surprised. The radius of a proton is 0.84184 fm. Published in Nature last year.

Linky

Pohl et al, Nature, 466, 213-216
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Old 6th January 2011, 01:14 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Evilgiraffe View Post
I'm not surprised. The radius of a proton is 0.84184 fm. Published in Nature last year.

Linky

Pohl et al, Nature, 466, 213-216
Thanks for that I explained a little earlier I mean the edge of fuzz as it were isn't the .84 is the density ignoring the whole?
Georgia State University states

but really its 1.36fm
references for the 1.36fm
Nuclear collective excitations in Landau Fermi Liquid Theory
Bao Xi Sun
Institute of Theoretical Physics
College of Applied Sciences
Beijing University of Technology
PACS numbers 21.10 Re, 21.30, Fe 21.65-f, 71.10 Ay

J Physique 48 (1987) 1479=1491
Classification
Physics Abstracts
24.10C -24.10 H - 25.70 C
Microscopic analysis of nucleus-nucleus elastic scattering at intermediate energies
B. Bonin

Whops they list it at to -1 but that is momentum space of course

This speed of sound of the nucleus has nothing to do with sound waves its just being used as an analogy to mechanical waves


















Force Max = Right up until the coulombic barrier
coulombic barrier being Rc also the classical radius of the proton
with two protons

So 2 R c is also the classical radius of the electron
Fmax between two repelling protons is 29.05 newtons

which is









Plug that back into

and it's close to

meaning the FSC is
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Old 6th January 2011, 01:23 AM   #116
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And with these equations you can ge tthe orbits of the hydrogen





is

is

is

is

Solving for R we get

bracketed being radius of the hydrogen atom
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Old 6th January 2011, 01:27 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
Two things:
1) Looks like Bisahdi got a new posting name.
2) I dont see how this links Newton and the world of the Quanta.
Dont know Bisahdi

Newton comes in here


to find the radius of the Muonic atom 285fm



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Old 6th January 2011, 02:20 AM   #118
Tubbythin
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Originally Posted by ben m View Post
... and that sound speed is much faster than 10^6 m/s. It's something like 3x10^7 m/s.
I found an abstract suggesting 0.04c, ie, ~107 m/s. Either way its bigger.

Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
Compression that makes sense, phase transitions in the electron cloud I am not sure of. feel free to correct me.
Nope, no idea what he is talking about here.
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:24 AM   #119
JCM
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Originally Posted by Tubbythin View Post

Nope, no idea what he is talking about here.
Here is everything in a pdf
http://www.wbabin.net/ntham/davis.pdf
it explains why the electron doesn't ever crash into the nucleus
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Old 6th January 2011, 04:24 AM   #120
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Papers Conclusion

I have shown how the three major aspects of quantum nature can be formulated from the ground up in a few simple steps. Furthermore, I have shown that this is the only model which truly shows the reasoning for how the trio of intrinsic lengths (r-e, lambda-e, and ao)are all related by the fine structure constant, and I've also shown how the fine structure constant and Planck's constant are in reality both made up of two forms of constituent constants. The two basic equations to describe each are both in terms of the fundamental constants. Even the mass of the electron can be expressed in multiple ways with these fundamental constants, and doesn't require experimental measurement. The immense amount of equalities listed in this paper show beyond any reasonable doubt that the new constants introduced by Znidarsic (ct, Fmax, rc) are not coincidental. The relationships that they comprise are real and insurmountable. Furthermore, this model sheds light on why the electron cannot crash into the nucleus, as one would expect. The electron has to transition from parent state to daughter state through the transitional (collapsed) subset of the wavefunction. There is no collapsed transitional wavefunction smaller than ground state transitional orbital (rc for the hydrogen atom), because that is the smallest multiple that it can be; only positive integers are allowed for the factor of n. Because there is no transitional state for it to transition to from the ground state, in essence; there is no daughter state for it to transition into during it's transitional (collapsed) wavefunction progression. This essentially locks the electron into the ground state orbital (it can only jump higher, not lower), rendering it into a state of perpetual motion; that if left undisturbed, will stay in motion until the end of the universe. This paper is the rst time in history that a theory for true causation has been given to explain this phenomenon, and although the novel theories presented in this paper would be nonexistent without Frank Znidarsic's groundwork, the collapsed transitional wavefunction theory is this author's contribution that leads us to glean this understanding of the mechanism for why electrons cannot transgress past the ground state energy level. Furthermore, this model gives an explanation for why the electron transitions from one orbital to the next, instead of transitioning straight from an orbital level higher than 2, down to orbital level 1 (a0). This is because the orbitals have to transition from parent state to daughter state via the transitional ollapsed wavefunction subset. Each collapsed transitional wavefunction is modeled as its own individual spring. These separate springs are not congruent; they can only transfer to the immediately neighboring energy level through the transitional subset. Once one transition takes place, there is a discontinuity because of the dierent springs relating to the dierent static/transitional orbitals. A photon representing the jump from only a single energy level is released as the transition in the energy level of the atom is made. A new probability of transition is then related to daughter orbital, and a new corresponding transitional subset. After over one hundred years of complete mystery (compounded by willful ignorance) regarding the causations which give birth to the quantum mechanical nature that is undeniably observed, the rst look past the simple mechanics of quantum nature to the explanations for causation; the rst true look at quantum physics has taken root and begun to sprout.
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Last edited by JCM; 6th January 2011 at 04:32 AM.
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