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Tags Bose-Einstein condensates , cold fusion , Coulomb barrier , Eugene Podkletnov , Frank Znidarsic , planck's constant , quantum mechanics , quantum theory , Quantum Transition

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Old 6th January 2011, 02:49 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Is not the edge of the proton fuzzy the "average spacing between nucleons in large nuclei" is akin to the edge of proton fuzziness
No. The "fuzziness" doesn't have an edge worth defining at all.

You're just fishing for an excuse to imagine you're right.
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Old 6th January 2011, 02:51 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Well break down the mathematic in the paper equation by equation
It's exactly the same math that you posted in 36-point font earlier in the thread.
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Old 6th January 2011, 02:52 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
If the priests mention it in the chapel then you must seriously look at it. The dogma is mind boggling think for yourselves only now that phyorg says well maybe there is something to this do you take a look. what about all the time before your priests said this might be possible
But thanks for the link for those that do need clergy it give some credence to the idea of it being at least possible, the first of many hurdles
Yes, lets instead take the word of someone who doesn't understand the double slit experiment (and misunderstands it in a very amusing way).
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Old 6th January 2011, 02:53 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
the news does what it will. You are drawing parallells between non related things please clairifiy how doing a cold fusion experiment would somehow cause him to become the richest person on the planet instantaneously?
Well. Here's why I'm bringing this up:

Originally Posted by JCM View Post
At a uniform 50 - 10 nm palladium, cold fusion with palladium is reduplicated easily and has been around the world
Yes. If he'd accomplished cold fusion, then clean and near limitless energy could be had by all. The energy crisis would end before it really began, and odds are countless lives would be saved. So yeah, I consider my question pretty relavent, especially since you as the OP brought it in to the discussion.

You made the claim that cold fusion has been accomplished. You further that by saying that it has been replicated around the world. I'm asking you either back up your claim, or withdraw it.

Originally Posted by JCM View Post
And his house to magically go off the grid instantaneously. Or even every nuclear, coal, and natural gas power plant in the world been shut down or reconfigured to use cold fusion in an instant.
Yes. I'm quite sure if cold fusion had been achieved, this would be extremely newsworthy, and the upgrades would have begun at a furious pace. Yet it has not.

Originally Posted by JCM View Post
there are many steps between what you purport will happen as a matter of cause from cold fusion success and it is factious of you to be so ignorant.
Can you prove that step 1 has even begun? Or how about my original question? Prove that this guy has actually achieved cold fusion. Can you do that? You made the claim, now back it up. Thank you. Oh, and feel free to skip the pithy personal attacks, they aren't adding anything of value to this discussion.
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Old 6th January 2011, 02:56 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
Yes, lets instead take the word of someone who doesn't understand the double slit experiment (and misunderstands it in a very amusing way).
Who are you talking about here, has Frank got anything to do with the link I provided?
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Old 6th January 2011, 02:56 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Skwinty View Post
Here is a link to cold fusion research in2010. http://www.physorg.com/news188377829.html

'Cold fusion' moves closer to mainstream acceptance
A new "calorimeter," shown immersed in this water bath, provides the first inexpensive means of identifying the hallmark of cold fusion reactions: the production of excess heat. Credit: Melvin Miles
A potential new energy source so controversial that people once regarded it as junk science is moving closer to acceptance by the mainstream scientific community. That's the conclusion of the organizer of one of the largest scientific sessions on the topic -- "cold fusion" -- being held in San Francisco for the next two days in the Moscone Center during the 239th National Meeting of the American Chemical Society (ACS).

Any credence in this progress?
Funny how no one gave your post any thought. Of course there is credence.
Michael McKubre, Ph.D
George Miley, Ph.D
Melvin Miles, Ph.D
Vladimir Vysotskii, Ph.D
Tadahiko Mizuno, Ph.D
Peter Hagelstein, Ph.D
and of course Dr Li
Xing Zhong Li, Ph.D., presents research demonstrating that cold fusion can occur without the production of strong nuclear radiation. He is developing a cold fusion reactor that demonstrates this principle. Li is a scientist with Tsinghua University in Beijing, China
But none of these people rule the wolrd so according to Earl they haven't done a thing. They need flying cars and gridless homes with cold fusion plants for it to be real accoring to my name is earl
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Old 6th January 2011, 02:58 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
But none of these people rule the wolrd so according to Earl they haven't done a thing. They need flying cars and gridless homes with cold fusion plants for it to be real accoring to my name is earl
Can you answer my questions without resorting to childish tantrums and personal attacks?
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:00 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
Yes, lets instead take the word of someone who doesn't understand the double slit experiment (and misunderstands it in a very amusing way).
Please explain what you state Franks understanding of it is and what your understanding of it is. Clearly please. How does Frank's model explain the experiment? Since you know he doesn't understand it you must then know how he doesn't that is specifically what is wrong with his view
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:02 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by ben m View Post
No. The "fuzziness" doesn't have an edge worth defining at all.
Actually it does and it 1.36fm. The edge is the the edge of interactions so yes sorry it does play a role. Just as the earths atmosphere plays a role you can say the radius of the earth is the crust but that is not the whole picture buddy
You're just fishing for an excuse to dismiss the math in this theory.
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:05 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Mister Earl View Post
Can you answer my questions without resorting to childish tantrums and personal attacks?
Your questions are childish I already answered them. I didnt state cold fusion has been replicated everywhere I said multiple place around the world. I didnt state about money news power plants. You are saying if a then b,c,d, etc... Im saying there is no correlation. You do not become the richest man in the world by simple discovering a new source of energy. it takes a lot of steps and for you to say well there is no d so a has not been accomplished is a logical fallacy. What is the rate of this supposed "change" you espouse will take place? I mean you ignore vested interests amongst a plethora of other things. Not everyone accepts the science yet so why would everything suddenly change.

Show me how any of what you are saying is not strawmen or false correlations
I mean can anyone help me here Earl is obviously asking illegitimate questions in not just my eyes right?
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:08 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Skwinty View Post
Who are you talking about here, has Frank got anything to do with the link I provided?
I'm talking about Frank's statement that the double slit experiment has something to do with wavewidth. (which unless I'm really mistaken, it based on wavelength)
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:10 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
I'm talking about Frank's statement that the double slit experiment has something to do with wavewidth. (which unless I'm really mistaken, it based on wavelength)
OK, maybe I should try and read it sometime.
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:11 PM   #173
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Earl Xing Zhong Li presents research demonstrating that cold fusion can occur without the production of strong nuclear radiation. He is developing a cold fusion reactor that demonstrates this principle. Why is not Dr. Li richer than Helu?
If cold fusion can occur without the production of strong nuclear radiation you would think all coal nucleur hydro gas and other power plants would simply shut down if not phase completely out of existence I mean right Im not being facetious right
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:14 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Is not the edge of the proton fuzzy the "average spacing between nucleons in large nuclei" is akin to the edge of proton fuzziness
No. If I were to charge two balloons each with a net negative charge, and they repelled each other to a distance of 10cm, would you conclude that electrons are then 10cm in diameter?
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:16 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by MattusMaximus View Post
No. If I were to charge two balloons each with a net negative charge, and they repelled each other to a distance of 10cm, would you conclude that electrons are then 10cm in diameter?
No you are right but could nothing be garnered from such a macro level about the micro?
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:16 PM   #176
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Maybe he is equating width with E amplitude.

But then height should equate to B amplitude.

oh wait, I suppose that would depend on his his frame of reference so maybe width applies to both.

Sounds like a an inspiring read.
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:17 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Well break down the mathematic in the paper equation by equation
It doesn't matter what the math says if it is based upon false premises to begin with. I can say 3 + 4 = 7 all day long, and it would be correct in math classes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that if I add a vector of length 3 with a vector of length 4, then I'll always get a vector of length 7. Physics is more than just a blind application of math.
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:18 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Is not the edge of the proton fuzzy the "average spacing between nucleons in large nuclei" is akin to the edge of proton fuzziness
Originally Posted by MattusMaximus View Post
No. If I were to charge two balloons each with a net negative charge, and they repelled each other to a distance of 10cm, would you conclude that electrons are then 10cm in diameter?
Originally Posted by JCM View Post
No you are right but could nothing be garnered from such a macro level about the micro?
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:23 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Your questions are childish
Actually, they're quite relevant, considering the topic.

Originally Posted by JCM View Post
I already answered them.
No, you waved your hand and pretended my questions weren't there.

Originally Posted by JCM View Post
I didnt state cold fusion has been replicated everywhere I said multiple place around the world.
And I asked you to prove it. I'm waiting.

Originally Posted by JCM View Post
I didnt state about money news power plants. You are saying if a then b,c,d, etc... Im saying there is no correlation.
What I said was, if this guy had actually created cold fusion, then yes, he'd be rich already. Sure, the technology would take time to mature. But he'd also be one of the most famous people in the world. He'd be touring about. He'd be on every talk show. People would be paying him obscene amounts of money to talk at various conferences. Why is this not happening? Please answer.

Originally Posted by JCM View Post
You do not become the richest man in the world by simple discovering a new source of energy.
Perhaps not. But neither would they remain in the backround, avoiding peer-reviewed scientific journals like the plague.

Originally Posted by JCM View Post
it takes a lot of steps and for you to say well there is no d so a has not been accomplished is a logical fallacy. What is the rate of this supposed "change" you espouse will take place?
Step one would be worldwide recognition for the amazing scientific advance that has taken place. This has not happened yet. Why? Please answer.

Originally Posted by JCM View Post
I mean you ignore vested interests amongst a plethora of other things.
No, I ignore baseless claims. I ask for evidence. That's how things work around here.

Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Not everyone accepts the science yet so why would everything suddenly change.
If he were able to produce cold fusion under scientifically controlled conditions, then "The science would be accepted". That's how science works.
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:24 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by MattusMaximus View Post
It doesn't matter what the math says if it is based upon false premises to begin with. I can say 3 + 4 = 7 all day long, and it would be correct in math classes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that if I add a vector of length 3 with a vector of length 4, then I'll always get a vector of length 7. Physics is more than just a blind application of math.
You are right about Physics. I did say way back Im into the math not physics. But what algebraic terms are being "mis-defined" as it were?
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:26 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Mister Earl View Post
Perhaps not. But neither would they remain in the backround, avoiding peer-reviewed scientific journals like the plague.
I certainly would, given the history of cold fusion.
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:26 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Earl Xing Zhong Li presents research demonstrating that cold fusion can occur without the production of strong nuclear radiation. He is developing a cold fusion reactor that demonstrates this principle. Why is not Dr. Li richer than Helu?
If cold fusion can occur without the production of strong nuclear radiation you would think all coal nucleur hydro gas and other power plants would simply shut down if not phase completely out of existence I mean right Im not being facetious right
You say things as if you expect me to take your word as fact. That is not how things work around here. When you make a claim, expect to have to provide proof.
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:28 PM   #183
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Quote:
if this guy had actually created cold fusion, then yes, he'd be rich already.
Not necessarily
Quote:
he'd also be one of the most famous people in the world. He'd be touring about. He'd be on every talk show. People would be paying him obscene amounts of money to talk at various conferences.
You not only suppose to know what his actions would be but what the actions of others would be as well? How are you deriving these absolutes? How is it absolute any of what you said would happen would happen
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:29 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Mister Earl View Post
You say things as if you expect me to take your word as fact. That is not how things work around here. When you make a claim, expect to have to provide proof.
What do you want to back up Dr Li? You now doubt Dr. Li. Im using the phyorg link your chapel for planck's sake
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:32 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Mister Earl View Post
You say things as if you expect me to take your word as fact. That is not how things work around here. When you make a claim, expect to have to provide proof.
Exactly give me proof cold fusion success would equate to any of the results you state would happen. Where has cold fusion research been successful and produced the effects you have stated would happen? Oh wait it hasn't ever. What proof do you have the next cold fusion success's reseacher will be as rich as helu? you have no proof only suppositions your attempt to detract from the issue at hand the theory not the theoreticians wealth is laughable
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:33 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Actually it does and it 1.36fm.
The edge is the the edge of interactions so yes sorry it does play a role.
"Actually it does"---and your evidence for this is what? It's a number you found associated with nuclei on some web pages you don't understand.

If the forces "have an edge" at 1.36 fm, why does the deuterium nucleus have a radius of ~2.1 fm?

Quote:
Just as the earths atmosphere plays a role you can say the radius of the earth is the crust but that is not the whole picture buddy
The atmosphere doesn't have an edge either. It just gets gradually thinner as you go out.
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:36 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by ben m View Post
The atmosphere doesn't have an edge either. It just gets gradually thinner as you go out.
Right, all the way to the oort cloud and beyond I'm sure

This is exactly what I am saying about the proton it "just gets gradually thinner as you go out" at it's thinnest would be the edge
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Old 6th January 2011, 03:38 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Not necessarily

You not only suppose to know what his actions would be but what the actions of others would be as well? How are you deriving these absolutes? How is it absolute any of what you said would happen would happen
Ok, I'll use an easier scenario for you. Why haven't I ever heard of this guy before? Keep in mind this is coming from someone who spends all day reading news on the internet.

Originally Posted by JCM View Post
What do you want to back up Dr Li? You now doubt Dr. Li. Im using the phyorg link your chapel for planck's sake
Do you have a link where this Dr. Li proved cold fusion in a peer-reviewed, scientific journal?

Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Exactly give me proof cold fusion success would equate to any of the results you state would happen. Where has cold fusion research been successful and produced the effects you have stated would happen? Oh wait it hasn't ever. What proof do you have the next cold fusion success's reseacher will be as rich as helu? you have no proof only suppositions your attempt to detract from the issue at hand the theory not the theoreticians wealth is laughable
I asked you to prove this guy has successfully created cold fusion. Please stop dodging the question.

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Old 6th January 2011, 03:53 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Mister Earl View Post
Ok, I'll use an easier scenario for you. Why haven't I ever heard of this guy before? Keep in mind this is coming from someone who spends all day reading news on the internet.



Do you have a link where this Dr. Li proved cold fusion in a peer-reviewed, scientific journal?



I asked you to prove this guy has successfully created cold fusion. Please stop dodging the question.
Ok this is more coherent and addressable a post than the broad baseless questions you asked earlier. Sorry if I come off as anyway pompous or confrontational
As far as why you have not heard of him I am not sure put I can reference his predecessors. Znidarsic claims to have been present at Eugene Podkletnov superconductive research have you heard of him? Franks work stems from that and Podkletnov's stimulation frequency of 1 MHz m. There are other researchers maybe more well known from which frank draws upon I even think Dr Li being one but I will get those researchers names and try to address your question more fully

I'll get the Li and other PhD I ref'd peer review links.

I must retract the claim he has successfully created cold fusion. He has a theory that can explain some aspects cold fusion that are not fully currently and was present at cold fusion related superconductive research by Podkletnov
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Old 6th January 2011, 04:06 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Right, all the way to the oort cloud and beyond I'm sure

This is exactly what I am saying about the proton it "just gets gradually thinner as you go out" at it's thinnest would be the edge
It doesn't have a "thinnest". If you tell me how thin it is at 1000km, I can guarantee it's even thinner at 1100km. And so on.

Outside of the core, the density of a proton drops as something like (e^(-ar))/r (the Yukawa coupling).

Go ahead, JCM, play with that formula for a while. Get out your calculator, plug in a=0.8, and see if you can find an value of r that looks like an "edge" where the density is "smallest".
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Old 6th January 2011, 04:59 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
You are right about Physics. I did say way back Im into the math not physics. But what algebraic terms are being "mis-defined" as it were?
Try going back to he very first page of the thread... and read... carefully.

Repeat until you get it right.
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Old 6th January 2011, 06:58 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Right, all the way to the oort cloud and beyond I'm sure

This is exactly what I am saying about the proton it "just gets gradually thinner as you go out" at it's thinnest would be the edge
So by extension, the electron does crash into the nucleus! Bohr was wrong and none of us exist!
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Old 7th January 2011, 10:35 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
well this is why not the complicated stuff you claim "makes sense" Would you have me believe if everyone wasn't looking at the moon it would collapse into a wavefunction? and can you at least admit you were wrong about the radius of a proton at least the FULL radius
Excuse me, you do know that the wave function does not collapse? It is a wave function, before, during and after an interaction. Now the Copenhagen interpretation talks about collapse but it is not a real phenomena, the wave function may become constrained but it does not collapse, it can't, HIP says it can't.
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Old 7th January 2011, 10:38 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
I didnt say uniformly replicated nor standardized prototyped and made commercially viable did I?
So far you did not present replications either.
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Old 7th January 2011, 10:40 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
the news does what it will. You are drawing parallells between non related things please clairifiy how doing a cold fusion experiment would somehow cause him to become the richest person on the planet instantaneously? And his house to magically go off the grid instantaneously. Or even every nuclear, coal, and natural gas power plant in the world been shut down or reconfigured to use cold fusion in an instant. there are many steps between what you purport will happen as a matter of cause from cold fusion success and it is factious of you to be so ignorant.
Please show the ciations and data for the replication of cold fusion.
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Old 7th January 2011, 10:42 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
If the priests mention it in the chapel then you must seriously look at it. The dogma is mind boggling think for yourselves only now that phyorg says well maybe there is something to this do you take a look. what about all the time before your priests said this might be possible
But thanks for the link for those that do need clergy it give some credence to the idea of it being at least possible, the first of many hurdles
This makes you look like a crank, the fact that other people critique your argument does not mean they are dogmatic, and the fact that you resort to this weakens your argument.
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Old 7th January 2011, 10:45 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Funny how no one gave your post any thought. Of course there is credence.
Michael McKubre, Ph.D
George Miley, Ph.D
Melvin Miles, Ph.D
Vladimir Vysotskii, Ph.D
Tadahiko Mizuno, Ph.D
Peter Hagelstein, Ph.D
and of course Dr Li
Xing Zhong Li, Ph.D., presents research demonstrating that cold fusion can occur without the production of strong nuclear radiation. He is developing a cold fusion reactor that demonstrates this principle. Li is a scientist with Tsinghua University in Beijing, China
But none of these people rule the wolrd so according to Earl they haven't done a thing. They need flying cars and gridless homes with cold fusion plants for it to be real accoring to my name is earl
Funny, you list names but cite no papers or research, why is that?

Are they published, are they not good protocols, why not link to the papers?
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Old 7th January 2011, 10:46 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Your questions are childish I already answered them. I didnt state cold fusion has been replicated everywhere I said multiple place around the world.
And you provided no citations, no data, no evidence.

Why is that?
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Old 7th January 2011, 10:49 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Earl Xing Zhong Li presents research demonstrating that cold fusion can occur without the production of strong nuclear radiation. He is developing a cold fusion reactor that demonstrates this principle. Why is not Dr. Li richer than Helu?
If cold fusion can occur without the production of strong nuclear radiation you would think all coal nucleur hydro gas and other power plants would simply shut down if not phase completely out of existence I mean right Im not being facetious right
Why aren't you citing his research?
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Old 7th January 2011, 10:53 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by JCM View Post
Not necessarily

You not only suppose to know what his actions would be but what the actions of others would be as well? How are you deriving these absolutes? How is it absolute any of what you said would happen would happen
How come you aren't citing his research?
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