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Tags China issues , China-Hong Kong relations , Hong Kong incidents , Hong Kong issues , protest incidents

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Old 13th June 2019, 04:44 AM   #1
3point14
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Hong Kong

It's all going off in Hong Kong. I can't find a thread about it.

Anyway, here's a journalist being supplied with essential protest kit by those that came better prepared:

https://preview.redd.it/8cl1whsq1343...t=mp4&612e525d



Is it too much of a stretch to remember 1989 at this time?
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Old 13th June 2019, 11:12 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
It's all going off in Hong Kong. I can't find a thread about it.

Anyway, here's a journalist being supplied with essential protest kit by those that came better prepared:

https://preview.redd.it/8cl1whsq1343...t=mp4&612e525d



Is it too much of a stretch to remember 1989 at this time?
This is the sort of thing these kids are resisting

"The demonstrators also appeared mindful of Beijing's growing use of electronic surveillance, such as facial recognition technology, to build dossiers on those it considers politically unreliable, and many of them wore surgical masks to hide their features as well as reduce the effects of tear gas."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/new...ectid=12240312

China is one thoroughly evil empire.
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Old 13th June 2019, 11:17 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post

Is it too much of a stretch to remember 1989 at this time?
not at all.
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Old 13th June 2019, 02:48 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
China is one thoroughly evil empire.


On my recent trip to Asia, I visited several police states, but China was the only one that felt like a police state. They really wanted you to know that they considered you a threat, even if you were just there on vacation.
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Old 13th June 2019, 03:07 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
On my recent trip to Asia, I visited several police states, but China was the only one that felt like a police state. They really wanted you to know that they considered you a threat, even if you were just there on vacation.
Yeah, there's not a lot of velvet glove these days, and plenty of iron fist.

People in HK & Taiwan need to accept that they're part of China and there's absolutely nothing they can do about it.

HK, in particular, should have seen this coming for the past 20 years and more - the two-state system would only work as long it suits China, which involved HK shutting up and making money.

Have your hookers and blow, but don't piss off the Party.
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Old 14th June 2019, 12:16 AM   #6
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This was always on the cards, China gave Patton a fig leaf for his domestic audience but China was always clear that "two systems one country" was a temporary measure. And China "conceded" that for for the simple reason it didn't want to disrupt the cash cow.
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Old 14th June 2019, 02:07 AM   #7
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I find it interesting that those people who are constantly screaming about how the UK and the US are becoming police states are noticeably silent when it comes to this obvious and actual police state. Infowars, for example- yes, I held my nose and had a quick peek- is ignoring this story entirely.
Funny, that.
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Old 14th June 2019, 02:29 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
I find it interesting that those people who are constantly screaming about how the UK and the US are becoming police states are noticeably silent when it comes to this obvious and actual police state. Infowars, for example- yes, I held my nose and had a quick peek- is ignoring this story entirely.
Funny, that.
It really is 1984 being rolled out, but with critical mass.
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Old 14th June 2019, 07:20 PM   #9
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There are some positive developments, a few officials have sided with the protestors. The decision on the legislation has been postponed.
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Old 15th June 2019, 04:14 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
There are some positive developments, a few officials have sided with the protestors. The decision on the legislation has been postponed.
How long, do you think, before those officials mysteriously disappear?
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Old 16th June 2019, 10:16 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
It's all going off in Hong Kong. I can't find a thread about it.

Anyway, here's a journalist being supplied with essential protest kit by those that came better prepared:

https://preview.redd.it/8cl1whsq1343...t=mp4&612e525d

Is it too much of a stretch to remember 1989 at this time?
I said it back in 1998 that Kong Kongers will rue the day they went from British rule to Chinese rule.

I hate being right sometimes.

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Old 17th June 2019, 11:55 PM   #12
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There was an interesting interview with the BBC's china correspondent saying here was no reporting about this in China.

The BBC also reported 2 million people were involved in the demonstration, I think this indicates just how scared the people of Hong Kong are of the Chinese legal system. In theory having an extradition agreement between Hong Kong and China sounds reasonable obviously the reality would be quite scary. Certainly the church leaders interviewed took the view that they would be at risk of extradition.
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Old 18th June 2019, 07:15 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post

The BBC also reported 2 million people were involved in the demonstration, I think this indicates just how scared the people of Hong Kong are of the Chinese legal system. In theory having an extradition agreement between Hong Kong and China sounds reasonable obviously the reality would be quite scary.
Quite scary indeed:

“China is harvesting organs from detainees, tribunal concludes”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...unal-concludes



Associated note, Chris patten challenges Jon snow for the knew nothing crown:

“Sometimes it is difficult to avoid the rather gloomy thought that we are seeing the emergence of a superpower that does not believe in individual human rights. “ - from his guardian opinion piece
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Old 18th June 2019, 08:22 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
“Sometimes it is difficult to avoid the rather gloomy thought that we are seeing the emergence of a superpower that does not believe in individual human rights. “ - from his guardian opinion piece
This is why it's so hard to trust the media. China has been such a superpower for two generations now. We're not seeing the emergence of sweet bless all. We're seeing the next phase in the evolution of something that emerged almost a hundred years ago.

And yet this silliness is what passes for helpful commentary to the modern masses. Children who were born yesterday and only started thinking about China this morning.
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Old 18th June 2019, 08:41 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
I said it back in 1998 that Kong Kongers will rue the day they went from British rule to Chinese rule.

I hate being right sometimes.

McHrozni
It’s not like they wanted to. I think they rued the day before it was even the day.
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Old 18th June 2019, 09:05 AM   #16
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In this particular instance I think it sounds like this was thought up by Carrie Lam, probably to gain her personal brownie points with her masters rather than coming direct from the Chinese government. I would have thought if it had come from the Chinese government there is no way in a decade of Sundays they would allow it to be reversed or put aside.
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Old 18th June 2019, 10:04 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This is why it's so hard to trust the media. China has been such a superpower for two generations now. We're not seeing the emergence of sweet bless all. We're seeing the next phase in the evolution of something that emerged almost a hundred years ago.

And yet this silliness is what passes for helpful commentary to the modern masses. Children who were born yesterday and only started thinking about China this morning.
Hell, Tiananmen Square was 30 years ago. I have seen nothing since then to suggest that China has improved in matters of human rights.
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Old 18th June 2019, 10:12 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
It’s not like they wanted to. I think they rued the day before it was even the day.
It's not like there was anything the people of Hong Kong, or the government of the UK, for that matter, could have done about it other than get a lot of people killed. IIRC, the treaty that put Hong Kong under British rule gave the UK a 99 year lease on Hong Kong, and the government of China said they wanted Hong Kong back. The UK certainly lacked the military strength to effectively contest it if they had even wanted to do so.

There might have been a legal argument as to whether a treaty signed with the Chinese Imperial government applied to the current Chinese government, but that would have meant nothing had the Chinese decided to enforce their will militarily.

Last edited by CORed; 18th June 2019 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 18th June 2019, 10:13 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Quite scary indeed:

“China is harvesting organs from detainees, tribunal concludes”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...unal-concludes
Want not - waste not.
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Old 18th June 2019, 10:18 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Want not - waste not.
Damn. That's something I was hoping Larry Niven would prove to be wrong about.
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Old 18th June 2019, 02:06 PM   #21
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Hopefully the seeing of China's government through rose colored eyes is something we will see less of.
CHina has is a brutal dictatorship. End of story.
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Old 18th June 2019, 11:26 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
It’s not like they wanted to. I think they rued the day before it was even the day.
Some did, I'm sure.
Generally though? I doubt it.

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Old 19th June 2019, 12:16 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Hopefully the seeing of China's government through rose colored eyes is something we will see less of.
CHina has is a brutal dictatorship. End of story.
yeah, but food and shelter are more urgent needs than freedom of speech.
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Old 20th June 2019, 01:27 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
yeah, but food and shelter are more urgent needs than freedom of speech.
Funny, that sounds an awful lot what the western defenders of Uncle Joe were saying....
And the old "Mussolini is a ruthless murdering dictator but he made the trains run on time" argument.
I am now convinced that the rise of Trump has driven some on the left into their own brand of authoratnism,and this butt kissing of the Chinese Government is a good example of this.
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Old 20th June 2019, 01:28 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Want not - waste not.
God, I hope you are joking or tyring to be edgy.
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Old 20th June 2019, 05:03 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Funny, that sounds an awful lot what the western defenders of Uncle Joe were saying....
And the old "Mussolini is a ruthless murdering dictator but he made the trains run on time" argument.
I am now convinced that the rise of Trump has driven some on the left into their own brand of authoratnism,and this butt kissing of the Chinese Government is a good example of this.
Say what you will about foreign organ-stealing murdering despots but at least they aren’t our domestic opposition!
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Old 20th June 2019, 05:36 PM   #27
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The UK government should be ashamed that they haven't voiced their opinion over this, there were declarations in place.
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Old 20th June 2019, 05:37 PM   #28
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Old 21st June 2019, 11:53 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
The UK government should be ashamed that they haven't voiced their opinion over this, there were declarations in place.
They have done, an example https://www.gov.uk/government/news/f...s-in-hong-kong

I'm quite surprised they've gone that far given how much additional sway China will have over the future of the UK come the end of October.
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Old 22nd June 2019, 01:58 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Hopefully the seeing of China's government through rose colored eyes is something we will see less of.
CHina has is a brutal dictatorship. End of story.
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
yeah, but food and shelter are more urgent needs than freedom of speech.
Is there currently a famine in Hong Kong?
Is there even a significant amount of malnutrition in mainland China?
What about housing? Are significant numbers of Chinese citizens without proper shelter?

I'm asking because I lived in China for a year, and saw no such issues.
Furthermore, even if there were, is there anything preventing the Chinese government from allowing freedom of speech whilst at the same time working on improving access to food and shelter? I don't see how these are mutually exclusive.
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Old 27th June 2019, 04:08 PM   #31
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I find it scary that so manyon the left insist on viewing the Chinese Government through such rose colored glasses.
But I guess it was because the Great Leap Forward was such a great success.
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Old 27th June 2019, 09:44 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
God, I hope you are joking or tyring to be edgy.
Happy to clarify: yes of course it's horrible. I'm sure some people get executed for the crime of being a good match for organ donations to rich/powerful people.


Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Funny, that sounds an awful lot what the western defenders of Uncle Joe were saying....
And the old "Mussolini is a ruthless murdering dictator but he made the trains run on time" argument.
I am now convinced that the rise of Trump has driven some on the left into their own brand of authoratnism,and this butt kissing of the Chinese Government is a good example of this.
I would draw the line after Maslow's basic needs are met: a line China has crossed by now. Below that, I would argue that a dictatorial technocracy saving hundreds of millions from starvation is better than a democracy that can't manage to do that.
And, of course, the power of China means that you can and should criticizes more, not less it's terrible abuses of dissenters and religious minorities: there is no danger that China is going to collapse back to Great Leap levels of poverty.
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Old 28th June 2019, 07:06 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I find it scary that so manyon the left insist on viewing the Chinese Government through such rose colored glasses.

But I guess it was because the Great Leap Forward was such a great success.
I would find it scary if that was the case.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 03:51 AM   #34
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Beijing seem to now be employing gangstars to beat up protestors.

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/2...sts-residents/
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Old 22nd July 2019, 05:35 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Beijing seem to now be employing gangstars to beat up protestors.

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/2...sts-residents/
China continues to avail itself solely of the worst parts of capitalism
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Old 31st July 2019, 12:35 AM   #36
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Violence erupts in New Zealand.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12254476

Beijing puppets pollute New Zealand.
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Old 31st July 2019, 05:02 AM   #37
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And in Australia


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-49159820
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Old 31st July 2019, 06:53 AM   #38
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The Chinese government was never going to allow any genuinely democratic form of government in Hong Kong, because they fear it would increase support for democracy in the mainland.

Consequently it has also been systematically chipping away at the autonomy and independence Hong Kong usually has enjoyed, in an attempt to steer it towards something that looks superficially democratic yet is still under direct control of the Communist party. The most brazen of this was the kidnapping of Chinese political dissidents in Hong Kong and taking them to the Chinese mainland, but far less overt examples are probably more important.

In the end, if the protests continue long enough, China is almost certainly going to crack down and completely subject Hong Kong to martial law. Xi and the rest of the national leadership won't tolerate such an important and prominent part of the country appearing to be in open revolt. They have a need to show that rebellion and mass protests cannot work, ever.
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Old 31st July 2019, 01:40 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
China continues to avail itself solely of the worst parts of capitalism
Just like Russia in that regard.
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Old 31st July 2019, 02:46 PM   #40
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Posts: 8,310
Russia never scared me but China is terrifying in the Pacific.
Russian culture closely matches European, and will default to libertarian values.

He hopes.
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