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Tags Israel issues , Israel-Palestine conflict , Palestine issues

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Old 16th May 2013, 03:36 AM   #241
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The fact is that Israel could single-handedly put an end to all of these boycotts by engaging in those acts & policies that most intelligent people in this world agree are needed for peace.
You know what, I actually doubt they could. The reason is that firstly, a lot of the criticism of Israel is irrational and/or based on ignorance and misunderstandings, and secondly, because it seems Israel's detractors seem hell-bent on disliking her no matter what she does. Just the fact that people actually call the country (and only Israel, mind you, not any of the neighbouring countries) an Apartheid regime speaks novels.

You should perhaps read up on some of the arguments from "Israel's side", rather than only listening to her detractors. A nice place to start would be Israel's withdrawal from Gaza, and what followed.

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Did you also condemn folks for boycotting the Apartheid regime and the Soviet Union?
:facepalm:

Well, it's a step up from comparing them to Nazi Germany, at any rate.
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Old 16th May 2013, 10:00 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I've never really understood this argument.

Does it mean that if Israel said, "Oh sod it, lets just become a totalitarian fascist state!" then people would give the place a break because, well, you don't have the same expectations anymore?
People would still criticize but they wouldn't be able to label them hypocrites. But maybe should ask Steven Hawking, seeing as that's what the thread is about.
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Old 16th May 2013, 05:22 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
People would still criticize but they wouldn't be able to label them hypocrites. But maybe should ask Steven Hawking, seeing as that's what the thread is about.
Indeed. I agree with this and would like to know more about Hawking's decision. But instead we have gone back to the usual tedious Israel/Palestine debate whereby Israel is labelled not just wrong but wronger and even more wronger and perhaps even the most wrongest nation on Earth by the "anti-Zionists" and Stephen Hawking is being accused by those on the MEMRI mailing list of either being racist (at best, apparently!) or (worse) an anti-semite or (even worstest) a terrorist sympathizing genocidal Jew-hating hypocrite in a high-tech wheelchair; a grotesque Blofeld and Joseph Mengele hybrid.
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Old 16th May 2013, 05:40 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Indeed. I agree with this and would like to know more about Hawking's decision. But instead we have gone back to the usual tedious Israel/Palestine debate whereby Israel is labelled not just wrong but wronger and even more wronger and perhaps even the most wrongest nation on Earth by the "anti-Zionists" and Stephen Hawking is being accused by those on the MEMRI mailing list of either being racist (at best, apparently!) or (worse) an anti-semite or (even worstest) a terrorist sympathizing genocidal Jew-hating hypocrite in a high-tech wheelchair; a grotesque Blofeld and Joseph Mengele hybrid.
I'm a Zionist and a MEMRI fan and I've never said anything like this. Has someone on JREF said anything even close to this?
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Old 16th May 2013, 05:43 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
I'm a Zionist and a MEMRI fan and I've never said anything like this. Has someone on JREF said anything even close to this?
Yes.

Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Best case scenario the anti-Israel people are racists who think Arabs are unable to be held to the same standard as Jews or Europeans because they're inferior people. Worst case is they're just anti-semites.
Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
So, is Stephen Hawking a racist or an anti-Semite?
Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Apparently at least racist, since he's not boycotting Palestine. Can't expect Arabs to avoid calls to genocide, can we?
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Old 16th May 2013, 05:48 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
I'm a Zionist and a MEMRI fan and I've never said anything like this. Has someone on JREF said anything even close to this?
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Indeed. I agree with this and would like to know more about Hawking's decision. But instead we have gone back to the usual tedious Israel/Palestine debate whereby Israel is labelled not just wrong but wronger and even more wronger and perhaps even the most wrongest nation on Earth by the "anti-Zionists" and Stephen Hawking is being accused by those on the MEMRI mailing list of either being racist (at best, apparently!) or (worse) an anti-semite or (even worstest) a terrorist sympathizing genocidal Jew-hating hypocrite in a high-tech wheelchair; a grotesque Blofeld and Joseph Mengele hybrid.
I disagree with Wildcat on that, but his comments don't seem anywhere near the highlighted portion.
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Old 16th May 2013, 05:59 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
I disagree with Wildcat on that, but his comments don't seem anywhere near the highlighted portion.
The last bit was a bit of throwaway hyperbole (the clue being my use of ungrammatical phrases such as "even worstest"), which you like to engage in too by the way. Certainly others have found reason to attack him on the grounds that his wheelchair may contain components made in Israel and someone else suggested he get a "Palestinian wheelchair" packed with explosives which others then guffawed merrily over. You must have seen those comments.
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Old 16th May 2013, 06:46 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
The last bit was a bit of throwaway hyperbole (the clue being my use of ungrammatical phrases such as "even worstest"), which you like to engage in too by the way.
You bet I do. And I'll remember this comment fondly the next time someone throws the old "strawman" accusation at me for doing so.


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Certainly others have found reason to attack him on the grounds that his wheelchair may contain components made in Israel
Seems like a perfectly fair point to me, which is why I commented on it. I'm not remotely suggesting Hawking meticulously avoid all products with even a hint of Zionistic taint. I'm saying using cutting edge, custom made Israeli signature technology while boycotting her science and tech academic community is a pretty fine example of hypocrisy.
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Old 17th May 2013, 03:16 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
There's a difference between being anti-Semitic and disagreeing with the policies of the current government of Israel.

Or there should be, anyway.
Completely agree.
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Old 17th May 2013, 03:24 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
So, is Stephen Hawking a racist or an anti-Semite?
Neither.
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Old 17th May 2013, 03:54 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
So, is Stephen Hawking a racist or an anti-Semite?
He's a stacist.
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Old 17th May 2013, 04:42 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
He's a stacist.
Because he's disabled! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Very funny! So funny! Disability is so funny!
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Old 18th May 2013, 06:48 AM   #253
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Back to the OP, why should anyone care what Stephen Hawking thinks about politics?
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Old 18th May 2013, 01:14 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Alt+F4 View Post
Back to the OP, why should anyone care what Stephen Hawking thinks about politics?
Only because it's an important part of the BDS strategy to convince high profile celebrities to participate in the boycott, and they achieved that in this case.
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Old 19th May 2013, 06:01 AM   #255
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It's rare when a person you hold in such high esteem, can rise even higher. What a great, great man Stephen Hawking is.
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Old 19th May 2013, 07:36 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Courier View Post
Someone should have warned Hawking before hand that boycotting Israel would be a grave mistake.

Its ok to boycott China, Venezuela, Cuba, Belorus, Iran, Syria, Bangladesh, Mexico, Nigeria, and Liberia. Those are all fine choices.

But Israel? Oh man, you'll be targeted for destruction by the forces of petty personal attack. Countless waves of accusations of anti-Semitism & Jew-hatred will be thrown at you, day after day, until you are forced to retreat from your unacceptable stance or marginalized as a son of Hitler.

- Has Hawking been destroyed? Has he retreated? Is he now marginalized?
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Old 19th May 2013, 10:46 AM   #257
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Hawking is a moron because he doesn't understand what the basic premise of a boycott is about, to hurt an institution financially. Have your stupid science conference anywhere, have it in my back yard (no smoking please). Where this stupid science fest is does not hurt or help Israel in the least.

Hey Hawking, if you want to protest the actions of Israel then why not conduct a hunger strike on the steps of the British Embassy? This is nothing other than a Facebook "like this photo if you love your mother".
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Old 19th May 2013, 10:48 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by Courier View Post
My supporting the right to boycott them has nothing to do with my view of the everyday Israeli.
There is no "right" to boycott. Either you do it or you don't.
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Old 19th May 2013, 11:43 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
I haven't attacked the boycotting rights of you or Hawking.
Again, there is no "right" to boycott. Either you do it you don't.

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I have attacked the BDS organization because it's led by and largely composed of racists, hypocrites and liars whose true goal is to get rid of Israel.
But a super-smart sciencey guy with no background in Middle Eastern politics says that one of those Middle Eastern nations is wrong about something. People, he is super, super smart and he's in a wheelchair! He must be right.
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Old 19th May 2013, 12:00 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
To be fair, though, what Hawking seems to be doing isn't "boycotting Israel" as much as saying "I don't feel like visiting this convention, 'cause I'm sorta peeved with you right now. Peace out".
Hawking doesn't care about anything other than promoting himself. His first wife got fed up with constantly having to tell him that he isn't God. His opinion on Israel means nothing.
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Old 19th May 2013, 12:07 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Alt+F4 View Post
Hawking doesn't care about anything other than promoting himself. His first wife got fed up with constantly having to tell him that he isn't God. His opinion on Israel means nothing.
Refreshing to see a post related to the OP, and I had no idea what was behind his divorce. Thanks.
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Old 19th May 2013, 01:34 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Alt+F4 View Post
Hawking is a moron because he doesn't understand what the basic premise of a boycott is about, to hurt an institution financially. Have your stupid science conference anywhere, have it in my back yard (no smoking please). Where this stupid science fest is does not hurt or help Israel in the least.

Hey Hawking, if you want to protest the actions of Israel then why not conduct a hunger strike on the steps of the British Embassy? This is nothing other than a Facebook "like this photo if you love your mother".
A boycott need not cost its target a dime.

Moral pressure is good enough.
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Old 19th May 2013, 01:36 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Alt+F4 View Post
Again, there is no "right" to boycott. Either you do it you don't.

But a super-smart sciencey guy with no background in Middle Eastern politics says that one of those Middle Eastern nations is wrong about something. People, he is super, super smart and he's in a wheelchair! He must be right.
Interesting strawman and red-herring.

Him being in a wheelchair is irrelevent to this discussion.

But it is tasteless for you to bring it up as a way to attack him.
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Old 19th May 2013, 03:45 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Courier View Post
Moral pressure is good enough.
Morality can't be pressed. It is there or it is not. A boycott will never change anyone's morality. Morality comes from within.
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Old 19th May 2013, 03:49 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Alt+F4 View Post
Morality can't be pressed. It is there or it is not. A boycott will never change anyone's morality. Morality comes from within.
If enough nations boycotted Israel they would listen and adjust their policies.

Israelis are stubborn but not stupid.
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Old 19th May 2013, 03:50 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Courier View Post
Him being in a wheelchair is irrelevent to this discussion.
He is totally irrelevant to any serious conversation about Middle Eastern politics.

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But it is tasteless for you to bring it up as a way to attack him.
He has used his disability to make millions. I just post my thoughts on an Internet forum.
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Old 19th May 2013, 03:53 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Alt+F4 View Post
He is totally irrelevant to any serious conversation about Middle Eastern politics.

He has used his disability to make millions. I just post my thoughts on an Internet forum.
Ironic how you accuse others of profiting off of their own suffering.
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Old 19th May 2013, 03:59 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by Courier View Post
If enough nations boycotted Israel they would listen and adjust their policies.
Doubtful. Israel is a small nation that does not have large international trade. If every nation in the world decided to boycott all Israeli products, those nations could find the same products and services somewhere else. Israel's economy is small enough to support itself.
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Old 19th May 2013, 04:00 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by Courier View Post
Ironic how you accuse others of profiting off of their own suffering.
I accused Hawking of profiting from his disability. What do you mean by "others"?
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Old 19th May 2013, 04:02 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by Alt+F4 View Post
He has used his disability to make millions.
He has? Think of the money he could have made if he had AIDS as well. He would have made billions!
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Old 19th May 2013, 05:55 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by Courier View Post
Lenin was more moral than Stalin.

Like it really matters.
Why won't you answer the question?
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Old 19th May 2013, 06:20 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Who is more moral in your opinion, Hamas or Israel?
None of the two
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Old 19th May 2013, 06:21 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Deception is part of the operating principle for every intelligence agency.
If intelligence agency behaves immrally why should we support them?
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Old 19th May 2013, 06:45 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Watanabe View Post
If intelligence agency behaves immrally why should we support them?
Are you pulling my leg, or is this an accurate representation of your ability to comprehend?

Also- who is this "we" white man?
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Old 19th May 2013, 06:47 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by Courier View Post
A boycott need not cost its target a dime.

Moral pressure is good enough.
Can you share an example of where you think moral pressure, without financial pain, was enough?
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Old 20th May 2013, 10:58 AM   #276
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Mod WarningSince we mods didn't get to this soon enough, there will be no yellows handed out for this batch of off-topic posts. However, going forth, please remember that this thread is about Stephan Hawking and his recent boycott of Israel. Refrain from discussing Israel/Palestine, each other, the US or other off-topic things.

And as always, keep it civil; because the topic is also not the other posters.
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Old 20th May 2013, 11:03 AM   #277
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Academic boycott of Israel is a good thing. But a more productive boycott would be one that sees tourists stay away. There are much lovelier & safer nations in the Mediteranean to visit than Israel.

If European and American tourists started going to Greece, Cyprus, Italy, and Croatia instead of Israel, it would have a huge impact on Israel's economy and make them think about their policies.

Last edited by Courier; 20th May 2013 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 20th May 2013, 03:09 PM   #278
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Quote:
Academic boycott of Israel is a good thing.
It would seem mr. Hawking declined for health reasons, making whatever arguments in favour of his absence moot.
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Old 20th May 2013, 05:42 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
It would seem mr. Hawking declined for health reasons, making whatever arguments in favour of his absence moot.
Maybe so, but the idea of boycotting Israel has its merits. It sends a strong message to the govt. and its people that "we don't support what you do and we will do our best to avoid your products & services until you change your behavior".
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Old 20th May 2013, 06:30 PM   #280
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Maybe so, but the idea of boycotting Israel has its merits.
You keep saying so, but given that the topic isn't about Israel or boycotts in general, I'm guessing we're done here.
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