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Tags general discussion , Israel issues , Israel-Palestine conflict , Palestine issues , US-Israel relations

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Old 8th August 2016, 03:36 AM   #561
NWO Sentryman
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So David, what were the Jews supposed to do after 1945, when they still faced antisemitism even after the Holocaust? Trust Europe not to exterminate them again? And if Israel is racist/totalitarian/colonialist, why have they behaved with far more restraint than their Arab Neighbours (I don't recall Israel using nerve gas once or engaging in Genocide), not to mention that Israel has treated Muslim Jerusalem with far more respect than the Saudis treated Mecca/Medina.

As for international law, it was confirmed to be a joke for Israelis when they received far more condemnations in the UN than Saudi Arabia, Assad's Syria, North Korea and Pol Pot's Cambodia put together. I mean, when Pol Pot was wiping out a third of Cambodia's population, Israel got worse treatment for defending itself in Yom Kippur. Meanwhile, Israel today operates with far more restraint than Assad and Putin in Syria, yet gets treated as though it were testing biological weapons on Palestinian Chldren.

So what is your solution that doesn't involve degenerating into a Syrian Civil War 2.0 with nuke DLC?

STM

Last I checked the Nazis weren't in a hair's breath of demolishing the Dome of the Rock or the Al Aqsa mosque.
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Old 8th August 2016, 03:59 AM   #562
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
So David, what were the Jews supposed to do after 1945, when they still faced antisemitism even after the Holocaust? Trust Europe not to exterminate them again?
Were European countries planning to exterminate the Jews after 1945?


Where did you study Modern History?
Or are you just trolling?
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Old 8th August 2016, 04:02 AM   #563
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
Last I checked the Nazis weren't in a hair's breath of demolishing the Dome of the Rock or the Al Aqsa mosque.
Maybe as from our history books the Nazis were in Germany and not in Iraq or Saudi Arabia

Seriously, are you seriously propping up this nonsense or plainly trolling
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Old 8th August 2016, 04:13 AM   #564
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Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
Were European countries planning to exterminate the Jews after 1945?


Where did you study Modern History?
Or are you just trolling?
No, Jews could no longer trust Europeans after an industrial scale extermination attempt, especially since there were antisemitic pogroms in Ukraine, and antisemitism was still a thing in France even after the Holocaust. IOW jews could never trust Europeans again after millennia of persecution culminated in genocide.

Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
Maybe as from our history books the Nazis were in Germany and not in Iraq or Saudi Arabia

Seriously, are you seriously propping up this nonsense or plainly trolling
My point was that Pius was coerced while the Grand Mufti was a willing Nazi ally. Heck Iraq was a nazi ally in World War 2 (I am not making this up).
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Old 8th August 2016, 04:23 AM   #565
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Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
So if not 100% but close to 100% of the countries on Earth are represented and the majority of them vote for the Palestinian state this has to be ignored but the personal opinion of Mr. Ziggurat is what is important
Ego trip anyone?
Not ego trip, just fascist. People in the West are ubermenschen and in the rest of the world live only untermenschen, hence when the rest of the world recognizes Palestine it doesn't count - who cares what untermenschen think - but when the West doesn't recognize Palestine that is fact - there is, after all, no difference between facts and opinions of ubermenschen. Simple as that.
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Old 8th August 2016, 04:30 AM   #566
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
As for international law, it was confirmed to be a joke for Israelis when they received far more condemnations in the UN than Saudi Arabia, Assad's Syria, North Korea and Pol Pot's Cambodia put together.
An achievement to be proud of, certainly. Must be pretty hard to pull off, but leave it to the Zionists to break all expectations.
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Old 8th August 2016, 04:46 AM   #567
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
No, Jews could no longer trust Europeans after an industrial scale extermination attempt, especially since there were antisemitic pogroms in Ukraine, and antisemitism was still a thing in France even after the Holocaust. IOW jews could never trust Europeans again after millennia of persecution culminated in genocide.
This is not what you have said

You said that Palestinians were "hopped up on Nazi Propaganda" and that that Palestinians decided to listen to an SS recruiting sergeant and try to finish what Hitler started."
I would be outmostly pleased to hear evidence that the Palestinians "tried to finish what Hitler started".

Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
My point was that Pius was coerced while the Grand Mufti was a willing Nazi ally. Heck Iraq was a nazi ally in World War 2 (I am not making this up).
Your point is that you have no point.
Provide evidence that the Pope was coerced.
Provide evidence that the Grand Mufti had a plan to exterminate all the Jews.
I am happy to hear

And also let me know what all this has to do with the killings of the IDF on the Palestinians in 2016
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Old 8th August 2016, 05:39 AM   #568
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Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
Wow..
And why the large majority of the countries at the General Assembly did not notice this fact that you noticed?
Whether or not my statement is true is irrelevant to the motives of those voting.

Quote:
You know who are the people who think that only they are right when all or the majority of the world does not see?
No matter how many times you repeat it, argument ad populum will never cease to be a fallacy.

Quote:
Actually a lot of people around the world (in democracies too) would say that the United States acted immorally when they invaded Iraq?
Not relevant to my argument.

Quote:
Lie.
The GA voted the State of Palestine as State
So what? What does that vote accomplish, other than giving them a non-voting seat? Nothing. You cannot point to anything else it accomplishes.

Quote:
This is not the point I was making
Well, DUH. It's the point that *I* was making, and it demonstrates that the point *you* were making is invalid.

Quote:
I was barely saying that your "moral" positions are strikingly similar to Saddams
He also disregarded the UN
He also whitewashed the killing of his side
You conflated fact with opinion before, and now you conflate action with expression. You really don't understand how logical arguments work, do you?
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Old 8th August 2016, 05:56 AM   #569
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Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post

Here
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/US-Jew...enocide-463402

but why do u call them as "kooks"?
Because they say "genocide" without knowing what it means.

You were pretty adamant about not claiming Israel is guilty of genocide, so what do you think of their claim?

Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
I read what I could
I found nowhere written that Israeli people had the right to settle in the West Bank and evict residents
Did you find where it said they didn't?

And are you back to the myth that every Israeli who steps an inch over the Green Line must bump off a Palestinian who was occupying that spot?



Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
I foudn it here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...Resolution_799
nd learning of the deportation of hundreds of Palestinians by Israel in the occupied territories on 17 December 1992, the Council condemned the deportations that were in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention referring to the protection of civilians in times of war.
The deportation of 415 Hamas "activists" after the kidnapping and murder of police officer Nissim Toledano?
Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
You should not put words into other people mouths
What words did I put in your mouth?

Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
Yes I did
I posted here evidence of the CLub of Dictators
I didn't see it in your document. Could you just quote that specific section?


Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
Please show
Your link:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-1...unicef/7415256

"A report by UNICEF said it was concerned with the excessive use of force in incidents where Palestinian children were shot dead by Israeli security forces after allegedly carrying out stabbing attacks."

Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
Do you think they are killed for a valid reason or not
Yes, unless proven otherwise.

Do you think Israelis killed by Palestinians are killed for a valid reason?

Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
Do not think that you agree
But I do.

Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
I think that
I do not think you are honest on this
Explain?

Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
By the way, still waiting for hearing why the UN is a club of dictators
And if people here think the photos of children killed are photoshoped
Are this photos photoshopped too?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tack-on-israel

Please exp;ain
"The incident took place on Saturday hours after militants launched rockets into Israel."

I think that when Hamas launches rockets at Israel, they put Palestinian lives in danger. Do you not agree?
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Old 8th August 2016, 06:30 AM   #570
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Because they say "genocide" without knowing what it means.
This is your opinion
My point is that people claim other groups commit genocide
You did
They did

Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
You were pretty adamant about not claiming Israel is guilty of genocide, so what do you think of their claim?
Irrelevant
My point is that people claim other groups commit genocide
You did
They did
You are not following the discussion

Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Did you find where it said they didn't?

And are you back to the myth that every Israeli who steps an inch over the Green Line must bump off a Palestinian who was occupying that spot?
I have quoted UN resolutions
A few of them
What do you have to prove otherwise
I provided evidence
You provided nothing

Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
The deportation of 415 Hamas "activists" after the kidnapping and murder of police officer Nissim Toledano?
This is your opinion
I am quoting the United Nations, whose opinion is slightly more authoritative than yours
Doh! I forgot you suppose the UN is just a club of dictators

Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
What words did I put in your mouth?
That I ever claim that the West Bank was Palestinian Land
You are not following the discussion
Or playing games
Or both

Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
I didn't see it in your document. Could you just quote that specific section?
I have quoted a few links of the UN
I am not quoting them again
Please follow the discussion

Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Your link:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-1...unicef/7415256

"A report by UNICEF said it was concerned with the excessive use of force in incidents where Palestinian children were shot dead by Israeli security forces after allegedly carrying out stabbing attacks."
You are forgetting the word "alleged"
Why are Palestinians always guilty unless proven otherwise and Israeli innocent even if they commit atrocities in your alla world?


Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Yes, unless proven otherwise.
As I was saying, in your world Palestinians are guilty unless proven innocent


Interesting psychology you have

Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Do you think Israelis killed by Palestinians are killed for a valid reason?
Probably not
It is you who support murder, not me. Remember


Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
But I do.
I think you are very hypocrite on this
Or maybe just trolling

Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Explain?
As I told you
I do not think you care about the lives of the Palestinians
If you did, you would have said that Israeli is very wrong in not accepting the 2002 peace proposal

Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
"The incident took place on Saturday hours after militants launched rockets into Israel."
Je pense..
How comes that when Israeli kill Palestinians after a Palestinian attack this is justified but when Palestinians kills Israeli after a Israeli attack this is not justified?
Hypocrisy at its best

Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
I think that when Hamas launches rockets at Israel, they put Palestinian lives in danger. Do you not agree?
Maybe yes maybe not
But you see the world one way

Your

And you still have to elighten the audience on why you think the UN is a club of dictators

Last edited by SashatheMagnificent; 8th August 2016 at 06:31 AM.
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Old 8th August 2016, 06:47 AM   #571
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Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
I am quoting the United Nations, whose opinion is slightly more authoritative than yours
Huh. A Russian who's really into authority. Never seen that before.
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Old 8th August 2016, 06:49 AM   #572
SashatheMagnificent
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Whether or not my statement is true is irrelevant to the motives of those voting.
I know your opinion well.
Interesting opinion indeed

The vote of the major part of the countries of the planet is irrelevant as it does not get aligned with your opinion

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No matter how many times you repeat it, argument ad populum will never cease to be a fallacy.
Actually, it was an official vote at the UN
Not really an "argument as populum"

Oh, I forgot, the countries of this planet appears to differ from your opinion so it is a fallacy

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post

Not relevant to my argument.
How come that you can disqualify the whole United Nations as some troops in CAR acted immorally but when I tell you that the United States also behaved immorally this is "not relevant"
Your biasedness is beyond ridiculous

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
So what? What does that vote accomplish, other than giving them a non-voting seat? Nothing. You cannot point to anything else it accomplishes.
They are a State at the UN
So your comment "And that's far short of making Palestine an actual state." is a lie
Palestine is a State at the United Nations
Whether in your mental world Palestine it is not a State, I do not know, on Planet Earth and at the United Nations Palestine is a State

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Well, DUH. It's the point that *I* was making, and it demonstrates that the point *you* were making is invalid.
You replied to my comment that your positions rememered me the positions of the late Saddam Hussein, so it was actually my point
At it is not that my point is invalid or not, it is just that you (wrongly IMHO) made a critique to what I was saying
Which, in your world, is a definite proof that I was wrong as, as we have seen, anybody in this world who does not follow your opinions must necessarily be wrong
Be it the United Nations, me, or anyone else

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You conflated fact with opinion before, and now you conflate action with expression. You really don't understand how logical arguments work, do you?
What is there to explain when I tell you that you remember me of Saddam` s opinions?

And finally, will you reply to me on whether you still consider the UN a club of dictators and why
I am asking you about this but I can not get an answer
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Old 8th August 2016, 06:50 AM   #573
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Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
Were European countries planning to exterminate the Jews after 1945?


Where did you study Modern History?
Or are you just trolling?
After taking a look at your recent posts, I worked my way back to this one. I see you have difficulty drawing reasonable inferences. Think of it this way: a culture that was at the time certainly one of the most modern and civilized - Germany - descended into its polar and extremely irrational opposite, indicating clearly that the status quo can change, even under democracy, even in enlightened societies, into something hideous given the right conditions.

Today, in similar fashion and with - for now - different targets in mind, you have Trump demonstrating clearly that a democracy can indeed become infatuated with a strongman. The rise of Le Pen and similar is equally worrisome.

Clearly, with this ever-present risk, a debate has been ongoing in the Jewish community since WWII with respect to making aliyah, or with the opposite, spreading out as much as possible so as not to make a single target. Neither option is safe or satisfactory.

So, literally, no, there were no Western European nation-states with an official anti-Semitic policy immediately following the war. However, given the track records of the main victors, the UK and France, only a complete fool would trust those societies after the behavior of their governments and populations prior to and during the war.
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Old 8th August 2016, 06:51 AM   #574
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Huh. A Russian who's really into authority. Never seen that before.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...9504af36e7.jpg
Personal attack.. yawn.. and not even well done
Is this all you can say
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Old 8th August 2016, 06:57 AM   #575
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
However, given the track records of the main victors, the UK and France, only a complete fool would trust those societies after the behavior of their governments and populations prior to and during the war.
Actually, I think the UK was among the countries that fought against the Nazis in WWII and saved the Jews from the Holocaust (well, not all of them but..)
I did not know that you considered the UK society as a society inherently anti-semite

But I get surprised every hour here..
People think that the United Nations is a club of dictators
Other people think that there was a (hidden?) anti semite policy and a risk for Jews to be exterminated after the Nazis were defeated.
Other people think that Palestine is not a State
http://www.un.org/press/en/2015/ga11676.doc.htm

Is the fact that Palestine is not a State but its flag is at the UN part of the post-1945 European conspiracy to kill all the Jews ?

Very interesting indeed

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Old 8th August 2016, 07:22 AM   #576
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Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
Actually, it was an official vote at the UN
Not really an "argument as populum"
Do you even understand what "argument ad populum" means?

Quote:
How come that you can disqualify the whole United Nations as some troops in CAR acted immorally but when I tell you that the United States also behaved immorally this is "not relevant"
Because it's not relevant to this question. Nothing about my argument here depends upon the moral standing of the United States. If we are discussing some other subject where the moral standing of the United States matters, then your accusation may be relevant, but for now, it's simply off topic. The moral standing of the UN would be irrelevant too if you hadn't tried to make it part of your argument. But you did.

Quote:
They are a State at the UN
So your comment "And that's far short of making Palestine an actual state." is a lie
If the UN says that the moon is made of cheese, will that make it so?

Quote:
And finally, will you reply to me on whether you still consider the UN a club of dictators and why
Because there are a lot of dictatorships within the organization, and they frequently band together to protect the interests of dictatorships against democracies.
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Old 8th August 2016, 07:25 AM   #577
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Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
Actually, I think the UK was among the countries that fought against the Nazis in WWII and saved the Jews from the Holocaust (well, not all of them but..)
I did not know that you considered the UK society as a society inherently anti-semite
Are you under the impression that saving the Jews from the Nazis was a significant factor in the UK's decision to go to war against Nazi Germany?

Because it wasn't. The UK was largely indifferent to the plight of the Jews.
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Old 8th August 2016, 07:32 AM   #578
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Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
Actually, I think the UK was among the countries that fought against the Nazis in WWII and saved the Jews from the Holocaust (well, not all of them but..)
As far as I know most of the camps were liberated, ironically enough for Zig, by the USSR.
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Old 8th August 2016, 07:36 AM   #579
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
As far as I know most of the camps were liberated, ironically enough for Zig, by the USSR.
Why would you think that's ironic?
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Old 8th August 2016, 07:37 AM   #580
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Why would you think that's ironic?
fdsll sdmkjsqd jflsqd sfd shfmds
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Old 8th August 2016, 07:50 AM   #581
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
fdsll sdmkjsqd jflsqd sfd shfmds
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All You Need Is Love.
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Old 8th August 2016, 07:59 AM   #582
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
End the brainwashing!

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Communication is real. Language isn't.
{...}
It's just a collective delusion. We all agree that these things called "words" exist, but they don't. It's all just pretend pink unicorns.
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Language isn't real either. Same with math. It's all just collective delusions. Nothing that isn't physically tangible is real. We must end the brainwashing that leads people into belief in anything abstract.
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Old 8th August 2016, 07:59 AM   #583
theprestige
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Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
Please tell us what the Obama regime contributes to the moral authority of the UN General Assembly.
That's an easy one: The Obama regime contributes nothing to the moral authority of the UN.

But I'm not the one that says the UN has any moral authority to begin with. You tell me what the Obama regime--or any regime--contributes to the moral authority you say the UN has.

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I do not know whether your comments are more racist or stupid.
Probably both.
Oh? Racist how?
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Old 8th August 2016, 08:02 AM   #584
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
fdsll sdmkjsqd jflsqd sfd shfmds
Ten points for Gryffindor.
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Old 8th August 2016, 08:05 AM   #585
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
As far as I know most of the camps were liberated, ironically enough for Zig, by the USSR.
The fact that the USSR was in a position to get there first turned out to be ironic for all of Eastern Europe, actually.
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Old 8th August 2016, 08:13 AM   #586
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Originally Posted by David Mo View Post
It is obvious that Israelis are unable to belief in a truly democratic country.
Sure, David, sure. Israel, which has Muslim members of parliament, knows nothing of democracy. Tell me: how many Jews are there in the Palestinian Authority? What happens if you're openly gay in Gaza or the West Bank?

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Don't blame only Palestinians for violence. The State of Israel was founded and is maintained by violence.
Many states have been founded by violence. And any state which is attacked and defends itself is maintaining itself with violence as well. So what's special about Israel?

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If the foundation of the State was violent, their executors and sponsors were and are today the responsible of the subsequent escalation of violence.
How do you imagine that the Palestinian Authority was founded?
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Old 8th August 2016, 08:43 AM   #587
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Sure, David, sure. Israel, which has Muslim members of parliament, knows nothing of democracy. Tell me: how many Jews are there in the Palestinian Authority?
I am glad you agree with me. The State of Israel is not democratic.

NOTE: Only the presence of some muslims in the Knesset doesn't means a democratic system. Do you know about non communist parties in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik?

Yes, There are about 500.000 Israelis in West Bank and Jerusalem: settlers.

Did I said that there is a democratic system in the Occupied Territories? I don't remember.

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Old 8th August 2016, 08:52 AM   #588
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The fact that the USSR was in a position to get there first turned out to be ironic tragic for all of Eastern Europe, actually.
FTFY.
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Old 8th August 2016, 08:58 AM   #589
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Originally Posted by David Mo View Post
NOTE: Only the presence of some muslims in the Knesset doesn't means a democratic system.
True. The way the Knesset works is what makes Israel a democracy. The presence of Muslims in the Knesset is a result of that, not a cause.

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Do you know about non communist parties in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik?
How is East Germany's one-party communist rule relevant to a multi-party democratic state.

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Yes, There are about 500.000 Israelis in West Bank and Jerusalem: settlers.
In the West Bank. But not in the Palestinian Authority (ie, the "government").

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Have I said there is a democratic system in the Occupied Territories? I don't remember.
I don't recall you having done so. But you clearly tried to lay the blame for the impossibility of a stable democratic one-state solution at the feet of Israel, and the absence of any effective democratic Palestinian self-government is directly relevant to that.
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Old 8th August 2016, 08:59 AM   #590
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Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
It may just be that - in the light of present circumstance, fixating on what Israel can do is the only real alternative left.
I think they can be subject to public pressure, just as Israel is.

Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
This just in today:

David Keyes
Yesterday at 08:03 Politics
"Palestinian President Abbas' party recently posted on Facebook that its number one accomplishment is having murdered 11,000 Israelis. What kind of peace seeking, moderate organization boasts of mass murder? Why does President Abbas erect statues of arch terrorists like Abu Sukar who killed 15 civilians with a refrigerator bomb on a crowded Israeli street? Why doesn't President Abbas fire his advisor Sultan Abu Al Einein who recently called on Palestinians to slit the throat of every Israeli? President Abbas is encouraging Palestinian children to grow up and yearn for death over life. Imagine how much closer we might be to peace if Palestinian leaders bragged about how much they had done to bring Israelis and Palestinians together. Imagine if they named streets after champions of coexistence. Words matter. Those who praise mass murder, encourage mass murder. Spread this message if you want to see more boasting about peace and less about murder."
If Keyes is correct that is indeed discouraging.

Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
The 'other half' does not appear to want any resolution short of the extermination of the state of Israel and Israelis.
And repeatedly pointing that out in public forums is exactly the kind of public pressure that might bring about change.

Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
How would 'the kids' of the Palestinian half respond to this problem based on their more enlightened education in friendship with their Israeli brethren?

Has anyone asked them?
I've been able to talk with a number of Palestinian teenagers online. One kid said he was the son of an important Hamas official. He was all "death to the Jews" and "I only feel comfortable with a rock in my hand". That was one guy. A couple of others told me they didn't buy into all the propaganda and they didn't think Israel was so terrible and wanted peace.

So... Small sample size, so make of it what you will, but I think (hope) that with ever greater access to the Internet and exposure to different points of view that those moderate opinions will become more common and make peace possible.


Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
This appears to be the case at present. How then to speak more directly to the actual Palestinian people (the actual have nots) and what is the best way for the haves to focus their support directly to the people?
I've often thought that an Israeli media campaign aimed directly at the Palestinian people could be effective, but Netanyahu isn't the one to do it.

Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
And why was that? What was Israel doing in relation to Her giving which might have upset the Palestinian ruling class?
They offered an end to the conflict at Camp David 2000 is what they did.

Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
Also, why abandon a perfectly workable idea just because it was made to fail? The idea itself isn't one which should fail of its own accord. It does not have to be discarded altogether...
Maybe.


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Old 8th August 2016, 09:18 AM   #591
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Originally Posted by David Mo View Post
The UN partition was a spoil of the half of the Palestinian house to give it for a stranger without permission of the inhabitants. What would be your response if someone takes half of your house to give it to other?

It cannot exist "understanding" under an occupation. This is sheer... what is the word in English? Effrontery, Cynism...? Sorry, my English is not very good.
Except there was never any "Palestinian house" to give away, which makes it a terrible metaphor.

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Old 8th August 2016, 09:25 AM   #592
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Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
So when Christians do it is as they have their hands tied when Muslims do it it is as they go out their way
What the Pope did really doesn't change what the Mufti did.


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Old 8th August 2016, 09:28 AM   #593
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Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
Were European countries planning to exterminate the Jews after 1945?


Where did you study Modern History?
Or are you just trolling?
He doesn't claim that. He does claim correctly that the Holocaust did not cure Europe of it's anti-Semitism.

Would you want to return to a "home" with neighbors who participated in the killing of your family?

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Old 8th August 2016, 10:15 AM   #594
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
He doesn't claim that. He does claim correctly that the Holocaust did not cure Europe of it's anti-Semitism.
Europe will never forgive the Jews for Auschwitz.
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:58 AM   #595
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Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post

How come that you can disqualify the whole United Nations as some troops in CAR acted immorally but when I tell you that the United States also behaved immorally this is "not relevant"
Your biasedness is beyond ridiculous
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism



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Old 8th August 2016, 11:28 AM   #596
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Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
Actually, I think the UK was among the countries that fought against the Nazis in WWII and saved the Jews from the Holocaust (well, not all of them but..)
I did not know that you considered the UK society as a society inherently anti-semite
You say that as though WWII was fought over anti-Semitism.

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Old 8th August 2016, 11:30 AM   #597
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
As far as I know most of the camps were liberated, ironically enough for Zig, by the USSR.
From this I conclude you don't understand what "irony" means.

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Old 8th August 2016, 11:37 AM   #598
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Europe will never forgive the Jews for Auschwitz.
It really seems that way, doesn't it?

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Old 8th August 2016, 11:59 AM   #599
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Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
Actually, I think the UK was among the countries that fought against the Nazis in WWII and saved the Jews from the Holocaust (well, not all of them but..)
I did not know that you considered the UK society as a society inherently anti-semite...
I suggest you look at Jewish refugees on boats, things like that. You might also read articles by contemporary Jews living in Europe.

Saving Europe from the Nazis was a tremendous accomplishment. However, it left the Anglo world in the unfortunate position of not understanding its own role in an imperfect world. You will find some of the strongest and most overt statements of racism in the US, UK, and Oceania as anywhere else on the planet. It also came with the average graft after the war that is common to all human endeavors. Apparently, the good guys need a change of heart, too.

Don't tell me you cannot imagine a derivation of Trumpism plus white nationalism that turns on the Jews? What happened in Germany happened to a country that had been quite a lot more civilized comparative to its contemporaries than the US is today. (In one of his latest speeches, Trump almost sounds like he wants to extort allies to pay for protection in the same manner one would expect from a racketeer. A bully. Thug, and budding brown shirt.)

The world is an ever-dangerous place, never safe for the Jewish people. Maybe you are fine with that, but I side, conditionally but firmly, with those who were clearly wronged and are in danger without a land of their own; say, where they originated.
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Old 8th August 2016, 12:34 PM   #600
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Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
In return the Arab states will do the following: (a) Consider the Arab–Israeli conflict over, sign a peace agreement with Israel, and achieve peace for all states in the region; (b) Establish normal relations with Israel within the framework of this comprehensive peace.[16]

What else does Israel want
The demands of that Peace Proposal were already outdated and essentially outline the problem Arabs have with the existence of Israel as a State.

Let us look at the 2000 Camp David Summit where the focus for Yasser Arafat was in the "Right of Return" of the approximately 711,000 to 725,000 Palestinian Arabs who fled or were expelled from their homes ... Today, they and their descendants number about four million...

Now let us take this 'right of return' and apply it to the Jews, who, for hundreds of years had been kept from returning to their homeland from which they had initially been forced from by the Romans and scattered into the world in general.

Eventually even Rome had no more use for that so named 'Holy Land' and left it and the Arabs in general had free reign and chance to settle in and get about doing whatever it is they did. No doubt there has always been some kind of scuffle in said land..

Then another type of Roman Empire attempted twice to bring the world to its knees and failed on both occasions, but not without first exerting the terrible swift sword to full and fearsome toll.

Indeed, many Roman-Like empires together helped crush that one...such was the extent of the influence of Roman Warfare Tactics on all such civilizations...

Anyway, one such influenced civilization was involved in finally procuring Jews the "Right of Return" and this did not bode well with the Arabs one little bit and they conspired with the Nazis Romans to eradicate said Jews while said Jews were still in Europe...

But - try as they did, the Nazi failed and said Jew survived that onslaught and were given the right of return by British Romans...indeed that right was already given even before the Nazi Regime...the IIWW Just put a puase on the operation...

How did the Arabs respond? Did they recognize 'Right of Return' and welcome their Jewish brethren with open arms?

No.

Of course not.

They showed their contempt and their hatred and altogether waged warfare upon the returned Children of Israel - and those children responded with the battle cry 'Never Again' - spurred on by the very recent horrific events perpetrated by the Nazi Roman and managed to deliver their murderous Arab enemies decisive blows in which that enemy was rendered defeated on every front and on the seventh day the Jew rested, having earned the reward of their victory in terms of geological territory.

That same territory the Arab Peace Proposal demands Israel gives back to them, along with the 'right of return'.

Not only are these Arabs sore losers, but are plainly not interested in the truth of the fact that they ********** up and that they[their hatred] are the ones who are responsible for the plight of their own making.

Nor do they appear to see or want to see that the Neighbor they do have is very long suffering and does not seek their annihilation (as they seem to believe or tell themselves/each other/anyone who will listen)

Israel sincerely wants Peace, but the Arab does not want Israel.

Such as is the case, it is not likely to end very well unless the Arab can somehow find a way in which to let go of whatever the hell it is that the Arab holds against the Jew that seems to reside in the very depths of the most ancient past.

Meanwhile, Israel persists with its agenda to make that Land the best Land in the whole world.

And Roman America is number one ally in supporting them achieving this objective.
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