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Tags general discussion , Israel issues , Israel-Palestine conflict , Palestine issues , US-Israel relations

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Old 5th January 2017, 06:58 AM   #1401
Mycroft
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Israeli soldier convicted in shooting:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/is...arazia-n702961
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Old 18th April 2017, 11:36 AM   #1402
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Things get even worse in Gaza.

http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/world...fuel/453343592
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Old 18th April 2017, 12:07 PM   #1403
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Wow. I'm absolutely stunned:

"The Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza blame each other for the energy shortage."

For once, they aren't blaming the Jews.
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Old 18th April 2017, 02:07 PM   #1404
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Wow. I'm absolutely stunned:

"The Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza blame each other for the energy shortage."

For once, they aren't blaming the Jews.
No, but the UN is (from the article):
----------------------------------
"Robert Piper, the UN deputy special coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process...
...
Gaza also has to contend with an Israeli land and sea blockade and restrictions on movements of goods and people, which Piper said is the primary cause of Gaza's problems, making a viable economy in Gaza impossible. The border with Egypt is also closed most of the time, opening only rarely for short periods."
------------------------------------

Amazing. How does the UN recruit these people? Do they have recruitment ads in anti-semitic newspapers?

'Today a UN special coordinator said that the Sixth Army has to contend with a Soviet blockade and restrictions on movements of goods and people, which [he] said is the primary cause of Sixth Army's problems, making a viable encampment in Stalingrad impossible.'

TLDR - proximate and primary causes are different things.
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Old 19th April 2017, 10:51 AM   #1405
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Wow. I'm absolutely stunned:

"The Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza blame each other for the energy shortage."

For once, they aren't blaming the Jews.
A brief slip, which will be corrected shortly.
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Old 1st May 2017, 02:39 PM   #1406
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Quote:
The Palestinian Islamist group Hamas on Monday dropped its longstanding call for Israel's destruction, but said it still rejected the country's right to exist and backs "armed struggle" against it.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pa...-idUSKBN17X1N8

Following the old tradition of making progress without making any progress.
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Old 1st May 2017, 09:17 PM   #1407
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pa...-idUSKBN17X1N8

Following the old tradition of making progress without making any progress.
Also of some note is...

Quote:
Fatah spokesman Osama al-Qawasme upbraided Hamas for taking decades to join Fatah in accepting a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders, a position Hamas used to criticize Fatah for.

"Hamas's new document is identical to that taken by Fatah in 1988. Hamas is required to make an apology to Fatah after 30 years of accusing us of treason for that policy," Qawasme said.
That's... very possibly a very good sign, in that more common ground between Hamas and Fatah may help pave the way for a more cooperative and less antagonistic relationship between the leadership in Gaza and in the West Bank, which then could lead to a dramatic improvement of Gaza's situation. Could, at least. It's a little too soon to be greatly optimistic, but there's faint rays of hope that can be seen.
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Old 10th January 2018, 12:00 PM   #1408
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So our favorite settler colony has been engaged in creating a new heroine for the Palestinians by throwing in jail a sixteen year old girl with wild hair who looks more like from Ireland than what the laymen expect from Palestine, for "slapping" a soldier after his gang shot her brother in the face with a rubber bullet. Someone not easy to demonize, but they tried anyway by describing her family as notorious "trouble-makers" and her as a brainwashed offspring of that evil.

As it happens, when Abby Martin was there in late 2016, she interviewed the girl and her family. Now the footage was released, of course not without using the opportunity to help create that heroine by going into the context in detail:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 10th January 2018, 03:19 PM   #1409
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So for the sake of honesty, let’s not use the word “Palestinian” any more to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our deaths until someone points out they’re being taped. Instead, let’s call them what they are: “Other Arabs From The Same General Area Who Are In Deep Denial About Never Being Able To Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death.” I know that’s a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN. How about this, then: “Adjacent Jew-Haters.
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:11 PM   #1410
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
So for the sake of honesty, let’s not use the word “Palestinian” any more to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our deaths until someone points out they’re being taped. Instead, let’s call them what they are: “Other Arabs From The Same General Area Who Are In Deep Denial About Never Being Able To Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death.” I know that’s a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN. How about this, then: “Adjacent Jew-Haters.
Perhaps stick to scientific definitions; they tend to spontaneously combust when in the presence of semites so they must be anti-semites.
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Old 15th January 2018, 06:06 PM   #1411
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
So our favorite settler colony has been engaged in creating a new heroine for the Palestinians by throwing in jail a sixteen year old girl with wild hair who looks more like from Ireland than what the laymen expect from Palestine, for "slapping" a soldier after his gang shot her brother in the face with a rubber bullet. Someone not easy to demonize, but they tried anyway by describing her family as notorious "trouble-makers" and her as a brainwashed offspring of that evil.
You're claiming she's not easy to demonize because she looks like she could come from Ireland?

What a fundamentally racist point of view.
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Old 15th January 2018, 06:34 PM   #1412
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
You're claiming she's not easy to demonize because she looks like she could come from Ireland?

What a fundamentally racist point of view.



So helpless.
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Old 15th January 2018, 06:58 PM   #1413
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post


So helpless.
It's your claim. Nobody else made an issue of her appearance but you.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
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Old 20th January 2018, 09:36 AM   #1414
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Quote:
Gaza family kills member who allegedly acted as Israeli informant

A family in Gaza has killed one of its own members for allegedly passing on information to Israel that led to the deaths of three Hamas militants, Palestinian sources said.

...

“We carried out the punishment against our son Ahmad Said Barhoum after having been assured without a shadow of a doubt that he was implicated in the assassination [of the militants]”, the family said in a statement.
Wow.

So Hamas has the family kill one of their own. I can only guess they didn't do it themselves so the family could prove it's loyalty?

I really dislike having Trump as POTUS, but one good thing I can say for him is at least he's not trying to maintain the status-quo in this conflict because the status-quo is really awful. His decisions may be the random firing of a loose cannon, but even that is better than seeing another generation pass with no progress.
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Old 27th March 2019, 10:08 PM   #1415
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This is a little bit of a necro, by now, but... More bombing in response to rockets.

Quote:
Netanyahu had been scheduled to give a speech in Washington to the AIPAC pro-Israel lobbying group. Instead, he addressed the group by satellite, telling them that over the past 24 hours Israel had pounded militant sites in Gaza on a scale not seen since a 2014 war with Hamas.

“I can tell you, we are prepared to do a lot more,” he said. “We will do what is necessary to defend our people and to defend our state.”

Tuesday night’s airstrikes came in response to a lone rocket attack. The military said it hit a Hamas military compound and a weapons manufacturing warehouse in southern Gaza. Militants responded by firing another rocket. Israel said both projectiles landed harmlessly in open areas.
This sure seems like a political ploy by Netanyahu for the election coming up. May he lose badly to centrists.
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Old 28th March 2019, 09:15 AM   #1416
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
This is a little bit of a necro, by now, but... More bombing in response to rockets.



This sure seems like a political ploy by Netanyahu for the election coming up. May he lose badly to centrists.
I guess a few indictments for corruption are meaningless too.
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Old 28th March 2019, 01:22 PM   #1417
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
May he lose badly to centrists.

Amen, but it kind of looks like that if he loses, he'll lose to even more genocidal freaks.
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Old 29th March 2019, 10:30 AM   #1418
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IMHO shooting a rocket at Israel is like a midget kicking a giant in the shins.
The tragedy of the Palstinian people is they have never had halfway decent leadership.
I have to wonder if HAMAS does not want Bibi to be elected;the damage he is doing to Israel certainly works in their favor.
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Old 30th March 2019, 02:31 PM   #1419
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I have to wonder if HAMAS does not want Bibi to be elected;the damage he is doing to Israel certainly works in their favor.
No question.
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Old 30th March 2019, 04:07 PM   #1420
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Here's a Guardian article about some of the 2018 UN statistics for the state of things in Gaza.

194 killed, 28666 wounded during protests. Almost all tap water unsafe to drink. 6.6 hours of electricity a day on average. Unemployment rose to above 50%. Medical supplies are extremely limited.
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Old 30th March 2019, 05:42 PM   #1421
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Sounds like the whole "protest"/attempted invasion thing was a catastrophic failure for the Palestinians. I wonder when they'll learn?
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Old 1st April 2019, 01:54 AM   #1422
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The problem as I see it is that neither Israel or the Arabs want a two state solution, which has then resulted in endless war and misery. Personally, I think Netanyahu must go.
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Old 1st April 2019, 02:29 AM   #1423
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Hmmm... the Golan Heights.

OK then folks... who is the legitimate owner of the Golan Heights ?

(caution.. it IS a bit of a trick question).
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Old 1st April 2019, 07:13 AM   #1424
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Here's a Guardian article about some of the 2018 UN statistics for the state of things in Gaza.

194 killed, 28666 wounded during protests. Almost all tap water unsafe to drink. 6.6 hours of electricity a day on average. Unemployment rose to above 50%. Medical supplies are extremely limited.
All showing the progress Israel is making. Those are numbers to be celebrated by all americans.
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Old 1st April 2019, 07:16 AM   #1425
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
The problem as I see it is that neither Israel or the Arabs want a two state solution, which has then resulted in endless war and misery. Personally, I think Netanyahu must go.
Look a two state solution died years ago, there are simply too many settlements to have that happen. Israel will never forcibly relocate 10% of their population who are not some kind of serious ethnic or political minority, that just does not happen. But of course one state solutions are right out too. Because either they formalize apartheid and block palestinians from voting thus giving up any pretense at being a liberal western democracy or they give up being a jewish state. So really crushing them slowly and choking them out is the only solution the Israelis have.
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Old 1st April 2019, 07:27 PM   #1426
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
All showing the progress Israel is making. Those are numbers to be celebrated by all americans.
Celebrated by anti-Israeli Americans, yes. But that's not all Americans.

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Look a two state solution died years ago, there are simply too many settlements to have that happen. Israel will never forcibly relocate 10% of their population who are not some kind of serious ethnic or political minority, that just does not happen. But of course one state solutions are right out too. Because either they formalize apartheid and block palestinians from voting thus giving up any pretense at being a liberal western democracy or they give up being a jewish state. So really crushing them slowly and choking them out is the only solution the Israelis have.
Simply give settlement residents the choice of relocating, or apply for Palestinian citizenship. Two state solution reborn.
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Old 1st April 2019, 07:31 PM   #1427
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
The problem as I see it is that neither Israel or the Arabs want a two state solution, which has then resulted in endless war and misery. Personally, I think Netanyahu must go.
Netanyahu is the greatest gift Israel ever gave to folk like you. Removing him and his absurd cronies is the last thing you're looking for.
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Old 1st April 2019, 07:44 PM   #1428
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Excellent very intelligent debate on CSPAN today, well worth watching and you can see it online. And if you don't have the time, you can read the transcript.

Soho Forum Debate on Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
Quote:
The Soho Forum hosted a debate about the Israeli - Palestinian conflict and whether the Palestinian movement has a right to exist. Israeli author Elan Journo, the Ayn Rand Institute’s research director, debated U.S. Army Strategist Major Danny Sjursen at the Subculture Theater in New York City.
Definitely fair and balanced, both debaters were atheist and Libertarian.

My only disappointment, they didn't address the access to fresh water Israel is motivated to base land and settlement decisions on. It's not just about 'security'.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 02:57 AM   #1429
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Celebrated by anti-Israeli Americans, yes. But that's not all Americans.
Why anti Israeli americans? It is a victory for Israel after all and as such it should be celebrated. They are driving them out from the land god gave the jews after all.

Quote:
Simply give settlement residents the choice of relocating, or apply for Palestinian citizenship. Two state solution reborn.
Yea that is a non starter for the Israeli voters. Try to think of something that could actually be accepted by Israel.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 04:12 AM   #1430
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Celebrated by anti-Israeli Americans, yes. But that's not all Americans.


Simply give settlement residents the choice of relocating, or apply for Palestinian citizenship. Two state solution reborn.
Well, Mahmoud Abbas, the head of the PLO, has recently stated that under any agreement with Israel, not one jew would remain in "Palestine".

So sadly it would appear that Jews would not be ALLOWED to become Palestinian citizens.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 09:34 AM   #1431
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Why anti Israeli americans?
Because it brings their goal of wiping Israel from the pages of time that much closer. Crocodile tears notwithstanding.

Quote:
Yea that is a non starter for the Israeli voters. Try to think of something that could actually be accepted by Israel.
The Israeli voters could easily accept such a plan. But, of course, anti-Israelis never could, since Israel and Zionism would continue to exist.

Originally Posted by Roofgardener View Post
Well, Mahmoud Abbas, the head of the PLO, has recently stated that under any agreement with Israel, not one jew would remain in "Palestine".

So sadly it would appear that Jews would not be ALLOWED to become Palestinian citizens.
The settlers might have to convert to Islam. Sacrifices must be made.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 11:27 AM   #1432
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Because it brings their goal of wiping Israel from the pages of time that much closer. Crocodile tears notwithstanding.
Yep because no one actually cares about palestinians getting water and a chance at a life it is all about israel.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 11:38 AM   #1433
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yep because no one actually cares about palestinians getting water and a chance at a life it is all about israel.
Many people do care about Palestinians getting water and a chance at a life. However, anti-Israelis generally care about their agenda, which is eliminating Zionism and Israel. Their "concern" with Palestinian suffering (outside of its utility in advancing their agenda) is pretension.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 12:07 PM   #1434
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Many people do care about Palestinians getting water and a chance at a life. However, anti-Israelis generally care about their agenda, which is eliminating Zionism and Israel. Their "concern" with Palestinian suffering (outside of its utility in advancing their agenda) is pretension.
Well there you go, kill any possible solution before it has a chance by projecting antisemitism onto anyone who says the Palestinians are suffering. That's sounds about right.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 01:10 PM   #1435
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yep because no one actually cares about palestinians getting water and a chance at a life it is all about israel.
Nice dodge of the question.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 01:15 PM   #1436
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Well there you go, kill any possible solution before it has a chance by projecting antisemitism onto anyone who says the Palestinians are suffering. That's sounds about right.
Nonsense. What the poster you are replying to was saying that some people whose ultimate goal is the elimination of Israel are exploting the Suffering of the Palstinians to achieve their ends, Big Difference.
For once, at least try to take off the ideological blinders.

Once again, I continue to ask the Anti Zionist crowd what is going to happen to the Six Million Jews living in Israel if the "Zionist Entity" is eliminated. I have never gotten a good straight answer.

I wish I could see things from a pure black and white viewpoint that a great many people on both sides of this issue see things from. It would make it so much easier.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 01:20 PM   #1437
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Nice dodge of the question.
What dodge to the question, the basic stance is that no one really cares about the palestinians and anyone who claims to do so is only really only motivated by antisemitism. That isn't a question it is a ad hominem.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 01:21 PM   #1438
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Nonsense. What the poster you are replying to was saying that some people whose ultimate goal is the elimination of Israel are exploting the Suffering of the Palstinians to achieve their ends, Big Difference.
For once, at least try to take off the ideological blinders.

Once again, I continue to ask the Anti Zionist crowd what is going to happen to the Six Million Jews living in Israel if the "Zionist Entity" is eliminated. I have never gotten a good straight answer.

I wish I could see things from a pure black and white viewpoint that a great many people on both sides of this issue see things from. It would make it so much easier.
And of course that isn't what the people are even saying. Casting accusations of antisemitism does nicely obscure the issues and prevent any criticism of Israel though as you intend.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 01:46 PM   #1439
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Well, the "Apartheid Entity" is long gone and last time I've checked, South Africa and its citizens are still there.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 05:28 PM   #1440
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Well there you go, kill any possible solution before it has a chance by projecting antisemitism onto anyone who says the Palestinians are suffering. That's sounds about right.
Well there you go, attacking comments you wish I had made, instead of the ones I actually did. That sounds about right.
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