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Tags general discussion , Israel issues , Israel-Palestine conflict , Palestine issues , US-Israel relations

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Old 4th July 2019, 05:27 AM   #1721
webfusion
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
My understanding is that the Palestinian Authority was invited, but refused to attend.
According to Saeb Erekat, the Palestinians did not get 'consulted' about the workshop.
https://www.france24.com/en/20190520...ain-conference

In any case, the billions of $$$ to assist Palestinians were discussed in the context of an overall "peace deal" and there is no chance of movement towards any such deal in the remainder of this year.

And the Palestinians are INCREASING their payments to terrorists.
https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...-report-594600
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Old 5th July 2019, 01:28 AM   #1722
Cosmic Yak
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
According to Saeb Erekat, the Palestinians did not get 'consulted' about the workshop.
https://www.france24.com/en/20190520...ain-conference
This may not be entirely true, or his remarks have been misquoted:
The PLO issued a formal statement rejecting their invitation to the conference:
Quote:
The Palestinian Authority on Wednesday formally rejected an invitation to a US-led peace conference in Bahrain next month, where Washington is expected to unveil the economic aspects of its long-awaited Middle East peace plan.

The meeting is planned for June 25-26 in the capital city of Manama. The PA had previously indicated that it would not participate in the event, but had not officially refused.
This announcement came 3 days after Erekat's statement. Makes me wonder what changed between those two statements.
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Old 20th August 2019, 12:55 PM   #1723
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Bigfoot seen in Gaza.
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/N...ws.aspx/267640
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Old 2nd March 2020, 08:44 AM   #1724
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Massachusetts senator, presidential candidate and former professor at Harvard Law School Elizabeth Warren seems to have a good plan for peace.

She was asked:
Quote:
What are your concrete plans to address the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians?
She replied:
Quote:
... I believe that the way we respect all parties is through a two-state solution — an outcome that’s good for US interests, good for Israel’s security and its future, and good for Palestinian rights, dignity and self-determination. To achieve this, there must be an end to the Israeli occupation and the creation of an independent and sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip living alongside Israel.
...
Unfortunately, the Trump administration’s approach has made a two-state solution harder to achieve. His one-sided “peace plan” is a rubber stamp for annexation and offers no chance for a real Palestinian state. As president, I’ll take immediate steps to fix the damage and reestablish America’s role as a credible mediator.

I will welcome the Palestinian General Delegation back to Washington, because we cannot advance peace when we have closed our channels of communication. I will resume aid to the Palestinians that the Trump administration has cut off, and place greater emphasis on relieving the humanitarian catastrophe in the Gaza Strip, because we cannot sustain peace without a future that brings greater freedom, prosperity and security to the Palestinian people. I will reopen the US mission in Jerusalem to the Palestinians and make clear that in a two-state agreement both parties should be able to have their capitals in Jerusalem.

Today, the continued expansion of Israeli settlements and the increasing normalization of proposals for Israel to annex parts or all of the West Bank are the most immediate dangers to the two-state solution. These are policies that have been aggressively pursued by Benjamin Netanyahu and his allies, but also by successive Israeli governments for years. I oppose unilateral annexation in any form — and I will reverse any US policy that supports it. If Israel’s government continues with steps to annex the West Bank, the US should make clear that none of our aid should be used to support annexation. At the same time, I will also address anti-democratic practices and corruption within the Palestinian Authority that have fed a sense of disillusionment inside the Palestinian Territories. And we must unequivocally press all sides to refrain from violence or incitement to violence.
Link: https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/trum...plan-for-that/.
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Old 2nd March 2020, 09:51 AM   #1725
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Or...maybe the United States shouldn't be proposing peace plans. We can be a mediator if both parties want us to be, but each new administration coming up with a new plan doesn't seem to have accomplished anything.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 12:52 AM   #1726
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
Massachusetts senator, presidential candidate and former professor at Harvard Law School Elizabeth Warren seems to have a good plan for peace.

She was asked:

She replied:

Link: https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/trum...plan-for-that/.
I'm not quite convinced individuals such as yourself who assert the Holocaust was the result of international Jewry preventing Europe from appeasing Hitler enough, and who admire ISIS and other such moronic drivel should be taken seriously by rational people... Jewish or otherwise.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 01:06 AM   #1727
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
I'm not quite convinced individuals such as yourself who assert the Holocaust was the result of international Jewry preventing Europe from appeasing Hitler enough, and who admire ISIS and other such moronic drivel should be taken seriously by rational people... Jewish or otherwise.
With that said... Warren is very competent and I think that she would have a far, far better chance of making progress than the current bad joke of an administration. After the Trump Presidency, though, it's hard to say how actually influential and meaningful the US' position even can be.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 01:09 AM   #1728
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
With that said... Warren is very competent and I think that she would have a far, far better chance of making progress than the current bad joke of an administration. After the Trump Presidency, though, it's hard to say how actually influential and meaningful the US' position even can be.
I agree with you and Warren. But like the N word, it depends on who's saying it.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 01:24 PM   #1729
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Or...maybe the United States shouldn't be proposing peace plans. We can be a mediator if both parties want us to be, but each new administration coming up with a new plan doesn't seem to have accomplished anything.
Pretty clear that the current administration has sort of thrown any status the US had as a honest broker .
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Old 3rd March 2020, 03:26 PM   #1730
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
I'm not quite convinced individuals such as yourself who assert the Holocaust was the result of international Jewry preventing Europe from appeasing Hitler enough, and who admire ISIS and other such moronic drivel should be taken seriously by rational people... Jewish or otherwise.
I don't think I ever said such things.

However, I do think that the current lesson drawn from World War 2 (which is, roughly, that Adolf Hitler was very, very bad, and that the UK and US were the great heroes which saved Europe from Nazism), while not being completely wrong, is nevertheless very inaccurate and misleading, and leads to (mostly unpleasant) political phenomena like Donald Trump and his beliefs.

The UK and France did not really have to (illegally) declare war to Germany in 1939 (the French declaration of war was illegal because it was never voted by parliament, and therefore violated the constitution of the third republic of the time), the Allies did not have to demand unconditional surrender of Germany in January 1943, and they also did not have to massively bomb and invade Germany, and execute its (remaining) political and military leaders after fake one-sided trials. These policies had, of course, terrible (and mostly unfair) consequences for the Jews, because Hitler was (wrongly) convinced that the Jews were responsible for all his troubles.

After the persecutions during World War 2, the Jews got a new State (Israel), and I think that's a good thing, because it shows that the world has not forgotten.

Regarding ISIS, I don't "admire" it, but I believe it is a brutal resistance movement, which developed in Iraq because of the illegal invasion of Iraq by the US (and some other countries) in 2003, and because of excessive US support for Israel. Unfortunately, when you bomb and invade illegally another country, you usually don't encourage the most delicate and refined intellectuals in that country.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 03:57 PM   #1731
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
I don't think I ever said such things.

However, I do think that the current lesson drawn from World War 2 (which is, roughly, that Adolf Hitler was very, very bad, and that the UK and US were the great heroes which saved Europe from Nazism), while not being completely wrong, is nevertheless very inaccurate and misleading, and leads to (mostly unpleasant) political phenomena like Donald Trump and his beliefs.

The UK and France did not really have to (illegally) declare war to Germany in 1939 (the French declaration of war was illegal because it was never voted by parliament, and therefore violated the constitution of the third republic of the time), the Allies did not have to demand unconditional surrender of Germany in January 1943, and they also did not have to massively bomb and invade Germany, and execute its (remaining) political and military leaders after fake one-sided trials. These policies had, of course, terrible (and mostly unfair) consequences for the Jews, because Hitler was (wrongly) convinced that the Jews were responsible for all his troubles.

After the persecutions during World War 2, the Jews got a new State (Israel), and I think that's a good thing, because it shows that the world has not forgotten.

Regarding ISIS, I don't "admire" it, but I believe it is a brutal resistance movement, which developed in Iraq because of the illegal invasion of Iraq by the US (and some other countries) in 2003, and because of excessive US support for Israel. Unfortunately, when you bomb and invade illegally another country, you usually don't encourage the most delicate and refined intellectuals in that country.
This is garbage.
A lot of it would not be out of place on an open Nazi Apologists website.
Still trying to figure out why the US and UK being proud of the part they played in briging down the Third Reich led to Donald Trump.
And how hell were the Allies going to defeat Nazi Germany without "Massively Invading " it.....
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Last edited by dudalb; 3rd March 2020 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 05:20 PM   #1732
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Still trying to figure out why the US and UK being proud of the part they played in briging down the Third Reich led to Donald Trump.
Because Donald Trump, with his policies of persecution of Iran, the Palestinians, Venezuela, North Korea, Syria, ... and even Russia expresses American arrogance to a point of near-insanity. This would perhaps not have happened if the international community (including Germany and Japan) had been more lucid and more critical of the U.S., since World War 2. America, in spite of its (very real) power, has been like a spoilt child of the world in the last 75 years or so. That's how you put a madman in the White House. The way America views itself is influenced by the way other countries see it.
Quote:
And how hell were the Allies going to defeat Nazi Germany without "Massively Invading " it.....
They could, for example, have pushed back German armies to their pre-1939 borders, and bombed military targets only (if necessary). Or relied more on local resistance and protests in invaded countries, and negotiations.

It seems to me that this would have been more satisfactory, from an ethical point of view.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 06:25 PM   #1733
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
Because Donald Trump, with his policies of persecution of Iran, the Palestinians, Venezuela, North Korea, Syria, ... and even Russia expresses American arrogance to a point of near-insanity. This would perhaps not have happened if the international community (including Germany and Japan) had been more lucid and more critical of the U.S., since World War 2. America, in spite of its (very real) power, has been like a spoilt child of the world in the last 75 years or so. That's how you put a madman in the White House. The way America views itself is influenced by the way other countries see it.

They could, for example, have pushed back German armies to their pre-1939 borders, and bombed military targets only (if necessary). Or relied more on local resistance and protests in invaded countries, and negotiations.

It seems to me that this would have been more satisfactory, from an ethical point of view
.

God, that is ridiculous.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 06:34 PM   #1734
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
I don't think I ever said such things.
You also don't think credible evidence is required to support your assertion that you have psychic powers, so forgive me for ignoring what you think...especially considering the fact that you did say such things.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 06:41 PM   #1735
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
You also don't think credible evidence is required to support your assertion that you have psychic powers, so forgive me for ignoring what you think...especially considering the fact that you did say such things.
And he sure as hell does not know much about military history and strategy,as his suggestion for how the Allies could have 'Humanly " defeated Nazi Germany goes.
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