Is the Roman Catholic Church in Freefall? - Page 46

Carrot Flower King · 12th January 2021, 10:20 AM

And still it comes out: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...her-baby-homes

Blue Mountain · 12th January 2021, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

And still it comes out: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...her-baby-homes

Report to reveal scale of abuse at Ireland's mother and baby homes

Results of investigation expected to tell how 9,000 children died in 18 institutions between 1922 and 1998

My note: that's 7 kids a year, every year, at each of the institutions.

Carrot Flower King · 12th January 2021, 12:00 PM

One does wonder if we shall ever know the full scale of this. How much will remain hidden? I mean, I've watched our CoE closing ranks in the 1990s and early years of this century and the CoE did not have the total stranglehold the RCC did in Ireland during the time this report covers. I spent 6 months in rural Co Cork in 1980 and the hold of the RCC then was scary (partly why I regard Father Ted as a documentary).

Thor 2 · 12th January 2021, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

And still it comes out: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...her-baby-homes

You beat me to it. Here is the ABC version:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...ldren/13053132

Quote:

An inquiry has found thousands of infants died in Irish homes for unmarried mothers and their offspring run by the Catholic Church from the 1920s to the 1990s, an "appalling" mortality rate that reflected brutal living conditions.

The report, which covered 18 so-called Mother and Baby Homes where young pregnant women were hidden from society for decades, is the latest in a series of government-commissioned papers that have laid bare some of the Catholic Church's darkest chapters.
Around 9,000 children died in all, Tuesday's report found — a mortality rate of 15 per cent.

So the Irish prime minister is to make a formal apology over deaths of 9,000 children at Catholic-run care homes. ???

I would think the Catholic Church should be making the apologies.

arthwollipot · 12th January 2021, 05:06 PM

Jesus Christ and his black bastard brother Harry, that's horrific. Was this primarily a failing of the Irish church, or is the practice of Mother and Baby Homes carried out elsewhere as well?

Trebuchet · 12th January 2021, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Thor 2

You beat me to it. Here is the ABC version:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...ldren/13053132

So the Irish prime minister is to make a formal apology over deaths of 9,000 children at Catholic-run care homes. ???

I would think the Catholic Church should be making the apologies.

Obviously God hated those little bastards.

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Jesus Christ and his black bastard brother Harry, that's horrific. Was this primarily a failing of the Irish church, or is the practice of Mother and Baby Homes carried out elsewhere as well?

In Spain, the church simply sold the children and told their mothers they had died.

arthwollipot · 12th January 2021, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

In Spain, the church simply sold the children and told their mothers they had died.

Gah! I need a shower now.

Thor 2 · 12th January 2021, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Obviously God hated those little bastards.

In Spain, the church simply sold the children and told their mothers they had died.

That is some article you linked Trebuchet

Quote:

An amazing 300,000 babies were stolen from their parents between 1939 and the 1990s in Spain.

The priests were busy.

I wonder if they had good job satisfaction.

Carrot Flower King · 12th January 2021, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Obviously God hated those little bastards.

In Spain, the church simply sold the children and told their mothers they had died.

The RCC in Spain has a lot to answer for: read something like Paul Preston's The Spanish Holocaust, which contains some horrific details of the church's role and that of individual priests and bishops played in the run up to the events of 1936 and on into the full Franco years.

Filippo Lippi · 13th January 2021, 06:36 AM

Keep in mind that they are eternal and their god is never-changing. He was fine with their actions then, he's fine with it now, he'll be fine with it tomorrow

Darat · 13th January 2021, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

One does wonder if we shall ever know the full scale of this. How much will remain hidden? I mean, I've watched our CoE closing ranks in the 1990s and early years of this century and the CoE did not have the total stranglehold the RCC did in Ireland during the time this report covers. I spent 6 months in rural Co Cork in 1980 and the hold of the RCC then was scary (partly why I regard Father Ted as a documentary).

It certainly was. Back in the 1980s if you had suggested that the RCC hold and influence on Ireland would be broken and wiped out within a single generation people would have said you were mad.

Carrot Flower King · 13th January 2021, 11:55 AM

Oh, the RCC does "apologise": https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-institutions

However, note this: "The report found no evidence of sexual abuse and little evidence of physical abuse – a version challenged by some survivors".

Of course they found no sodding evidence! Were the possible/probable abusers keeping written records? I suspect sexual abuse would not have been so likely, but physical abuse? Really? How is it being defined?

ponderingturtle · 13th January 2021, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain

Report to reveal scale of abuse at Ireland's mother and baby homes

Results of investigation expected to tell how 9,000 children died in 18 institutions between 1922 and 1998

My note: that's 7 kids a year, every year, at each of the institutions.

That is some good old fashioned baby farming there.

Thor 2 · 13th January 2021, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

It certainly was. Back in the 1980s if you had suggested that the RCC hold and influence on Ireland would be broken and wiped out within a single generation people would have said you were mad.

We have heard many suggestions of this, but when I look at the World Factbook I see the following regarding religion in Ireland:

Roman Catholic 78.3%, Church of Ireland 2.7%, other Christian 1.6%, Orthodox 1.3%, Muslim 1.3%, other 2.4%, none 9.8%, unspecified 2.6% (2016 est.)

Is the CIA information way out of date, or are people just describing themselves as RRC out of habit, although attending mass is a thing of the past?

ponderingturtle · 13th January 2021, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Thor 2

We have heard many suggestions of this, but when I look at the World Factbook I see the following regarding religion in Ireland:

Roman Catholic 78.3%, Church of Ireland 2.7%, other Christian 1.6%, Orthodox 1.3%, Muslim 1.3%, other 2.4%, none 9.8%, unspecified 2.6% (2016 est.)

Is the CIA information way out of date, or are people just describing themselves as RRC out of habit, although attending mass is a thing of the past?

I took it more to be a statement of the relative power of the church over peoples day to day lives

Thor 2 · 13th January 2021, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

I took it more to be a statement of the relative power of the church over peoples day to day lives

So you think they are still attending mass although not taking notice of the priests directives?

On the other hand we have heard abaddon (a resident of Ireland) telling us of Catholic Churches emptying, if I remember correctly.

arthwollipot · 13th January 2021, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Thor 2

We have heard many suggestions of this, but when I look at the World Factbook I see the following regarding religion in Ireland:

Roman Catholic 78.3%, Church of Ireland 2.7%, other Christian 1.6%, Orthodox 1.3%, Muslim 1.3%, other 2.4%, none 9.8%, unspecified 2.6% (2016 est.)

Is the CIA information way out of date, or are people just describing themselves as RRC out of habit, although attending mass is a thing of the past?

I believe that the Catholic church in particular has a large number of "cultural Catholics" who profess to be Catholic but rarely practise the faith. I think only Judaism has a larger percentage of non-practising members, but that's largely because it is a cultural identity as well as a religion. Could be wrong about this. It's hard to get good data in this area.

rjh01 · 13th January 2021, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Thor 2

We have heard many suggestions of this, but when I look at the World Factbook I see the following regarding religion in Ireland:

Roman Catholic 78.3%, Church of Ireland 2.7%, other Christian 1.6%, Orthodox 1.3%, Muslim 1.3%, other 2.4%, none 9.8%, unspecified 2.6% (2016 est.)

Is the CIA information way out of date, or are people just describing themselves as RRC out of habit, although attending mass is a thing of the past?

Would take a generation or two for people to say they have no religion. They do not ask how much influence religion has over their lives. Or how often they go to church.

Darat · 14th January 2021, 02:48 AM

Originally Posted by Thor 2

So you think they are still attending mass although not taking notice of the priests directives?

On the other hand we have heard abaddon (a resident of Ireland) telling us of Catholic Churches emptying, if I remember correctly.

No they no longer attend mass in the numbers they used to do.

But that is an aside to the point that the RCC have lost their hold and influence. One only has to look at recent referendums which have approved the removal of blasphemy as a crime, made abortion legal even when the mother’s life is not in damages and so on. All against heavy opposition by the RCC.

Carrot Flower King · 14th January 2021, 06:04 AM

^ And that the report just under discussion could have been published and the underlying investigation carried out or that the likes of Catherine Corless were not completely silenced. It's not too long ago that she would have been gagged, no investigation, no report, nothing to see here, no hint of official contrition from the government and certainly not from the RCC and the whole subject would be dismissed as slander and libel put about by atheistical types...

abaddon · 14th January 2021, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Thor 2

You beat me to it. Here is the ABC version:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...ldren/13053132

So the Irish prime minister is to make a formal apology over deaths of 9,000 children at Catholic-run care homes. ???

I would think the Catholic Church should be making the apologies.

Nope. The gov of the time supported and was complicit. They went along with it.

That the gov should apologise is expected.

The church has dodged.

Because they are bastages.

I have two kids of my own. (both godless heathens). If any such thing occured with them, they would be hollering to high heaven.

But that was not an option for those mothers and children at that time.

The disturbing thing is that it continues to this day.

How do I know that? I live with it every day.

Thor 2 · 14th January 2021, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by abaddon

Nope. The gov of the time supported and was complicit. They went along with it.

That the gov should apologise is expected.

The church has dodged.

Because they are bastages.

I have two kids of my own. (both godless heathens). If any such thing occured with them, they would be hollering to high heaven.

But that was not an option for those mothers and children at that time.

The disturbing thing is that it continues to this day.

How do I know that? I live with it every day.

Yes I suppose you are right given that the government at the time was complicit.

Could you perhaps give us a couple of examples of you observations "that it continues to this day"

Thor 2 · 21st January 2021, 12:47 AM

And so it goes on:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...ation/13077392

Quote:

A victim who will be awarded $2.45 million in compensation for sexual abuse he suffered at the hands of a Catholic priest has spoken out about the "severe" impact the abuse continues to have on his life.

$2.45 million wow! How many of these sort of judgments can the RCC stand?

rjh01 · 21st January 2021, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by Thor 2

And so it goes on:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...ation/13077392

$2.45 million wow! How many of these sort of judgments can the RCC stand?

I am sure the RCC could afford to pay heaps of these.

Carrot Flower King · 21st January 2021, 05:27 AM

^Or will they try the trick threatened by a couple of Merkinanian diocese, of declaring bankruptcy in order to avoid paying up?

Thor 2 · 21st January 2021, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by rjh01

I am sure the RCC could afford to pay heaps of these.

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

^Or will they try the trick threatened by a couple of Merkinanian diocese, of declaring bankruptcy in order to avoid paying up?

Investigation of wealth of RCC in Australia:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-12/catholic-church-worth-$30-billion-investigation-finds/9422246

Quote:

Catholic Church national wealth estimated to be $30 billion, investigation finds

.......

Fairfax's six-month investigation found the Catholic Church was worth more than $9 billion in Victoria alone.

........

For instance, the Catholic Church told the royal commission it was worth $109 million in Victoria, based largely on historical costs of property rather than market rates.
At the same time, protection of the church's assets has long been cited as a reason to minimise the payouts to sex abuse victims.

Some church authorities are telling porkies perhaps ...... surely not.

arthwollipot · 21st January 2021, 02:32 PM

The Church has a long history of not holding itself accountable to secular authorities.

Filippo Lippi · 21st January 2021, 02:53 PM

Their magical friend forgives all their wrongdoing

arthwollipot · 21st January 2021, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi

Their magical friend forgives all their wrongdoing

Not so much that, but the church deals with its own. Badly, sometimes, as it turns out.

Tassman · 22nd January 2021, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

The Church has a long history of not holding itself accountable to secular authorities.

Oh, but the Church is well above mere secular authorities, dontcha-know? It's accountable only to God

Thor 2 · 22nd January 2021, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Tassman

Oh, but the Church is well above mere secular authorities, dontcha-know? It's accountable only to God

Yes indeed.

It's accountable to a god they have shaped over the years.

Lupus · 23rd January 2021, 12:29 AM

This thread reminds me of this dumb video,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLEd9fVev3Q

Gord_in_Toronto · 23rd January 2021, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Lupus

This thread reminds me of this dumb video,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLEd9fVev3Q

Should I be applying Poe's Law?

Lupus · 23rd January 2021, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

Should I be applying Poe's Law?

You mean you don't want Catholic State?

Thor 2 · 23rd January 2021, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Lupus

This thread reminds me of this dumb video,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLEd9fVev3Q

Dumb video ..... you got that right.

When the Catholic Church had control in many countries a few centuries ago, the pungent smell of people being roasted at the stake, was in the air.

Are yes, and secularism is the cause of the rise of Islam?

There may be some truth in the claim that lower birth rates may be a spin off from secularism, but to imply that this is a bad thing, just has my head spinning.

rjh01 · 23rd January 2021, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Thor 2

Dumb video ..... you got that right.

When the Catholic Church had control in many countries a few centuries ago, the pungent smell of people being roasted at the stake, was in the air.

Are yes, and secularism is the cause of the rise of Islam?

There may be some truth in the claim that lower birth rates may be a spin off from secularism, but to imply that this is a bad thing, just has my head spinning.

It plays on people's prejudices, fears and ignorance. It does not present any evidence for its opinions.

Edit. To answer the question in the thread's title, no the RCC is not in freefall. It only appears that way because people only started noticing it long after it had actually started falling down.

Thor 2 · 23rd January 2021, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by rjh01

It plays on people's prejudices, fears and ignorance. It does not present any evidence for its opinions.

If religions needed evidence to prevail they would have a short life cycle.

The RCC shows the way and is the gold standard on how truths are developed. Firstly you establish that the Pope is the leader of The One True Church. Then the Pope decrees his own infallibility. Open slather from then on to create truths as he likes.

Gord_in_Toronto · 4th February 2021, 04:26 PM

In some countries the "Church"sold children but in Germany they just rented them:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/german...rs-says-report

Quote:

Now, several lawyers with access to the 560-page report have shared segments with news outlets, including The Daily Beast. The report names various German businessmen and complicit clergy who “rented” the young boys from the nuns who ran a convent in Speyer, Germany between the 1960s and 1970s. Among the worst instances of abuse were gang bangs and orgies the young boys were forced to participate in before being returned to the convent where the nuns would then punish them for wrinkling their clothing or being covered in semen.

The mind boggles -- among other things.

Thor 2 · 4th February 2021, 08:53 PM

I suppose anything is justified if you can make a buck for mother church.

Can't have foul semen covered boys hanging around those nuns. They might get dirty habits.

Thor 2 · 7th February 2021, 02:44 PM

Interesting to ponder on how this could effect the devout.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-...rtion/13116456

Quote:

Not since John F Kennedy's presidency in the early 1960s has a Catholic politician been elected to the USA's highest office.
By all accounts, President Joe Biden's faith isn't phony, forced, or ammunition for a photo opportunity.
(And unlike JFK, who governed during an era of anti-Catholic sentiment, Mr Biden hasn't made any attempts to distance himself from the Vatican.)
But his liberal views on two polarising topics — abortion and gender rights — still have some religious constituents, and leaders, up in arms.

A Catholic with liberal views on the subjects of abortion and gender rights siting in the Oval Office. My, my, what is the world coming to? Does this chip away at the authority of Pope and Church?

12th January 2021, 11:32 AM	#1802
Blue Mountain Resident Skeptical Hobbit Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg Posts: 6,464	Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King And still it comes out: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...her-baby-homes Report to reveal scale of abuse at Ireland's mother and baby homes Results of investigation expected to tell how 9,000 children died in 18 institutions between 1922 and 1998 My note: that's 7 kids a year, every year, at each of the institutions.
	__________________ The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French) Canadian or living in Canada? PM me if you want an entry on the list of Canadians on the forum. Last edited by Blue Mountain; 12th January 2021 at 11:34 AM.

12th January 2021, 12:00 PM	#1803
Carrot Flower King Muse Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 753	One does wonder if we shall ever know the full scale of this. How much will remain hidden? I mean, I've watched our CoE closing ranks in the 1990s and early years of this century and the CoE did not have the total stranglehold the RCC did in Ireland during the time this report covers. I spent 6 months in rural Co Cork in 1980 and the hold of the RCC then was scary (partly why I regard Father Ted as a documentary).
	Last edited by Carrot Flower King; 12th January 2021 at 12:03 PM.

12th January 2021, 01:03 PM	#1804
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Brisbane, Aust. Posts: 6,608	Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King And still it comes out: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...her-baby-homes You beat me to it. Here is the ABC version: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...ldren/13053132 Quote: An inquiry has found thousands of infants died in Irish homes for unmarried mothers and their offspring run by the Catholic Church from the 1920s to the 1990s, an "appalling" mortality rate that reflected brutal living conditions. The report, which covered 18 so-called Mother and Baby Homes where young pregnant women were hidden from society for decades, is the latest in a series of government-commissioned papers that have laid bare some of the Catholic Church's darkest chapters. Around 9,000 children died in all, Tuesday's report found — a mortality rate of 15 per cent. So the Irish prime minister is to make a formal apology over deaths of 9,000 children at Catholic-run care homes. ??? I would think the Catholic Church should be making the apologies.
	__________________ Thinking is a faith hazard.

12th January 2021, 05:06 PM	#1805
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,273	Jesus Christ and his black bastard brother Harry, that's horrific. Was this primarily a failing of the Irish church, or is the practice of Mother and Baby Homes carried out elsewhere as well?
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

12th January 2021, 05:52 PM	#1806
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,059	Originally Posted by Thor 2 You beat me to it. Here is the ABC version: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...ldren/13053132 So the Irish prime minister is to make a formal apology over deaths of 9,000 children at Catholic-run care homes. ??? I would think the Catholic Church should be making the apologies. Obviously God hated those little bastards. Originally Posted by arthwollipot Jesus Christ and his black bastard brother Harry, that's horrific. Was this primarily a failing of the Irish church, or is the practice of Mother and Baby Homes carried out elsewhere as well? In Spain, the church simply sold the children and told their mothers they had died.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

12th January 2021, 10:20 AM	#1801
Carrot Flower King Muse Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 753	And still it comes out: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...her-baby-homes

12th January 2021, 05:58 PM	#1807
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,273	Originally Posted by Trebuchet In Spain, the church simply sold the children and told their mothers they had died. Gah! I need a shower now.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

12th January 2021, 06:26 PM	#1808
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Brisbane, Aust. Posts: 6,608	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Obviously God hated those little bastards. In Spain, the church simply sold the children and told their mothers they had died. That is some article you linked Trebuchet Quote: An amazing 300,000 babies were stolen from their parents between 1939 and the 1990s in Spain. The priests were busy. I wonder if they had good job satisfaction.
	__________________ Thinking is a faith hazard.

12th January 2021, 08:45 PM	#1809
Carrot Flower King Muse Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 753	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Obviously God hated those little bastards. In Spain, the church simply sold the children and told their mothers they had died. The RCC in Spain has a lot to answer for: read something like Paul Preston's The Spanish Holocaust, which contains some horrific details of the church's role and that of individual priests and bishops played in the run up to the events of 1936 and on into the full Franco years.

13th January 2021, 06:36 AM	#1810
Filippo Lippi Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,364	Keep in mind that they are eternal and their god is never-changing. He was fine with their actions then, he's fine with it now, he'll be fine with it tomorrow
	__________________ You can't defeat fascism through debate because it's not simply an idea, proposal or theory. It's a fundamentally flawed way of looking at the world. It's a distorting prism, emotionally charged and completely logic-proof. You may as well challenge rabies to a game of Boggle. @ViolettaCrisis

13th January 2021, 06:41 AM	#1811
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,062	Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King One does wonder if we shall ever know the full scale of this. How much will remain hidden? I mean, I've watched our CoE closing ranks in the 1990s and early years of this century and the CoE did not have the total stranglehold the RCC did in Ireland during the time this report covers. I spent 6 months in rural Co Cork in 1980 and the hold of the RCC then was scary (partly why I regard Father Ted as a documentary). It certainly was. Back in the 1980s if you had suggested that the RCC hold and influence on Ireland would be broken and wiped out within a single generation people would have said you were mad.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

13th January 2021, 11:55 AM	#1812
Carrot Flower King Muse Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 753	Oh, the RCC does "apologise": https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-institutions However, note this: "The report found no evidence of sexual abuse and little evidence of physical abuse – a version challenged by some survivors". Of course they found no sodding evidence! Were the possible/probable abusers keeping written records? I suspect sexual abuse would not have been so likely, but physical abuse? Really? How is it being defined?
	Last edited by Carrot Flower King; 13th January 2021 at 11:56 AM.

13th January 2021, 11:58 AM	#1813
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,461	Originally Posted by Blue Mountain Report to reveal scale of abuse at Ireland's mother and baby homes Results of investigation expected to tell how 9,000 children died in 18 institutions between 1922 and 1998 My note: that's 7 kids a year, every year, at each of the institutions. That is some good old fashioned baby farming there.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

13th January 2021, 01:29 PM	#1814
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Brisbane, Aust. Posts: 6,608	Originally Posted by Darat It certainly was. Back in the 1980s if you had suggested that the RCC hold and influence on Ireland would be broken and wiped out within a single generation people would have said you were mad. We have heard many suggestions of this, but when I look at the World Factbook I see the following regarding religion in Ireland: Roman Catholic 78.3%, Church of Ireland 2.7%, other Christian 1.6%, Orthodox 1.3%, Muslim 1.3%, other 2.4%, none 9.8%, unspecified 2.6% (2016 est.) Is the CIA information way out of date, or are people just describing themselves as RRC out of habit, although attending mass is a thing of the past?
	__________________ Thinking is a faith hazard.

13th January 2021, 01:36 PM	#1815
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,461	Originally Posted by Thor 2 We have heard many suggestions of this, but when I look at the World Factbook I see the following regarding religion in Ireland: Roman Catholic 78.3%, Church of Ireland 2.7%, other Christian 1.6%, Orthodox 1.3%, Muslim 1.3%, other 2.4%, none 9.8%, unspecified 2.6% (2016 est.) Is the CIA information way out of date, or are people just describing themselves as RRC out of habit, although attending mass is a thing of the past? I took it more to be a statement of the relative power of the church over peoples day to day lives
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

13th January 2021, 01:43 PM	#1816
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Brisbane, Aust. Posts: 6,608	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle I took it more to be a statement of the relative power of the church over peoples day to day lives So you think they are still attending mass although not taking notice of the priests directives? On the other hand we have heard abaddon (a resident of Ireland) telling us of Catholic Churches emptying, if I remember correctly.
	__________________ Thinking is a faith hazard.

13th January 2021, 05:03 PM	#1817
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,273	Originally Posted by Thor 2 We have heard many suggestions of this, but when I look at the World Factbook I see the following regarding religion in Ireland: Roman Catholic 78.3%, Church of Ireland 2.7%, other Christian 1.6%, Orthodox 1.3%, Muslim 1.3%, other 2.4%, none 9.8%, unspecified 2.6% (2016 est.) Is the CIA information way out of date, or are people just describing themselves as RRC out of habit, although attending mass is a thing of the past? I believe that the Catholic church in particular has a large number of "cultural Catholics" who profess to be Catholic but rarely practise the faith. I think only Judaism has a larger percentage of non-practising members, but that's largely because it is a cultural identity as well as a religion. Could be wrong about this. It's hard to get good data in this area.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

13th January 2021, 08:47 PM	#1818
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 26,515	Originally Posted by Thor 2 We have heard many suggestions of this, but when I look at the World Factbook I see the following regarding religion in Ireland: Roman Catholic 78.3%, Church of Ireland 2.7%, other Christian 1.6%, Orthodox 1.3%, Muslim 1.3%, other 2.4%, none 9.8%, unspecified 2.6% (2016 est.) Is the CIA information way out of date, or are people just describing themselves as RRC out of habit, although attending mass is a thing of the past? Would take a generation or two for people to say they have no religion. They do not ask how much influence religion has over their lives. Or how often they go to church.
	__________________ This signature is for rent.

14th January 2021, 02:48 AM	#1819
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,062	Originally Posted by Thor 2 So you think they are still attending mass although not taking notice of the priests directives? On the other hand we have heard abaddon (a resident of Ireland) telling us of Catholic Churches emptying, if I remember correctly. No they no longer attend mass in the numbers they used to do. But that is an aside to the point that the RCC have lost their hold and influence. One only has to look at recent referendums which have approved the removal of blasphemy as a crime, made abortion legal even when the mother’s life is not in damages and so on. All against heavy opposition by the RCC.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

14th January 2021, 06:04 AM	#1820
Carrot Flower King Muse Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 753	^ And that the report just under discussion could have been published and the underlying investigation carried out or that the likes of Catherine Corless were not completely silenced. It's not too long ago that she would have been gagged, no investigation, no report, nothing to see here, no hint of official contrition from the government and certainly not from the RCC and the whole subject would be dismissed as slander and libel put about by atheistical types...

14th January 2021, 02:56 PM	#1821
abaddon Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 21,300	Originally Posted by Thor 2 You beat me to it. Here is the ABC version: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...ldren/13053132 So the Irish prime minister is to make a formal apology over deaths of 9,000 children at Catholic-run care homes. ??? I would think the Catholic Church should be making the apologies. Nope. The gov of the time supported and was complicit. They went along with it. That the gov should apologise is expected. The church has dodged. Because they are bastages. I have two kids of my own. (both godless heathens). If any such thing occured with them, they would be hollering to high heaven. But that was not an option for those mothers and children at that time. The disturbing thing is that it continues to this day. How do I know that? I live with it every day.
	__________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes...

14th January 2021, 03:38 PM	#1822
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Brisbane, Aust. Posts: 6,608	Originally Posted by abaddon Nope. The gov of the time supported and was complicit. They went along with it. That the gov should apologise is expected. The church has dodged. Because they are bastages. I have two kids of my own. (both godless heathens). If any such thing occured with them, they would be hollering to high heaven. But that was not an option for those mothers and children at that time. The disturbing thing is that it continues to this day. How do I know that? I live with it every day. Yes I suppose you are right given that the government at the time was complicit. Could you perhaps give us a couple of examples of you observations "that it continues to this day"
	__________________ Thinking is a faith hazard.

21st January 2021, 12:47 AM	#1823
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Brisbane, Aust. Posts: 6,608	And so it goes on: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...ation/13077392 Quote: A victim who will be awarded $2.45 million in compensation for sexual abuse he suffered at the hands of a Catholic priest has spoken out about the "severe" impact the abuse continues to have on his life. $2.45 million wow! How many of these sort of judgments can the RCC stand?
	__________________ Thinking is a faith hazard.

21st January 2021, 03:01 AM	#1824
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 26,515	Originally Posted by Thor 2 And so it goes on: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...ation/13077392 $2.45 million wow! How many of these sort of judgments can the RCC stand? I am sure the RCC could afford to pay heaps of these.
	__________________ This signature is for rent.

21st January 2021, 05:27 AM	#1825
Carrot Flower King Muse Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 753	^Or will they try the trick threatened by a couple of Merkinanian diocese, of declaring bankruptcy in order to avoid paying up?

21st January 2021, 02:17 PM	#1826
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Brisbane, Aust. Posts: 6,608	Originally Posted by rjh01 I am sure the RCC could afford to pay heaps of these. Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King ^Or will they try the trick threatened by a couple of Merkinanian diocese, of declaring bankruptcy in order to avoid paying up? Investigation of wealth of RCC in Australia: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-12/catholic-church-worth-$30-billion-investigation-finds/9422246 Quote: Catholic Church national wealth estimated to be $30 billion, investigation finds ....... Fairfax's six-month investigation found the Catholic Church was worth more than $9 billion in Victoria alone. ........ For instance, the Catholic Church told the royal commission it was worth $109 million in Victoria, based largely on historical costs of property rather than market rates. At the same time, protection of the church's assets has long been cited as a reason to minimise the payouts to sex abuse victims. Some church authorities are telling porkies perhaps ...... surely not.
	__________________ Thinking is a faith hazard.

21st January 2021, 02:32 PM	#1827
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,273	The Church has a long history of not holding itself accountable to secular authorities.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

21st January 2021, 02:53 PM	#1828
Filippo Lippi Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,364	Their magical friend forgives all their wrongdoing
	__________________ You can't defeat fascism through debate because it's not simply an idea, proposal or theory. It's a fundamentally flawed way of looking at the world. It's a distorting prism, emotionally charged and completely logic-proof. You may as well challenge rabies to a game of Boggle. @ViolettaCrisis

21st January 2021, 02:56 PM	#1829
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,273	Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi Their magical friend forgives all their wrongdoing Not so much that, but the church deals with its own. Badly, sometimes, as it turns out.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

22nd January 2021, 12:08 AM	#1830
Tassman Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,120	Originally Posted by arthwollipot The Church has a long history of not holding itself accountable to secular authorities. Oh, but the Church is well above mere secular authorities, dontcha-know? It's accountable only to God
Tassman Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,120	__________________ “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” ― Douglas Adams.

22nd January 2021, 01:27 PM	#1831
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Brisbane, Aust. Posts: 6,608	Originally Posted by Tassman Oh, but the Church is well above mere secular authorities, dontcha-know? It's accountable only to God Yes indeed. It's accountable to a god they have shaped over the years.
	__________________ Thinking is a faith hazard.

23rd January 2021, 12:29 AM	#1832
Lupus Scholar Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 86	This thread reminds me of this dumb video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLEd9fVev3Q
Lupus Scholar Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 86

23rd January 2021, 09:16 AM	#1833
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,428	Originally Posted by Lupus This thread reminds me of this dumb video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLEd9fVev3Q Should I be applying Poe's Law?
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

23rd January 2021, 12:17 PM	#1834
Lupus Scholar Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 86	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto Should I be applying Poe's Law? You mean you don't want Catholic State? Yeah, you could.
Lupus Scholar Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 86

23rd January 2021, 01:28 PM	#1835
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Brisbane, Aust. Posts: 6,608	Originally Posted by Lupus This thread reminds me of this dumb video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLEd9fVev3Q Dumb video ..... you got that right. When the Catholic Church had control in many countries a few centuries ago, the pungent smell of people being roasted at the stake, was in the air. Are yes, and secularism is the cause of the rise of Islam? There may be some truth in the claim that lower birth rates may be a spin off from secularism, but to imply that this is a bad thing, just has my head spinning.
	__________________ Thinking is a faith hazard.