Coronavirus and faith

[dann]

Originally Posted by Thor 2

Oh no ........ what did I say! Dann is going to jump on this and say I am gleeful about it.

When the glee is this obvious, I don't think it's necessary. So far, you seem to be one of the few who can't come up with any other way of criticizing ordinary Christians than by means of references to Christian fundamentalists. It's pretty similar to the way that you usually criticize Muslims.

[Trebuchet]

Originally Posted by dann

When the glee is this obvious, I don't think it's necessary. So far, you seem to be one of the few who can't come up with any other way of criticizing ordinary Christians than by means of references to Christian fundamentalists. It's pretty similar to the way that you usually criticize Muslims.

You're not American. The fundies are taking over here.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

You're not American. The fundies are taking over here.

Neither is Thor2.

[dann]

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

You're not American. The fundies are taking over here.

I'm not unaware of that, but that doesn't mean that one shouldn't distinguish between, on the one hand, ordinary Christians and Muslims, and on the other hand, fundamentalists. Fundamentalist Muslims hijack planes and fly them into buildings; ordinary Muslims don't. Fundamentalist Christians, in this situation, insist on attending prayer meetings, contracting and spreading the virus in the name of their lord; ordinary Christians know what a virus is and meet online instead.
I have yet to hear about a religious group in Scandinavia that defies the ban on public as well as private meetings of more than a certain number of people; in Denmark it's 10. I've tried to google it and I've asked other Scandinavian skeptics, but so far I've found nothing.

[Susheel]

Here is something from the land of religious woo:
https://www.indiatimes.com/amp/techn...20-509487.html

[dann]

I think a Danish astrologer would also like to make it seem as if astrology ... somehow ... predicted the pandemic, which it didn't, of course.


But there's this great piece of news about the relationship between the Danish state and the Church of Denmark:

Quote:

Landets præster er både bekymrede og overraskede over, at kirkeminister Joy Mogensen (S) overvejer at åbne kirkerne for gudstjeneste til påske.
Det siger Per Bucholdt Andreasen, der er formand for Præsteforeningen:
- Det virker modsatrettet, at folkekirken får lempet begrænsningerne efter statsministerens opfordring til at holde fast og holde ud indtil efter påske.
Præsteforeningen har hele tiden opfordret til, at folkekirken skal undgå at medvirke til smittespredning, lyder det i en udtalelse på hjemmesiden.
Præster går i rette med ministeren - ønsker ikke at åbne kirkerne til påske (TV2, April 2, 2020, 16:33)

My translation:
The vicars of Denmark are both concerned and surprised that church minister Joy Mogensen (Social Democrat) considers opening the churches for Easter worship.
This is what Per Bucholdt Andreasen, president of the Vicars Association, says in a statement:
- After the primeminister urged Denmark to hold tight and persevere until after Easter, it seems to be self-contradictory to relax the restrictions for the state church.
A statement on the website says that the Vicars Association has persistently called for the state church to avoid contributing to the spread of infection.
Vicars argue with the minister - they don't want to open the churches for Easter

Way to go, vicars! Refuse to start spreading that bloody virus! Show them how to do it!

[dann]

Good news from Denmark in the case of the protesting vicars:
Efter præsters protester: Kirkeminister vil alligevel ikke åbne kirkerne i påsken (DR.dk, April 2, 2020)

After the vicars protested: The church minister won't open the churches for Easter, after all

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Susheel

Here is something from the land of religious woo:
https://www.indiatimes.com/amp/techn...20-509487.html

Nice.

There had to be one somewhere. People have even tried to pin it on The Simpsons.

Originally Posted by dann

The vicars of Denmark are both concerned and surprised that church minister Joy Mogensen (Social Democrat) considers opening the churches for Easter worship.

I agree - good for the vicars. It's funny how state religions under a monarch seem to have more sensible people at the front line. That's the sort of thing I'd expect from the Anglicans in UK as well.

Unlike some other countries...

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/flori...b60bbd7350d1fc

[Filippo Lippi]

Originally Posted by Susheel

Here is something from the land of religious woo:
https://www.indiatimes.com/amp/techn...20-509487.html

Christ, they put it in the science section

[Susheel]

Yeah...IndiaTimes, a media group that could be call the Fox News of India.

[dann]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

I agree - good for the vicars.

And for the congregation, too, I think. And for the rest of us who may happen to know somebody in the congregation and now won't get infected by them.

Quote:

It's funny how state religions under a monarch seem to have more sensible people at the front line. That's the sort of thing I'd expect from the Anglicans in UK as well.

Unlike some other countries...

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/flori...b60bbd7350d1fc

I've seen it explained in the following way, but I no longer remember where. It may have been in Phil Zuckerman's book Society without God:

The Danish vicars are employed by the state so they are a kind of civil servants. They don't have to compete in the marketplace of religion to earn a living. (But they also don't have the chance to become multi millionaires with mega churches, private jets and yachts like some American preachers.) They are not under any obligation to try to convince people that there is a God in Heaven and a life after death. They don't even have to believe in those things, so they also don't have to fear losing their job if they lose their faith.

I haven't had much to do with vicars, but they tend to be nice people when I've met them. Down to earth and sensible as you can tell from their opposition to the church minister's proposal to open the churches for Easter.
I am a fan of neither state nor church, but whenever I hear the atheists around here advocate for the separation of church and state (it doesn't happen very often), I tell them that they are ******* nuts!

[KDLarsen]

To be fair, I think there has been some confusion on whether or not the churches should/would be open for Easter services. My understanding of it was that, some of the political parties had enquired if it would be possible to do it on a limited scale, which the church minister had expressed a willingness to look into.

This was then reported as a statement of fact from the minister, that the churches would indeed be open for Easter services.

In any case, some churches, especially the larger ones, have transitioned to broadcasting brief services on YouTube or Facebook Live, and I'd imagine that is what they'll do for the Easter service.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by dann

I am a fan of neither state nor church, but whenever I hear the atheists around here advocate for the separation of church and state (it doesn't happen very often), I tell them that they are ******* nuts!

Yep - it's noticeable that the heaviest concentration of truly insane "christians" are in USA.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Yep - it's noticeable that the heaviest concentration of truly insane "christians" are in USA.

I think it's safe to say that America took Christianity in directions it had never been before.

And now America is exporting its version of Christianity to the rest of the world because of course it is.

[Thor 2]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I think it's safe to say that America took Christianity in directions it had never been before.

And now America is exporting its version of Christianity to the rest of the world because of course it is.

I would bet, if you were to investigate the origin of the 40,000 different flavours of Christianity, 90% of them started in the USA.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Thor 2

I would bet, if you were to investigate the origin of the 40,000 different flavours of Christianity, 90% of them started in the USA.

Maybe not 90% but a substantial majority, yeah.

[Resume]

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...outdoor-easter

Quote:

A Pennsylvania pastor earlier this week announced plans to hold an “outdoor Easter blowout service” that he compared to the likes of Woodstock, despite federal guidelines urging the public to avoid large gatherings and practice social distancing during the coronavirus pandemic.

"I'm going to announce it, but we're going to hold an outdoor Easter blowout service, not online, a national gathering, you come from all over like Woodstock,” he continued. “And we're going to gather and lift up Jesus Christ.'

STFU

[dann]

The 'Woodstock preacher' was mentioned in the thread with the unfortunate title, Preacher wanst Christian Woodstock in defeince of lockdown orders...

[dann]

Originally Posted by KDLarsen

To be fair, I think there has been some confusion on whether or not the churches should/would be open for Easter services. My understanding of it was that, some of the political parties had enquired if it would be possible to do it on a limited scale, which the church minister had expressed a willingness to look into.

This was then reported as a statement of fact from the minister, that the churches would indeed be open for Easter services.

In any case, some churches, especially the larger ones, have transitioned to broadcasting brief services on YouTube or Facebook Live, and I'd imagine that is what they'll do for the Easter service.

I wasn't aware of that, but I can see that Søren Pape was involved, which doesn't surprise me at all: Præster langer ud efter Joy og Papes påskeplan (EkstraBladet, April 2, 2020)
Translation: Vicars strike out against Joy and Pape's plan

I can see that the bishops protested, too!

I bet that Pape was inspired by stupid, selfish, shortsighted businessmen and members of his party like Asger Aamund:
80-årige Aamund: En fejl at lukke hele Danmark ned (BT, March 23, 2020)

Translation: 80-year-old Aamund: It's a mistake to put all of Denmark on lockdown

[dann]

Denmark appears to have a minor problem with the Catholics:
Mens folkekirken er lukket, holder katolske kirker åbent trods coronakrise (DR.dk, April 3, 2020)

Translation:
While the state church of Denmark is on lockdown, Catholic Churches are open despite the coronavirus crisis

However, the Catholic Churches in Denmark have stopped mass altogether. They just continue to have confession. I can't imagine that the risk of spreading the infection in this way will be very high, but I also don't see why Catholics can't just go online whenever they feel the need to confess. (I think that Karl Marx described it as 'relieving oneself spiritually.')

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by dann

Denmark appears to have a minor problem with the Catholics:

Doesn't everyone?

Ours are by far the most aggressive religious sect. The kiddies' religions push among their groups, but only the Catholics spend millions on TV advertising and supporting "morality" campaigns.

I just hope they're still using communion chalices.

Meanwhile, yet another American church has decided to share the disease among its flock: https://www.sfgate.com/coronavirus/a...s-15175215.php

65+ cases. Good work, morons.

[Thor 2]

In Israel the antra conservative town of Bnei Brak is on lockdown. The town has a disproportionately large number of coronavirus cases, which may in part be the result of rabbis urging residents to spurn ant-virus measures. The rabbis think God will protect them I suppose.

So now we have fundy Christians as well as fundy Jewish, defying worldly medical advice in favour of God given directions, via those seen as qualified to give it. Anyone hear of other religious groups doing the same?

[The Atheist]

Well, the muslins in Iran were insisting on licking a statue when the death toll was at its height there.

[alfaniner]

I just saw a segment about one of those churches that refused to close (Southern U.S.).

People driving out form the services aren't concerned because "I'm covered in Jesus' blood!" or "Jesus' blood cures everything!"

For. ****'s. Sake.

[Ulf Nereng]

Originally Posted by dann

Denmark appears to have a minor problem with the Catholics:
Mens folkekirken er lukket, holder katolske kirker åbent trods coronakrise (DR.dk, April 3, 2020)

Translation:
While the state church of Denmark is on lockdown, Catholic Churches are open despite the coronavirus crisis

However, the Catholic Churches in Denmark have stopped mass altogether. They just continue to have confession. I can't imagine that the risk of spreading the infection in this way will be very high, but I also don't see why Catholics can't just go online whenever they feel the need to confess. (I think that Karl Marx described it as 'relieving oneself spiritually.')

Well, after confession there should be absolving, and that may not work properly at long range.

[dann]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Doesn't everyone?

Ours are by far the most aggressive religious sect. The kiddies' religions push among their groups, but only the Catholics spend millions on TV advertising and supporting "morality" campaigns.

I've never seen religious TV advertising in Denmark. And if you don't happen to live next to one of the few Catholic churches, you may not even notice that Catholics exist. In my municipality of Copenhagen, Frederiksberg (103,960 inhabitants), there appears to be only one Catholic church. I've lived here since 1997, and I had never heard of it until I googled "catholic churches frederiksberg" just now.
Maybe the Pope may have given up on us ...

[dann]

Originally Posted by Ulf Nereng

Well, after confession there should be absolving, and that may not work properly at long range.

Well, God works in mysterious ways and the Pope has introduced something called “general absolution” to the faithful, “without prior individual confession” (The Jesuit Review, March 20, 2020)
Maybe the Danish Catholics didn't get the memo.

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by alfaniner

I just saw a segment about one of those churches that refused to close (Southern U.S.).

People driving out form the services aren't concerned because "I'm covered in Jesus' blood!" or "Jesus' blood cures everything!"

For. ****'s. Sake.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/0...-ac360-vpx.cnn


That particular nutcase was in Ohio though I've seen reports out of Florida and other places. Watch the video if you're in the mood have your stomach turned. The only consolation is that based on the pastor's "fake news" comment at the end, they are likely Trump supporters and Ohio is a swing state.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by Thor 2

Seem like a nice bunch of guys.

Has any Bible thumper suggested the coronavirus pandemic, is the result of God's wrath because of homosexuality yet? They are a bit slow off the mark if not.

Quote:

America is experiencing the consequential wrath of God

Of course. Trump's pal Ralph Drollinger the cretin who does "bible study" groups for the Trumpettes.

[Trebuchet]

Rodney Howard-Browne:

Quote:

Masks now, Burka next! Get ready!

Link.
He's the clown who was arrested for holding a mass church service. Apparently he's now called off services because the church's insurance got cancelled.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by dann

I've never seen religious TV advertising in Denmark. And if you don't happen to live next to one of the few Catholic churches, you may not even notice that Catholics exist. In my municipality of Copenhagen, Frederiksberg (103,960 inhabitants), there appears to be only one Catholic church. I've lived here since 1997, and I had never heard of it until I googled "catholic churches frederiksberg" just now.
Maybe the Pope may have given up on us ...

Lucky you!

Thanks to importing large numbers of Catholics through immigration, they've really started to flex their money down here in recent years. They've always advertised on TV, but much more lately.

Worst of all, and something that disgusts me every time I drive past it, is a Catholic school at the end of our street which has the back wall of the school gym facing the road, with "God Is Our Compass" written across it in letters that are probably visible from the moon.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Rodney Howard-Browne:

Link.
He's the clown who was arrested for holding a mass church service. Apparently he's now called off services because the church's insurance got cancelled.

Why on earth does he need insurance.......

[dann]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Thanks to importing large numbers of Catholics through immigration, they've really started to flex their money down here in recent years. They've always advertised on TV, but much more lately.

Don't despair!

Quote:

Up until the 2016 census, adherents had been recorded as growing both numerically and as a percentage of the population, however the 2016 census found a fall in both overall numbers and the percentage of Catholics as a proportion of Australia: with 5,291,839 Australian Catholics (around 22.6% of the population) in 2016 down from 5,439,257 in the 2011 census (25.3% of the population).
Catholic Church in Australia (Wikipedia)

Quote:

Worst of all, and something that disgusts me every time I drive past it, is a Catholic school at the end of our street which has the back wall of the school gym facing the road, with "God Is Our Compass" written across it in letters that are probably visible from the moon.

Put up your own sign: "Who needs God? I've got GPS!"

[dann]

Originally Posted by Darat

Why on earth does he need insurance.......

Well, doesn't everybody?!

[catsmate]

Bethany Slavic Missionary church, a Pentecostal church in suburban Sacramento that failed to end services moving them from the church building to various private homes presided over by church pastors, is at the centre of a major infection cluster. 71 people have been diagnosed, and tested, with Covid-19.
The 71 include three pastors who are critically ill in hospital,

Last year the church, led by hospitalised senior pastor Adam Bondaruk,protected against vaccination laws in California.

******* god-bothering morons. They didn't even have the decency to follow the example of Giuseppe Berardelli.

[Thor 2]

Originally Posted by catsmate

Bethany Slavic Missionary church, a Pentecostal church in suburban Sacramento that failed to end services moving them from the church building to various private homes presided over by church pastors, is at the centre of a major infection cluster. 71 people have been diagnosed, and tested, with Covid-19.
The 71 include three pastors who are critically ill in hospital,

Last year the church, led by hospitalised senior pastor Adam Bondaruk,protected against vaccination laws in California.

******* god-bothering morons. They didn't even have the decency to follow the example of Giuseppe Berardelli.

I don't detect a gleeful smirk on your face do I catsmate?

[Ulf Nereng]

I think we all kniow that we shouldn't exhibit too much schadenfreude, but it's hard sometimes.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by catsmate

They didn't even have the decency to follow the example of Giuseppe Berardelli.

You know that story was made up?

https://cruxnow.com/covid-19/2020/03...pecial-person/

[dann]

Does that mean that he won't be sanctified or is there a loophole somewhere?

[zooterkin]

Israel health minister, who claimed Covid-19 is a divine punishment for homosexuality, tests positive for Covid-19...


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...19/ar-BB12goRL