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Old 10th December 2020, 03:50 AM   #1
AlexPontik
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Perhaps one of you could help me out

Hi all,
I have the below and are looking for what is missing, anyone who can help, please do.

When all there is, is more than my imagination
When all there is, is more than my imagination, then it is equal to the patience I have to find them in reality, because

Otherwise when all there is, is more than my imagination, then it is not equal to the patience I have to find them in reality, but

If in the end when all there is, is more than my imagination, then is is not equal to the patience I have to find them in reality, it doesn't seem to me that the patience I imagine I have is enough, to be within reality.

When all there is, is other than my imagination
When all there is, is other than my imagination, then my imagination is outside of reality, because

when all there is, is other than my imagination, my imagination is inside reality, but

if in the end, when all there is, is other than my imagination, my imagination is inside reality, it doesn't seem to me outside of reality what I imagine there is.

When all there is, is equal to my imagination
When all there is, is equal to my imagination, then outside of my imagination is the patience I have to find the rest from me in reality, because

Otherwise when all there is, is equal to my imagination, then inside my imagination is the patience I have to find the rest from me in reality, but

If in the end, when all there is, is equal to my imagination, then inside my imagination is the patience I have to find the rest from me in reality, it doesn't seem to me when I imagine me and the rest from me together as all there is, how much patience is enough so that the rest find me in reality, outside of my imagination.

When all there is, is below my imagination
When all there is, is below my imagination, then more patience I imagine I have to find them in reality, because

Otherwise when all there is, is below my imagination, then less or equal patience I imagine I have to find them in reality, but

If in the end when all there is, is below my imagination, then less or equal patience I imagine I have to find them in reality, it doesn't seem to me I imagine how much patience is above my imagination in reality.
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Old 10th December 2020, 03:53 AM   #2
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palilalia
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Old 10th December 2020, 04:56 AM   #3
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Sorry, but I don't have the patience to find all that there is that you imagine you need help with.

Dave
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Old 10th December 2020, 05:03 AM   #4
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This doesn't make sense. Maybe you should get some fresh air
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Old 10th December 2020, 05:54 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I learned some new.
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Old 10th December 2020, 05:56 AM   #6
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Let's see if I can translate.

The relationship between things I imagine, and things in reality, must be one of the following:

1. Things I imagine are a subset of things in reality.
2. Things in reality are disjoint from things I imagine.
3. Things in reality are the same set as things I imagine.
4. Things in reality are a subset of things I imagine.

Each one causes a contradiction when I consider my cognitive ability to recognize whether things I imagine also exist in reality and vice versa. Call that ability X. I imagine I have X, so X must be a thing in my imagination, but X must also exist in reality.

I haven't untangled all of the four individual arguments, but for example in case 1, X must apply to real things I have no apprehension of, which by premise 1 X cannot extend to. In case 2, X cannot exist as described in both my imagination and reality.

The implied conclusion is that both sets cannot exist, so either my own mind or external reality must be illusory.

Criticism:

a. X is not well enough defined to evaluate the four cases logically.
b. There is a case missing: 5. things in reality and things in my imagination are intersecting distinct sets.
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Old 10th December 2020, 08:20 AM   #7
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Old 10th December 2020, 08:32 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by AlexPontik View Post
Hi all,
I have the below, and am looking for what is missing, anyone who can help, please do.

When all there is, is more than my imagination
When all there is, is more than my imagination, then it is equal to the patience I have to find them in reality, because

Otherwise when all there is, is more than my imagination, then it is not equal to the patience I have to find them in reality, but

If in the end when all there is, is more than my imagination, then is is not equal to the patience I have to find them in reality, it doesn't seem to me that the patience I imagine I have is enough, to be within reality.

When all there is, is other than my imagination
When all there is, is other than my imagination, then my imagination is outside of reality, because

when all there is, is other than my imagination, my imagination is inside reality, but

if in the end, when all there is, is other than my imagination, my imagination is inside reality, it doesn't seem to me outside of reality what I imagine there is.

When all there is, is equal to my imagination
When all there is, is equal to my imagination, then outside of my imagination is the patience I have to find the rest from me in reality, because

Otherwise when all there is, is equal to my imagination, then inside my imagination is the patience I have to find the rest from me in reality, but

If in the end, when all there is, is equal to my imagination, then inside my imagination is the patience I have to find the rest from me in reality, it doesn't seem to me when I imagine me and the rest from me together as all there is, how much patience is enough so that the rest find me in reality, outside of my imagination.

When all there is, is below my imagination
When all there is, is below my imagination, then more patience I imagine I have to find them in reality, because

Otherwise when all there is, is below my imagination, then less or equal patience I imagine I have to find them in reality, but

If in the end when all there is, is below my imagination, then less or equal patience I imagine I have to find them in reality, it doesn't seem to me I imagine how much patience is above my imagination in reality.
I am unable to tell you what is missing from what you've just posted because I can't make even the vaguest sense of what it means. It honestly just comes across as nonsensical. I can't make head nor tail of what you're trying to say.
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Old 10th December 2020, 08:52 AM   #9
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I'd like to help but I get drug tested a lot and I'm pretty sure your post is only intelligible when the reader is baked out of his gourd.
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Old 10th December 2020, 08:56 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Repetition of words and phrases for rhetorical effect is not the same as palilalia.

Are you suggesting that another member's posts are the product of a mental impairment?
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Old 10th December 2020, 09:19 AM   #11
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Old 10th December 2020, 10:46 AM   #12
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Old 11th December 2020, 05:30 AM   #13
AlexPontik
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so up to know, none of you understood, clear.

so it would be best for you to not spend any further time and effort in this thread, or that would be a waste of your time and effort, but what you do, is not for me to say.

I am still waiting for someone to spend time and effort to read, and think about what I wrote, and write a reply that is relevant to what is written, and not "I don't understand".

if you don't understand, go play somewhere else...
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Old 11th December 2020, 06:00 AM   #14
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If many, if not all, find a post incomprehensible, you have failed at communicating.
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Old 11th December 2020, 06:04 AM   #15
JesseCuster
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Originally Posted by AlexPontik View Post
if you don't understand, go play somewhere else...
If no-one can understand (and I highly doubt anyone can parse the opening post and make any sort of sense out of it) then the problem is that you have failed to communicate your idea. The problem is on your end, not ours.

You posted this in the conspiracy section of the forum, what is the conspiracy you wish to allege or discuss?
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Old 11th December 2020, 06:09 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Let's see if I can translate.

The relationship between things I imagine, and things in reality, must be one of the following:

1. Things I imagine are a subset of things in reality.
2. Things in reality are disjoint from things I imagine.
3. Things in reality are the same set as things I imagine.
4. Things in reality are a subset of things I imagine.

Each one causes a contradiction when I consider my cognitive ability to recognize whether things I imagine also exist in reality and vice versa.
Consider the following three examples:

First example
1. I assume you are looking at a screen when you see this, and what you imagine seeing now on your screen is a subset of things in reality, or I imagined I wrote this to you...which doesn't seem to me...I have to say.
2. While you are still reading here now, what I am writing to you, behind the screen, things happen in a way you don't imagine, in order for my keyboard clicks to create this text, becomes what you see, unless
3. You have studied all of the parts of the screen you are using, and if you have spend all the time and effort in the past, to be able to imagine what happens behind the screen you are reading this text, then it seems to me you know, that the patience to do so is outside your imagination, you have to do that in reality
4. When I now imagine that I may be able to convince you of the arguments I wrote initially, are within reality, that still seems to me as I imagine that all there is is less than my imagination, and when that happens I imagine I have more patience to find them in reality, by writing a reply to you here.

Second example
1. Things I imagine are a subset of things in reality.
-->when you are curious about something you don't know, and you know that what you are curious about is more than your imagination, so is the patience you will need in reality to satisfy your curiosity. So when you are curious, you have to be patient, even though you may be able to get something.

2. Things in reality are disjoint from things I imagine.
-->When you imagine you will find what you will do in the next moment of your life in a text, then you are philosophizing about the next moment of your life, and it seems to me if you philosophize about all there is, you will not find what happens next, before it happens, which you have to never forget.

3. Things in reality are the same set as things I imagine.
-->When things in reality seem to be happening to humans and can be summarized with language in time with the same meaning, humans write those things down as laws of what seems to be happening, or physics, and the basic law of physics is that , what happens next, happens next in reality and not in your imagination. If it was happening first in your imagination and then in reality, then I can't imagine how reality would catch up with your imagination...as it seems to me you can all imagine all lot more than what seems to be happening in reality, some are patient...some

4. Things in reality are a subset of things I imagine.
--> When you make predictions about what happens next in reality, reality for you is a subset of your imagination, and this, happens when you imaging moving some parts of your body in reality, up to a point. After this point, reality is more than what you imagine and the patience you need to understand this is outside your imagination, in reality.

Third example
1.Pick a coin choose a side and flip it as freely as you want to live. (and after you flip it,wait for it to end up with a side facing you..)
2.After you can decide the side the coin ends up facing you, I have a question for you.
3.Why didn't you come here to tell me earlier.
4. Here's the problem and here's the solution, it seems to me you didn't because, whether you consciously understand that what happens next, happens next in reality, your unconscious part seems to me to understand it very well.
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Old 11th December 2020, 06:15 AM   #17
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and in case you wonder which case happens which time in your life, that you don't know, you just find out in reality, and try to adjust your imagination accordingly for the next time.

or at least this is what I do...
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Old 11th December 2020, 06:38 AM   #18
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"When all there is, is more than my imagination..."

In other words, "when the whole of the universe is beyond my ability to imagine as it truly is". All right, what now. I can't think of anyone sane who would say otherwise.

The "other than", "equal to" and "below" = Brain in a Box, I'm Omniscient and I'm Greater than the Universe. All about as interesting as any hippy-trippy philosophy.
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Old 11th December 2020, 07:07 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by AlexPontik View Post
so up to know, none of you understood, clear.
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Old 11th December 2020, 07:24 AM   #20
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Well, to help you out, what you wrote approaches what a high school student would THINK a profound thought looks like, but is in reality a bad rehash of an unoriginal idea in philosophy.
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Old 11th December 2020, 08:25 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by JesseCuster View Post
You posted this in the conspiracy section of the forum, what is the conspiracy you wish to allege or discuss?
Also posted in General Skepticism and the Paranormal, which begs a similar question.
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Old 11th December 2020, 08:40 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by AlexPontik View Post
so up to know, none of you understood, clear.

so it would be best for you to not spend any further time and effort in this thread, or that would be a waste of your time and effort, but what you do, is not for me to say.

I am still waiting for someone to spend time and effort to read, and think about what I wrote, and write a reply that is relevant to what is written, and not "I don't understand".

if you don't understand, go play somewhere else...
I am perfectly willing to admit, I do not understand your original post, perhaps you could clarify, because as far as I can tell, clarity is what is missing.

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Well, to help you out, what you wrote approaches what a high school student would THINK a profound thought looks like, but is in reality a bad rehash of an unoriginal idea in philosophy.
Can you help a brother out and tell me what that unoriginal idea is?

Last edited by ahhell; 11th December 2020 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 11th December 2020, 08:47 AM   #23
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AlexPontic. Brah. Everyone understands it. Its navel gazing 101. The thing about navel gazing is that it is a solo activity. You don't really group discuss it. That would be like a crowd of people gazing at your navel. Which is kind of weird. Unless you are a pole dancer or something. Is that what this is all about?
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Old 11th December 2020, 09:40 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I am perfectly willing to admit, I do not understand your original post, perhaps you could clarify, because as far as I can tell, clarity is what is missing.

Can you help a brother out and tell me what that unoriginal idea is?
I think therefore I am combined with the 'everything that happens is in my imagination'
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Old 11th December 2020, 09:53 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by AlexPontik View Post
so up to know, none of you understood, clear.

so it would be best for you to not spend any further time and effort in this thread, or that would be a waste of your time and effort, but what you do, is not for me to say.

I am still waiting for someone to spend time and effort to read, and think about what I wrote, and write a reply that is relevant to what is written, and not "I don't understand".

if you don't understand, go play somewhere else...
Well, this is not the game we play here. The game we play here is that you present some .... item ... in a comprehensible way, and THEN people may want to discuss it with you.

I have read your post, and I find that there is a certain system to it, but what you actually mean to discuss is very far from clear to me (and it has been my profession to understand systematic statements). So, with all due respect, I suggest you explain your point in some way that makes more sense or, failing that, YOU go play somewhere else.

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Old 11th December 2020, 10:00 AM   #26
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I read Kant and understood because in that work he laid a foundation and built his concept off of it. Whether or not I agreed with it was apart from understanding his idea.

This needs clarity to define that base first, otherwise it looks like a philosophy 101 class on an acid trip.

Can you supply that missing foundation?
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Old 11th December 2020, 10:31 AM   #27
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Oh dear, this is just another student/sixth former stoner "philosophy" thing, which is only "profound" to whoever else is sharing the joint or bong.

Mebbe one of your mates should've bogarted the joint.
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Old 11th December 2020, 11:11 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I'd like to help but I get drug tested a lot and I'm pretty sure your post is only intelligible when the reader is baked out of his gourd.
Incorrect. I re-read it when baked out of my gourd, and it somehow made even less sense. I did get a pretty good case of the giggles, though, so that was fun.
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Old 11th December 2020, 11:15 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by AlexPontik View Post
so up to know, none of you understood, clear.

so it would be best for you to not spend any further time and effort in this thread, or that would be a waste of your time and effort, but what you do, is not for me to say.

I am still waiting for someone to spend time and effort to read, and think about what I wrote, and write a reply that is relevant to what is written, and not "I don't understand".

if you don't understand, go play somewhere else...
Maybe you should re-write it in a way that makes more sense. I'm not trying to be snarky (at the moment). If NO ONE understands your post, then the problem might be with the post.

EDIT - By the way, we ARE just teasing you. And if English isn't your first language, then most of us wouldn't want to make fun of you for odd, confusing wording. Are you a native speaker? And are you using translation software?

We may still be inclined to make fun of your hippie philosophy, though, because that's just kind of what we do.
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Old 11th December 2020, 01:06 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Repetition of words and phrases for rhetorical effect is not the same as palilalia.

Are you suggesting that another member's posts are the product of a mental impairment?
Do you think it is this?
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Old 11th December 2020, 03:59 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Do you think it is this?
I don't think it's either that or Palilalia, to be honest, since both would imply just some extra repetition. It would at worst make it more tedious to parse, but not wrong or muddied at a conceptual level.

Whereas, what we have in the OP, I think it's actually a lot more muddied than that, since

1. it repeatedly stresses and emphasizes the patience to find that item in reality. Which seems to be something entirely spurious to the actual existence or non-existence of that thing, and ditto for the ability to imagine it.

Trivial example for reality: I'm pretty sure I could imagine a panda ant (or any other rare insect, really.) I've seen photos, it's nothing that stretches my ability to imagine. And it does exist in reality. But if someone introduces the constraint of actually having the patience to actually go and find a panda ant somewhere in nature, that's a whole different thing.

Trivial example for imagination: most people probably could imagine how Hawking radiation works. But whether they have the patience to learn both enough QM and GR to really nail it in their head, that's a whole other factor.

So that seems to be an entirely spurious extra constraint, really.


2. But it gets even worse. When we move to stuff like an item being equal to your patience to find it, it doesn't even make any sense. I don't even mean as in making some logical sense or philosophical sense, it doesn't even make sense at the basic level of what those words even mean. It's not just repeating a word like "patience", it's genuine nonsense gibberish.

I mean, since "all things" in one category are supposed to be equal to that patience, it means we can just pick an item from that set and substitute it in there. Well, let's take something that's both easy to find and easy to imagine for everyone: a cat.

So, a cat must be equal to my patience to either find a cat or imagine a cat. Well... what does that even flipping mean? A cat is equal to patience... how exactly? By what definition of equality does that even make any sense?

I'm not even asking it to be true, mind you. It's just not even making sense at a semantic level.
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Which part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?

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Old 11th December 2020, 04:04 PM   #32
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Really, it's really less like just word repetition, and more like the kind of nonsense you'd get from generating sentences with some kind of Markov Chains program. As in, for the non-specialists, something that is just trained to form some probability table like, what's the probability of "equal" coming after "is" in a sentence, and then if it did pick "equal", what's the probability of the next word being "to", and so on.

Or for those of you more art inclined, it's akin to how dadaists proposed to write a novel by literally pulling random words (e.g., on scraps of paper) out of a hat. Except the Markov Chain version is slightly more advanced by working on the conditional probability based on the last word drawn, whereas a literal implementation of dadaism would only involve the probability of how many scraps with that word are (still) in the hat, vs how many words total are in the hat.

Actual Markov Chains implementations (such as Mark V. Shaney) tended to produce exactly this kind of gibberish. Stuff which at best did follow a normal sentence and paragraph structure, but didn't really mean anything. And at worst produced sentences with bizarre structures like 'noun verb noun verb noun', where the noun in the middle was both object for the first verb and subject for the second one.
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Which part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?
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Old 12th December 2020, 03:42 AM   #33
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Old 12th December 2020, 07:51 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by AlexPontik View Post
Consider the following three examples:

First example
1. I assume you are looking at a screen when you see this, and what you imagine seeing now on your screen is a subset of things in reality, or I imagined I wrote this to you...which doesn't seem to me...I have to say.
2. While you are still reading here now, what I am writing to you, behind the screen, things happen in a way you don't imagine, in order for my keyboard clicks to create this text, becomes what you see, unless
3. You have studied all of the parts of the screen you are using, and if you have spend all the time and effort in the past, to be able to imagine what happens behind the screen you are reading this text, then it seems to me you know, that the patience to do so is outside your imagination, you have to do that in reality
4. When I now imagine that I may be able to convince you of the arguments I wrote initially, are within reality, that still seems to me as I imagine that all there is is less than my imagination, and when that happens I imagine I have more patience to find them in reality, by writing a reply to you here.

What are these examples of?

The problem is you're not making clear distinctions between the imagination as a neurological process that exists in reality, the content of the imagination—things imagined—that represent things in reality to some degree (such as, I imagine you as a person typing messages in a computer), and content of the imagination that do not represent things in reality (such as, I imagine you as a purple cartoon octopus writing on giant clam shells using squid ink at the bottom of the sea).

You seem to be basing your arguments on there being some clear distinction between things in reality and things imagined. We cannot talk about reality, though. We can only talk about mental models of reality. My narrative of you as a person using a computer to access a message board is not reality any more than my narrative of a purple octopus. They're both abstract ideas represented by sequences of words.

Are there things in my imagination that do not represent what I know of reality? Clearly, yes, assuming you are not actually a role-playing octopus. Are there things in reality that don't exist in my imagination, simply because I don't know about them and haven't guessed them? Based on my past experience of having learned new things, I again say yes. So, things-in-imagination and things-in-reality are two intersecting but distinct sets of mental models.

That's distinct from my imagination itself, which must exist in reality itself or I wouldn't be able to imagine things.
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Old 12th December 2020, 10:16 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by AlexPontik View Post
so up to know, none of you understood, clear.

so it would be best for you to not spend any further time and effort in this thread, or that would be a waste of your time and effort, but what you do, is not for me to say.

I am still waiting for someone to spend time and effort to read, and think about what I wrote, and write a reply that is relevant to what is written, and not "I don't understand".

if you don't understand, go play somewhere else...
If the whole world is out to get you, it's probably on to something.
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Old 12th December 2020, 10:52 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by AlexPontik View Post
1. I assume you are looking at a screen when you see this, and what you imagine seeing now on your screen is a subset of things in reality, or I imagined I wrote this to you...which doesn't seem to me...I have to say.
"which doesn't seem to me" isn't even a complete sentence. It doesn't seem to be what exactly, to you?

That said, I fail to see why this is even relevant and for what, except in some solipsistic navel-gazing exercise. What I imagine doesn't change what is real. If I were tripping balls or having a psychotic episode, and instead of your text I saw a portal to a castle where a classmate is playing princess, and tried to enter it head first (a la Persona 4), I'd just bump my head.

Originally Posted by AlexPontik View Post
2. While you are still reading here now, what I am writing to you, behind the screen, things happen in a way you don't imagine, in order for my keyboard clicks to create this text, becomes what you see, unless
Sure, I don't try to imagine everything that everyone else is doing. I mean, for all you know, I could be typing this one-handed while jerking off to PornHub in another window, but whether you want to imagine THAT or not, is not particularly relevant to anything.

Originally Posted by AlexPontik View Post
3. You have studied all of the parts of the screen you are using, and if you have spend all the time and effort in the past, to be able to imagine what happens behind the screen you are reading this text, then it seems to me you know, that the patience to do so is outside your imagination, you have to do that in reality
What does the "the patience to do so is outside your imagination" even mean? I can sure imagine someone having the patience, even if I don't actually have it myself. In fact, you yourself are proof that you can IMAGINE someone having the patience to find out certain things. You wouldn't be writing the hypothetical, if the act described were utterly impossible for you to even imagine.

And what difference does that patience even make, anyway? Does America disappear if I don't have the patience to go check out myself that it actually exists? Or what is the implication there?

Originally Posted by AlexPontik View Post
4. When I now imagine that I may be able to convince you of the arguments I wrote initially, are within reality, that still seems to me as I imagine that all there is is less than my imagination, and when that happens I imagine I have more patience to find them in reality, by writing a reply to you here.
Again, what does that even mean? An argument can be valid, and even sound, but what does the argument being within reality even mean? That at least one person made that argument? Or?

Note that validity doesn't even involve ANYTHING from that argument being real. I could make an argument about what would be the terminal velocity of a cow-pie if cows could fly, and it might even be valid and physically correct, but that doesn't require the actual existence of a cow that can fly. An argument is ultimately arguing the correctness of an "IF x THEN y" proposition, and it can be correct even if the set of x is empty in reality.

Originally Posted by AlexPontik View Post
Second example
[... snip ...]
As was pointed out to you already, even in the message you answer to, there is a 5'th possibility: the set of things that are real (or which I could be bothered to check as real, if you insist on the "patience" part,) and the set of things I can imagine are only partially overlapping. Neither includes the other.

I can both imagine things that aren't real (e.g., Trump with tits and wings), and there are real things that I can't really imagine (e.g., in the domain of QM I kinda just have to apply the maths and not even try to vividly imagine things), and things that are both real and I can imagine (e.g., a cat.) It's that trivial.

And ignoring counter-arguments and continuing repeating the same thing one more time, won't make it either more true or more profound.

Third example
1.Pick a coin choose a side and flip it as freely as you want to live. (and after you flip it,wait for it to end up with a side facing you..)
2.After you can decide the side the coin ends up facing you, I have a question for you.
3.Why didn't you come here to tell me earlier.
4. Here's the problem and here's the solution, it seems to me you didn't because, whether you consciously understand that what happens next, happens next in reality, your unconscious part seems to me to understand it very well.[/quote]

Again, not sure what that is even supposed to say.

Being able to imagine something doesn't mean clairvoyance. I can imagine BOTH the coin landing heads up and landing tails up. Hell, I can imagine it landing on the edge, and continuing spinning on the edge for ever, Inception style, instead of ending with either face up. It doesn't mean I know which will happen.

So what is that "3.Why didn't you come here to tell me earlier." even supposed to mean or illustrate?
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Which part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?

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Old 19th December 2020, 03:53 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
What are these examples of?

The problem is you're not making clear distinctions between the imagination as a neurological process that exists in reality, the content of the imagination—things imagined—that represent things in reality to some degree (such as, I imagine you as a person typing messages in a computer), and content of the imagination that do not represent things in reality (such as, I imagine you as a purple cartoon octopus writing on giant clam shells using squid ink at the bottom of the sea).
Now, whether imagining a cartoon is different from imagination as a neurological process that exists in reality...

I am not sure when I imagine you as a cartoon in reality, imagining imagination as a neurological process that exists in reality, I can't also imagine you getting offended at reality because you don't understand reality, and look for more words to describe it than needed...

Let's see what else you will imagine here and write...

word of advice, avoid words such as "neurological" and "process" while you are imagining these words, cause...you are just imagining them as part of a neurological process that exists in reality, and the process allows you to imagine those words, but it allows also the ones who haven't heard them to imagine them, either in another language, or in another context, so use your imagination my friend.


Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
You seem to be basing your arguments on there being some clear distinction between things in reality and things imagined. We cannot talk about reality, though. We can only talk about mental models of reality. My narrative of you as a person using a computer to access a message board is not reality any more than my narrative of a purple octopus. They're both abstract ideas represented by sequences of words.
If we cannot talk about reality, there wouldn't be the word "reality" in language...
we can talk about reality with language...as we do in our history as humans...
the ones who get reality, have fun with reality, in reality, the others are trying to find the "real" words cause they are not having fun and are getting offended in reality...


re-read what I wrote I write to you plain and simple...(and let me read what you write below this...)

you can imagine writing on the keyboard (I assume since you seem to have written a reply),
because of this I can imagine, that when you yourself imagine moving your fingers, tada, they move,
I also imagine that if you imagine flying, that doesn't happen in reality for you as you came out of your mama,

but I in the end imagine that a bird, when the bird imagines it flies, well sometimes it really does so in reality.


Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Are there things in my imagination that do not represent what I know of reality? Clearly, yes, assuming you are not actually a role-playing octopus. Are there things in reality that don't exist in my imagination, simply because I don't know about them and haven't guessed them? Based on my past experience of having learned new things, I again say yes. So, things-in-imagination and things-in-reality are two intersecting but distinct sets of mental models.


That's distinct from my imagination itself, which must exist in reality itself or I wouldn't be able to imagine things.
All of those things, can be said simply as...something else than what I can imagine so...

imagination as a neurological process that exists in reality
Something else than what you can imagine, is what reality is...

because otherwise something you can imagine, is what reality is,

but, if in the end something you can imagine, is what reality is, it doesn't seem to me that you wouldn't try to imagine something else after that in reality.

And this is how the process of imagination goes for reality, imagination is free in reality to imagine, and reality is free in reality to correct the imagination if it is outside reality, and that my friend...happens in a funny way...and it doesn't seem to me you or me can or want to escape that.
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Old 19th December 2020, 04:14 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
What I imagine doesn't change what is real.
If you imagine moving your hand, it moves in reality...
If you imagine flying, you don't in reality...
If a bird imagines flying, it may fly in reality...

What you imagine doesn't change what is real, but what is real does change what you imagine, and what is real changes what you imagine throughout your entire life, if what you imagine isn't real.


Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
What does the "the patience to do so is outside your imagination" even mean? I can sure imagine someone having the patience, even if I don't actually have it myself. In fact, you yourself are proof that you can IMAGINE someone having the patience to find out certain things. You wouldn't be writing the hypothetical, if the act described were utterly impossible for you to even imagine.

And what difference does that patience even make, anyway? Does America disappear if I don't have the patience to go check out myself that it actually exists? Or what is the implication there?
Regarding patience and you, here's a summary

1.You need patience to have fun. Why?
2.You need patience to find out why. Why again?
3. Because you find this out in a funny way.
4. Sometimes it is more fun than what you can handle at that moment in your life.
5. Sometime it is less fun than what you want at that moment in your life.
6. But, when you are having a good time, it is just the right amount of fun.
7. And to find those times, it come back to the beginning my friend.
8. You need patience to have fun.

If you get agitated by me reading this ("What is this #$&(#@@# dude writing", try to imagine how much patience I have to imagine to do this...)

Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
Again, what does that even mean? An argument can be valid, and even sound, but what does the argument being within reality even mean? That at least one person made that argument? Or?

Note that validity doesn't even involve ANYTHING from that argument being real. I could make an argument about what would be the terminal velocity of a cow-pie if cows could fly, and it might even be valid and physically correct, but that doesn't require the actual existence of a cow that can fly. An argument is ultimately arguing the correctness of an "IF x THEN y" proposition, and it can be correct even if the set of x is empty in reality.
It means you need patience to have fun in reality...


Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post

Third example
1.Pick a coin choose a side and flip it as freely as you want to live. (and after you flip it,wait for it to end up with a side facing you..)
2.After you can decide the side the coin ends up facing you, I have a question for you.
3.Why didn't you come here to tell me earlier.
4. Here's the problem and here's the solution, it seems to me you didn't because, whether you consciously understand that what happens next, happens next in reality, your unconscious part seems to me to understand it very well.
Again, not sure what that is even supposed to say.
[/quote]

The third example means, that regardless of what you imagine if you imagine freely whatever you want, you don't know what happens next in reality.

The only thing you do know with certainty in reality, is that you don't know, as this repeats throughout your life, with things your imagination is not experienced enough with.

This is why you need patience to have fun in reality, so that when you don't have fun, you wait a bit to calm down, and rethink what to do.

When one is impatient, it is unlikely that one is paying attention to how one feels about something, and one's imagination may be carrying one away from reality...I think I can imagine how you can see that this last phrase is troubling even for me my friend, no?
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Old 19th December 2020, 05:05 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by AlexPontik View Post
If you imagine moving your hand, it moves in reality.
No it doesn't. I'm perfectly capable of imagining moving my hand while keeping it still.

Dave
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Old 22nd December 2020, 10:26 AM   #40
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Most of this sounds like incomprehensible gibberish to me, confusion masquerading as wisdom.

But for the little that seems occasionally to surface above the noise, it looks to me as if none would be true if the person in question is crazy or deluded or an idiot. I think any universal rule pertaining to reality and perception (and the dubious-at-best relevance of "fun") must at least take into account the numerous occasions in which one is simply wrong.
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