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7th September 2018, 12:06 PM | #481 |
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7th September 2018, 03:20 PM | #482 |
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I think they understand the distinction quite well; because the training philosophy is that weapons are supposed to be used to stop suspects from running away. It's called "compliance enforcement". There have been more extensive descriptions of it posted in various threads, including this one IIRC. Basically, it's a process for escalation of force against a non-compliant suspect, that does not allow any form of non-compliance from the suspect, and rapidly goes from verbal commands to pulling weapons, lethal or otherwise. US police are rarely taught de-escalation techniques or non-violent conflict resolution the way that many European nations teach their law enforcement personnel. |
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When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won. |
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8th September 2018, 06:40 AM | #483 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Here, some US police officers are taught by the Scottish police how deal with violence without shooting anyone;
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/12/n...dly-force.html If all US police were shown the same, the death rate would drop. |
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8th September 2018, 07:21 AM | #484 |
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OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
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8th September 2018, 07:27 AM | #485 |
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Which is why it will never happen in the USA and Americans (and tourists) need to learn to cope with cop shootings.
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8th September 2018, 12:37 PM | #486 |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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9th September 2018, 01:32 PM | #487 |
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10th September 2018, 07:02 AM | #488 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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11th September 2018, 10:23 AM | #489 |
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11th September 2018, 10:45 AM | #490 |
Not a doctor.
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
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11th September 2018, 11:28 AM | #491 |
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Arresting children for trivial stuff is not a good use of police or prosecutorial resources. The cops should take her home to her mom and explain why; if it's a continuing problem, CPS should get involved. Maybe the kid is stealing food because there's no food at home. The militarization of the police is one big problem; the criminalization of childhood pranks is another.
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11th September 2018, 11:54 AM | #492 |
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I'd say that the criminalization of children is the problem. For example, having police officers stationed at schools may seem like a good idea to people (because of their great history of success in preventing tragedies), but how would they feel if their kid got dragged off in handcuffs after a shoving match in the hall? Or, worse, and we've seen this, if their kid gets assaulted by a police officer for nonviolent acting out in a classroom, something that wouldn't be criminal for any adult?
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12th September 2018, 01:06 AM | #493 |
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12th September 2018, 01:20 AM | #494 |
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Quote:
That is one of the most unintentionally hilarious things I've read in years. Has the author of that comment ever been to Scotland I wonder? Has he ever even read any material on contemporary Scottish current affairs? Thought not. |
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"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012. |
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12th September 2018, 10:08 AM | #495 |
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And you don't think there should be any age? Jail for a six-year-old who steals a candy bar? Four-year-old? Sticky-fingered toddler?
Our legal system already codifies distinctions between adults and juveniles. We recognize distinctions between adult and juvenile thought processes. Misbehavior by an 11-year-old might require official intervention by CPS, but it shouldn't be a criminal matter. |
13th September 2018, 03:39 AM | #496 |
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Is this a poorly worded question? Otherwise, how on earth do you arrive at that conclusion from what I've written in this thread?
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13th September 2018, 07:30 AM | #497 |
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13th September 2018, 09:32 AM | #498 |
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Your response was this: That sure implies that you don't see a minimum age for criminal responsibility.
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13th September 2018, 11:21 AM | #499 |
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The problem you have here is that you are completely and utterly wrong about this, where do we go from here?
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I find your accusation deeply offensive, shame on you for disparaging me in this way simply because I have the temerity to call a thieving little **** exactly what they are. If you could take the time I would really like to know how you arrived at the conclusion that the CPS (?) should be monitoring me if I were still bringing a child up? |
13th September 2018, 11:23 AM | #500 |
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13th September 2018, 11:31 AM | #501 |
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CPS is Child Protective Services, or the equivalent under a similar name, the state or local agency that investigates abuse of children by their parents and others. Calling a child a "thieving little ****" displays a lack of compassion that no doubt reflects your personality and worldview. And we haven't heard your kid's account of his idyllic childhood with you.
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13th September 2018, 11:33 AM | #502 |
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13th September 2018, 03:33 PM | #503 |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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13th September 2018, 11:40 PM | #504 |
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I don't recall making that claim or anything remotely like it. I don't understand what you find "impressive" about something I've never said?
I was and I am under no illusions whatsoever about what my son may have got up to and in to whilst growing up. I can, however, assure you that he's no career criminal. |
13th September 2018, 11:59 PM | #505 |
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What? Is it not the case that 33 states set no minimum age of criminal responsibility and for federal crimes, the minimum age of criminal responsibility is 11? Am I wrong about that too?
You might disagree that the girl should be charged but that doesn't make me wrong, that's not how things work. Am I wrong about the fact that she's a thief? Given that the girl's own family admitted she was shoplifting and she had about $50 worth of goods in her backpack when she was arrested it seems that I'm bang on the mark. That's not an opportunistic candy bar hurriedly stuffed into a back pocket, it's outright, deliberate and targeted theft. Please tell me how I'm wrong. Now you might also be appalled and distraught, like others, about the fact that I called her a little **** (you realise that you may not be parsing the right pejorative here) but again that's opinion and it's based on her actions as described previously. You don't get to set the rules. I think you are using the words completely, totally and wrong, wrongly. |
14th September 2018, 12:24 AM | #506 |
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It is the Crown Prosecution Service over here so you might excuse my confusion. I won't hold my breath though, since you seem to have an appetite for a fight.
I notice you didn't answer my request for clarification as to why you "hope CPS is keeping an eye on [my] family."
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It's quite the story you're concocting there. |
14th September 2018, 12:38 AM | #507 |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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14th September 2018, 01:18 AM | #508 |
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What is it that you are disputing?
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Seriously? You want me to start imagining scenarios you've made up involving my son? This isn't going to achieve anything and won't advance this particular derail. You are desperate to show that I'm inconsistent when I've made it clear that I'm not in this regard. You are that desperate to trip me up you are inventing little stories about a grown man you've never met back when he was a little boy. If my son was a thieving little **** then that is exactly how I would refer to him when discussing him with others. You can't argue that his actions in your fantasy would not be thieving, so it seems you are having trouble with the masked portion of my description. You'll need to take that up with mods and the auto censor as I'm not about to fall foul there. I would say that the censored word is very, very much at the lower end of a pejorative profanity. I'm amused at how you guys have turned this thread about the behaviour of US police officers in to my imagined abuse of my son based on me calling a thieving little **** and thieving little ****. Crack on. |
14th September 2018, 11:22 AM | #509 |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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14th September 2018, 11:48 PM | #510 |
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I brought the subject of my offspring and my parenting abilities up in this thread? Are you sure about that? Maybe you should look back at the exchanges herein and get back to me.
What you have done by making this ridiculously incorrect assertion is prove that you are trolling at the lowest level.
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"she's a thieving little ****" = " I hope you're not a parent, and if you are, I hope CPS is keeping an eye on your family." I felt I should put the authors feeble mind at ease and explain that my contribution to society, in that regard, had worked out quite well. This seemed to irk you for reasons best known to yourself and if you read what I wrote about him as me asserting he is a "paragon of virtue" (someone who is the very best, a particular moral excellence) you might want to give me some evidence of that or explain your reasoning, if you might. Otherwise, I fall back on my previous accusation. If the fact that my son has grown up to be a well adjusted, contributing member of society, bothers you so much (and it clearly does, what with your negative fantasies about him and the fact you're flogging a dead horse) then you need to ask yourself why that might be? Please don't reflect your inadequacies, whatever they might be, onto me or mine. I hope you get better soon. |
5th October 2018, 01:06 AM | #511 |
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Bump
ETA: Bumping to provide context to this thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=332176 so folk don't have to go hunting for it. |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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5th October 2018, 01:57 AM | #512 |
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And in Baltimore news:
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5th October 2018, 12:20 PM | #513 |
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-45739335
"It was shortly after 05:00 when three West Milwaukee police officers broke into the home of 22-year-old Adam Trammell to find him naked and bewildered, standing in his bathtub as water from the shower ran down his body. Adam, who had been diagnosed with schizophrenia, was having some form of breakdown. A neighbour had called 911 to report that she had seen him naked in the corridor, talking about the devil... The officers then fired their Tasers at him 15 times, administering long, painful electric shocks as he screamed and writhed in the bathtub. Then more officers arrived, and after dragging him, still naked, from his apartment, they held him down and he was injected with sedatives - midazolam at first, and then ketamine. Moments later, Adam stopped breathing. He was taken to hospital and pronounced dead soon after arrival. The date was 25 May 2017." "Already in 2018, across the US, at least 136 people with a disability are known to have been killed by police officers, according to a database maintained by the Washington Post and analysis of local media reports." And on it continues with no signs of abatement. |
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5th October 2018, 12:32 PM | #514 |
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7th October 2018, 07:24 PM | #515 | |||
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Interesting view from the other side of the thin blue line....
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It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) |
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7th October 2018, 07:38 PM | #516 |
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7th October 2018, 09:33 PM | #517 |
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It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) |
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8th October 2018, 11:50 AM | #518 |
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Just wanted to tell him to keep his hands on the wheel and concentrate on driving. If talking on a mobile phone (cell phone) is equivalent to being inebriated then so must blogging whilst driving.
I guess the key message is where he says he nearly shot a completely innocent man and would have been justified in doing so because he thought he might have been going for a gun. |
8th October 2018, 11:56 AM | #519 |
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The report
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-45739335 is headlined 'Don't shoot I'm disabled' in essence it points out that whilst the news has focused on people of colour (color) being shot whilst innocent; the risk is even greater if you are disabled. The proportion of disabled people shot (or otherwise killed) by police would seem disproportionate to their involvement in crime. The poor man with Down's who died during restraint is even sadder. The lack of apology by or investigation of the police forces involved is also depressing. |
8th October 2018, 01:24 PM | #520 |
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