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15th December 2018, 04:21 AM | #601 |
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15th December 2018, 07:12 AM | #602 |
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15th December 2018, 07:20 AM | #603 |
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Despite being the most unionized profession in America, only 34.5% of people in the "Protective Services Occupations" belong to a union.
On a national level the, oddly named, International Union of Police Associations is the largest police union, claiming over 100,000 members out of the 750,000-850,000 uniform law enforcement officers in the US. I'm assuming state and local unions make up the rest and unions are certainly more and less popular in certain areas. For instance Patrolmen's Benevolent Association of the City of New York represents 24,000 of the city's 36,000 officers. |
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15th December 2018, 05:20 PM | #604 |
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16th December 2018, 03:40 AM | #605 |
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16th December 2018, 03:59 AM | #606 |
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So 21% is 'most'
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16th December 2018, 06:19 AM | #607 |
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16th December 2018, 01:59 PM | #608 |
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16th December 2018, 03:26 PM | #609 |
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16th December 2018, 03:28 PM | #610 |
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16th December 2018, 09:09 PM | #611 |
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I misspoke, not the same union. Just unions:
https://www.thebalancecareers.com/wh...oin-one-974885 https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...street/383258/ And as far as internal cultures go, it can be like night and day. Much of it has to do with leadership; how command supports and backs their patrol officers, or if they throw them under the bus at the first sign of trouble. Plus you get what you pay for. The San Francisco PD and the California Highway Patrol don't have a lot questionable conduct problems, and a big part of the reason is that an SFPD officer starts at around $83,000 a year, and a CHP starts at $74,700 (both after probationary periods). Both SFPD and CHP officers can make around $100,000 per year with overtime, and there is always overtime. The money alone is a great reason to keep it by the book, plus both departments have competitive cultures that drive most of their officers to excel. Contrast those salaries with the Philadelphia PD ($51 to $64 thousand), Chicago PD ($57,794 to $62,964), and Cleveland PD ($45,904 to $58,620). Look up citizen complaints against the police in these cities some time. I'm not arguing that law enforcement can't do a better job, I'm just pointing out that cites with bad cops are run by bad politicians. |
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16th December 2018, 11:30 PM | #612 |
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16th December 2018, 11:32 PM | #613 |
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17th December 2018, 03:23 AM | #614 |
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17th December 2018, 06:01 AM | #615 |
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17th December 2018, 08:36 AM | #616 |
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17th December 2018, 08:41 AM | #617 |
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You need to adjust those numbers for the cost of living. 100k in SF is not much, probably relatively less than 50K in philly actually. The CHP can do alright on that in some parts of the state though.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ies-in-the-us/ Median income in SF, 100k+; Philly, 40k-. So, actually cops pay is fairly similar, actually a bit less in SF. |
17th December 2018, 08:44 AM | #618 |
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You don't have to live in SF, to work in SF. In fact about 160,000 people do just that.
ETA: and holy crap Albuquerque PD officer are doing well. They make $29 an hour after 1 year in the force, in a town where you can get a house for about $120/sq foot. The paper had an article about a patrol officer (not even a sergeant) who made over $200,000 in a year with OT, bonus and merit pay. |
17th December 2018, 09:27 AM | #619 |
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As a counter-example, I submit the Seattle PD. One of the highest paid in the nation, with base salary starting for rookies at $77,000, and veterans with five years on the job making $90,000. On top of that, they have one of the best benefits packages of not only any PD, but any industry, and that's not including the overtime pay most officers get plenty of opportunity to accrue (eg. any time there is a major event requiring crowd control or traffic re-direction, even coordinators are required to hire off-duty police officers to assist). In 2011, the Seattle PD was cited by the US Department of Justice as the most violent and corrupt in the nation. Subsequent attempts at reform have been effectively quashed, suppressed, or minimized by the local police union. No substantial improvements have been made since then, and multiple police chiefs have been in and out of the office since then. Obviously, there are much more important and influential factors at play than monetary compensation.
Quote:
With the increasing strength of the police unions, there's often not a lot that politicians can do to rein in bad officers or reform bad departments. |
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17th December 2018, 10:06 AM | #620 |
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Wrong thread oops.
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17th December 2018, 01:20 PM | #621 |
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In my area there is a city that is three miles long and a mile wide, and while there are a few homes there the place is a combination of light industry and big-box retail. The police department is small, but the officers average $120,000 per year. They're not the best cops either, and two years ago they gun down a couple who had been on a local crime spree in a parking lot on a busy shopping day. The couple had it coming, but they should have made the arrest attempt in a safer location.
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17th December 2018, 07:23 PM | #622 |
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18th December 2018, 02:34 AM | #623 |
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18th December 2018, 02:36 AM | #624 |
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18th December 2018, 07:52 AM | #625 |
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Sure you can but the entire SF Bay area has a much are cost of living than most everywhere else in the country. Its misleading to to quote pay without mentioning that.
Also, I'm an economic refuge from the Bay Area, I fully understand that you can commute for hours a day to get to your job in the City. |
18th December 2018, 10:15 AM | #626 |
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18th December 2018, 12:10 PM | #627 |
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19th December 2018, 01:26 AM | #628 |
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Could you spell out that logic? The US rate is high among developed countries and there is an idea about why that is.
That the Brazilian rate is even higher is interesting, but there's no logical necessity that both rates are high for the same reason. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but it's not clear to me how you think the rate in Brazil sheds light on what's going on in the US. |
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19th December 2018, 05:30 AM | #629 |
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19th December 2018, 06:03 AM | #630 |
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19th December 2018, 06:06 AM | #631 |
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19th December 2018, 08:19 AM | #632 |
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I do but its too late.
It should have read, "The entire SF Bay Area has a much higher cost of living than most of the rest of the US" So regardless of where SF cops live, 100k/year doesn't mean what it does elsewhere and pay is insufficient to explain why they might be less prone to violence than other cops. On other topics. Baylor was correct, 22% is the most because that is more than any other nation. Some of you seem to think it means majority or something similar, it doesn't it just means the greatest amount. That could be 1% if everyone else gets .5%. |
19th December 2018, 08:38 AM | #633 |
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No because he didn't say 'the most' he said 'most' ... in fact it wasn't him that originally made the claim anyway but the original claim was that 'most emigrants want to go to the US' that's simply factually incorrect.
Because when you say 'most X are Y' then yes... it means the majority. Not the largest number of X are Y compared to P Q and Z. In fact given that the number is 21% the correct statement would be 'most emigrants do NOT want to go the US but to other countries' |
19th December 2018, 09:19 AM | #634 |
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19th December 2018, 10:51 PM | #635 |
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I highly disagree that Nessie laid out an "idea." His posts in this thread are nothing but a hodge-podge of nonsensical statements that he's frantically trying to make sense out of now that he's been called out on it. Anyone can make the stupid argument of "holding [bad thing] in high esteem." Just watch. The reason why Muslim rape gangs get away with rape in the UK is because Muslim rape gangs are held in high esteem in the UK (use the passive voice it makes you sound smarter for some reason.) Golly! I'm such worldly skeptic. I know more about the UK than UKians!
Earlier in this thread I put a forth a convincing argument that there are many similarities between the US and Brazil. And some of these similarities are likely responsible for the high levels of police violence of both countries. It's makes more sense to compare the US to Brazil than to Norway (lol). But that wouldn't give the empathetic thread starter the attention and validation he was looking for. Part of the reason I brought up Brazil to show Nessie was feigning outrage and had no concern for victims of police shootings in any country. He reads crap websites like "theconverastion" and ends up thinking he has a nuanced understanding of the world. I was going to elaborate further on the comparisons between US and Brazil but it's obvious to everyone Nessie has no interest in his chosen topic of discussion and is using victims of police violence for his histrionics. He never responded to my more salient points and instead imagined something I said then started arguing with himself. If you have any further questions you can read my thought-provoking posts on Brazil in this thread and reply to those. It's far more interesting than lame-brain canned answers like "holding the gun in high esteem." |
19th December 2018, 11:06 PM | #636 |
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20th December 2018, 12:18 AM | #637 |
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20th December 2018, 12:20 AM | #638 |
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20th December 2018, 12:26 AM | #639 |
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