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Old 22nd April 2017, 03:24 PM   #41
John Jones
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I agree with much of this. However, it used to be true that diabetics were told to avoid fruit, especially bananas, as being high in sugar. Recent studies show that actually fruit has a high (or was it low? - but anyway positive <g>) glycaemic index, plus it has fibre if you eat whole fruit, thus you don't get the same sugar spike and the subsequent plunge, as you would with pure sugar.

[...]!

Do you have any evidence for any of your feelings about this matter?
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Old 22nd April 2017, 03:33 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
At the beginning, I had to keep a log of all the calories, and restricted it to 2500 per day and very strictly made sure I had enough protein for the exercise I was getting. Hard to say which was which, but near the end I had to go up to 4000 per day or risk my stomach getting smaller, which my doctors did not want for other health reasons. I ignored the advice, lost more weight and stomach size anyway because I was obsessed and spent last xmass eve to new years in the hospital because of it, but now I'm back, exercizing a bit less and 3500 calories per day, not as strict about it but still a little obsessive
completely offtopic, is there a thing that measures protein against excercise?
that would be so useful.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 03:44 PM   #43
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I couldnt find anything really scientific, but everyone kept saying 1 gram per pound of ideal bodyweight. I figured protein was probably better for me than fat so I probably overdid it
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Old 22nd April 2017, 08:42 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
I documented a bit how in my later years after not riding anymore how I turned into a butterball, wider than I was tall, but also the last two years where I came back down to an OK size (170, from 270) and am stronger now than ever before in my life, and riding again. Now I find myself again, hitting the reduced price/stale rack at the local stores and buying whatever is there on the way to the skatepark, which is often donuts or bread, probably unhealthy stuff, but I still am losing weight unless I dont ride for a day.
I never did BMX but one of my favorite holiday activities is urban bike exploration. It draws on core muscles plus the whole haunch apparatus, and a lot of calories are expended balancing and pedaling. Also in a city it's often necessary to carry the bike up stairs or walk up, and sometimes down, steep hills.

In Rome, in just 5 days I lost a pants size (with pizza, gelato and beer for dinner). London was wonderful but only at 4 a.m. Anything later than that I'm afraid muscle memory will get me killed as I consistently look in the wrong direction - over my left shoulder as opposed to right - before crossing a street.

It was so good to be able to enjoy food and know I was maintaining a calorie deficit. Cities full of bakeries offer tastier options to stale Twinkies, but when your body needs the fuel just about any carb will do. You're not eating them all day is the critical factor. Time spent doing your favorite exercise is an enjoyable alternative to eating.

There are no healthy vending-machine snacks. Peanuts, maybe. Beef jerky. Genetically we are programmed to crave fat, salt and carbohydrates. That Guardian article was a great piece - conventional wisdom (aka common sense) is just inaccurate, sometimes.

Last edited by Minoosh; 22nd April 2017 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 09:22 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
I couldnt find anything really scientific, but everyone kept saying 1 gram per pound of ideal bodyweight. I figured protein was probably better for me than fat so I probably overdid it
That sounds high. My mom apparently overdid it on protein shakes (6 a day, 15 g per). It was showing up as an elevated liver enzyme. Ninety g was affecting her liver function and she weighs a lot more than 90 pounds. She's 92, though, that might affect things. Also, she was getting meals that included protein.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 10:22 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
That sounds high.
It's not.

Quote:
My mom apparently overdid it on protein shakes (6 a day, 15 g per). It was showing up as an elevated liver enzyme. Ninety g was affecting her liver function and she weighs a lot more than 90 pounds.
The fact that certain compounds were elevated does NOT necessarily mean that liver function was compromised. For example:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2291230/
"Muscular exercise can cause highly pathological liver function tests in healthy men"

Liver enzyme tests do not directly measure the function of the liver. Various liver pathologies can lead to results outside the "normal" range, but so can other factors unrelated to liver pathology, and they aren't all even bad. Unless there was some symptom beyond the enzyme tests, I would not assume that there was anything wrong with her liver or her protein intake.
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Old 23rd April 2017, 11:48 AM   #47
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I kept testing weird on my liver last year, and I told my doctor I had tons of added protein, i wonder if that's what did it
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Old 23rd April 2017, 01:16 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
The fact that certain compounds were elevated does NOT necessarily mean that liver function was compromised.
It was an anomaly, which is what caught his eye. She has been "training" in PT with emphasis on working the legs and the core. It's just twice a week but she is getting stronger.

An anomalous result justifies further procedures, office visits or referrals to specialists. I'm skeptical that all this is necessary, but the visits are exercise in themselves. Those office doors are heavy and generally I don't hold them open for her. The stuff she can do if pushed by a trainer surprises me.

She gets plenty of dietary protein and would drink 12 of those shakes a day if you left two 6-packs on the counter. I just take them out 2 at a time now.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:39 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
It was an anomaly, which is what caught his eye.
Sure. But does he know that exercise can spike those levels? Not all doctors do.

Quote:
She has been "training" in PT with emphasis on working the legs and the core. It's just twice a week but she is getting stronger.
Excellent. For seniors, strength is the limiting factor on most physical activities. The more you can maintain strength as you get old, the higher your quality of life will be. Even balance tends to become strength-limited in older adults, and as I'm sure you know, preventing falls becomes pretty important.

Quote:
She gets plenty of dietary protein and would drink 12 of those shakes a day if you left two 6-packs on the counter. I just take them out 2 at a time now.
12 is overkill, but you might want to give her more than 2 a day. As you get older, your body becomes less efficient at using protein for muscle synthesis, so seniors can actually use quite a bit of protein in order to maintain or gain muscle mass.

And there's no real evidence that high protein intake is bad for you. There are really three reasons to avoid excessive protein consumption. The first is to avoid excessive caloric intake, but it doesn't sound like that's a problem here. The second is that if you're consuming more protein than your body needs for protein synthesis (muscle and otherwise), then you're just going to metabolize the rest of it for calories. That's not bad in and of itself, but this can up-regulate the protein metabolism pathways. If you're consuming lots of excess protein and then suddenly you can't (you run out of shakes, for example), then at least for a short time your body is still going to try to metabolize lots of protein, which isn't good when you don't have excess. And the third reason is that past a certain point, you aren't going to get more benefit, so you're just going to be wasting money buying and eating high-protein food.

Where exactly the cutoff happens for your mother I couldn't really say. Obviously it depends a lot on her diet. But if she's really training, then she should be getting a lot of protein, probably more than most people would expect.

Oh, and here's a nice resource for getting stronger when you're older:
https://www.amazon.com/Barbell-Presc...dp/0982522770/
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Last edited by Ziggurat; 24th April 2017 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 25th April 2017, 08:39 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
He has some ideas about insulin that are contradicted by actual research.

I made some references to refutations in a previous thread (also started by you):
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10803122&postcount=23
Oh man!!! Didn't realize that was the same guy! Thanks, I remember this, you are awesome!
Here are a couple of posts on a blog that I had not run across before:
https://thescienceofnutrition.wordpress.com/2012/06/16/gary-taubes-is-a-blowhard/
https://thescienceofnutrition.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/good-calories-bad-calories-a-critical-review/

I only read those two but it looks like he has a bunch of other posts reviewing specific chapters of GCBC. I ran across references to those two posts on the comment section of a review by Harriet Hall of TheCase Against Sugar.

This quote from the blowhard post made me laugh:
Quote:
Way down at the bottom of the blog post Taubes admits a correction to an earlier version of the post. Evidently he instructed Dr. Willett to go read a chapter in a textbook titled Modern Epidemiology and learn how the “best epidemiologists” conduct real research. As it turns out Dr. Willett actually wrote the chapter in question. I won’t add any commentary here. Just let that bit of delicious schadenfreude wash over you like a warm bath.
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Old 27th April 2017, 01:39 AM   #51
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Freakonomics just did an episode on sugar, possible regulation and a skeptic's reaction...

http://www.wnyc.org/story/theres-war-sugar-justified/
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Old 27th April 2017, 06:02 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
You will what?
Loose weight - means weight that isn't tight!!!!!
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Old 27th April 2017, 06:05 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
No, you damn well won't. You'll lose weight.
But, can you find it again!!! And, completely unrelated a local reporter just said "on route thrifty." She meant 50 which is a major East-West route here in Florida (and is called Colonial Drive here in Orlando) but, honestly she said thrifty!!!!!
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Old 27th April 2017, 08:13 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
If you eat a brick, you will probably get the mother of all constipations.
Either that or you will **** a brick. Once you do, you will lose the extra weight.
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Old 29th April 2017, 01:30 AM   #55
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Yeah, I feel like fiber has something to do with it.

A few years ago, I worked a job that had me on my feet most of the day, lifting 10-15 pound objects often.

I used to eat about three vegetable sandwiches (with hummus or vegan mayo) for lunch. And a piece of fruit. And an entire 16-ounce chocolate bar.

I ate a lot of avocados.

I was as skinny as I have ever been in my life.

Granted, the chocolate didn't have fiber in it, but almost everything else did.
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Old 30th April 2017, 12:21 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by stargazer0519 View Post
Yeah, I feel like fiber has something to do with it.

A few years ago, I worked a job that had me on my feet most of the day, lifting 10-15 pound objects often.

I used to eat about three vegetable sandwiches (with hummus or vegan mayo) for lunch. And a piece of fruit. And an entire 16-ounce chocolate bar.

I ate a lot of avocados.

I was as skinny as I have ever been in my life.

Granted, the chocolate didn't have fiber in it, but almost everything else did.
Sure, the fiber.
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