IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 8th June 2020, 07:39 PM   #1
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 28,964
The aftermath of riots

I think this aspect of the consequences of rioting should get some attention.

Neighborhoods where stores were destroyed become food deserts overnight
Quote:
In many neighborhoods that have seen looting and vandalism over the past week, residents are now left with few — if any — grocery stores, pharmacies and other essential businesses. Which is made even harder by the fact that lots of stores are also closed because of the pandemic.

There’s a 6-mile long commercial corridor in South Minneapolis called Lake Street, and it has been destroyed.

“We no longer have pharmacies in our community,” said ZoeAna Martinez, who works for the Lake Street Council, a business association. “We no longer have gas stations as well. Our largest grocery stores are also gone,” Martinez said. “Right now, our community, we live in a food desert, which happened overnight.”

In Minneapolis and Saint Paul, hundreds of businesses have been damaged or burned to the ground. The same has happened in cities around the country.

“Pretty much half of a city block completely burned down Sunday night,” said Bea Rider, interim executive director of the New Kensington Community Development Corp., a neighborhood group in Philadelphia. Pharmacies, bodegas, clothing stores, check-cashing spots — all gone. And these losses hurt certain groups more than others.

“Low-income families who are underbanked, so they rely on check-cashing businesses, they’re definitely feeling a pinch,” Rider said.
It's especially hard for people who don't have cars to drive to a supermarket somewhere else and the elderly.


Manufacturer that burned as Minneapolis protests turned violent plans to relocate from city
Quote:
A Minneapolis manufacturing company has decided to leave the city, with the company's owner saying he can't trust public officials who allowed his plant to burn during the recent riots. The move will cost the city about 50 jobs.

"They don't care about my business," said Kris Wyrobek, president and owner of 7-Sigma Inc., which has operated since 1987 at 2843 26th Av. in south Minneapolis. "They didn't protect our people. We were all on our own."

Wyrobek said the plant, which usually operates until 11 p.m., shut down about four hours early on the first night of the riots because he wanted to keep his workers out of harm's way. He said a production supervisor and a maintenance worker who live in the neighborhood became alarmed when fire broke out at the $30 million Midtown Corner affordable housing apartment complex that was under construction next door.

"The fire engine was just sitting there," Wyrobek said, "but they wouldn't do anything."
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 07:47 PM   #2
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 68,744
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
It's especially hard for people who don't have cars to drive to a supermarket somewhere else and the elderly.
Why don't they just Instacart cake?
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 08:12 PM   #3
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
This is an issue when there are riots. The Fie department won't respond unless an area is secure.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 08:23 PM   #4
Regnad Kcin
Penultimate Amazing
 
Regnad Kcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The old Same place
Posts: 11,138
I’ve always wanted to work in the fie department.
__________________
My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.
Regnad Kcin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 09:05 PM   #5
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
 
shemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Where the Old Man of the Mountain used to stand
Posts: 58,585
Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
I’ve always wanted to work in the fie department.
Having worked in all four departments (Fee, Fie, Fo and Fum) I can unequivocally state from experience that the Fie Department is clearly the worst of the four.
__________________
Being the victim of genocidal atrocities does not give you free reign to commit your own genocidal atrocities.

When Republican politicians were young, they were the kids who watched James Bond movies and said "I want to grow up to be just like [insert name of villain here]."
shemp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 05:44 AM   #6
Distracted1
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: No longer Philadelphia :(
Posts: 5,770
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I think this aspect of the consequences of rioting should get some attention.

Neighborhoods where stores were destroyed become food deserts overnight

It's especially hard for people who don't have cars to drive to a supermarket somewhere else and the elderly.


Manufacturer that burned as Minneapolis protests turned violent plans to relocate from city
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Detroit
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 05:48 AM   #7
TurkeysGhost
Penultimate Amazing
 
TurkeysGhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
It's a damn shame that it had to come to this. Blame lies at the feet of those that made peaceful change impossible.

For all the hand-wringing about the riots and violence, we are seeing in real time that a week of disorder produces more positive results than decades of polite discontent. It's a high price to pay, but a necessary one.
__________________
Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

Last edited by TurkeysGhost; 9th June 2020 at 05:49 AM.
TurkeysGhost is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 05:53 AM   #8
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,726
Yep. Another simple solution - the cops should not be violent goon squads. It’s remarkable how obvious it is, yet white conservatives call *us* thugs and support oppression for black folks, while screeching about their own freedom.
Mumbles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 10:53 AM   #9
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,425
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Having worked in all four departments (Fee, Fie, Fo and Fum) I can unequivocally state from experience that the Fie Department is clearly the worst of the four.
I haven't worked Fie, but when I worked Fo, people kept confusing it with the Foe Department. It caused... problems.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 10:56 AM   #10
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,425
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's a damn shame that it had to come to this. Blame lies at the feet of those that made peaceful change impossible.
Peaceful change was never actually impossible.

Quote:
For all the hand-wringing about the riots and violence, we are seeing in real time that a week of disorder produces more positive results than decades of polite discontent.
It's a little early to be declaring any of the changes actually positive, if what you care about is results and not appearance. And given the negative results we know for certain are negative, what makes you think that any of this has been a net positive?
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 11:09 AM   #11
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Peaceful change was never actually impossible.

It's a little early to be declaring any of the changes actually positive, if what you care about is results and not appearance. And given the negative results we know for certain are negative, what makes you think that any of this has been a net positive?
Did you mean "possible"?

I desperately wish that the fires and the looting didn't take place. But I'm unconvinced that it wasn't inevitable that this bomb was going to go off. There have been too many George Floyds, Rodney Kings, Ahmoud Arberry's. There comes a point when a boiler blows when the pressure is ignored.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 11:24 AM   #12
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,425
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Did you mean "possible"?
No, I did not.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 11:34 AM   #13
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 53,184
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Did you mean "possible"?

I desperately wish that the fires and the looting didn't take place. But I'm unconvinced that it wasn't inevitable that this bomb was going to go off. There have been too many George Floyds, Rodney Kings, Ahmoud Arberry's. There comes a point when a boiler blows when the pressure is ignored.
Also assaulting and tear gassing the peaceful protests is a fairly effective means at kicking off riots.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 12:28 PM   #14
Venom
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 6,332
It's the opportunists. They just needed some event, any event to be able to loot and burn and in a few cases the past week, even murder.

I'm convinced that there are rioters who responded directly to police aggression and assault and there are those who merely used that as cover to commit crimes in the corner.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 12:43 PM   #15
Distracted1
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: No longer Philadelphia :(
Posts: 5,770
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
It's the opportunists. They just needed some event, any event to be able to loot and burn and in a few cases the past week, even murder.

I'm convinced that there are rioters who responded directly to police aggression and assault and there are those who merely used that as cover to commit crimes in the corner.
Of course.
The opportunists provided an object lesson to many people living in the cities that says: "look who is right here ready to abandon civilization as soon as the police are unable to respond".

Coupled with the city leaders saying: "we are going to further restrict and defund the actions of the police"

This recipe has been made before. It is a "white flight soufflé "
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 12:59 PM   #16
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No, I did not.
That's your opinion. One would wish that those things wouldn't have happened. But I don't think peaceful protests with reactionary oppressors is very realistic.

Like my father use to say, "wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets full the fastest".
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 02:10 PM   #17
Distracted1
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: No longer Philadelphia :(
Posts: 5,770
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
That's your opinion. One would wish that those things wouldn't have happened. But I don't think peaceful protests with reactionary oppressors is very realistic.

Like my father use to say, "wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets full the fastest".
My dad used that one too. I have honored the proud tradition with my own.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 02:53 PM   #18
Giz
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,709
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
That's your opinion. One would wish that those things wouldn't have happened. But I don't think peaceful protests with reactionary oppressors is very realistic.
".
Hasn’t Minneapolis been Dem controlled for 40 years and the state for 90 years?
Giz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 03:00 PM   #19
Cabbage
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Peaceful change was never actually impossible.



Given that right wing media and the GOP in general have a history of rejecting peaceful protests of police racism and brutality, how did you envision peaceful change actually being realized? One day cops just decide to stop beating black people?
Cabbage is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 03:20 PM   #20
Giz
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,709
Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Given that right wing media and the GOP in general have a history of rejecting peaceful protests of police racism and brutality, how did you envision peaceful change actually being realized? One day cops just decide to stop beating black people?
Once again, Hasn’t Minneapolis been Dem controlled for 40 years and the state for 90 years?
Giz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 03:22 PM   #21
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Hasn’t Minneapolis been Dem controlled for 40 years and the state for 90 years?
And your point is?

I'm not sure that is true. But let's say it is. My question, is what does that have to with the police?

The city of Seattle is dominated by Democrats...well sort of. There are no party affiliation for city positions. But I know for a fact, the police departments themselves are a bastion of neanderthal Republicans who will do anything to keep flexing their muscle.

Problems with overzealous police and systemic racism plague cities from coast to coast.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 03:36 PM   #22
Giz
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,709
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
And your point is?

I'm not sure that is true. But let's say it is. My question, is what does that have to with the police?

The city of Seattle is dominated by Democrats...well sort of. There are no party affiliation for city positions. But I know for a fact, the police departments themselves are a bastion of neanderthal Republicans who will do anything to keep flexing their muscle.

Problems with overzealous police and systemic racism plague cities from coast to coast.
If the majority of state, city council and mayor positions are dem held and have been for several decades... why have they not appointed police chiefs in line with their goals? Why blame the GOP for Minneapolis woes? (Note - the gop May be to blame elsewhere)
Giz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 03:50 PM   #23
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 25,863
Originally Posted by Giz View Post
If the majority of state, city council and mayor positions are dem held and have been for several decades... why have they not appointed police chiefs in line with their goals? Why blame the GOP for Minneapolis woes? (Note - the gop May be to blame elsewhere)
Indeed, the blame for the systematic racism may lay more squarely at the feet of the police than any one politician or political party. But at this moment only one political party is actively defending that racism.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 03:56 PM   #24
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 60,375
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's a damn shame that it had to come to this. Blame lies at the feet of those that made peaceful change impossible.

For all the hand-wringing about the riots and violence, we are seeing in real time that a week of disorder produces more positive results than decades of polite discontent. It's a high price to pay, but a necessary one.
Sorry, but it was the peacful protestors who go the job done, not the rioters and looters.
if anything,the rioters and the looters hurt getting out the message.
Your casual scceptance of the riots as necessary is pretty scary.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 04:06 PM   #25
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,425
Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Given that right wing media and the GOP in general have a history of rejecting peaceful protests of police racism and brutality, how did you envision peaceful change actually being realized? One day cops just decide to stop beating black people?
Cops are controlled at the local level. Minneapolis has been Democrat controlled for decades. Blaming the GOP for Minneapolis cops is delusional.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 04:07 PM   #26
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
Originally Posted by Giz View Post
If the majority of state, city council and mayor positions are dem held and have been for several decades... why have they not appointed police chiefs in line with their goals? Why blame the GOP for Minneapolis woes? (Note - the gop May be to blame elsewhere)
That comes from a misunderstanding of the power in police forces. The Police Guilds and the courts are where the real power is. And whether they are Democrats or Republicans or whatever, the real pressure is to keep the general population happy not the minorities.

A cop on the street can beat up up a citizen and almost nothing can be done about it unless it is blatant. My best friend is an FTO in Seattle. That's Field Training Officer for us civilians. He tells me it is borderline impossible to fire a police officer after they complete their first year on the force. And there is tremendous pressure to ignore problems with bad cops because of the cost of training them.

I'm a big believer in unions, but I'm a strong believer that the police unions only care about their members.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 04:07 PM   #27
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 60,375
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Cops are controlled at the local level. Minneapolis has been Democrat controlled for decades. Blaming the GOP for Minneapolis cops is delusional.
Deflect, Deflect, Deflect.
Only thing the Trumpers have left.
Nice to ginore all of Trump's inflammatory statements.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 04:08 PM   #28
TurkeysGhost
Penultimate Amazing
 
TurkeysGhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Sorry, but it was the peacful protestors who go the job done, not the rioters and looters.
if anything,the rioters and the looters hurt getting out the message.
Your casual scceptance of the riots as necessary is pretty scary.
It is wanton lawbreaking that has forced the issue.

Demonstrators breaking the law and violating curfew. Demonstrators breaking the law and refusing orders to disperse. Demonstrators breaking the law and burning the 3rd precinct to the ground. Demonstrators breaking the law and standing up to rampantly violent and unaccountable police.

Feckless libs will claim that things need to change, but wrings their hands about the means necessary to make it happen.
__________________
Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

Last edited by TurkeysGhost; 9th June 2020 at 04:09 PM.
TurkeysGhost is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 04:09 PM   #29
Cabbage
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by Giz View Post
If the majority of state, city council and mayor positions are dem held and have been for several decades... why have they not appointed police chiefs in line with their goals? Why blame the GOP for Minneapolis woes? (Note - the gop May be to blame elsewhere)

I'm blaming the GOP for their agenda of minimizing the peaceful protests of Colin Kaepernick et al. Allow me to paraphrase, "How can there be a peaceful solution when (at least previously) a significant group (the GOP) refused to even acknowledge there was a problem?"

Now: Is that simplified enough to allow your comprehension?
Cabbage is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 04:10 PM   #30
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Cops are controlled at the local level. Minneapolis has been Democrat controlled for decades. Blaming the GOP for Minneapolis cops is delusional.
I don't blame the Minneapolis GOP for bad Minnesota cops. I do blame the GOP for siding with the police today when it is obvious that the police are a problem.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 04:14 PM   #31
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 60,375
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't blame the Minneapolis GOP for bad Minnesota cops. I do blame the GOP for siding with the police today when it is obvious that the police are a problem.
This.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 04:18 PM   #32
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 60,375
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It is wanton lawbreaking that has forced the issue.

Demonstrators breaking the law and violating curfew. Demonstrators breaking the law and refusing orders to disperse. Demonstrators breaking the law and burning the 3rd precinct to the ground. Demonstrators breaking the law and standing up to rampantly violent and unaccountable police.

Feckless libs will claim that things need to change, but wrings their hands about the means necessary to make it happen.
Ah yes, 'Necessary Revolutoinary Action"
Pleae explain how looting a small business is some kind of gloriou act of revolution.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 04:24 PM   #33
Giz
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,709
Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
I'm blaming the GOP for their agenda of minimizing the peaceful protests of Colin Kaepernick et al. Allow me to paraphrase, "How can there be a peaceful solution when (at least previously) a significant group (the GOP) refused to even acknowledge there was a problem?"

Now: Is that simplified enough to allow your comprehension?
Reform of The Minneapolis police is nothing to do with the GOP. It’s a dem mayor, with a dem city council, with a dem state Legislature with a Dem governor. Why wasn’t it fixed? Note: the answer cannot be “GOP”.
Giz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 04:25 PM   #34
TurkeysGhost
Penultimate Amazing
 
TurkeysGhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Ah yes, 'Necessary Revolutoinary Action"
Pleae explain how looting a small business is some kind of gloriou act of revolution.
I don't think looting is necessary, and it's regrettable that it happened. It's a consequence of the lawlessness initiated when the police attempted to violently suppress demonstrators and a riot broke out. All things considered, a few stores getting cleaned out is preferable to the continuation of "law and order" that means police brutalize the public with impunity.
__________________
Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

Last edited by TurkeysGhost; 9th June 2020 at 04:27 PM.
TurkeysGhost is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 04:29 PM   #35
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Also assaulting and tear gassing the peaceful protests is a fairly effective means at kicking off riots.
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Sorry, but it was the peacful protestors who go the job done, not the rioters and looters.
if anything,the rioters and the looters hurt getting out the message.
Your casual scceptance of the riots as necessary is pretty scary.
Agreed. There wasn't as much looting and violence as some would like to make out. The VAST majority of the protests have been peaceful. It's not the looting and violence that are getting things done; it's the massive amount of people and the continuing (3rd week) protests that are.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 04:31 PM   #36
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Reform of The Minneapolis police is nothing to do with the GOP. It’s a dem mayor, with a dem city council, with a dem state Legislature with a Dem governor. Why wasn’t it fixed? Note: the answer cannot be “GOP”.
Why do you keep focusing on this?

No one said it was the fault of the GOP. My question to you is what should we do about the out of control police forces in America? Side with the police unions that don't want to be accountable?
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 04:32 PM   #37
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 60,375
A lot of the looting toke place miles form the protest sites..that is what heppened in Sacramento.
The looteing gangs went to areas away form the protests, becuase they knew the police presence there would be greatly reduced with the patrols sent to cover the protest areas.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 04:46 PM   #38
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 54,892
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I don't think looting is necessary, and it's regrettable that it happened. It's a consequence of the lawlessness initiated when the police attempted to violently suppress demonstrators and a riot broke out. All things considered, a few stores getting cleaned out is preferable to the continuation of "law and order" that means police brutalize the public with impunity.
The OP doesn’t talk about a few stores cleaned out, but 6 miles of Lake St destroyed.

You might argue that 6 miles is an exaggeration, but if so, your “a few stores” is a far, far bigger one.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 04:48 PM   #39
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I don't think looting is necessary, and it's regrettable that it happened. It's a consequence of the lawlessness initiated when the police attempted to violently suppress demonstrators and a riot broke out. All things considered, a few stores getting cleaned out is preferable to the continuation of "law and order" that means police brutalize the public with impunity.
Most of the looters were opportunists and had nothing to do with the cops "suppressing demonstrators". They looted because cops weren't present, not because they were.

Quote:
There had been peaceful protests in Midtown Manhattan before a handful of people broke off near 30 Rockefeller Plaza and smashed windows at the Nintendo and Michael Kors stores.
Vandals were later seen tearing off protective plywood and metal gates to loot Macy's, Best Buy, Foot Looker and Duane Reade stores in Manhattan.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...tores-n1222016

Neighborhoods had to resort to protecting their own areas from vandals and looter because there were no police:

Quote:
In Longfellow, Hillary Oppmann watched vandals loot the corner Walgreens for three straight nights without interference before arsonists finally lit it on fire last night. Firefighters didn’t make it to the scene for more than 7 hours
https://www.startribune.com/after-fo...ves/570901702/
Quote:
Every night since, as darkness begins to fall, a group of neighbors living on the 3000 block of Harriet Avenue have put up makeshift barriers using old traffic signs at 31st & Lake to deter people from driving up their block. It’s a move they say is necessary when law enforcement is not responding quickly to incidents of violence and destruction that have stemmed off from demonstrations across the city since George Floyd was killed by Minneapolis police on May 25.
https://www.southwestjournal.com/new...borhood-watch/
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2020, 04:53 PM   #40
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 39,057
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm a big believer in unions, but I'm a strong believer that the police unions only care about their members.
And not all their members. An honest cop who outs a crooked one is not going to get any support from the union.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:30 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.