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Old 20th September 2019, 07:54 AM   #3401
jimbob
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
That was my guess as well.
Looks as though you are wrong.

Just the same as May's deal but with "Northern Ireland Backstop" and anything pertaining to it tipexed out.
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Old 20th September 2019, 07:56 AM   #3402
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
This is what the courts do. It's been what courts do for centuries. It's built into every case that has gone before the courts for hundreds of years.
For example?
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Old 20th September 2019, 08:09 AM   #3403
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
This is what the courts do. It's been what courts do for centuries. It's built into every case that has gone before the courts for hundreds of years.

There is no such thing as “straightforward questions of law” without legal precedent.

There is no precedent for this specific situation, but the general principle established over the last 500 years is that it is not legal to bypass the will of Parliament, or prevent Parliament from sitting in order to prevent them from making decisions you don’t like. The law and precedent is clear on this in regards to the Crown, it’s now up to the courts to decide whether this applies to the PM as well.
John Marshall would be very upset at the level of legal ignorance on show in this thread.
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Old 20th September 2019, 08:11 AM   #3404
Archie Gemmill Goal
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
How do you know it is the will of parliament to not be in this situation?


Note to Archie....see... someone that thinks the will of parliament is a factor. This is why I ask.
Completely different thing.
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Old 20th September 2019, 08:21 AM   #3405
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Does it matter if parliament opposed it or not?
Why would that matter? The question before the courts is whether it’s legal to bypass Parliaments ability to decide. The actual decision Parliament comes to is irrelevant.
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Old 20th September 2019, 08:24 AM   #3406
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Completely different thing.
Yes it is. It is taking an entirely different direction than if I responded to points you were making
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Old 20th September 2019, 08:28 AM   #3407
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Why would that matter? The question before the courts is whether it’s legal to bypass Parliaments ability to decide. The actual decision Parliament comes to is irrelevant.
I don't know why it would matter. That is why I am asking.
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Old 20th September 2019, 08:35 AM   #3408
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Originally Posted by mkg View Post
From the horse's mouth ...“There is nothing in WTO rules that forces anyone to put up border posts,” said WTO spokesman Keith Rockwell on a visit to Dublin last week."

It's in the article I posted which you didn't read.
Misleading. WTO rules require that customs be applied. If this can be achieved without border checkpoints the WTO rules are satisfied. At present, the UK cannot present a viable alternative to checkpoints.
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Old 20th September 2019, 08:39 AM   #3409
Archie Gemmill Goal
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Yes it is. It is taking an entirely different direction than if I responded to points you were making
So why did you mention me in your nonsense post?
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Old 20th September 2019, 08:59 AM   #3410
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It doesn't seem fairly clear that parliament objected. It seems the only way to determine if parliament objected is with a vote.
The courts have decided that the PM tried to use prorogation as a means to prevent Parliament from voting and that this is not legal. The outcome of a vote in parliament is irrelevant to this decision.
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Old 20th September 2019, 09:11 AM   #3411
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't know why it would matter. That is why I am asking.

No one else thinks the outcome of an actual vote matters to the case and you claim to have no opinion on why we should reconsider this opinion so it appears we have nothing left to discuss and can proceed under the assumption that it does not matter.
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Old 20th September 2019, 09:34 AM   #3412
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
No one else thinks the outcome of an actual vote matters to the case and you claim to have no opinion on why we should reconsider this opinion so it appears we have nothing left to discuss and can proceed under the assumption that it does not matter.
I didn't ask anyone to reconsider.
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Old 20th September 2019, 10:20 AM   #3413
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
For example?
It's the whole basis of Common law.
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Old 20th September 2019, 11:08 AM   #3414
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
It's the whole basis of Common law.
Then an example of it's application should be easy.
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Old 20th September 2019, 11:44 AM   #3415
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
For example?

https://assets.publishing.service.go...28894/0256.pdf
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Old 20th September 2019, 12:21 PM   #3416
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Let me be clear, I wasn't talking about resolving the backstop. I'm talking about making it better such that if the UK changed their mind and decided to go with the backstop, then they have an even better agreement to sign on to.
There are 3 options available, customs checkpoints at the border, a common customs zone or an internal border (aka the backstop). Brexiters are fundamentally opposed to all three. There is no way to “improve” them to make them more attractive because they are rejecting the whole principle they are based on.
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Old 20th September 2019, 04:50 PM   #3417
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
I will give it a look tonight. But the question was interpreting things other than votes. Statutes are votes? Then from the title it might not be it. But we shall see.
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Old 20th September 2019, 04:52 PM   #3418
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
There are 3 options available, customs checkpoints at the border, a common customs zone or an internal border (aka the backstop). Brexiters are fundamentally opposed to all three. There is no way to “improve” them to make them more attractive because they are rejecting the whole principle they are based on.
I explicitly said it wouldn't be for purposes of making them more attractive.
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Old Yesterday, 12:53 AM   #3419
Archie Gemmill Goal
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I explicitly said it wouldn't be for purposes of making them more attractive.
The only reason to change it would be to make it more attractive because what exists is fine and also has been agreed to by 27 member states. Changing something your client is already happy with simply because you have time to do so is stupid a waste of time and potentially counterproductive.

The purpose of the extension was for the UK to work out a solution to the intractable issues within its own parliament. They were given 3 months which they predictably spaffed up the wall with a leadership election, a recess and a record length prorogation.

When dealing with that kind of *********** its a wonder the EU even bother coming to the meetings.


Edited by Loss Leader:  Please do not use swear words as part of larger strings of text. The Autocensor cannot detect them. Further use of swear words written in a manner that defeats the autocensor will lead to infractions.
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Last edited by Loss Leader; Yesterday at 03:59 PM. Reason: Rule 10
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Old Yesterday, 02:24 AM   #3420
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Double.

It's been appalling recently. Time for a new thread, I think.


Mod InfoThread continues here.
Posted By:zooterkin
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