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Tags obituaries , Robert Mugabe , Zimbabwe incidents , Zimbabwe politics

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Old 14th September 2019, 10:19 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
His belief that capitalist agriculture would improve the conditions for ordinary Zimbabweans started before that. That's why the West loved him and wasn't too concerned about the massacres.
Apparently, western imperialists weren't the only ones willing to overlook Mugabe's savage brutality.
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Old 15th September 2019, 12:30 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Huh? It was colonialism that brought civilization to Africa. There had been people living in Africa for 10 of thousands of years. Are you saying that Africa would have just magically taken off in the last few centuries if Europeans didn't show up?? Africa took off because of European colonialism. As the best leader Rhodesia ever had, Ian Smith, stated,

"To those who say derogatory things about colonialism, I would say colonialism is a wonderful thing. It spread civilization to Africa. Before it they had no written language, no wheel as we know it, no schools, no hospitals, not even normal clothing."
Ian Smith

Yes, that sounds like something that you and Ian Smith would say.

Spreading civilization in Africa - a couple of highlights:

Quote:
In 1893 and 1894, with the help of their new Maxim guns, the BSAP would go on to defeat the Ndebele in the First Matabele War. Rhodes additionally sought permission to negotiate similar concessions covering all territory between the Limpopo River and Lake Tanganyika, then known as "Zambesia".
In accordance with the terms of aforementioned concessions and treaties, mass settlement was encouraged, with the British maintaining control over labour as well as precious metals and other mineral resources.

In 1895, the BSAC adopted the name "Rhodesia" for the territory, in honour of Rhodes. In 1898 "Southern Rhodesia" became the official name for the region south of the Zambezi, which later became Zimbabwe. The region to the north was administered separately and later termed Northern Rhodesia (now Zambia). Shortly after Rhodes' disastrous Jameson Raid on the South African Republic, the Ndebele rebelled against white rule, led by their charismatic religious leader, Mlimo. The Second Matabele War lasted in Matabeleland until 1896, when Mlimo was assassinated. Shona agitators staged unsuccessful revolts (known as Chimurenga) against company rule during 1896 and 1897.[citation needed]
Following these failed insurrections, the Ndebele and Shona groups were finally subdued by the Rhodes administration, which organised the land with a disproportionate bias favouring Europeans, thus displacing many indigenous peoples.
Zimbabwe: Colonial era and Rhodesia (1888–1964) (Wikipeda)

Writing systems of Africa (Wikipedia)

Quote:
Nubians from after about 400 BCE used wheels for spinning pottery and as water wheels.[19] It is thought that Nubian waterwheels may have been ox-driven. It is also known that Nubians used horse-drawn chariots imported from Egypt.
Wheel: History (Wikipedia)

Indigenous education during the pre-colonial period in Southern Africa (Indilinga: African Journal of Indigenous Knowledge Systems)

Ian Smith dressed in normal clothing:
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Last edited by dann; 15th September 2019 at 01:16 AM.
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Old 15th September 2019, 06:09 AM   #43
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I know it's nearly pedantic to remind of this, but Africa has a Mediterranean coast, and some might recall that Carthage and ancient Egypt and the like were once considered somewhat "civilized."
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Old 15th September 2019, 06:36 AM   #44
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Yes, but it must have been because they were colonized by white people, mustn't it?!
Another thing that is worth considering: When did medicine become scientific? (Wikipedia)
And in this particular context: How did Rhodesia contribute to medical science? (Wikipedia)
Ian Smith, "the best leader Rhodesia ever had" (tanabear), "served as Prime Minister of Rhodesia (or Southern Rhodesia; today Zimbabwe) from 1964 to 1979." (Wikipedia)
What an utterly despicable *******!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 15th September 2019 at 06:45 AM.
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Old 15th September 2019, 10:30 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I know it's nearly pedantic to remind of this, but Africa has a Mediterranean coast, and some might recall that Carthage and ancient Egypt and the like were once considered somewhat "civilized."
If Northern Africa was called the Southern Mediterranean it would clear up a lot of needless wrangling when people discuss "Africa". Carthage was a colony of Phoenicians from the Levant, modern-day Lebanon. Sub-Saharan Africa is very different from Northern Africa.

Ian Smith is one of those people who is hated because he was right.

"Pushing people forward simply because of their colour, irrespective of merit, would be most unfortunate and would of course lead to disaster. It would mean that Rhodesia would then develop into a kind of banana republic where the country would in no time be bankrupt."
Ian Smith
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Old 15th September 2019, 12:17 PM   #46
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No true African. How original.

Let me guess...King Leopold was not a true European either.
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Last edited by bruto; 15th September 2019 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 15th September 2019, 12:45 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Ian Smith is one of those people who is hated because he was right.

Yes, when you have access to a lot of predictions, you can always pick the ones that seemed be right and ignore the ones that were obviously wrong:

"I don’t believe in majority rule ever in Rhodesia… not in 1,000 years."
Ian Smith

But he's as dead as Mugabe now and only missed by white supremacists.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 15th September 2019, 02:15 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
And the world has just become a better place.....

Spare a thought for Nestlé. Mugabe was a valued trading partner.
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Old Today, 09:15 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Yes, when you have access to a lot of predictions, you can always pick the ones that seemed be right and ignore the ones that were obviously wrong:

"I don’t believe in majority rule ever in Rhodesia… not in 1,000 years."
Ian Smith

But he's as dead as Mugabe now and only missed by white supremacists.
That wasn't a prediction. It was just a statement that he didn't think black rule was a good idea. I'm sure he had the same belief when Mugabe was President.

I'm sure he is missed by more than "white supremacists". The blacks of Rhodesia were probably better off than in any other African nation. Harare, the capital of Zimbabwe, was once one of the cleanest cities on the continent. Now it is a garbage dump. As they say now, "We used to drive on the left side of the road, now we drive on what's left of the road."
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Old Today, 01:20 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Huh? It was colonialism that brought civilization to Africa. There had been people living in Africa for 10 of thousands of years. Are you saying that Africa would have just magically taken off in the last few centuries if Europeans didn't show up?? Africa took off because of European colonialism. As the best leader Rhodesia ever had, Ian Smith, stated,

"To those who say derogatory things about colonialism, I would say colonialism is a wonderful thing. It spread civilization to Africa. Before it they had no written language, no wheel as we know it, no schools, no hospitals, not even normal clothing."
Ian Smith

Someone's White SUpremacy is showing....
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Old Today, 01:22 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
That wasn't a prediction. It was just a statement that he didn't think black rule was a good idea. I'm sure he had the same belief when Mugabe was President.

I'm sure he is missed by more than "white supremacists". The blacks of Rhodesia were probably better off than in any other African nation. Harare, the capital of Zimbabwe, was once one of the cleanest cities on the continent. Now it is a garbage dump. As they say now, "We used to drive on the left side of the road, now we drive on what's left of the road."
Next you will be telling us what a wonderful thing Aparthied in Southe Africa was, or how much better Black American were under Jim Crow.
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Old Today, 01:24 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I know it's nearly pedantic to remind of this, but Africa has a Mediterranean coast, and some might recall that Carthage and ancient Egypt and the like were once considered somewhat "civilized."

And it was the civilized western world who gave us such great humanitarian figures as Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin....
Muguabe was bad, yes, he was a rank amateur compared to those two....
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Old Today, 01:34 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
That wasn't a prediction. It was just a statement that he didn't think black rule was a good idea. I'm sure he had the same belief when Mugabe was President.

I'm sure he is missed by more than "white supremacists". The blacks of Rhodesia were probably better off than in any other African nation. Harare, the capital of Zimbabwe, was once one of the cleanest cities on the continent. Now it is a garbage dump. As they say now, "We used to drive on the left side of the road, now we drive on what's left of the road."
Have a little read about Ian Smith, unreconstructed white supremacist.
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Old Today, 01:34 PM   #54
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And, surprise, another Right winger outs himself as a bigot who thinks not whites are an infeiror race. What a big surprise.
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Old Today, 01:35 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
But in tanabear's eyes, that is a feature, not a bug...
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