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Tags facebook , Facebook issues , internet incidents , internet issues , Mark Zuckerberg

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Old 12th June 2019, 03:24 PM   #1
Skeptic Ginger
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Deepfake videos muddy the water even more.

Watch Zuckerberg confess: “Imagine this for a second: One man, with total control of billions of people’s stolen data, all their secrets, their lives, their futures.”

Except it's not him. Videos faking people out has moved ahead another step.
Quote:
Deepfake video of Mark Zuckerberg presents a new challenge for Facebook
What goes around comes around.
Quote:
Facebook refused to remove a doctored video of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi last month, but this week the company faces a new quandary: Will it remove a fake video of its own CEO, Mark Zuckerberg?

The video, posted to Facebook-owned Instagram over the weekend, falsely portrays Zuckerberg as saying, “Imagine this for a second: One man, with total control of billions of people’s stolen data, all their secrets, their lives, their futures.”...

...Last month Facebook declined to remove a manipulated video that made it appear House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was slurring her words. The company said it downranked the false video, meaning it would be seen in fewer people’s Facebook News Feeds. Pelosi later blasted the company, “I think they have proven — by not taking down something they know is false — that they were willing enablers of the Russian interference in our election,” she told California’s KQED.
The Zuckerberg one is pretty convincing. There's one of Trump that appears fake because the voice isn't perfect. I'm sure fixing that is only another tech move away.
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Old 12th June 2019, 03:27 PM   #2
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Just waiting for The PDJT to deny something he actually said on camera as "Fake Views".
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Old 12th June 2019, 03:32 PM   #3
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Video is pretty much dead as a convenience citation.
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Old 12th June 2019, 03:37 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Video is pretty much dead as a convenience citation.
What?

You think viral videos are dead or something?
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Old 12th June 2019, 03:46 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Video is pretty much dead as a convenience citation.
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
What?

You think viral videos are dead or something?
Not just viral video. Media (meaning TV news) lives by its video sound bites. The PDJT doesn't acknowledge anything unless he's seen it on TV.
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Old 12th June 2019, 03:51 PM   #6
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Doesn't Zuckerberg already look like a creepy robot? Something about his eyes and cheeks always looks off to me. Either he's had work done and it moved him close to the uncanny valley, or else he's just unfortunately rubbery in the face. I know he's super rich but I still can't find him attractive in the least. And I have really low standards!
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Old 12th June 2019, 03:58 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Doesn't Zuckerberg already look like a creepy robot? Something about his eyes and cheeks always looks off to me. Either he's had work done and it moved him close to the uncanny valley, or else he's just unfortunately rubbery in the face. I know he's super rich but I still can't find him attractive in the least. And I have really low standards!

That's lazy, mean and dangerous!!!!!!!elf!
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Old 12th June 2019, 03:59 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
What?



You think viral videos are dead or something?
?

Please actually read my post all the way through.
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Old 12th June 2019, 04:00 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Not just viral video. Media (meaning TV news) lives by its video sound bites. The PDJT doesn't acknowledge anything unless he's seen it on TV.
I don't have a clue what either one of you is talking about. Who said anything about seeing these deepfakes on TV?

As for Trump, any fake video of Trump lying is moot. You don't need to fake that to show the real thing. There's still a Tweet for any/everything.

But one of Trump declaring war with Iran or insulting the Ayatollah could be problematic if spread around other countries. I suppose there could be deepfakes of Trump insulting the deplorables.
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Old 12th June 2019, 04:01 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
That's lazy, mean and dangerous!!!!!!!elf!
No way, Data was kinda hot. The eye color wasn't ideal, but that way he tilted his head to the side to indicate thought was adorable. And the early season uniforms revealed he had pretty good pecs for a science nerd. Tasha was right to run him through Demo Mode.
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Old 12th June 2019, 04:50 PM   #11
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Yeah we're already in a post-truth world. Nobody is waiting for deepfakes to think stuff they've already decided is true.

If you're the kind of person who thinks that Bush did 9/11 or Hillary had a child sex pizza parlor dungeon, you aren't the kind of person who's waiting on evidence.

They will be some people in the margins affected by these videos, but not that many. People already either don't believe evidence or make it stuff without it now.
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Old 12th June 2019, 05:10 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yeah we're already in a post-truth world. Nobody is waiting for deepfakes to think stuff they've already decided is true.

If you're the kind of person who thinks that Bush did 9/11 or Hillary had a child sex pizza parlor dungeon, you aren't the kind of person who's waiting on evidence.

They will be some people in the margins affected by these videos, but not that many. People already either don't believe evidence or make it stuff without it now.
I'm coming at it from the other direction.

For those of us who like asking for evidence or citations or whatever, "here's a video I found on the Internet, now do you believe me?" is no longer such a great argument.
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Old 12th June 2019, 08:37 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I don't have a clue what either one of you is talking about. Who said anything about seeing these deepfakes on TV?

As for Trump, any fake video of Trump lying is moot. You don't need to fake that to show the real thing. There's still a Tweet for any/everything.

But one of Trump declaring war with Iran or insulting the Ayatollah could be problematic if spread around other countries. I suppose there could be deepfakes of Trump insulting the deplorables.
Lotsa stories about deep fakes recently. They go way beyond one candidate or one campaign. They really strike at what we can know about the world.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.e42df322ba6e
https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...=.061505bb59ed
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/10/o...sultPosition=4
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Old 12th June 2019, 08:50 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm coming at it from the other direction.

For those of us who like asking for evidence or citations or whatever, "here's a video I found on the Internet, now do you believe me?" is no longer such a great argument.
Why would you use a random video as evidence anyway? You go to reliable sources.
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Old 12th June 2019, 09:33 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Why would you use a random video as evidence anyway? You go to reliable sources.
That's not on until Sunday morning. It's on CNN.
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Old 12th June 2019, 09:41 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
No way, Data was kinda hot. The eye color wasn't ideal, but that way he tilted his head to the side to indicate thought was adorable. And the early season uniforms revealed he had pretty good pecs for a science nerd. Tasha was right to run him through Demo Mode.
Mr Fully Functional.
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Old 13th June 2019, 12:13 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
No way, Data was kinda hot.
Tasha certainly thought so!

And so did Ensign D'Sora.... for a while.
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Old 13th June 2019, 02:22 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Watch Zuckerberg confess: “Imagine this for a second: One man, with total control of billions of people’s stolen data, all their secrets, their lives, their futures.”

Except it's not him. Videos faking people out has moved ahead another step.


What goes around comes around.

The Zuckerberg one is pretty convincing. There's one of Trump that appears fake because the voice isn't perfect. I'm sure fixing that is only another tech move away.


Are you talking about a different video than your link?
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Old 13th June 2019, 02:39 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Why would you use a random video as evidence anyway? You go to reliable sources.
Video used to be a very reliable source in many cases. Think of how Policemen are required to carry body-cameras in some places. Deepfakes are the end of that. One step after the other getting deeper and deeper into a technological dystopia... All data becoming digital and easily altered. Images and video unreliable. Post-truth indeed.
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Old 13th June 2019, 05:34 AM   #20
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Alarming, but not unexpected. Another milestone along a route we have been traveling for a while.

As I age I find myself questioning whether some new development (be it a trending outlook or behavior that I find irrational, or a technology that seems troublesome and unnecessary at the same time) is causing me rational alarm, or simply triggering some kind of "get off my lawn" knee jerk defensiveness.
I can't see the erosion of every source of information about things that I did not personally witness as having any redeeming characteristics though. However hard I try to avoid being a technological Luddite.
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Old 13th June 2019, 06:15 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Watch Zuckerberg confess: “Imagine this for a second: One man, with total control of billions of people’s stolen data, all their secrets, their lives, their futures.”

Except it's not him. Videos faking people out has moved ahead another step.


What goes around comes around.

The Zuckerberg one is pretty convincing. There's one of Trump that appears fake because the voice isn't perfect. I'm sure fixing that is only another tech move away.
Within a short time it'll be near-impossible to know what's real and not on the internet.

Time to pull the plug. Inventing computers was a mistake. And I'm a tech guy!
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Old 13th June 2019, 06:16 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Why would you use a random video as evidence anyway? You go to reliable sources.
And that's the problem. It's becoming more and more difficult to identify them, and for them to identify other good sources as well.
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Old 13th June 2019, 06:57 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Alarming, but not unexpected. Another milestone along a route we have been traveling for a while.

As I age I find myself questioning whether some new development (be it a trending outlook or behavior that I find irrational, or a technology that seems troublesome and unnecessary at the same time) is causing me rational alarm, or simply triggering some kind of "get off my lawn" knee jerk defensiveness.
I can't see the erosion of every source of information about things that I did not personally witness as having any redeeming characteristics though. However hard I try to avoid being a technological Luddite.
You do realize that human perceptions are not reliable indicators of how things actually are, right? Nothing has changed: we are all still just minds using fallible tools to attempt to know things outside of ourselves. Video can deceive you? Your eyes deceive you! They always have.
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Old 13th June 2019, 07:20 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Lotsa stories about deep fakes recently. They go way beyond one candidate or one campaign. They really strike at what we can know about the world.
On this I disagree. Commodity video has only been a recent addition to how we "know" things about the world. A hundred years ago, and for thousands of years before that, people managed to learn about the world just fine without needing to see video footage from someone's telephone pocket watch comlog.
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Old 13th June 2019, 07:24 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Abooga View Post
Video used to be a very reliable source in many cases. Think of how Policemen are required to carry body-cameras in some places. Deepfakes are the end of that.
I disagree about this. Deepfakes are the end of viral videos purporting to be leaks of real police camera footage.

Police camera footage with a known chain of custody, presented at evidence in a controlled venue such as the courtroom, and subjected to expert analysis, is going to be fine for the forseeable future.
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Old 13th June 2019, 07:28 AM   #26
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Great. Cue fake revenge porn in 5... 4... 3...

"That's not me, boss, I swear - it's a deepfake."
"Maybe. But I think we're going to go in a different direction."
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Old 13th June 2019, 07:32 AM   #27
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Looking around here, most of the example videos I'm seeing still look pretty darn weird and fake. I don't think your average person would necessarily be fooled. Of course, the tech will surely improve, so who knows how long that will be the case.

Also, I suppose it doesn't really matter whether I can tell something is fake if a bunch of loons on the internet believe it and make a fuss about it. It's hard for me to tell if those touting the "drunk Pelosi" video truly believe it or if they're just trying to make trouble. I'm sure at least a few people have genuine belief.

Info about "drunk Pelosi" deepfake - https://slate.com/technology/2019/06...formation.html

I honestly don't understand how people don't hear a pitch-shift there. I'm an audio nerd, but still.

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Old 13th June 2019, 08:11 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I disagree about this. Deepfakes are the end of viral videos purporting to be leaks of real police camera footage.

Police camera footage with a known chain of custody, presented at evidence in a controlled venue such as the courtroom, and subjected to expert analysis, is going to be fine for the forseeable future.
As demonstrated in Memphis today, fake video is not needed to get a mob riled up. Just rumors and instant social media.
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Old 13th June 2019, 08:16 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
I honestly don't understand how people don't hear a pitch-shift there. I'm an audio nerd, but still.
I think at this point deepfakes in general aren't good enough for people to literally believe on some real intellectual level.

They are simply good enough to be used as a means to an end.

Which is again why I'm not really seeing the "tipping point" here.

Literally nobody who liked Pelosi didn't like here after watching that video and literally nobody who disliked her before need the video to dislike her. And that would have held accurate had the video been undetectably perfect. Sure once it's perfected there's gonna be a few people in the margins swayed by it, but it's not gonna make a statistical difference for a public video, lest of all one who's in a leadership position in one of the tribes.

All deepfakes, once "perfected" on a practical level which is gonna be any day now technologically speaking, are gonna do is preach to the choir.

I'm a lot more worried about one one one deepfakes ("Pay me 200,000 in bitcoin or this video of you screwing the babysitter gets sent to your wife" kind of thing) then them being used to sway public opinion about politics. That would be pissing in the ocean level of pointless at point. Political discourse is already intellectual dead, there's no point in putting a bullet in its head.
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Old 13th June 2019, 08:31 AM   #30
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I just assume that any viral video supporting a political point is fake. Either deep, or misrepresented, or out of context, or something, but fake.

I'm still willing to provisionally accept video clips hosted on a mainstream media site. One day, we'll hear about CNN.com being hacked and serving a deepfake as if it were real events, and that will be the end of my provisional acceptance of reputably-hosted video.
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Old 13th June 2019, 08:36 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
On this I disagree. Commodity video has only been a recent addition to how we "know" things about the world. A hundred years ago, and for thousands of years before that, people managed to learn about the world just fine without needing to see video footage from someone's telephone pocket watch comlog.
Did they?

http://content.time.com/time/magazin...854840,00.html
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Old 13th June 2019, 08:41 AM   #32
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Why on earth would anybody waste this technology on politics? The clear purpose of it is for entertainment. I want a video of Hitler singing "Poker Face". I want a video of Divine giving the stewardess airline safety speech. I want a video of Queen Elizabeth II giving Jerri Blank's "I like the pole and the hole" speech.
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Old 13th June 2019, 08:42 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Now you're getting it.
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Old 13th June 2019, 08:44 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Why on earth would anybody waste this technology on politics? The clear purpose of it is for entertainment. I want a video of Hitler singing "Poker Face". I want a video of Divine giving the stewardess airline safety speech. I want a video of Queen Elizabeth II giving Jerri Blank's "I like the pole and the hole" speech.
Oh I'm sure we'll get a lot of stuff like that.

Hell even beyond that this a technology that can be used for good. Amateurs using commercial or even free software on home PC level hardware where able to remove Henry Cavill's mustache in Justice League footage and insert Carrie Fisher as Princess Leia into Rogue One with results far superior to what we got from full on special effects studios.

This is not a dark cloud with no silver lining.

I also wonder about it's ability to do things like general film restoration.
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Old 13th June 2019, 08:47 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I think at this point deepfakes in general aren't good enough for people to literally believe on some real intellectual level.

They are simply good enough to be used as a means to an end.

Which is again why I'm not really seeing the "tipping point" here.

Literally nobody who liked Pelosi didn't like here after watching that video and literally nobody who disliked her before need the video to dislike her. And that would have held accurate had the video been undetectably perfect. Sure once it's perfected there's gonna be a few people in the margins swayed by it, but it's not gonna make a statistical difference for a public video, lest of all one who's in a leadership position in one of the tribes.

All deepfakes, once "perfected" on a practical level which is gonna be any day now technologically speaking, are gonna do is preach to the choir.

I'm a lot more worried about one one one deepfakes ("Pay me 200,000 in bitcoin or this video of you screwing the babysitter gets sent to your wife" kind of thing) then them being used to sway public opinion about politics. That would be pissing in the ocean level of pointless at point. Political discourse is already intellectual dead, there's no point in putting a bullet in its head.
If CNN can't tell the difference between a real video portraying a political candidate doing or saying something terrible, it might make the news, be nearly impossible to dispel, and thus have an impact on an election. I'd be concerned about that.
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Old 13th June 2019, 08:48 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Why on earth would anybody waste this technology on politics? The clear purpose of it is for entertainment. I want a video of Hitler singing "Poker Face". I want a video of Divine giving the stewardess airline safety speech. I want a video of Queen Elizabeth II giving Jerri Blank's "I like the pole and the hole" speech.
Or a video of a missile hitting the Pentagon on 9/11/2001 ?
A video of Rodney King striking police officers before his beating?

The ability to more effectively disseminate propaganda is not disconcerting to you?
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Old 13th June 2019, 08:50 AM   #37
Belz...
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Or a video of a missile hitting the Pentagon on 9/11/2001 ?
A video of Rodney King striking police officers before his beating?

The ability to more effectively disseminate propaganda is not disconcerting to you?
Our increasing inability to tell fact from fiction is already causing problems.
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Old 13th June 2019, 08:53 AM   #38
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But that's kind of what I'm saying. We had footage of man walking on the moon in 1969 way before "fake video" was even a thing and people still don't believe that happened.

People already look a fake videos and go "That's real" and real videos and go "that's fake" now.

"Fact from fiction" is gone, off the table, probably never coming back. We're in a post-truth worth. The concept is dead.
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Old 13th June 2019, 08:54 AM   #39
Belz...
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
But that's kind of what I'm saying. We had footage of man walking on the moon in 1969 way before "fake video" was even a thing and people still don't believe that happened.
Yes and my point is that this is just going to make it worse. Perhaps take things beyond the truth horizon.
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Old 13th June 2019, 08:57 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Our increasing inability to tell fact from fiction is already causing problems.
As Distracted1 just pointed out, we've always had this inability. Deepfakes are just doing for video news what has always been the case for printed news.
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