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Tags Minneapolis incidents , police incidents , police misconduct charges , shooting incidents

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Old 13th August 2018, 11:51 AM   #1001
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Every time I see a government lawyer heading to court I think about my taxes. Win, lose, or draw that **** costs a lot of money.

I think the same when I see road construction, but at least that gives decent people a job.
Yes, and road construction eventually leads to an improved road, or at least to prevention of further deterioration.
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Old 14th August 2018, 06:08 AM   #1002
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
At some point are voters going to ask for better training of officers to avoid having to pay for such lawsuits?
Why would training help? You have to have police want to change police culture, and these settlements are simply not a problem for them. They keep their jobs, the city pays out a few million not their problem.
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Old 14th August 2018, 12:30 PM   #1003
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
At some point are voters going to ask for better training of officers to avoid having to pay for such lawsuits?

Also, what about policies and procedures, and accountability guidelines?

What if a peace officer made a mistake? Or, what if an officer just sucks. And who was responsible to see if the body cameras or dash camera(s?) were on?

Was Officer Mohamed Noor "objectively reasonable" when he shot and killed Justine Ruszczyk Damond?
  • Justine didn't commit a crime
  • Justine didn't have a weapon
  • Justine didn't pose an immediate threat to the safety of the officers or others
  • Justine wasn't resisting arrest or trying to flee
Officer Noor shot and killed a woman wearing pajamas after responding to a call of a possible rape (of a female).

There's no audio or video evidence because no body camera or dash camera recordings were made at the time of the shooting.

Peter Callaghan wrote1:

Quote:
Under the city’s policy at the time, “Prior to any use of force situation,” is one of many situations where body camera activation is required by officers. “If a (body worn camera) is not activated prior to a use of force, it should be activated as soon as it is safe to do so,” the policy states.

There's a lot involved with this situation, training, experience, policies and procedures, police culture, accountability (or lack thereof).

[1] Callaghan, Peter. (2017, July 27). Did a policy aimed at building trust in the Minneapolis Police Department end up doing the opposite? Retrieved from minnpost.com
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Old 14th August 2018, 02:23 PM   #1004
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Why would training help? You have to have police want to change police culture, and these settlements are simply not a problem for them. They keep their jobs, the city pays out a few million not their problem.

Maybe if the payments came out of their pension fund.

That would light a fire under some police culture changes.
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Old 6th September 2018, 05:40 AM   #1005
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Noor seems to have been a particularly bad choice to be a police officer...

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archiv...is-follies.php
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Old 6th September 2018, 06:27 AM   #1006
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Noor seems to have been a particularly bad choice to be a police officer...

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archiv...is-follies.php
Thanks for this. Noor’s fate is now sealed. But as I have said in this and other threads, the force which hired, trained and allowed this clown to remain on duty is culpable and deserves to pay millions in punitive damages.

Amalgamate US police forces now and strive for the level of competence displayed by decent forces.
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Old 25th April 2019, 06:40 PM   #1007
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Mohamed Noor takes the stand in the murder trial of Sydney woman Justine Damond Ruszczyk

Quote:
Mohamed Noor has not said a word until now.

The former Minneapolis police officer who is accused of killing Australian Justine Damond Ruszczyk has been silent in the months since the July 2017 shooting.

He has so far refused to talk to police investigators or provide Ms Damond Ruszczyk's family with an explanation.

In a surprise development in court today, defence counsel Tom Plunkett announced Mr Noor would be the first witness for the defence.

His testimony detailed the moments of a killing the prosecution says is murder and the defence calls a tragic mistake.
It appears like he genuinely believed that he and his partner were under threat.

[soapbox]This is why guns are so dangerous in civilian hands. Noor was specifically trained in counter-ambush tactics and making the decision to shoot while under pressure. And he still misread the situation so badly that he shot and killed an innocent women. Civilians don't have this training. And yet they expect to be able to take down the bad guy with the gun.[/soapbox]
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Old 25th April 2019, 08:49 PM   #1008
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So here's what I'd love to see: the guy goes on the stand and talks about how he was scared for his life. Get the prosecution to drill him on, even though you are a trained police officer, you were afraid of an unarmed victim approaching you. He confirms it. OK, we have established that, although he was a trained LEO, that training did not prepare him to respond properly to an innocent person approaching him.

Regardless of whether the jury buys it or not, my next step is to file a civil suit against the agency that was responsible for training him, because they obviously failed. I don't need to be an expert in law enforcement to know that if you have been trained to shoot an unarmed crime victim because you are afraid for your life, you have not been trained well.

This was the person you were supposed to serve, and you shot and killed her. If you are attributing that to your training, then hold that responsible?
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Old 25th April 2019, 08:59 PM   #1009
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Whilst it is no defence of Noor, I can just imagine the scene. It's night, Damond has called for the police to come because she has seen something questionable, they have parked near her house and she has seen them there. In a helpful, friendly and open manner as we do in Australia, she has left her home and walked up to the police car, and tapped gently on the closed window to get their attention. Most likely she expected them to roll down the window so she can tell them what she saw and where. She probably had no idea that this would be a MUST NEVER DO THIS! action in the USA. Consequently the paranoid trigger-happy cops think they are "under attack" and open fire without thinking first... A "cultural difference" killing.
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Old 25th April 2019, 09:29 PM   #1010
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Whilst it is no defence of Noor, I can just imagine the scene. It's night, Damond has called for the police to come because she has seen something questionable, they have parked near her house and she has seen them there.
.....
All previous reports say the police car never stopped before the shooting, and that as it was driving slowly through the alley the cops were startled by a noise and then by her sudden appearance. The speculation is that she might have run to the car from behind and slapped it to get the cops' attention. The cop in the passenger seat, Noor, immediately assumed that he was under lethal assault from an unarmed woman in pajamas and opened fire through the door across his partner.
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Old 25th April 2019, 09:46 PM   #1011
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
[soapbox]This is why guns are so dangerous in civilian hands. Noor was specifically trained in counter-ambush tactics and making the decision to shoot while under pressure. And he still misread the situation so badly that he shot and killed an innocent women. Civilians don't have this training. And yet they expect to be able to take down the bad guy with the gun.[/soapbox]
Did it occur to you that maybe this training was counter-productive? That it put him on edge, making him expect an ambush that he would have to respond to immediately?
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Old 25th April 2019, 10:50 PM   #1012
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
All previous reports say the police car never stopped before the shooting, and that as it was driving slowly through the alley the cops were startled by a noise and then by her sudden appearance. The speculation is that she might have run to the car from behind and slapped it to get the cops' attention. The cop in the passenger seat, Noor, immediately assumed that he was under lethal assault from an unarmed woman in pajamas and opened fire through the door across his partner.
They found no finger or palm prints on the car afterwards. Either it had been wiped clean, or she never touched the car.
Quote:
Prosecutors have questioned the supposed noise, presumably from Damond slapping the car as she approached, by noting that investigators had not found forensic evidence of her fingerprints on the car.

They also questioned the timing of Noor’s partner Matthew Harrity’s first mention of the thump – not on the night of the shooting but a few days later, as he was being interviewed by state investigators.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...amond-shooting

And how could they be startled by a noise inside a police car (were the windows up?) which was apparently cruising slowly with the engine running? Chances are the police radio was working too, adding to the noise level. So it would need to have been a heck of a noise to startle them! What did she do? Set off a firecracker? Jump out from behind a tree and shout "BOO!"?
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Last edited by Norman Alexander; 25th April 2019 at 10:51 PM.
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Old 25th April 2019, 10:55 PM   #1013
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Did it occur to you that maybe this training was counter-productive? That it put him on edge, making him expect an ambush that he would have to respond to immediately?
That could be the case. But even if it is, I don't think it makes civilians without that training safer or more capable of making a decision under pressure whether to use deadly force or not, just that LEOs who receive bad training are less safe and capable of making that decision.

Presumably, given that this is America and there isn't consistency between the states, there are a great number of training providers and the training that they provide is of varying quality. Do you think that there is an argument here for increased standards of training? Or do you think that LEOs shouldn't be given counter-ambush training at all? Again, remembering that this is America and any criminal they encounter can therefore be assumed to have a gun?
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Old 25th April 2019, 10:59 PM   #1014
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Did it occur to you that maybe this training was counter-productive? That it put him on edge, making him expect an ambush that he would have to respond to immediately?
That has been his exact excuse in court. Which is an even bigger worry. If he was trained to be SO jumpy that he shot across his partner and out the driver's window without any warning, imagine how his partner must have felt! Not only a police pistol going off in his face unexpectedly, it could have been him getting shot if the other missed by a little! I suspect he literally crapped himself right there.

But this was very much a recipe for disaster: Train the cop to be ultra-jumpy, then give him a high-powered handgun and license to use it, then put him in a potential ambush situation... I gather most military types will tell you that they much prefer calmness in stressful situations, holding fire until it can be effective. They do not want hotheads firing off everything they have at the first mosquito burp.
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Old 26th April 2019, 12:55 PM   #1015
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
They found no finger or palm prints on the car afterwards. Either it had been wiped clean, or she never touched the car.
.....
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...amond-shooting

If she had smacked it with the edge of her hand or the side of her closed fist, there wouldn't have been any fingerprints. I also recall some delay in impounding the car and examining it; one rain would likely have wiped out any prints.

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
....
And how could they be startled by a noise inside a police car (were the windows up?) which was apparently cruising slowly with the engine running? Chances are the police radio was working too, adding to the noise level. So it would need to have been a heck of a noise to startle them! What did she do? Set off a firecracker? Jump out from behind a tree and shout "BOO!"?
Do you drive? You ever had an acorn land on your roof? You would certainly hear somebody striking the body of the car. It would resonate inside. It would sound like you had hit something.

I'm willing to believe the cops' story up until the shooting. There is nothing the cop could say about his training or his assumptions or his fears or anything the victim did that could possibly justify or rationalize this murder.

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Old 30th April 2019, 02:01 PM   #1016
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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ver...pjj?ocid=ientp
Quote:
A verdict has been reached in the murder trial of former Minneapolis police officer Mohamed Noor, whose monthlong trial went to deliberations Monday afternoon.

Hennepin County District Court officials said the verdict was reached about 3:30 p.m. It will be announced in court at 4:30 p.m.
Noor's testimony does not agree with his partner's.
Quote:
Noor testified that upon hearing the sound, Harrity yelled out in fear, struggled to unholster his gun and looked at him with fear in his eyes. Noor told the court that the startling sound, his typically calm partner’s reaction and a figure raising a right arm at Harrity’s window caused him to fear that they were being ambushed.
Harrity says something different, but not exactly damning.
Quote:
Prosecutors leveraged Harrity’s reaction against Noor. While Harrity testified that he was spooked by the noise and the sight of a silhouette at his window, he also acknowledged that he had been unable to see Damond’s hands and that it was premature to use deadly force based on the information he had at the time.
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Old 30th April 2019, 02:22 PM   #1017
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
That could be the case. But even if it is, I don't think it makes civilians without that training safer or more capable of making a decision under pressure whether to use deadly force or not, just that LEOs who receive bad training are less safe and capable of making that decision.

Presumably, given that this is America and there isn't consistency between the states, there are a great number of training providers and the training that they provide is of varying quality. Do you think that there is an argument here for increased standards of training? Or do you think that LEOs shouldn't be given counter-ambush training at all? Again, remembering that this is America and any criminal they encounter can therefore be assumed to have a gun?
In the U.S., The general standardized police training is a circumulm developed as POST - Police (or peace) Officers Standards & Training here's a link to he California version:

https://post.ca.gov/peace-officer-basic-training

The POST-certified Regular Basic Course (basic academy) is the training standard for police officers, deputy sheriffs, school district police officers, district attorney investigators, as well as a few other classifications of peace officers. The basic academy is both physically and mentally challenging. It includes a minimum of 664 hours of POST-developed training and testing in 42 separate areas of instruction called Learning Domains. Most POST-certified basic training academies exceed the 664 hour minimum by 200 or more hours with some academies presenting over 1000 hours of training and testing.

Even though there are differences in local LE policies, the required training standards are pretty similar across the board. My agency had use-of-force policies that may be unique to our jurisdiction but if I went to Georgia to do a firearms training exchange with another agency the fundamentals of training would be basically the same.
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Old 30th April 2019, 03:07 PM   #1018
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Noor has been found guilty. Various breaking sources.
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Old 30th April 2019, 04:20 PM   #1019
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Guilty of third-degree murder, but not second-degree.
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Old 30th April 2019, 04:30 PM   #1020
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Third degree murder and second degree manslaughter.

He should do many years in jail with those charges.
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Old 30th April 2019, 05:27 PM   #1021
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Noor has been found guilty. Various breaking sources.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ve...id=mailsignout
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Old 30th April 2019, 11:01 PM   #1022
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Third degree murder and second degree manslaughter.

He should do many years in jail with those charges.
Hope so. Good verdict. I expected manslaughter and a slap on the wrist.
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Old 30th April 2019, 11:32 PM   #1023
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Guilty of third-degree murder, but not second-degree.
Mildly surprising - not shocking, given that we're discussing a black immigrant cop who shot a blond white woman, but still mildly surprising, and quite just.
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Old 1st May 2019, 01:03 AM   #1024
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News reports of a possible 20 year sentence. Do it hard Noor.
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Old 1st May 2019, 03:14 AM   #1025
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Good news on the verdict.
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Old 1st May 2019, 04:56 AM   #1026
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
News reports of a possible 20 year sentence. Do it hard Noor.
News speculation of possible sentences are almost always worthless. Ken White (Popehat) has been railing against this lazy and misleading journalism for years.

https://www.popehat.com/2013/03/26/c...**-journalism/

Briefly: Journalists often report the maximum possible statutory sentence without mentioning that the likely sentence is going to be much lower.
Reporting on possible sentencing is so bad it might as well be ignored.
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Old 1st May 2019, 05:00 AM   #1027
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
News speculation of possible sentences are almost always worthless. Ken White (Popehat) has been railing against this lazy and misleading journalism for years.

https://www.popehat.com/2013/03/26/c...**-journalism/

Briefly: Journalists often report the maximum possible statutory sentence without mentioning that the likely sentence is going to be much lower.

Reporting on possible sentencing is so bad it might as well be ignored.
I get this. I’m just hoping for a seriously punitive sentence. I know I’ll probably be disappointed. Five years will be an insult.
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Old 1st May 2019, 06:26 AM   #1028
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I get this. I’m just hoping for a seriously punitive sentence. I know I’ll probably be disappointed. Five years will be an insult.
Serving any time at all will be a victory. See the cop who fired his weapon by accident in NYC and killed someone and was convicted on manslaughter, not anything that got time in prison of course.

Hell we recently had a judge give a rapist no prison time on the grounds that the 14 year old was the first person he is shown to have raped.
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Old 1st May 2019, 08:04 AM   #1029
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
.....
Hell we recently had a judge give a rapist no prison time on the grounds that the 14 year old was the first person he is shown to have raped.
That would be this case, right? Absolutely disgusting.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/n...watertown.html
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Old 1st May 2019, 08:11 AM   #1030
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
....
Briefly: Journalists often report the maximum possible statutory sentence without mentioning that the likely sentence is going to be much lower.
Reporting on possible sentencing is so bad it might as well be ignored.
More dumping on the press. The reporter accurately reports the maximum possible sentence because it is a matter of fact, and reflects the severity of the crime. The reporter will often also report the prosecution's and defense's recommendations and the established guidelines for similar offenses, and then will report the actual sentence when it is imposed. Is the reporter not supposed to say anything about the possible sentence or what?
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Old 1st May 2019, 09:32 AM   #1031
SuburbanTurkey
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
More dumping on the press. The reporter accurately reports the maximum possible sentence because it is a matter of fact, and reflects the severity of the crime. The reporter will often also report the prosecution's and defense's recommendations and the established guidelines for similar offenses, and then will report the actual sentence when it is imposed. Is the reporter not supposed to say anything about the possible sentence or what?
Mea Culpa.

Ken's comments about poor journalism have more to do with flashy reporting about federal crimes, not state crimes. Headlines like "Manafort faces 100 bajillion years" are the kind that he is talking about in the link. The link is broken, btw, because it contains profanity in the URL that automod edited.

Generally, in those federal cases, reporting the statutory maximum is bad journalism because sentencing guidelines are used narrow judicial discretion and those sentencing guidelines almost never approach the statutory max that is cited.

Seems Noor faces a fairly narrow sentencing range and the reporting is pretty fair in this case. Whoops.
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Old 23rd May 2019, 07:55 PM   #1032
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Judge releases Justine Damond Ruszczyk call and police bodycam footage after Mohamed Noor trial

Quote:
Australian woman Justine Damond Ruszczyk sounded worried when she called emergency services minutes before she was shot and killed by a police officer in Minneapolis.

Mohamed Noor was last month convicted of the third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter of Ms Damond Ruszczyk, who had called the police to report a possible rape in an alleyway behind her home in July 2017.

A judge has publicly released the audio of two calls Ms Damond Ruszczyk made to emergency services, as well as police bodycam footage, all of which were used as evidence during the trial.
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Old 7th June 2019, 12:22 AM   #1033
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Mohamed Noor makes bizarre request ahead of his sentencing for Justine Damonds murder

I understand that a lawyer is obliged to appeal sentencing for their client - but this is just an insult.

Noor suggests in a pre-sentence filing to the judge he turn himself in to a low-security correctional facility workhouse for a week on the date of Ms Damond’s death and the date of Ms Damond’s birth for the duration of his probation.

“This sentence honours the memory of Ms Rusczcyk and allows Mr Noor to continue to serve the city,” Noor’s lawyers, Thomas Plunkett and Peter Wold, wrote in their memorandum to the judge.
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Old 7th June 2019, 12:42 AM   #1034
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
I understand that a lawyer is obliged to appeal sentencing for their client - but this is just an insult.

Noor suggests in a pre-sentence filing to the judge he turn himself in to a low-security correctional facility workhouse for a week on the date of Ms Damond’s death and the date of Ms Damond’s birth for the duration of his probation.

“This sentence honours the memory of Ms Rusczcyk and allows Mr Noor to continue to serve the city,” Noor’s lawyers, Thomas Plunkett and Peter Wold, wrote in their memorandum to the judge.
This is just taking the piss and I expect it to be treated with contempt.
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Old 8th June 2019, 08:16 AM   #1035
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Judge didn't buy into it. Cop got 12.5 years.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/attorneys-...html?t47o3ytat
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Old 8th June 2019, 08:45 AM   #1036
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
See the cop who fired his weapon by accident in NYC and killed someone and was convicted on manslaughter, not anything that got time in prison of course.
If it was a case of white cop versus black person then it's a wonder the case ever got to trial.
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Old 8th June 2019, 03:27 PM   #1037
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Judge didn't buy into it. Cop got 12.5 years.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/attorneys-...html?t47o3ytat
A just sentence.
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