ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Minneapolis incidents , police incidents , police misconduct charges , shooting incidents

Reply
Old 17th July 2017, 08:05 PM   #121
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 34,961
Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
"Black Immigrant Shoots Blonde White Woman"
Yeah, the Republicans are going to have a field day with this.
Ten bucks says they don't.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2017, 08:07 PM   #122
Samson
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,215
Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
"Black Immigrant Shoots Blonde White Woman"
Yeah, the Republicans are going to have a field day with this.
What's wrong with

"Black Muslim Immigrant Shoots Attractive Young Blonde White Woman"
Samson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2017, 08:23 PM   #123
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,791
Latest update from the Minneapolis paper. Coroner says she died of one shot to abdomen. Cop has hired a lawyer, who says his client "takes these events very seriously."
http://www.startribune.com/minneapol...ied/434975623/
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2017, 08:29 PM   #124
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,791
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
The only website I've seen so far that describes this officer as a refugee is the stupid rag WND. Where are you getting your information from?
.....
The guy is in fact a Somali who came to the U.S. "at a young age." That would make him a refugee, unless maybe he got an H1b visa to work at Google.
http://www.startribune.com/what-we-k...ond/435018163/

Last edited by Bob001; 17th July 2017 at 08:31 PM.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2017, 08:35 PM   #125
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,719
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The guy is in fact a Somali who came to the U.S. "at a young age." That would make him a refugee, unless maybe he got an H1b visa to work at Google.
http://www.startribune.com/what-we-k...ond/435018163/
Far as I can tell that article does not contain the word refugee. If he traveled with refugee parents that would make him a refugee. If his parents arrived in the USA for any other reason, then that would make them something else. So where are you getting your information from to support your claim that he is a refugee?

Last edited by Ranb; 17th July 2017 at 08:40 PM.
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2017, 08:40 PM   #126
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,791
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Far as I can tell that article does not contain the word refugee.

This does:
Quote:
Starting in 1992, the U.S. began issuing refugee visas to thousands of Somalis. Many of them settled in Minneapolis and St. Paul and many more moved to the Twin Cities from other parts of the United States. Today, Minnesota is home to the largest Somali population in the U.S., estimated to be over 60,000 in 2010.
http://education.mnhs.org/immigratio...unities/somali
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2017, 08:42 PM   #127
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,719
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
So where does this say that all Somalis arriving were refugees?
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2017, 08:46 PM   #128
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,791
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
So where does this say that all Somalis arriving were refugees?
You're kidding, right? If it comforts you to believe that this particular guy -- unlike just about every other Somali in Minnesota -- arrived under some other circumstances, fine. Whatever they were, he just killed somebody.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2017, 08:50 PM   #129
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,719
I'm merely asking where you are getting your information from. Nothing about the man's origin is going to be of any "comfort" to me at all.

You seem to be willing to make up facts about this person instead of going with what you can verify. Why are you doing that? Why does it matter if he was a refugee at a young age or an immigrant?
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2017, 09:01 PM   #130
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,791
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I'm merely asking where you are getting your information from. Nothing about the man's origin is going to be of any "comfort" to me at all.

You seem to be willing to make up facts about this person instead of going with what you can verify. Why are you doing that? Why does it matter if he was a refugee at a young age or an immigrant?
A refugee IS an immigrant. Do you think "refugee" is pejorative? The point is that refugees are admitted under specific circumstances for specific purposes, as opposed to other categories of immigration. If you think a refugee from an African civil war might be less prepared to assimilate into American society than, say, an Indian computer engineer or a Chinese scientist, that might be your prejudice showing, right?
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2017, 09:11 PM   #131
fuelair
Banned
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 58,582
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
There is an unassailable fact, Had he not been in LE he would not have killed this woman.
It is a form of accident.
I think society should have more tolerance for accidents.
But no tolerance for the NRA.
No tolerance for police "accidents"!!!
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2017, 09:16 PM   #132
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,719
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
A refugee IS an immigrant.
Tell that to Homeland Security then.
https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-stat...resident_alien
Quote:
Permanent Resident Alien - An alien admitted to the United States as a lawful permanent resident. Permanent residents are also commonly referred to as immigrants;
Quote:
Refugee - Any person who is outside his or her country of nationality who is unable or unwilling to return to that country because of persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution.

Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Do you think "refugee" is pejorative?
No.

Quote:
The point is that refugees are admitted under specific circumstances for specific purposes, as opposed to other categories of immigration.
You finally got something right.

Quote:
If you think a refugee from an African civil war might be less prepared to assimilate into American society than, say, an Indian computer engineer or a Chinese scientist, that might be your prejudice showing, right?
I would base the likelihood of assimilation on family ties, age of arrival, education level and other things besides race.

I'm asking where you've getting your information from and it seems you're bending over backwards to avoid telling me.

Last edited by Ranb; 17th July 2017 at 09:18 PM.
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2017, 09:38 PM   #133
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,791
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Tell that to Homeland Security then.
https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-stat...resident_alien

Someone applies to become a "lawful permanent resident" after arriving in the U.S. on a legal visa and living in the U.S. lawfully for years. He doesn't arrive as a "lawful permanent resident." Everybody who moves here from another country is an immigrant. His status his determined by the terms of his visa (or lack of one).

Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
.....
I'm asking where you've getting your information from and it seems you're bending over backwards to avoid telling me.
The vast majority of Somalis who came to the U.S. in the '90s arrived on refugee visas. Chances are high that this guy's family did, too. If this particular guy arrived some other way (say, his father was a distinguished professor of physics at the U. of Minnesota on a teaching fellowship), chances are we would know about it.

So I'm playing the odds. I don't get why you are so desperate to evade the word "refugee." I suspect we'll hear much more soon enough.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2017, 10:08 PM   #134
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 9,719
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
So I'm playing the odds. I don't get why you are so desperate to evade the word "refugee."
If you take another look at my posts you'll see that I'm actually trying to find the word refugee in the links provided; and for the most part if is not there. So it seems that when you say "playing the odds" it actually means using your imagination?

Quote:
I suspect we'll hear much more soon enough.
And you're unwilling to wait. Why?
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 01:28 AM   #135
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 20,942
Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
"Black Immigrant Shoots Blonde White Woman"
Yeah, the Republicans are going to have a field day with this.
Grist for the bigots here.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 02:22 AM   #136
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 23,481
Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
How wide was the road?

Not a road, exactly. It was an alley.

This alley.



Not a downtown type alley. This is the residential kind, found between the rear sides of homes in residential neighborhoods. There are no driveways or curb cuts on the street frontage where these homes are. This is how they get to their garages and private parking spaces.

This view is looking north from the 3000 block of W. 51st Street, immediately west of the intersection with the 5000 block of Washburn Ave. S. The homes to the right side of the screen face onto the 5000 block of Washburn Ave. S., where the Damond home is.

It is approx. where the shooting took place.

Here is a link to the Google Maps Street View, for a better full screen view. You can also pan around and get an idea of the neighborhood.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 02:45 AM   #137
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 20,942
"Baffling" and "a mystery" how a woman who called police got shot in her pjamas. "It doesnt make sense." - An Australian media perspective.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 03:03 AM   #138
Sergei Walankov
Thinker
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 187
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
What's wrong with

"Black Muslim Immigrant Shoots Attractive Young Blonde White Woman"
How about "blue state's insane politically correct police recruitment policies leave white women at the mercy of uniformed foreign terrorists?"
Sergei Walankov is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 03:06 AM   #139
Sergei Walankov
Thinker
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 187
Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
How is the person "ill informed"? If the woman said that and he's just repeating what she said, how is the "ill informed"?
And even if he wasn't, in what sense is it ill-informed? How is it not true that things aren't much better in Australia, where people aren't allowed to have guns?

Last edited by Sergei Walankov; 18th July 2017 at 03:07 AM.
Sergei Walankov is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 03:17 AM   #140
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,482
Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Yes, unless she was beating on the window of the car with a stick, I seriously hope it was just an accidental discharge, and not the passenger cop shooting her for reaching for her ID at the instruction of the driver-cop.

Reaching for ID is not justification for shooting someone intentionally.
OF course it is, that has been demonstrated in minnesota quite effectively.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 03:21 AM   #141
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,482
Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
And you want to take guns away from people ? They need it against the police in the first place ..
But it just gives them an excuse to kill you. Has having a gun ever helped someone in an interaction with a violent cop?
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 03:24 AM   #142
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,482
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
It's not that they "got off."

Depending on jurisdiction, either a grand jury or some other deliberative body found that th officer, like anyone else would be in the same situation, was reasonbly in fear of his life or some other individuals' life when he fired his duty weapon.

It ain't perfect, but that's they way it works.
Like when a black man legally owns a gun, that is a perfectly valid reason for a police officer to panic and kill them. This is Minnesota after all. That is not even wrong, because if it was why did they need to pay him off to fire him?

It is like that officer who found it funny to spray pepper spray at the seated college students. Nothing really wrong there either. IF it was they wouldn't have needed to pay the officer so much.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 03:27 AM   #143
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,482
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Z was an aberration
If by that you mean hero to gun owners, sure. He was a popular guest on the gun show circuit and made a lot of money selling the weapon to collectors who really want a black kids body attached to weapons they own.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 03:31 AM   #144
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,482
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
You're correct on all counts. If the facts are as what is being reported, the officer violated not just one but two basic safety rules.

The reality is that you can train troops or officers all day long, and as soon as they get out of your sight, some of them will ignore all of your instruction.

It's bad enough when they kill themselves:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...lf-2547628.php

"San Francisco police Officer James Gustafson Jr. was just getting started on what he intended to be a career in law enforcement when he accidentally shot himself to death as he socialized with friends at his apartment, his father and authorities said Monday."

When they kill an innocent person or their partner it's even worse.
That is not a big deal, or even wrong, just the price we have to pay to have a properly armed society. And we should pay it joyously. It makes us a better nation.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 03:32 AM   #145
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,482
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
There is an unassailable fact, Had he not been in LE he would not have killed this woman.
It is a form of accident.
I think society should have more tolerance for accidents.
But no tolerance for the NRA.
Exactly, guns often just go off for no reason. We need to accept that.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 03:35 AM   #146
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,482
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
That would make sense if the USA was the wild west. Things need to get a lot worse before I treat everyone as hostile.
And why you would never make it as a modern cop.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 03:37 AM   #147
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,482
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
The only website I've seen so far that describes this officer as a refugee is the stupid rag WND. Where are you getting your information from?
I think you answered your own question in the first sentence.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 03:39 AM   #148
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,482
Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
No tolerance for police "accidents"!!!
Why we show lots of tolerance for other accidents from firearms owners.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 04:58 AM   #149
Drewbot
Philosopher
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,020
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
OF course it is, that has been demonstrated in minnesota quite effectively.
You can still think something is not justified, even if a jury finds it to be justified.
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 05:03 AM   #150
Drewbot
Philosopher
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,020
Has there even been a comment as to what actually happened?

The scenarios that are possible in my mind (add more if you have any)

1. Had his gun out, on his lap, realized she wasn't a threat, reached to put it back in it's holster discharged it.

2. Thought she was threatening the driver, reaching in her pocket, and leaned over firing once into the woman through the door. (Most cops are taught to shoot more than once, which leads me to #1 being more accurate, BUT, he was firing close to his partner which may have caused him to shoot only once.)

3. She was actually threatening the driver, and he fired once killing her.
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 05:11 AM   #151
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 26,019
Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
You can still think something is not justified, even if a jury finds it to be justified.
Sure, juries can be easily mislead depending on their members' personal bias and/or what information is presented to them.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 05:15 AM   #152
Drewbot
Philosopher
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,020
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ea9_1500323077

Audio of the dispatch during the incident.

Someone says they heard several shots, then someone says they think some of them were aerial fireworks.

Did he shoot her because of fireworks going off in the area?

Very sad
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 05:24 AM   #153
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,482
Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
You can still think something is not justified, even if a jury finds it to be justified.
Juries are the arbiters of fact. It is now a fact that an average rational person will be terrified at the thought of a legal black gun owner.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 05:26 AM   #154
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,482
Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
3. She was actually threatening the driver, and he fired once killing her.
How does an unarmed person in pajama's make life threatening actions to someone in a car?
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 05:30 AM   #155
Drewbot
Philosopher
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,020
I disagree. The Jury had a specific burden of proof to reach. Unlike other situations, the case you are referring to was a police officer, and they are much harder to convict because of specific instructions given to juries in these types of cases. It has less to do with being afraid of black men with guns, and more to do with giving officers the benefit of the doubt.

Quote:
JOSEPH KENNEDY: Well, I actually wasn't that surprised by the Castile verdict. Jurors in the Castile case were instructed, you know, to judge the use of force from the perspective of the police officer. The jury instruction specifically cautions them against using 20/20 vision of hindsight. And then the jury instruction also sort of primes jurors to think even more specifically about the - from the police officer's point of view - tells them police officers have to make split-second decisions about the use of force under circumstances that are tense, uncertain, rapidly evolving. So the law sort of definitely favors the police. The jury instructions favor the police in use of force cases. These cases are hard for prosecutors to win.
http://www.npr.org/2017/06/17/533368...ndo-castile-ca
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 05:33 AM   #156
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 82,304
Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
A good movie combined with a great Chrissie Hynde song
I thought you were refering the Iron Maiden song of the same name.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 05:33 AM   #157
Drewbot
Philosopher
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,020
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
How does an unarmed person in pajama's make life threatening actions to someone in a car?
Reaching in the window trying to get the driver's weapon?

Why are you acting like this?
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 05:38 AM   #158
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 34,961
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
How does an unarmed person in pajama's make life threatening actions to someone in a car?
Reaching into the car and grabbing their partner's gun.

This signature is intended to irradiate people.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 05:38 AM   #159
fuelair
Banned
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 58,582
Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
You can still think something is not justified, even if a jury finds it to be justified.
Depends on the makeup of the jury. But, certainly!!!!!
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2017, 05:42 AM   #160
fuelair
Banned
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 58,582
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Juries are the arbiters of fact. It is now a fact that an average rational person will be terrified at the thought of a legal black gun owner.
I must be well above average. It does not come close to terrifying me.

Also, juries are not arbiters of fact. Very often they are trying/having to sift through the lies and purposefully misleading statements of prosecutor and/or defendant's lawyer.
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:51 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.