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Old 2nd May 2019, 11:03 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yes. And they have been gone for over a half century.
No, they haven't. They have not been openly in charge of a country for over a half century. But the ideology has existed continuously. Surely you don't think it was completely extinct until some random loser opened a book about Hitler one day and said "hey that sounds cool".
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Old 2nd May 2019, 11:04 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I'm essentially lobbying pacifism, here. Trying to work out how I'm the unreasonable one.
Pacifism is inherently unreasonable.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 11:05 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
In what relevant ways are they different?
Will respond later. It's like 2:15AM here. Thermal zombified
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Old 2nd May 2019, 11:05 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I'm essentially lobbying pacifism, here. Trying to work out how I'm the unreasonable one.
Lets beat guns into chickenwire!
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Old 2nd May 2019, 11:08 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Lets beat guns into chickenwire!
And then let's use that chickenwire to build a fence that will most certainly keep the nazis out.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 11:14 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Pacifism is inherently unreasonable.
I don't think that's true; I just don't think of egging a Nazi as particularly hawkish.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 11:22 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I don't think that's true
I think it is. Don't get me wrong here, I hate violence, but we are going to keep beating eachother like the dumb apes we are. That's just reality.

So if you're gonna beat someone, beat a nazi! Nothing of value will be lost.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 11:50 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
If - hypothetically speaking - I were to advocate that every member of this forum kill any self-styled nazi wherever they may find them, (the more painful, the better), would that be acceptable? It's just words.
I am assuming the person in the video does identify as a Nazi. That means he wants me to be rounded up and killed along with millions of my fellow citizens. There is no getting around that. Personally I do not understand why people advocating for millions of their fellow citizens to be killed are allowed to do so. Inciting murder of millions of your fellow citizens should always be illegal.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 11:53 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I've said before and I'll say it again. Those who claim Bush/Trump/insert politician here are Nazis are not minimizing the evil of the real (1930s-1940s) Nazis, or trying to maximize the supposed evil of the politicians they hate. They are trying to puff themselves up into the equivalent of the White Rose Society back in Nazi Germany (who were beheaded for their efforts). So too it is with the antifa clowns and those who talk bravely about how they'd punch a Nazi on the street.



It's pathetic, really, almost as pathetic as the current crop of Nazi wannabes.
What has this got to do with the self identifying Nazi in the video?
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Old 3rd May 2019, 12:03 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
But it's gaining popularity lately. No one is checking the video date of submission. People see the yuk value, and ape it for their own vid, and if they choose their targets poorly, there is a whole 'nuther kind of news story headlining. Not the kind of thing we should be cheering.
Is it? Doesn't seem to be the case in the UK at least, we used to see mainstream politicians being egged, custard pie d and so on quite regularly.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 12:40 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
But it's gaining popularity lately. No one is checking the video date of submission. People see the yuk value, and ape it for their own vid, and if they choose their targets poorly, there is a whole 'nuther kind of news story headlining. Not the kind of thing we should be cheering.
I think you mis-spelled "Oops, you're right the incident that I stated was inspired by this Nazegging was actually long before it. My bad."

You can't argue the slippery slope about events that have already happened.
That'd be like the Antifa side arguing that we need to stand up to the skinheads and right wing because if we don't, pretty soon Germany will be annexing the Sudetenland.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 12:45 AM   #172
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To fight Nazis and all other forms of totalitarian Big Truth, it would be nice to have a clear understanding of how to derive democracy* and human rights from first principles. Essentially, how to replace the Declaration of Independence with something a tad more substantial and that does not depend on the epically lame concept of "natural rights", which dangerously backdoors absolutist argument.

Because any such derivation would not represent absolute truths, rather, reasoned argument that can be subscribed to by a given community or nation, it will be comprised of logic representing how to place those principles into practice in the form of governance and law. This means there are ample opportunities for identifying those creeds, ideologies, and practices that directly oppose, undermine or contradict principles, law, and good practice. Including Nazis and strutting Theists. However, today's discourse mostly relies on fuzzy notions coming from the Utopian Freedom Gospel (neofeudalism in friendly guise), such that any sort of initial argument is immediately pelted by alt-right crazies as being against "liberty", or by extreme left weirdos who think fair rules must result in uniform outcomes, their very own Utopian Equality Gospel.

If you wish to take down that sort of nonsense, you need to go beyond one-liners and declarations signalling virtue and publicly stick your neck out. A simple, basic approach would already provide immediate answers to those claiming women or minorities are not equal on some measure, real or imagined. Ditto for understanding that those things which directly contradict foundational logic are, gosh, incompatible with it. Even democracy, especially democracy, must have clear boundaries and an agreed playing field. It is patently absurd to assert that "all ideas are, like, cool man" as would the falsely Virtuous Left, or that "my freedoms are God-given and can only be understood my way," as does the salivating Rabid Right.

But!! Get your work right, and you may yet strangely find few agree with you, especially in the much-vaunted West. The dark secret all these years? Democracy is popularly sought when it can be seen as key to greater prosperity, not so much when it is perceived to stand in the way of the wealth or well-being of a community: I give you the Republican Party. The shocking lessons coming home this century are that Christians are Satanists, and "freedom fighters" wish to be able to kill freely and sack all that is not tied down.

Meaning, those who do subscribe to democracy and human rights have decades of propaganda and loose thinking to overcome. At this juncture, the Anglo Saxon world is almost drowned in its own self-serving crap, and no one else seems to be up to the task. Meanwhile, great strides are being taken by totalitarians to their great advantage. We are witnessing the end of an experiment at a time at which the means to suppress anything resembling democracy are vast and powerful. Perhaps a tad more effort would be a good idea.


*And, of course, republics, one form of democracy, so alt-righters: buzz off with those lame, grade school objections and "concepts". Got your number.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 01:34 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Sure, I'll admit it as long as you admit that you're condoning someone literally ******* insulting other races merely because they "think" they're superior. Hate speech, while it may be protected, doesn't mean it's condoned.

This whiny ******** defense needs to stop.

Yes, I'm ok with people that are inherently racist getting egged. Maybe not physically assaulted, but this is pretty harmless. I noticed you and Thermal aren't ******* crying about the people that suffered emotionally from some ******* glorifying people that killed millions.

Get the **** out of here with that nonsense. It's weak as hell.
You are responding to me sure in the knowledge that I'm condoning Nazis and hate speech, and all the while I'm failing to acknowledge the emotional suffering that many may suffer from somebody espousing Nazi views. That would be strong position to argue from if you hadn't completely made it all up. How could you possibly arrive at those conclusions from what I wrote?

Can I attempt to clarify things?

I'm interested to know why you and others herein condone violence against those who hold different views to you? It seems that you, in particular, have some sort of scale in play, based on how extreme those views are. Does that sound right?

An egg or two and the theft of personal property is in order. Does that sound right too? You're not too happy about physical violence so that's a plus, although you don't outright condemn it

At what point does the egg and theft come in to play? Is it right off the bat or maybe after some discourse? Do you up the anti until the other person changes their opinion to something more agreeable?

I've no time for politics of any colour and can't see the difference, for example, between antifa and nazi's. I will admit to a very naive view of the politcal spectrum, so perhaps I'm not your target audience. I did notice some pretty tough "speaking" in your response to me; should I expect a literal egging or is it a literal punch in the chops as you try to educate me?
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Old 3rd May 2019, 01:45 AM   #174
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Theft of his personal belongings? Are we talking about his Nazi flag?
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Old 3rd May 2019, 02:21 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
You are responding to me sure in the knowledge that I'm condoning Nazis and hate speech, and all the while I'm failing to acknowledge the emotional suffering that many may suffer from somebody espousing Nazi views. That would be strong position to argue from if you hadn't completely made it all up. How could you possibly arrive at those conclusions from what I wrote?

Can I attempt to clarify things?

I'm interested to know why you and others herein condone violence against those who hold different views to you? It seems that you, in particular, have some sort of scale in play, based on how extreme those views are. Does that sound right?

An egg or two and the theft of personal property is in order. Does that sound right too? You're not too happy about physical violence so that's a plus, although you don't outright condemn it

At what point does the egg and theft come in to play? Is it right off the bat or maybe after some discourse? Do you up the anti until the other person changes their opinion to something more agreeable?

I've no time for politics of any colour and can't see the difference, for example, between antifa and nazi's. I will admit to a very naive view of the politcal spectrum, so perhaps I'm not your target audience. I did notice some pretty tough "speaking" in your response to me; should I expect a literal egging or is it a literal punch in the chops as you try to educate me?
Why is it that this dishonest framing gets repeated over and over again?
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Old 3rd May 2019, 02:54 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yes. They are not brownshirts. Swastikas are a symbol of white power punks. Hell, Miki Dora wore one, as a lot of people do for their shock value. These guys are not the gassing reich nazis. They're just white guys with penis problems. Don't make them so much more than they are. They're just losers.
How can you tell?
What is your cut off point?
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Old 3rd May 2019, 02:55 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Yeah political violence is very nice and fun when it's against people you happen to disagree with, isn't it?

The mature way to express disapproval of one's political opponents is with words, certainly not with punches or eggs. Then you'd be acting like a thug and we don't need to encourage thuggery, even if it's against "acceptable victims".
Words are all very well but when they are kicking down your neighbours door and dragging them off to a camp or it comes to your turn what words will you use?
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Old 3rd May 2019, 03:00 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
There's a line in there between the all-talk poser and the mass killer. It's a very broad line. This guy in the OP looks solidly on the all-talk side of it. I don't equate this type with mass murderers. Wearing some cheap bling from Amazon does not a monster make.
How can you tell?
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Old 3rd May 2019, 03:01 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Thermal, you said it in a previous post - rationalizing. This thread is a perfect example of it.

Man injured by egging is "grateful" egg didn't hit daughter


https://ktvl.com/news/local/man-inju...t-hit-daughter


How could anyone think you can't get injured by an egg in the face? Let me throw one at you full force and find out. Gawd some people are just stupid.

Pretty soon it'll be okay for conservatives to get egged because, well everyone says Trump is a Nazi so anyone who votes for him is a legit target.

Pathetic display here folks. Way too much emotion and asterisks, not enough actual thought.

I am glad he was hurt, maybe he will learn something from it and stop parading round in Nazi regalia.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 03:05 AM   #180
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They need to be driven off the streets.

Battle of Cable Street.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cable_Street

Which side would you be on?
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Old 3rd May 2019, 03:22 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Theft of his personal belongings? Are we talking about his Nazi flag?
Yes, it is his isn't it? It was taken off of him without his agreement wasn't it?
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Old 3rd May 2019, 03:24 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Why is it that this dishonest framing gets repeated over and over again?
Ok, I let you fill in the blanks then.

"you and others herein condone violence against those who........."
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Old 3rd May 2019, 03:28 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
I am glad he was hurt, maybe he will learn something from it and stop parading round in Nazi regalia.
The guy who was walking along the road with his two year old daughter in the news piece that was linked? You're glad he was hurt? You saw him dressed in Nazi regalia in that report?

I think in your rush to show everybody how you feel you didn't even click that link. I'm right, aren't I?

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Old 3rd May 2019, 03:38 AM   #184
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Ghandi was weak to some here
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Old 3rd May 2019, 03:40 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Ok, I let you fill in the blanks then.

"you and others herein condone violence against those who........."
...disagree with them.


Sorry I mean ...who are Nazis.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 03:42 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Ghandi was weak to some here
Yes because if we had followed his advice we would have won WW2 so much more easily.

From his letter to 'Every Briton' in 1940

"I want you to fight Nazism without arms, or, if I am to retain the military terminology, with non-violent arms.' I would like you to lay down the arms you have as being useless for saving you or humanity. "
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Old 3rd May 2019, 03:43 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Ghandi was weak to some here
And what do you think? Its easy to snipe and never put your ideas up for examination.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 03:45 AM   #188
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How well would his tactics have worked if it was the Nazi's he was using them against?
He would have been a dead man as would his followers.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 04:03 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Yes, it is his isn't it? It was taken off of him without his agreement wasn't it?
Shocking stuff.

That was sarcasm. I mean **** the Nazi and his Nazi paraphernalia.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 04:38 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Shocking stuff.
Is it? What point are you trying to make? You asked me for clarification and I gave it to you.

Quote:
That was sarcasm.
It was? What was the point, edgelordism?

Quote:
"I mean **** the Nazi and his Nazi paraphernalia.
Clearly hate speech isn't a issue with you, you're very adept at it. You lack emotional control on this subject I have to note.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 04:44 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Is it? What point are you trying to make? You asked me for clarification and I gave it to you.



It was? What was the point, edgelordism?



Clearly hate speech isn't a issue with you, you're very adept at it. You lack emotional control on this subject I have to note.
Ahhh “hate” plus “speech” must mean hating stuff I guess? No, that is sarcasm too. Google the term and get up to speed.

The rise of white supremacy, xenophobia and Islamophobia is a concern to me, but I would not mistake swear words directed at Nazis as a loss of emotional control. Thanks for the concern though.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 04:50 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Ok, I let you fill in the blanks then.

"you and others herein condone violence against those who........."
Try this:
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Writing off fascism as a mere differing of opinions misses quite a lot. The promotion of nazism is advocacy of violence. We're not talking about disagreeing over tax policy, here.

Why should I care about an egg on his head when he wants to do significantly worse to millions of people?
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Old 3rd May 2019, 05:06 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Ahhh “hate” plus “speech” must mean hating stuff I guess? No, that is sarcasm too. Google the term and get up to speed.
I don't need to google the term since I'm familiar with it. You on the other hand....

Quote:
The rise of white Christian supremacy and xenophobia is a concern to me, but I would not mistake swear words directed at Nazis as a loss of emotional control. Thanks for the concern though.
I'm not concerned, I'm more.....mildly amused at your efforts. What have you achieved up to now to halt this "rise of white Christian supremacy and xenophobia" by writing sweary words on the internet and declaring your disdain of Nazi's and Nazi paraphernalia? Are you stocking up on eggs?

Keep up the good work.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 05:27 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Is it? Doesn't seem to be the case in the UK at least, we used to see mainstream politicians being egged, custard pie d and so on quite regularly.
Didn't some guy just get 28 days in jail for an egging ?
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Old 3rd May 2019, 05:33 AM   #195
I Am The Scum
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
I've no time for politics of any colour and can't see the difference, for example, between antifa and nazi's.
I found the problem.

The nazis are the ones who advocate ethnic genocide. Antifa are the ones who oppose it. Hope that clears things up for you.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 05:35 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I'm essentially lobbying pacifism, here. Trying to work out how I'm the unreasonable one.
I don't think you are.

I believe in avoiding unnecessary violence. I don't think it's necessary to assault nazis who are exercising speech rights. One reason I don't think it's necessary is because I don't think these actions accomplish anything positive. If it doesn't accomplish anything positive, it's not necessary.

However if you (the general you) think it is necessary to assault nazis in these sort of situations, minimally I expect you to concurrently be taking certain actions so that it wouldn't be necessary. You should be committed to advocacy for new laws* that make it illegal to espouse nazi ideology. If you are not a committed advocate for such laws, and yet you advocate this sort of violent act, I tend to think you're more about visceral pleasure and vigilantism than accomplishing anything positive. I don't respect that.

* Preemptively, I don't advocate for such laws
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Last edited by varwoche; 3rd May 2019 at 06:28 AM.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 05:36 AM   #197
bluesjnr
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
I found the problem.

The nazis are the ones who advocate ethnic genocide. Antifa are the ones who oppose it. Hope that clears things up for you.
I really, honestly could not care less. The impact of both amounts to zero.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 06:11 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
People who you happen to disagree with who happen to flaunt genocide symbols and white supremacy minority hate messages.

“People you happen to disagree with” is an utterly dishonest framing that trivialises what is being opposed.
That's where you are wrong. The fact that their views are extreme, if not outright murderous, doesn't excuse using violence against those that hold such views. If they start to enact their views then it's quite likely violence would be an acceptable response.

Seriously, don't ******* hurt people or use violence unless you absolutely have too. Is that so god damn difficult for people to understand? It's exactly in these kinds of situations that peoples masks start to slip and they begin revealing what they really want.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 06:25 AM   #199
bluesjnr
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
That's where you are wrong. The fact that their views are extreme, if not outright murderous, doesn't excuse using violence against those that hold such views. If they start to enact their views then it's quite likely violence would be an acceptable response.

Seriously, don't ******* hurt people or use violence unless you absolutely have too. Is that so god damn difficult for people to understand? It's exactly in these kinds of situations that peoples masks start to slip and they begin revealing what they really want.
To be fair some people aren't overly concerned about hiding their feelings and are openly and without shame, advocating for violence. They are arguing that such proposed violence is not simply for the sake of it but for some higher public good but I'm not convinced.

I suppose the Nazi's can take solace in the fact that a bunch of internet twerps are getting roused up fer fightin'...... sometime.....maybe.

As I said earlier, they should keep up the good work.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 06:32 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Is it? Doesn't seem to be the case in the UK at least, we used to see mainstream politicians being egged, custard pie d and so on quite regularly.

If the crust isn't too hard, this might actually be a viable alternative for those who fear that egg shells may hurt the the Nazis' eyes.
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