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Old 29th May 2019, 04:34 PM   #1
Vixen
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"London is no longer an English City"

...Says actor and writer John Cleese, best known as Basil Fawlty and Monty Python stalwart.

Quote:
London Mayor Sadiq Khan has criticised John Cleese after the Fawlty Towers legend said the capital was "not really an English city any more".

The former Monty Python star tweeted: "Virtually all my friends from abroad have confirmed my observation. So there must be some truth in it..."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48451384


Is there such a thing as an 'English city' or is Cleese using code for , 'too many immigrants'. Or does he have a fair point and is being censored?
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Old 29th May 2019, 04:39 PM   #2
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I guess Cleese is losing it in his old age...........
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Old 29th May 2019, 04:55 PM   #3
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I suppose he means:

“At the 2011 census, 36.7% of London's population was foreign born (including 24.5% born outside of Europe). With 3,082,000 residents born abroad in 2014. London has the largest population number (not percentage) of foreign-born residents of any UK city.”

Or maybe (as Cleese probably is visiting the central areas):

“Statistics show London's inner boroughs have a far higher immigrant population than its outer boroughs and there is also a clear trend of people of certain nationalities moving to boroughs already heavily-populated by their fellow countrymen.

Brent and Haringey have the highest proportion of foreign-born residents at 53.3 per cent, followed by Kensington and Chelsea and Westminster, on 51.8 per cent and 50.9 per cent respectively, according to the Mayor of London's Data Store. “


So, while the comments could be motivated by racism, it could also be that large demographic changes can change neighborhood character (not necessarily good or bad, but different).

London reminds me of New York. Vibrant, entertaining, lively, good food ... not necessarily the most English of places.
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Old 29th May 2019, 04:56 PM   #4
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Well he can't have been censored by definition, even in theory, since his comments haven't been deleted. Disagreement, even resounding vocal disagreement, is not censorship.

I find it entirely plausible that Cleese didn't intend to refer to race OR immigrants with his comment as he claims, and simply chose his words badly. Now Leavers are trying to hold him up as speaking truth to their cause and "making the libs mad" when as far as I'm aware, Cleese is fairly liberal and not by any means anti-immigrant.
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Old 29th May 2019, 04:56 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I guess Cleese is losing it in his old age...........
Well, pining for the way things used to be is pretty common. However, I do find it amusing that he does it from his home on the island of Nevis.
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Old 29th May 2019, 05:41 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post

London reminds me of New York. Vibrant, entertaining, lively, good food ... not necessarily the most English of places.
Same here. My wife and I stayed in Shepherds Bush for several weeks are we were struck firstly about how massively diverse the population was and secondly about how well everybody seemed to get on. My local pub, The Green, also reflected the diversity of the place - there were a few non-QPR fans.
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Old 29th May 2019, 05:49 PM   #7
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"London is no longer an English City"

I heard they were thinking about moving it
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Old 29th May 2019, 05:50 PM   #8
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I guess it doesn't matter nowadays what you're actually saying, but what millions of clueless people think it means.

Which is why I don't waste my time with social media.
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Old 29th May 2019, 05:56 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I guess Cleese is losing it in his old age...........

I think it’s that irritating bouzouki music in all of the cheese shops now.
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Old 29th May 2019, 11:25 PM   #10
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From the link:
Quote:
"I suspect I should apologise for my affection for the Englishness of my upbringing, but in some ways I found it calmer, more polite, more humorous, less tabloid, and less money-oriented than the one that is replacing it," he wrote.

The guy is 79. It doesn't sound like racism as much as pining for a lost age.
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Old 29th May 2019, 11:28 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Is there such a thing as an 'English city' or is Cleese using code for , 'too many immigrants'. Or does he have a fair point and is being censored?
He moved to st.Kitts and Nevis due to the "awful Brexit debate", "lying right-wing governments" and such. The country is almost 99% black. He backed Leave, but he also backed electoral and press reform, which were shot down, in his own words "by right-wing governments".

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...l-brexit-vote/

“Relationships between the races is absolutely superb, the people there are really kind. The children and adults are extraordinarily well educated and the weather is good."

He backed Leave, because:
“I don’t want to be ruled by Brussels bureaucrats who want to create a super state. I was pro-Brexit for that reason.

https://www.screendaily.com/news/joh...120947.article

The Monty Python and Fawlty Towers star admitted that “it will be five years before we know if it was a good thing or a bad thing, or if it will be a hard of soft exit”, but added that he supported the possibility of the latter option.

Does that seem like someone greatly concerned about the evil immigrants to you? I think we're making judgments a bit too quickly about what the tweet is supposed to mean. I think he's not concerned about immigration in general but about Muslims in particular:

I think it's legitimate to prefer one culture to another

For example, I prefer cultures that do not tolerate female genital mutilation.

Will this will be considered racist by all those who hover, eagerly hoping that someone will offend them - on someone else's behalf, naturally


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Old 29th May 2019, 11:29 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
From the link:



The guy is 79. It doesn't sound like racism as much as pining for a lost age.
Yeah, agreed.
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Old 30th May 2019, 12:22 AM   #13
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Not at all racist:

Quote:
Cleese, who moved to the island of Nevis in the Caribbean in November last year, said: "It might interest those people who seem to think my remarks about London are racist as opposed to culturalist, to consider that what I like about spending time in Nevis.
Nevis has excellent race relations, a very well educated population, no sign of political correctness ... no sign of Rupert Murdoch, conscientious lawyers, a relaxed and humorous life style, a deep love of cricket, and a complete lack of knife crime. And, of course, wonderful weather."
(Evening Standard, May 30, 2019)

The only foreigners he seems to be worried about are Russian money launderers.
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Old 30th May 2019, 12:24 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Well, pining for the way things used to be is pretty common.
Pining for the fjords perhaps?
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Old 30th May 2019, 12:25 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Does that seem like someone greatly concerned about the evil immigrants to you?

No, not at all.

Quote:
I think we're making judgments a bit too quickly about what the tweet is supposed to mean. I think he's not concerned about immigration in general but about Muslims in particular:

Why do you think so? The quotation doesn't say that he's concerned about Muslims or Muslim immigrants.
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Old 30th May 2019, 12:53 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
From the link:



The guy is 79. It doesn't sound like racism as much as pining for a lost age.
Isn’t the heart of all reactionary xenophobia? Is he even pining though or just commenting on the fact that a demographic and cultural change has occurred? The stereotype of English meaning white skinned and bland food is from his generation.
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Old 30th May 2019, 01:03 AM   #17
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“I think it's legitimate to prefer one culture to another

For example, I prefer cultures that do not tolerate female genital mutilation.

Will this will be considered racist by all those who hover, eagerly hoping that someone will offend them - on someone else's behalf, naturally“

https://twitter.com/johncleese/statu...533793282?s=21

Now that is just Islamophobic dog whistling. Disappointing.
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Old 30th May 2019, 02:12 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
“I think it's legitimate to prefer one culture to another

For example, I prefer cultures that do not tolerate female genital mutilation.

Will this will be considered racist by all those who hover, eagerly hoping that someone will offend them - on someone else's behalf, naturally“

https://twitter.com/johncleese/statu...533793282?s=21

Now that is just Islamophobic dog whistling. Disappointing.
Are you sure? Maybe he just thinks FGM is bad.
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Old 30th May 2019, 02:26 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Hevneren View Post
Are you sure? Maybe he just thinks FGM is bad.
I like tea, crumpets football, stiff upper lip, politeness, royals, no sex culture.

I don’t like FGM culture.
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Old 30th May 2019, 02:43 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
“I think it's legitimate to prefer one culture to another

For example, I prefer cultures that do not tolerate female genital mutilation.

Will this will be considered racist by all those who hover, eagerly hoping that someone will offend them - on someone else's behalf, naturally“

https://twitter.com/johncleese/statu...533793282?s=21

Now that is just Islamophobic dog whistling. Disappointing.
FGM is pre-Islamic and from wiki;

Quote:
A 2013 UNICEF report identified 17 African countries in which at least 10 percent of Christian women and girls aged 15 to 49 had undergone FGM; in Niger 55 percent of Christian women and girls had experienced it, compared with two percent of their Muslim counterparts. The only Jewish group known to have practised it are the Beta Israel of Ethiopia. Judaism requires male circumcision, but does not allow FGM. FGM is also practised by animist groups, particularly in Guinea and Mali
I think it's safe to say that these religions will be represented in the melting pot that is London, so what is it? Non tolerance of FGM or pre-Islamophobia or Islamophobia or Christophobia or Beth Isrealophobia or maybe animistophobia?

Last edited by bluesjnr; 30th May 2019 at 02:46 AM.
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Old 30th May 2019, 02:47 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
I guess it doesn't matter nowadays what you're actually saying, but what millions of clueless people think it means.

Which is why I don't waste my time with social media.
Assuming millions of clueless people read your posts ....

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Old 30th May 2019, 03:05 AM   #22
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London is like many "powerhouse" cities quite unlike the rest of the country they happen to be in.
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Old 30th May 2019, 03:06 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
FGM is pre-Islamic and from wiki;



I think it's safe to say that these religions will be represented in the melting pot that is London, so what is it? Non tolerance of FGM or pre-Islamophobia or Islamophobia or Christophobia or Beth Isrealophobia or maybe animistophobia?
Agree but this perspective makes it all a bit random. But the stereotype is there and the reaction by some seems to obvious.
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Old 30th May 2019, 03:13 AM   #24
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I haven't lived there for about 35 years. I don't know that it was ever a particularly English city, but then which English city is or ever was for that matter? They are all pretty much unique.
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Old 30th May 2019, 03:21 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Not at all racist:




The only foreigners he seems to be worried about are Russian money launderers.
And it is good to live somewhere that you can do black face with out any worry about the PC police.
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Old 30th May 2019, 03:42 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
“I think it's legitimate to prefer one culture to another

For example, I prefer cultures that do not tolerate female genital mutilation.

Will this will be considered racist by all those who hover, eagerly hoping that someone will offend them - on someone else's behalf, naturally“

https://twitter.com/johncleese/statu...533793282?s=21

Now that is just Islamophobic dog whistling. Disappointing.
I think you're just proving he has a point. The link between FGB and Islam is contentious at best. A correlation of sorts exists, but may not be causal.

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Old 30th May 2019, 03:43 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
I think you're just proving he has a point.

McHrozni
What is the point as you see it?
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Old 30th May 2019, 04:12 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
I guess it doesn't matter nowadays what you're actually saying, but what millions of clueless people think it means.

Which is why I don't waste my time with social media.
BREAKING: Shemp believes that people on social media are idiots.



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Old 30th May 2019, 04:23 AM   #29
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It's OK by me I'm not English either.
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Old 30th May 2019, 04:48 AM   #30
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
What is the point as you see it?
That people who have a burning desire to be offended will see the comment "I like cultures that don't allow FGM as better to those that do" as offensive on behalf of others.

I have a nagging suspicion you're a shining example of that happening.

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Old 30th May 2019, 05:12 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
That people who have a burning desire to be offended will see the comment "I like cultures that don't allow FGM as better to those that do" as offensive on behalf of others.

I have a nagging suspicion you're a shining example of that happening.

McHrozni
But it is a tradition in London culture! Seriously this is some really weird digression.
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Old 30th May 2019, 05:22 AM   #32
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Isn't London the city founded by invading Italians, conquered by invading Germans, conquered again by invading Danes, conquered again by invading French, and after that the capital of rulers imported from Scotland, Holland, and Germany? The most English thing about the place is its lack of Englishness.
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Old 30th May 2019, 06:05 AM   #33
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Cleese has been coming out with this sort of guff for years, and is nothing surprising coming from someone who hasn't actually lived in the city for decades. The fact that he can claim "the complete lack of knife crime" in Saint Kitts and Nevis, when they have 9th highest homicide rate in the world, suggests very rose-tinted sunglasses....
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Old 30th May 2019, 06:22 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Cleese has been coming out with this sort of guff for years, and is nothing surprising coming from someone who hasn't actually lived in the city for decades. The fact that he can claim "the complete lack of knife crime" in Saint Kitts and Nevis, when they have 9th highest homicide rate in the world, suggests very rose-tinted sunglasses....
But are they using knives for it or proper guns?
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Old 30th May 2019, 07:41 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Well, pining for the way things used to be is pretty common. However, I do find it amusing that he does it from his home on the island of Nevis.
Which, as Paul Joseph Watson has pointed out, means Cleese is happy as part of a small (white) minority in someone else's country. This is a problem for leftists trying to paint him as racist for evincing a dislike of vibrant, multicultural 21st C. London; why would a racist want live in a majority black country?
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Old 30th May 2019, 07:44 AM   #36
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I assume he never lived in or visited the east end (and surrounds).
That's had various non-English groups landing there for centuries.
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Old 30th May 2019, 07:51 AM   #37
IsThisTheLife
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Cleese is exactly the kind of "old, white person" leftists say they want to see die off as quickly as possible. Actually, he's just a 'classical' liberal from the days before the word was coopted by the obnoxious ****s who use it now. Is anyone really going to try and claim that he has form as a "nationalist" (or "nazi" as the locals call them). No, they settle for the next best thing and (with their usual charm) try and demean him as "senile" or some-such.
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Old 30th May 2019, 08:13 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Which, as Paul Joseph Watson has pointed out, means Cleese is happy as part of a small (white) minority in someone else's country. This is a problem for leftists trying to paint him as racist for evincing a dislike of vibrant, multicultural 21st C. London; why would a racist want live in a majority black country?
I think he's more of a snob than a racist. He's happy to be a minority in someone else's country, but is irked by the thought of minorities in his own country of origin. It's the same hypocrisy as Brits who move to Spain because of "the immigrants" in the UK.
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Old 30th May 2019, 08:39 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Cleese is exactly the kind of "old, white person" leftists say they want to see die off as quickly as possible.
No, I'm happy for him to take his time. I trust that he'll get around to it eventually.
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Old 30th May 2019, 08:43 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Which, as Paul Joseph Watson has pointed out, means Cleese is happy as part of a small (white) minority in someone else's country. This is a problem for leftists trying to paint him as racist for evincing a dislike of vibrant, multicultural 21st C. London; why would a racist want live in a majority black country?
I don't know about black countries, but I know quite a few white men living in Thailand and spending their days ranting about immigrants and foreigners online.
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