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Old 30th May 2019, 08:50 AM   #41
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Pah London is totally English. Ask a foreigner to pronounce Southwark, Isleworth, Leicester Square, Chiswick, and Marylebone and you will realise how idiosyncratically English London is.
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Old 30th May 2019, 08:52 AM   #42
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London isn't a typical English city, but it probably never has been.

And it's changed in the 30 years I've known it. I don't so much notice that the faces have changed but the accents definitely have. In particular, compared with a generation ago, I much more often can't tell from a young Londoner's voice if they're black or white.
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Old 30th May 2019, 08:56 AM   #43
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Let's face it, Londonium just isn't the Roman city it once was anymore.
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Old 30th May 2019, 09:02 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Let's face it, Londonium just isn't the Roman city it once was anymore.
Bloody immigrants. Send then all back to Saxony. And Jutland. And Normandy. Etc.
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Old 30th May 2019, 09:04 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
No, I'm happy for him to take his time. I trust that he'll get around to it eventually.
Read in Cleese voice.
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Old 30th May 2019, 11:11 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Myles View Post
I think it’s that irritating bouzouki music in all of the cheese shops now.
But do they have cheese yet?
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Old 30th May 2019, 11:13 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
BREAKING: Shemp believes that people on social media are idiots.



Some people think just about everybody but themselves are idiots.....
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Old 30th May 2019, 11:14 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
London isn't a typical English city, but it probably never has been.

And it's changed in the 30 years I've known it. I don't so much notice that the faces have changed but the accents definitely have. In particular, compared with a generation ago, I much more often can't tell from a young Londoner's voice if they're black or white.
The Museum Of London (superb museum BTW) makes the point that London has always been a city of immigrants just as much as New York City is and has always a large "foreign" population.
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Old 30th May 2019, 11:27 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Which, as Paul Joseph Watson has pointed out, means Cleese is happy as part of a small (white) minority in someone else's country. This is a problem for leftists trying to paint him as racist for evincing a dislike of vibrant, multicultural 21st C.
Meanwhile, a problem with rightists is to take anything Paul Joseph Watson says as anything but a steaming pile of excrement. The man's a raving loon. At least pick a conservative with a straight mind.
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Old 30th May 2019, 11:47 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Meanwhile, a problem with rightists is to take anything Paul Joseph Watson says as anything but a steaming pile of excrement. The man's a raving loon. At least pick a conservative with a straight mind.
How delightfully eloquent and original your writing is, Belz, how distinctively yours.
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Old 30th May 2019, 12:43 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
I suppose he means:

“At the 2011 census, 36.7% of London's population was foreign born (including 24.5% born outside of Europe). With 3,082,000 residents born abroad in 2014. London has the largest population number (not percentage) of foreign-born residents of any UK city.”

Or maybe (as Cleese probably is visiting the central areas):

“Statistics show London's inner boroughs have a far higher immigrant population than its outer boroughs and there is also a clear trend of people of certain nationalities moving to boroughs already heavily-populated by their fellow countrymen.

Brent and Haringey have the highest proportion of foreign-born residents at 53.3 per cent, followed by Kensington and Chelsea and Westminster, on 51.8 per cent and 50.9 per cent respectively, according to the Mayor of London's Data Store. “


So, while the comments could be motivated by racism, it could also be that large demographic changes can change neighborhood character (not necessarily good or bad, but different).

London reminds me of New York. Vibrant, entertaining, lively, good food ... not necessarily the most English of places.
Ah but refugees and immigrants have always been arriving at London as their primary port of call, so it's not 'un-English' to have a lot of foreigners and ethnic minorities there, especially in the traditional East End which has always been a centre for new arrivals.
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Old 30th May 2019, 12:51 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
He moved to st.Kitts and Nevis due to the "awful Brexit debate", "lying right-wing governments" and such. The country is almost 99% black. He backed Leave, but he also backed electoral and press reform, which were shot down, in his own words "by right-wing governments".

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...l-brexit-vote/

“Relationships between the races is absolutely superb, the people there are really kind. The children and adults are extraordinarily well educated and the weather is good."

He backed Leave, because:
“I don’t want to be ruled by Brussels bureaucrats who want to create a super state. I was pro-Brexit for that reason.

https://www.screendaily.com/news/joh...120947.article

The Monty Python and Fawlty Towers star admitted that “it will be five years before we know if it was a good thing or a bad thing, or if it will be a hard of soft exit”, but added that he supported the possibility of the latter option.

Does that seem like someone greatly concerned about the evil immigrants to you? I think we're making judgments a bit too quickly about what the tweet is supposed to mean. I think he's not concerned about immigration in general but about Muslims in particular:

I think it's legitimate to prefer one culture to another

For example, I prefer cultures that do not tolerate female genital mutilation.

Will this will be considered racist by all those who hover, eagerly hoping that someone will offend them - on someone else's behalf, naturally


McHrozni
One difference in London of today compared to days of yore (Huguenots, Jews, East Europeans, Irish, etc) is that what has become really visible is the sheer number of women wearing burkas and habibs. Strangely, the men - apart from Friday at the Mosque - all look entirely western.

I suppose that could be disconcerting to those who haven't been to London for a while. It it is neither good nor bad but thinking makes it so.
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Old 30th May 2019, 12:52 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Not at all racist:




The only foreigners he seems to be worried about are Russian money launderers.
Hmmm. I wonder. In a population of >9m he is referring to a handful, maybe a dozen, Russian money launderers as being the culprits of a changing (yet still the same) London?

Sounds like justification.
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Old 30th May 2019, 12:53 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Pining for the fjords perhaps?
Heh, the fjords of Clapton Common.
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Old 30th May 2019, 12:55 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Isn’t the heart of all reactionary xenophobia? Is he even pining though or just commenting on the fact that a demographic and cultural change has occurred? The stereotype of English meaning white skinned and bland food is from his generation.
Well no, as Cleese has always come across as a smugly superior pompous git who looks down on the average Londoner anyway. Remember, the UK is based on class divisions more than anything else.
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Old 30th May 2019, 12:57 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
“I think it's legitimate to prefer one culture to another

For example, I prefer cultures that do not tolerate female genital mutilation.

Will this will be considered racist by all those who hover, eagerly hoping that someone will offend them - on someone else's behalf, naturally“

https://twitter.com/johncleese/statu...533793282?s=21

Now that is just Islamophobic dog whistling. Disappointing.
Yeah. Why mention FMG at all. What has it got to do with 'a changing London' when it is actually illegal.
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Old 30th May 2019, 01:01 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Isn't London the city founded by invading Italians, conquered by invading Germans, conquered again by invading Danes, conquered again by invading French, and after that the capital of rulers imported from Scotland, Holland, and Germany? The most English thing about the place is its lack of Englishness.
Italy and Germany did not exist in those days either.
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Old 30th May 2019, 01:03 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Which, as Paul Joseph Watson has pointed out, means Cleese is happy as part of a small (white) minority in someone else's country. This is a problem for leftists trying to paint him as racist for evincing a dislike of vibrant, multicultural 21st C. London; why would a racist want live in a majority black country?
Er, he has them waiting on him hand and foot at ridiculously low wages.
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Old 30th May 2019, 01:04 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
I assume he never lived in or visited the east end (and surrounds).
That's had various non-English groups landing there for centuries.
Yep. Currently predominantly Bangladeshi, hence the most fabulous selection of curry houses along Brick Lane.
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Old 30th May 2019, 01:13 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
London isn't a typical English city, but it probably never has been.

And it's changed in the 30 years I've known it. I don't so much notice that the faces have changed but the accents definitely have. In particular, compared with a generation ago, I much more often can't tell from a young Londoner's voice if they're black or white.
It's become very rude. No-one queues any more, it's a free for all. No-one says, 'excuse me, please' or bothers to get up when you want to past or even get out of the way at all. Shop assistants chat amongst themselves instead of serving you.

However, you still have the cheeky chappies with their quick repartee to brighten up the day of miserable commuters.
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Old 30th May 2019, 01:15 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Ah but refugees and immigrants have always been arriving at London as their primary port of call, so it's not 'un-English' to have a lot of foreigners and ethnic minorities there, especially in the traditional East End which has always been a centre for new arrivals.
This is true, but it is definitely increasing compared to previous decades (currently about double the proportion that it had been up to the 1990s). Don’t know what the numbers were in Cleese’s formative years (presumably 50s and 60s).
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Old 30th May 2019, 01:40 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Italy and Germany did not exist in those days either.
Do you frequently hear a whooshing sound coming from above?
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Old 30th May 2019, 01:52 PM   #63
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Old 30th May 2019, 02:19 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Do you frequently hear a whooshing sound coming from above?
So no point in commenting that all an Englishman is is a German who could swim.....
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Old 30th May 2019, 02:33 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
London reminds me of New York. Vibrant, entertaining, lively, good food ... not necessarily the most English of places.
Yup. Used be that you had not much of a choice - pork pies, jellied eels, fish & chips with curry or tomato sauce

Now, London is a food extravaganza - a virtual foodies paradise.
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Old 30th May 2019, 05:54 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Well no, as Cleese has always come across as a smugly superior pompous git who looks down on the average Londoner anyway. Remember, the UK is based on class divisions more than anything else.
Yes, well, iirc, Eric Idle on the Director's Special Edition of "Life of Brian" the scene where John Cleese is the Roman Centurion giving a Latin Lesson to Brian is the essential "John". According to Idle, John was that one uptight Latin teacher who would pull your ear in order to get a correct response out of you.
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Old 31st May 2019, 12:12 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
From the link:
The guy is 79. It doesn't sound like racism as much as pining for a lost age.
It’s not normal for this level of demographic change to be seen within anyone’s lifetime.

He’s speaking out of concern for his country and it’s based in culture but also race. It’s a racist statement he made, and that is a good thing.

It’s an invasion and it’s not just change, it’s change for the worse. There’s a reason the groups flooding London leave their home countries when given any chance to: their home countries are awful. They are awful because they’re full of people like them.

It’s okay, though. London will be well above 90% white again within the next 50 years.
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Old 31st May 2019, 03:55 AM   #68
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Got a milkshake craving.
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Old 31st May 2019, 04:47 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Er, he has them waiting on him hand and foot at ridiculously low wages.
When was it you visited him there?
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Old 31st May 2019, 04:57 AM   #70
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I highly recommend Holy Flying Circus, it's often very funny, in fact almost as good as the Pythons themselves on a good day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Flying_Circus
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Old 31st May 2019, 05:27 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yup. Used be that you had not much of a choice - pork pies, jellied eels, fish & chips with curry or tomato sauce

Now, London is a food extravaganza - a virtual foodies paradise.
Of course fish and chips as we know it was invented by Jewish immigrants and curry sauce can hardly be considered indigenous either .
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Old 31st May 2019, 05:46 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
... and curry sauce can hardly be considered indigenous either .
I doubt you'd find its equivalent anywhere else!
A bit like Chiken Tikka Masalla.
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Old 31st May 2019, 07:57 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Of course fish and chips as we know it was invented by Jewish immigrants and curry sauce can hardly be considered indigenous either .
I'll give you the fish and the curry sauce but the chips are a bit of a stretch.
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Old 31st May 2019, 11:16 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
London isn't a typical English city, but it probably never has been.

And it's changed in the 30 years I've known it. I don't so much notice that the faces have changed but the accents definitely have. In particular, compared with a generation ago, I much more often can't tell from a young Londoner's voice if they're black or white.
Multicultural London English, innit?

Actually living in London, it seems like hardly anyone is from here. I mean, I'm from Yorkshire...
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Old 31st May 2019, 11:22 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
One difference in London of today compared to days of yore (Huguenots, Jews, East Europeans, Irish, etc) is that what has become really visible is the sheer number of women wearing burkas and habibs. Strangely, the men - apart from Friday at the Mosque - all look entirely western.

I suppose that could be disconcerting to those who haven't been to London for a while. It it is neither good nor bad but thinking makes it so.
Less than 13% of London's population is Muslim, and while around half of them will be women, not all of them wear cover. Hijabs are not uncommon, but I can go months without seeing a niqab, and years without seen an actual burqa.
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Old 31st May 2019, 11:23 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
“I think it's legitimate to prefer one culture to another

For example, I prefer cultures that do not tolerate female genital mutilation.

Will this will be considered racist by all those who hover, eagerly hoping that someone will offend them - on someone else's behalf, naturally“

https://twitter.com/johncleese/statu...533793282?s=21

Now that is just Islamophobic dog whistling. Disappointing.
Shouldn't only those branches that practise fgm be offended?

And my level of caring at how offended they are is actually trying to go below 0.

It's like saying " I hate white people who burn crosses on people's lawn. " is talking of a specific subset.
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Old 31st May 2019, 11:24 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
I'll give you the fish and the curry sauce but the chips are a bit of a stretch.
The fish is Jewish, the chips Belgian, and the curry sauce Cantonese.
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Old 31st May 2019, 12:10 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Of course fish and chips as we know it was invented by Jewish immigrants and curry sauce can hardly be considered indigenous either .
Camden is interesting...it has become London's "Little Mexico" (because the Mexican Embassy is there) and it has given London something it has been lacking..at least on my previsou visits...decent Mexican food.
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Old 31st May 2019, 12:12 PM   #79
dudalb
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Cleese can always move back to his previous residence in Santa Barbara in California if he wants to live in an English city.....Santa Barbara has such a large ExPat British population that it's joking nickname is "Saint Barbara On Thames".
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Old 31st May 2019, 12:21 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Camden is interesting...it has become London's "Little Mexico" (because the Mexican Embassy is there) and it has given London something it has been lacking..at least on my previsou visits...decent Mexican food.
No diddly o! Baylor tells us that Camden is a "no go" area controlled by Muslims!

No tequila or beer with your taco, matey!
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