ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Trials and Errors
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

Reply
Old Yesterday, 01:44 PM   #3281
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 14,290
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You and Socrates: 'great minds think alike'.
Vixen - next time you present the factoid that the Italian Supreme Court found it as factual that Knox rubbed blood from her hands, here's your assignment:
1) Exactly when did that happen, choosing a time between Nov 1 at 6:50 pm to Nov 2 at 4:50 am?

2) Address that claim in the context of what Marasca-Bruno wrote in section 6.2: namely....
Quote:
6.2. Another error of judgment resides in the supposed irrelevance of the verification of the exact
hour of Kercherís death, considering sufficient the approximation offered by the examinations,
even if assumed as correct during the trial pohase.

With regards to this, Sollecitoís defense has reasons to appeal, since they signaled the necessity
of a concrete verification specifically in the evidential proceedings, every consequential
implication. Furthermore, the exact determination of the time of Kercherís death is an
inescapable factual prerequisite for the verification of the alibi offered by the defendant in course
of the investigation aiming to verify the possibility of his claimed presence in the house at via
della Pergola at the time of the homicide.
And for this reason an expert verification was
requested.

So, specifically on this point, it is fair to note a despicable carelessness during the preliminary
investigation phase.
It is sufficient to consider, in this regard, that the investigations carried out
by the CID had proposed a threadbare arithmetic mean between a possible initial time and a
possible final time of death (from approximately 6:50 PM on 1st November to 4:50 AM on the
next day) setting the hour of death approximately at 11-11:30 PM.
3. What does Marasca-Bruno mean, in law, that it is simply insufficient to calculate an arithmetic mean to suggest a time of death?
Take your time.
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:04 AM   #3282
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 16,756
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Vixen - next time you present the factoid that the Italian Supreme Court found it as factual that Knox rubbed blood from her hands, here's your assignment:
1) Exactly when did that happen, choosing a time between Nov 1 at 6:50 pm to Nov 2 at 4:50 am?

2) Address that claim in the context of what Marasca-Bruno wrote in section 6.2: namely....
3. What does Marasca-Bruno mean, in law, that it is simply insufficient to calculate an arithmetic mean to suggest a time of death?
Take your time.
It's just a load of mumbo-jumbo copied and pasted from p!ss poor lawyer and far-right fascist Sicilian-born mafia-sympathiser politician Giulia Bongiorno whose barrister oratory skills extend to waving a bunch of kitchen knives at the judges and screeching shrilly.
__________________
Then let the way appear, steps unto heav'n.
All that thou sendest me, in mercy giv'n.'
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:27 AM   #3283
Planigale
Illuminator
 
Planigale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,210
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
It is bizarre the way the Knox-haters have defended Rudy, the real killer and rapist, over the years. Remember, this is the guy who lied when he said he had been in the cottage "on a date" with the victim, which (continuing his self-serving lies) was his explanation for his DNA in her vagina.

The Nencini court had accepted one of his lies as true.... his claim that Knox had arrived in the middle of this date, knocking on the very door she had a key to so that the victim had had to let her in. Nencini said that it was true that Rudy had heard a row over rent money break out.

Not a Satanic rite, not a sex game gone wrong, not a dispute over household cleanliness.... Nencini had put aside all those former judicial truths to substitute his own, based on no one but Rudy.

Do lurkers here wonder how this case had gone off the rails from 2007 to 2015? Yet Vixen pins her defence of the real killer on the judicial truth that Rudy had never been charged with burglary, despite being found with a "burglary kit" in his posession in places he'd actually broken into.

This is how the guilter-nutters have rolled all these years. And if it takes defending the killer, so be it.
This in itself would be a good reason to dismiss the verdict of the Nencini court.
1) Contrary to Italian law the evidence of a 'witness' was introduced without the right of the defence to cross examine the witness. The court its self is literally introducing hearsay!
2) The court is acting as an inquisitorial court, a process that was supposed to have changed to an adversarial approach. The court introduces a motive that had not been presented by the prosecution. The reason why this is wrong is obvious. An argument introduced by the prosecution during a trial can be rebutted by the defence. (As the defence had obviously successfully done as the court did not accept the prosecution motive.) Instead after the hearing the judge introduces a new motivation based on hearsay giving the defence no opportunity to rebut.

Just this sentence in the long verdict is sufficient to render it unsafe. The only question really was whether the Supreme court would order yet another trial or as they did just dismiss the case on the grounds that there was insufficient evidence. (Meaning that they felt the prosecution should never have brought the case in the first place.)
Planigale is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 02:10 AM   #3284
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 14,290
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It's just a load of mumbo-jumbo copied and pasted from p!ss poor lawyer and far-right fascist Sicilian-born mafia-sympathiser politician Giulia Bongiorno whose barrister oratory skills extend to waving a bunch of kitchen knives at the judges and screeching shrilly.
True to form, you avoid those three questions, substituting ad hominem.
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 02:23 AM   #3285
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 9,020
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You and Socrates: 'great minds think alike'.
I'm not the one resorting to slandering Knox, Sollecito, Hellmann, Marasca, Conti and Vecchiotti, Peter Gill, Vinci, and every other expert who had spoken out about the lousy job the police did. That would be you, Quennell and the other handful of desperates over on TJMK.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 02:27 AM   #3286
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 9,020
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers."
(attributed to Socrates)

This certainly explains a lot.
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It's just a load of mumbo-jumbo copied and pasted from p!ss poor lawyer and far-right fascist Sicilian-born mafia-sympathiser politician Giulia Bongiorno whose barrister oratory skills extend to waving a bunch of kitchen knives at the judges and screeching shrilly.
Thank you for proving Socrates correct.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 03:17 AM   #3287
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 16,756
Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
This in itself would be a good reason to dismiss the verdict of the Nencini court.
1) Contrary to Italian law the evidence of a 'witness' was introduced without the right of the defence to cross examine the witness. The court its self is literally introducing hearsay!
2) The court is acting as an inquisitorial court, a process that was supposed to have changed to an adversarial approach. The court introduces a motive that had not been presented by the prosecution. The reason why this is wrong is obvious. An argument introduced by the prosecution during a trial can be rebutted by the defence. (As the defence had obviously successfully done as the court did not accept the prosecution motive.) Instead after the hearing the judge introduces a new motivation based on hearsay giving the defence no opportunity to rebut.

Just this sentence in the long verdict is sufficient to render it unsafe. The only question really was whether the Supreme court would order yet another trial or as they did just dismiss the case on the grounds that there was insufficient evidence. (Meaning that they felt the prosecution should never have brought the case in the first place.)
What nonsense.
__________________
Then let the way appear, steps unto heav'n.
All that thou sendest me, in mercy giv'n.'
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 03:19 AM   #3288
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 16,756
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
True to form, you avoid those three questions, substituting ad hominem.
You have an affinity to Bongiorno that you perceive it as a personal attack?
__________________
Then let the way appear, steps unto heav'n.
All that thou sendest me, in mercy giv'n.'
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 03:20 AM   #3289
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 16,756
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Thank you for proving Socrates correct.
Which part of it is 'slander'?

Cannot be slander if it is true or 'fair comment'.
__________________
Then let the way appear, steps unto heav'n.
All that thou sendest me, in mercy giv'n.'
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 03:45 AM   #3290
bagels
Master Poster
 
bagels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,169
Vixen must be right about this case cause lots of smart savvy people agree with her such as
bagels is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 03:56 AM   #3291
bagels
Master Poster
 
bagels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,169
Pictured: Me IRL talking about the Knox case in the year 2019 to normal people, "That's why Guede is guilty, and furthermore there's this internet poster named Vixen who is extremely wrong and..."

bagels is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 03:57 AM   #3292
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 16,756
Originally Posted by bagels View Post
Vixen must be right about this case cause lots of smart savvy people agree with her such as
Truth is Truth.

Nothing to do with who agrees with you or who can assemble the biggest PR campaign.
__________________
Then let the way appear, steps unto heav'n.
All that thou sendest me, in mercy giv'n.'
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 04:11 AM   #3293
bagels
Master Poster
 
bagels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,169
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Truth is Truth.

Nothing to do with who agrees with you or who can assemble the biggest PR campaign.
Sounds like a foolproof way to avoid confirmation bias
bagels is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 04:44 AM   #3294
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 14,072
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Truth is Truth.

Nothing to do with who agrees with you or who can assemble the biggest PR campaign.


LMAO

There's "being wrong"...... and then there's "being so wrong that you can't even figure out that you're wrong".




(For the avoidance of doubt for one particular pro-guilt commentator: the latter element of the above sentence applies to Vixen's "arguments" on the Knox/Sollecito trials process and the Kercher murder investigation in general (it's tragic that I need to add this, but, y'know.....))
LondonJohn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 04:46 AM   #3295
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 14,072
By the way, those "Moon landings really were real" and "9/11 was planned and executed by a small group of Isalamist terrorists" whackjobs must have mighty large PR campaigns going on, in order to counteract the "Truth is Truth" of the Moon-landings-hoaxers and 9/11-Truthers, eh....?

LondonJohn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Trials and Errors

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:09 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.