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Tags New Zealand elections , New Zealand politics

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Old 15th August 2017, 12:04 AM   #81
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
But hey, if you can come up with a better idea on how to pay for cleaning up the county's waterways and lakes without us having to pay for it either directly, or indirectly through loss of other services, go for it, perhaps Labour will listen to you if you get a really stunning idea.
Only had to think about this for 10 seconds before I came up with a better idea... put the tax on at the other end.

In 2017, New Zealanders will consume 21.3 million metric tonnes of milk fluids (Milk, Cream, UHT milk products, Flavoured milks etc). At a density of 1033, that is 20.6 billion litres. If Labour were to put a levy of 1c per litre of milk at the consumer sale end, it would make no signifact impact on the budgets of even the poorest of families, but would net the government $206m annually.

In 2017, New Zealanders will consume 23.5 litres of commercially bottled water per person. That is over 100 million litres. Put a levy on 10c per litre in that and it another $10m annually.

Far more both these products are exported. If they were to extend the levy to exports of water and milk (10c per litre on water, 1c per litre and 1c per kilogram on milk powder) there is at least another $500m that could be collected.

At best, Labour's proposed water royalty will get $120m from the ~1600 dairy farms in NZ at an average of $75,000 per farm). They can get $700m+ annually if they use my idea; more than enough to undertake a program of clean waterways and there will be money left over to clean up domestic water supplies as well so that we don't get another Havelock North.
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Old 15th August 2017, 12:31 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Then stop quoting their unmitigated bollocks.
I'm not a politician so I don't automatically gainsay everything the other side says just because they are the opposition. I judge the merit of what politicians say based purely on what I think of their ideas - the colour of their tie does not colour my opinion.

Here are some of the key ones that are important to me (I can discuss why I rate these as I do if you wish

Green
Legalizing marijuana and taxing it - good
Compulsory Maori language studies in schools - bad

National
Closing special schools and mainstreaming their students (National) - bad, very bad
Provisional tax reform for small business - good

Labour
Paid parental leave for either parent - good
Water royalty - bad, very bad
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Old 15th August 2017, 07:27 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Far more both these products are exported. If they were to extend the levy to exports of water and milk (10c per litre on water, 1c per litre and 1c per kilogram on milk powder) there is at least another $500m that could be collected..
I really don't think it would work like that.
I don't know what the margins are on those products, but I doubt they're big, and they're in a competitive market, so I wouldn't be surprised that that would be pricing them out.
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Old 15th August 2017, 10:28 AM   #84
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As an Australian, I'd be interested in some local perspectives on how the Barnaby Joyce matter is registering as an NZ election issue, if at all.
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Old 15th August 2017, 12:49 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Sergei Walankov View Post
As an Australian, I'd be interested in some local perspectives on how the Barnaby Joyce matter is registering as an NZ election issue, if at all.
Not at all, in spite of the hideous Bishop hag trying to make it one.

Nobody cares, although there has been some humour on the subject.
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Old 15th August 2017, 12:54 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
I really don't think it would work like that.
I don't know what the margins are on those products, but I doubt they're big, and they're in a competitive market, so I wouldn't be surprised that that would be pricing them out.
The margins on milk are large, on bottled water, they are huge

The price of a litre of milk fluctuates seasonally and annually according to climate, with a median price of about $2.50 per litre running between about $2.25 to to $2.75. Making that 1 litre median price $2.51 is not going to price out anything. I dohbt tyhat single person in NZ would dcide not to buy milk on the basis of it being 1c dearer than before,

Same goes with bottled water... a 500ml "Pump" costs around $2.90 at the supermarket. It would go up to $2.95. That will not deter buyers.
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Old 15th August 2017, 02:09 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Sergei Walankov View Post
As an Australian, I'd be interested in some local perspectives on how the Barnaby Joyce matter is registering as an NZ election issue, if at all.
There has been a fair amount of coverage

More to do with politics here though.

There is an election coming up here and some are wondering why, while the opposition party (technically two parties, but it is a blurry line) are dumping leaders left, right and center, they seem to be confusing which country they are trying to bring the government down in.

I think nice, but dim Chris Hipkins, who asked the questions might just be a tad confused and didn't realise there is more than one person in the world named "Joyce". (We have senior govt MP called the same)

He is the opposition education spokesman as well, so pity the children if he gets in
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Old 15th August 2017, 03:15 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
He is the opposition education spokesman as well, so pity the children if he gets in
The irony in a National Party supporter coming out with that.

Schools are in such superb shape right now, on the back of nine years under the care of completely inadequate and out of their depth ministers.

Just in case you'd forgotten:

Overcrowding, one term into the school year.

Which combines neatly with half of Auckland schools being at least one teacher short.

The fastest & largest decrease in maths ability of any country in the OECD.

I can try charter schools if National's appalling record in general education makes you at all uneasy.

Schools are in crisis. My own 8 yo attends a decile 10 school and they are currently 47 over the maximum roll of 700, and they're two teachers short. This is a school which is a natural first choice for teachers. It's only been open for ten years and up until 2015 they had queues of teachers crying out to work there.

With that school in that state I shudder to think what Manurewa East, Bairds Rd, et al are like right now.

But hey, property prices are up, so who gives a ****, amirite?
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Old 15th August 2017, 03:57 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
The irony in a National Party supporter coming out with that.

Schools are in such superb shape right now, on the back of nine years under the care of completely inadequate and out of their depth ministers.

Just in case you'd forgotten:

Overcrowding, one term into the school year.

Which combines neatly with half of Auckland schools being at least one teacher short.

The fastest & largest decrease in maths ability of any country in the OECD.

I can try charter schools if National's appalling record in general education makes you at all uneasy.

Schools are in crisis. My own 8 yo attends a decile 10 school and they are currently 47 over the maximum roll of 700, and they're two teachers short. This is a school which is a natural first choice for teachers. It's only been open for ten years and up until 2015 they had queues of teachers crying out to work there.

With that school in that state I shudder to think what Manurewa East, Bairds Rd, et al are like right now.

But hey, property prices are up, so who gives a ****, amirite?
Then move from Auckland

Not sure where you get me being a National supporter from?

As for Charter schools

Are these the schools Labour's senior MPs have threaten to resign over, if they are closed and who blatantly ignored their leader and went to fundraising functions for them?

The majority of which Labour are no longer going to close, as they have proven to be very successful, even though that was one of their most important policies and are now just going to change their names from "Charter Schools" to "Special character schools"?
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Old 15th August 2017, 07:56 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Then move from Auckland
Some of the major problems aren't Auckland-specific.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Not sure where you get me being a National supporter from?
I just have a natural tendency, when people spout ignorant and incorrect National Party propaganda and praise the National Party's achievements, to think that the person is a National voter.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Are these the schools Labour's senior Maori MPs have threaten to resign over, if they are closed and who blatantly ignored their leader and went to fundraising functions for them?
FTFY

Just because Labour has now embraced the concept to keep the brown vote happy in no way makes them good or useful.

In fact, the mere existence of Maori support for them should tell you something. Could it be that being able to send Maori kids to Maori schools, funded to extremes by the taxpayer, where they are able to participate in a huge range of well-funded activities that no other schools can, means that Maori parents like them?

Surely you jest.

Quite funny, though, that the libertarian ACT brought a concept to government they never would have tried in a million years, only to have it turn out to be almost entirely positive discrimination by stealth.

Hey, good on the Maori parents signing up for them - it's the exact equivalent of a scholarship to Kings, with the real irony being that under-achievement is the pass mark, the exact opposite of Kings.
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Old 15th August 2017, 08:19 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Schools are in such superb shape right now, on the back of nine years under the care of completely inadequate and out of their depth ministers.

Just in case you'd forgotten:

Overcrowding, one term into the school year.

Which combines neatly with half of Auckland schools being at least one teacher short.

The fastest & largest decrease in maths ability of any country in the OECD.
Ann Tolley was a complete disaster, and an arrogant bitch who would not listen to anyone. She is was the prime mover behind the attempts to close special schools such as Salisbury Girls here in Nelson, and I really grew tired of her bleating on about "wrap around services", which IMO was nothing but weasel-worded politicalspeak, and code for "we're going to drop those kids in the deep end of mainstream and whether they sink or swim its up to them." When the Principals Associaton refused to work with her, Jonky replaced her with Hekia Whatsername, another disaster for a different reason. She was totally ineffective; wouldn't know whether her arse was counter-bored or centre-punched.

This new one, Nikki Kaye looks a bit young for the job, although that might be a good thing... less political baggage maybe? She's only been there since May so the jury's out.
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Old 15th August 2017, 08:21 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Not sure where you get me being a National supporter from?
Atheist is clearly a Labour supporter. If you say anything to do with politics that he disagrees with, or if you disagree with any Labour policy, this automatically makes you National supporter, whether you are or not.
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Old 15th August 2017, 09:28 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Atheist is clearly a Labour supporter. If you say anything to do with politics that he disagrees with, or if you disagree with any Labour policy, this automatically makes you National supporter, whether you are or not.
Lol

I noticed

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Old 15th August 2017, 09:33 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post


Surely you jest.

Quite funny, though, that the libertarian ACT brought a concept to government they never would have tried in a million years, only to have it turn out to be almost entirely positive discrimination by stealth.

Hey, good on the Maori parents signing up for them - it's the exact equivalent of a scholarship to Kings, with the real irony being that under-achievement is the pass mark, the exact opposite of Kings.
That's fantastic Atheist

But the fact is it doesn't change Labour having closing all charter schools as one of it key policies, while it is utter bollocks and they are keeping them.

And they aren't all specialist Maori schools they won't shut, so your clutching at straws for excuses don't add up.

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Old 15th August 2017, 10:31 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Atheist is clearly a Labour supporter.
You'd be completely incorrect, although I will most definitely vote Labour this time.

I'm a supporter of the best party for New Zealand. Right now, the evidence is clear that that isn't National, and Labour's the only viable alternative.

If I thought TOP had a dog's show of winning more than a Highly Commended badge, I'd be neck deep in them.

I've voted National on three occasions, informally a couple of times, McGillicuddy Serious and Values once each and Labour six.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
But the fact is it doesn't change Labour having closing all charter schools as one of it key policies, while it is utter bollocks and they are keeping them.
Don't be absurd, policies change all the time. Take a look at Billy-boy; every time one of the opposition comes out with a clever policy, he's all over it like a rash in a rush to stamp it blue.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
And they aren't all specialist Maori schools they won't shut, so your clutching at straws for excuses don't add up.
Mate, all you're doing with that comment is shining a light on your ignorance in respect of charter schools - they're all Maori and Pasifika dominated.

Have a look at their own bleeding website - this is the official page of all eight charter schools in NZ. You find the white Asian and Indian faces: http://partnershipschools.education.govt.nz/

Charter schools are a sop to Maori. The end.
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Old 16th August 2017, 01:49 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Same goes with bottled water... a 500ml "Pump" costs around $2.90 at the supermarket. It would go up to $2.95. That will not deter buyers.
There's a reason I was specifically quoting your part about exports.
You can't quote local supermarket prices for bottled water when talking about adding 10c per litre for exports.

Same goes for the milk products.

And I don't know about NZ, but here in the UK for milk the supermarkets would quite quickly attempt to push that cost onto the producers, who here are struggling with prices as they stand anyway.
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Old 16th August 2017, 02:20 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
And I don't know about NZ, but here in the UK for milk the supermarkets would quite quickly attempt to push that cost onto the producers, who here are struggling with prices as they stand anyway.
Big difference here is the tiny percentage of milk that is used as actual milk - the vast bulk of NZ milk gets turned into export products, so the price is reflective of the export value of the milk rather than how supermarket consumers see it.

The producers aren't in a lot of pain here. They had a dip for a year or so among a very long list of high-income years.
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Old 16th August 2017, 02:38 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
The price of a litre of milk fluctuates seasonally and annually according to climate, with a median price of about $2.50 per litre running between about $2.25 to to $2.75.
Wow, you must have a powerful dairy lobby. Here in Oz, milk is as cheap as $1 a litre. The supermarketing giants can tell the dairy farmers, "accept our price or we will import the stuff".

Mind you, I would rather pay NZ prices if it meant that we could keep that "foreign muck" out.
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Old 16th August 2017, 04:54 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
You'd be completely incorrect, although I will most definitely vote Labour this time.

I'm a supporter of the best party for New Zealand. Right now, the evidence is clear that that isn't National, and Labour's the only viable alternative.

If I thought TOP had a dog's show of winning more than a Highly Commended badge, I'd be neck deep in them.

I've voted National on three occasions, informally a couple of times, McGillicuddy Serious and Values once each and Labour six.



Don't be absurd, policies change all the time. Take a look at Billy-boy; every time one of the opposition comes out with a clever policy, he's all over it like a rash in a rush to stamp it blue.



Mate, all you're doing with that comment is shining a light on your ignorance in respect of charter schools - they're all Maori and Pasifika dominated.

Have a look at their own bleeding website - this is the official page of all eight charter schools in NZ. You find the white Asian and Indian faces: http://partnershipschools.education.govt.nz/

Charter schools are a sop to Maori. The end.
Shutting charter schools is still their policy Atheist

Try to actually look at their policy. It might help your argument

They haven't changed it.

That is the point

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Old 16th August 2017, 04:13 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
You'd be completely incorrect, although I will most definitely vote Labour this time.

I'm a supporter of the best party for New Zealand. Right now, the evidence is clear that that isn't National, and Labour's the only viable alternative.

If I thought TOP had a dog's show of winning more than a Highly Commended badge, I'd be neck deep in them.

I've voted National on three occasions, informally a couple of times, McGillicuddy Serious and Values once each and Labour six.



Don't be absurd, policies change all the time. Take a look at Billy-boy; every time one of the opposition comes out with a clever policy, he's all over it like a rash in a rush to stamp it blue.



Mate, all you're doing with that comment is shining a light on your ignorance in respect of charter schools - they're all Maori and Pasifika dominated.

Have a look at their own bleeding website - this is the official page of all eight charter schools in NZ. You find the white Asian and Indian faces: http://partnershipschools.education.govt.nz/

Charter schools are a sop to Maori. The end.
Did Vanguard and Middle totally pass you by then?
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Old 16th August 2017, 06:57 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Did Vanguard and Middle totally pass you by then?
Vanguard is 60% brown.

They're a sop to Maori.

I don't know what point you're trying to make.
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Old 16th August 2017, 07:01 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Shutting charter schools is still their policy Atheist

Try to actually look at their policy. It might help your argument
This is where you've lost the plot - I don't have an argument on charter schools other than they're not good use of education's limited dollars. I even explained why Labour has changed shoes on it. It's also a red herring.

I'm not a big fan of positive discrimination and don't believe we should have charter schools at all, but it's hardly an election issue, especially in light of the real problems in education.

Here's one from just this morning: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11905510

Directly attributable to National's housing Ponzi scheme.
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Old 16th August 2017, 09:15 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
This is where you've lost the plot - I don't have an argument on charter schools other than they're not good use of education's limited dollars. I even explained why Labour has changed shoes on it. It's also a red herring.

I'm not a big fan of positive discrimination and don't believe we should have charter schools at all, but it's hardly an election issue, especially in light of the real problems in education.

Here's one from just this morning: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11905510

Directly attributable to National's housing Ponzi scheme.
I think anyone who thinks moving houses would create a nearly 5% leap in failures is living in lala land



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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 16th August 2017, 09:22 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think anyone who thinks moving houses would create a nearly 5% leap in failures is living in lala land
I seriously do wonder where you get your information - frequent moves are well established as a specific reason for kids' academic performance dropping.

Live and learn.
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Old 16th August 2017, 09:34 PM   #105
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5% my arse

Have you actually read your link?

If you think moving house means you have a 50% chance of passing you definitely are in lala land



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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 16th August 2017, 11:25 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
5% my arse

Have you actually read your link?
But I gather unsurprisingly you didn't understand the data. Funnily enough, if you take an average of -3 months off an average kid, which would be 36 months at primary, the truth is closer to 10%, but hey, it's just more facts you're trying to deny.

Yet you tried to deny you're a National voter.

Hmmm...

(at this stage your arse is on a plate)

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
If you think moving house means you have a 50% chance of passing you definitely are in lala land

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Does your SM-J500Y have a translate button? Because I have no idea what that's supposed to mean.
___________________________________

Meanwhile - and much more importantly - in a stunning display, Jacinda keeps climbing as the Greens keep falling, now well below the 5% threshold and minus a jillion percent chance of winning a seat.

Wow!

National support remains high, but eroding.

The smart money, getting out early. More will follow.

(God, imagine getting the dream quinella of annihilating the Greens at the same time as kicking this bunch of old-boys network filth out of the Beehive. A man can dream, but it's a dream with a lot more substance than only a couple of weeks ago.)
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Old Today, 05:02 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
But I gather unsurprisingly you didn't understand the data. Funnily enough, if you take an average of -3 months off an average kid, which would be 36 months at primary, the truth is closer to 10%, but hey, it's just more facts you're trying to deny.

Yet you tried to deny you're a National voter.

Hmmm...

(at this stage your arse is on a plate)



Does your SM-J500Y have a translate button? Because I have no idea what that's supposed to mean.
___________________________________

Meanwhile - and much more importantly - in a stunning display, Jacinda keeps climbing as the Greens keep falling, now well below the 5% threshold and minus a jillion percent chance of winning a seat.

Wow!

National support remains high, but eroding.

The smart money, getting out early. More will follow.

(God, imagine getting the dream quinella of annihilating the Greens at the same time as kicking this bunch of old-boys network filth out of the Beehive. A man can dream, but it's a dream with a lot more substance than only a couple of weeks ago.)
Your link says if a kid moves house their chances of getting a high school qualification by the age of 25 halves.

Now you can chose to believe that if you like, but, you know...It's a bit stupid

Latest poll has the Greens on 9%

Sorry for bursting your baloon

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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old Today, 05:03 AM   #108
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Oh. And old boys network

Have you not read the Labour list?

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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old Today, 01:40 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Latest poll has the Greens on 9%
The irony in you calling someone stupid then presenting a 3-month average as "the latest poll" is truly awe-inspiring.
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Old Today, 05:56 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
The irony in you calling someone stupid then presenting a 3-month average as "the latest poll" is truly awe-inspiring.
It's the latest Roy Morgan poll

I like the way you are having a love-in over 2 polls (one 24 hours after the leadership change) as definitive fact the political landscape has twisted on its axis lol

The honeymoon will be over in a week or 2.

The Greens will end up getting about 8 and Labour will drop a few.

They aren't polling much higher than under Cunliffe

They really got that crap lol

But by all means. Continue the party







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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old Today, 06:16 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
It's the latest Roy Morgan poll
Out of date. A two-week average with the pace of change is worthless. Turei hadn't even resigned for the first ten days of that one.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I like the way you are having a love-in over 2 polls (one 24 hours after the leadership change) as definitive fact the political landscape has twisted on its axis lol
If you check what I've written, I haven't offered it as definitive proof of anything.

I'm hopeful, the Nats are scared... right now, that's as good as it gets.

I haven't made any predictions, but have stated a hope that the trend continues. You're letting your own propaganda run away with the facts.
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