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22nd February 2022, 06:20 AM | #1 |
Penultimate Amazing
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A Killdozer in every garage; modern truck designed to be insanely dangerous
You may have noticed that US made trucks are getting really, really big. Like, absurdly large, especially in the front end, for no real good reason.
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Article includes a picture of a child standing in front of one of these street-legal monstrosities. His head barely rises above the front bumper, there is no way a driver would see this kid in the street before running them over. Here's a thread of pictures of a 6'1" journalist at a car show. Many of these trucks have hoods at shoulder or chest level of a grown man:
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https://twitter.com/bontrager_keith/...43890253357059 An entire corvette is in the blind spot from the cab, only visible in the tiny screen of the front facing cam of this obscenely large truck. The consequences to pedestrian safety are pronounced.
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ETA: From the bloomberg article, women seem to be disproportionately injured by these things, because the absurdly intimidating by design mega truck is largely an appeal to tiny-ego men:
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22nd February 2022, 08:01 AM | #2 |
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As someone who actually uses pickup trucks and has had one or another for the last 40 years or so, always 4WD, this is an old and annoying issue. I used to have a 78 Ford 4WD snowplow truck, which was higher than some, but reasonable to drive. Then I had an 88 Chevy 3/4 ton, also with a plow, and that also was actually pretty sleek by comparison. When I came to replace that, I found just about everything impossibly, stupidly tall. I ended up getting a used 2002 Chevy (no plow this time, and a wimpy V6 engine), which was about the last vintage of full sized trucks that didn't feel like Howl's moving castle. When that one succumbed to frame rot, I was unable to find any full size truck that would serve, and have ended up with a "mid-size" 2007 GMC. That's still a pretty reasonable sized vehicle. I gave up on truck mounted snowplows and use a tractor instead.
Pickup trucks have always been dangerous to back up, and it's an issue I had to address when my kids were little, as it was difficult to convince them of just how blind a driver is to what's behind them. But I never had that issue looking forward. It's crazy that one should, just to satisfy some big truck image. A big utility vehicle has to be big, of course, but it's entirely possible to have a hefty, off-roadable, plow-ready 4WD pickup that can be safely driven by a human being. Only problem is that you can't buy a new one. |
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22nd February 2022, 08:18 AM | #3 |
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Well that's the problem. Other countries manage to have people who use a pickup or other style of truck for work but don't like drive them as their daily driver.
A 22 foot long land yacht doesn't need to be in the parking lot of Publix getting diapers and soda. |
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22nd February 2022, 08:32 AM | #4 |
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And beside "But I use it for work!" and up there with "But I take it off road" on the "No you don't" chart.
A monstrosity that looks similar to this* is parked about 4 or 5 houses down on my street. It's not used for anything but being "big." *https://strykerordesign.com/pages/st...trucks-gallery |
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22nd February 2022, 08:49 AM | #5 |
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Truck owners are the worst. I'm sure the design is the overall problem but the personalities drawn to purchase them are undoubtedly a contributing factor. No other kind of vehicle on the road has put my life at risk more often over perceived ego slights than pickup truck drivers.
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22nd February 2022, 08:50 AM | #6 |
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Local news did a test of 22 vehicles using a 5'4" driver (average US woman's height) to test the minimum distance a driver could see the top of a 29" traffic cone.
For a Toyota Camry, it's 3 ft, 3 inches For a Cadillac Escalade, it's 10 ft, 2 inches of front blind zone.
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An article which presents an overview of the problem, noting a lack of action from regulatory bodies despite a clear understanding of the danger. |
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22nd February 2022, 08:50 AM | #7 |
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It's like I'm seriously debating on whether or not the get the new Ford Maverick (which is a sane sized, compact truck and a hybrid) just because I don't want to get associated with bro-dude truck culture.
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22nd February 2022, 08:54 AM | #8 |
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Depends what you count as "good", but there's absolutely a reason. From your link:
The U.S.’s perverse regulatory and tax environment contributes to this arms race. Ford’s heavy-duty F-250, for example, benefits from its regulatory status as a commercial vehicle, unlike the slightly smaller F-150.The front end has to be big, because it needs to be big to accommodate a large engine, which it needs to qualify as a commercial vehicle, which it needs to be exempted from passenger vehicle regulations. This has less to do with, as you put it, "tiny-ego men" and more to do with the Law of Unintended Consequences. |
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22nd February 2022, 08:55 AM | #9 |
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The "tiny ego men" part comes into play for people who think they need an F350 to drive to their software developer job. The number of people driving these giant trucks far exceeds the numbers who actually have any practical need for such powerful, large vehicles.
There's no reason why regulation can't keep up with these realities either. If a 250 is a commercial vehicle, I don't see why it would be unreasonable to require some form of commercial driver's license to drive it on public roadways. |
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22nd February 2022, 08:55 AM | #10 |
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22nd February 2022, 09:05 AM | #11 |
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You are ascribing motives that you don't really know and aren't necessary to explain what's going on. Yes, most people don't need those large vehicles. But large size comes with real advantages even in urban and commuting settings.
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22nd February 2022, 09:23 AM | #12 |
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Just chiming in as an actual building contractor: we generally don't need these things at all. When you get to the point that you need obscene amounts of vehicular power, there are cheaper and more powerful alternatives. Within the trades, there are three tells that you are dealing with a poser contractor: a big shiny truck, clean work boots, and pretty hands.
I use an E-350 utility van, and could easily make due with a 150. I got the 350 because it was what was available second hand when I needed one. |
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22nd February 2022, 09:24 AM | #13 |
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I believe someone with a Dodge Sprinter Van uses it for work a lot more than someone with a pickup.
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22nd February 2022, 09:26 AM | #14 |
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22nd February 2022, 09:43 AM | #15 |
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I think you're taking that statement differently than I intended.
There can be good reasons both for and against doing any particular thing, at the same time. The fact that one side may outweigh the other doesn't mean that there aren't what one might consider a good reason on the side that loses out. For example, I would consider increased safety for the driver to be a good reason to buy a particular vehicle. Do you disagree? Again, I'm not saying that this concern should override others, only that it's a legitimate consideration for buyers. Decreased safety for pedestrians is a good reason not to buy a particular vehicle. I'm pretty sure we agree on that point. Wanting 6 cup holders instead of 5 cup holders when I'm only ever going to use 1 cup holder is not what I would consider a good reason to buy a particular vehicle. The overall decision is the result of considering multiple reasons for and against it, and something being a "good" reason doesn't mean it should be the only, or even most important, factor. There can be good reasons to do something even when doing so is the wrong decision overall. |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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22nd February 2022, 09:47 AM | #16 |
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Not sure what this distinction is with this regulatory status? I've commercially tagged, insured, and written off expenses on 150s with the same benefits as 350s. I could do the same with a Prius if it was a dedicated work vehicle.
Eta: Also, my 351 block fits in the same body style as the little straight six did in my last 150, and the 400+ go right in too. You don't need all that tiny penis grill to house the engine. Its all fluff. |
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22nd February 2022, 09:50 AM | #17 |
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22nd February 2022, 09:52 AM | #18 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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22nd February 2022, 09:58 AM | #19 |
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As a cyclist, I've noticed this trend as well. It's not just that ********* are attracted to vehicles like that, it seems that driving vehicles with massively oversized engines turns you into an ******** as well. I've even noticed this in myself. I suspect it's the illusion of power and speed that makes the driver believe everybody and everything needs to just get out of the way and they make you drive more aggressively. Add the poor visibility, and you have a deadly combination.
Ironically, I've heard many people say that they buy vehicles like this or oversized SUVs because of "safety". It's always the safety of the occupants they mean, not the safety of everybody else. I used think this sort of self-centredness was US-specific, but it appears to be spreading everywhere. These vehicles are a menace and need to be taxed and regulated almost out of existence. If I had my way, we'd tax on engine size like the French do, but I have no illusion that's likely to happen. |
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22nd February 2022, 09:59 AM | #20 |
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Is it really a commute if a redneck in lifted Ford with an airport's landing lights worth of illumination on the front doesn't tailgate me for only doing 20 miles over the speed limit in the slow lane?
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22nd February 2022, 10:03 AM | #21 |
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Euro NCAP, a well regarded car safety program in Europe, includes "Vulnerable road users" in their crash testing and safety rating system. Their ratings not only reflect that safety for the occupants of the car in various crash scenarios, but also the safety of pedestrians and cyclists who might be struck by the vehicle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_NCAP This strikes me as a much more reasonable approach to rating the safety of vehicles. |
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22nd February 2022, 10:24 AM | #22 |
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Excellent! Me too, but I've little hope that something like this would find its way into the US regulatory environment or tax structures. Ask just about any American about vehicle safety, and they'd assume you were talking about driver safety. Even nice, friendly and considerate people in my experience.
Self-centredness appears to me to be fundamental to the US mindset in a way I'd not encountered elsewhere before moving here. |
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22nd February 2022, 11:20 AM | #23 |
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I think that's only true if you are lazy with design, and don't consider it a handicap. My old Chevy K2500 (the GM equivalent of an F250) had a big V8 engine, enough ground clearance to go off road (which I did) even with a snowplow frame on it, and still, though I haven't measured, I bet it is a foot lower in front than the latest version of the same truck. Sure, there's more stuff hanging off the engine now, and the engines are probably bigger, but if they're not designed better, it's because they don't see the need. A V8 engine is short, wide and low - that's the whole point of it.
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22nd February 2022, 12:38 PM | #24 |
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I drive an F150 to tow my trailers. I also drive it to work, but my commute is less than 5 miles. It is not as high as the new heavy duty trucks, but I do feel a bit blind in crowded situations.
I think there is a general frustration among truck owners over the height of trucks. Especially in four wheel drive configurations. If one of the big three offered something a bit more reasonable I think many drivers would be willing to put up with a tad less ground clearance. The new maverick looks pretty interesting. I hope it is successful and they continue to develop it. |
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22nd February 2022, 01:22 PM | #25 |
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I upgraded from a 2002 Ford Ranger 1/2 ton pickup to a 2016 F-150xl. With an 800 pound ATV, ramps and my wife and I in the Ranger, it was over-loaded every time we went to the Tahuya Forest for a ride.
So we sprung for a regular cab, regular bed 2WD, no posi-traction F150 with steel rims and a vinyl interior. Cheapest I could find, even had to wait two months to have one made as everyone seems to be ordering quad cabs these days. The F-150 handles better with 1500 pounds in the bed than the Ranger does empty. The Ranger got 27 mpg, the F-150 gets 25 mpg. One young lady referred to my truck as a "compensation vehicle". But back then it was the cheapest pickup I could find that would haul my ATV safely. I commute in a Yaris and 883n most days. Ranb |
22nd February 2022, 02:24 PM | #26 |
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Obviously, there are some good reasons to want a pickup truck. and some good reasons to want a bigger one. I used regularly to tow a sailboat on a trailer, and needed a snowplow too. No longer do this, so don't need such a big truck, but my old F150, though a great plow truck, was scary with a big trailer (not only getting jacked around, but at the very limit of its brakes) while the K2500 hardly knew it was there, and was so friendly to drive that I could parallel park it with the trailer on.
But I bet if you looked under the hood of your F150 you wouldn't have much trouble figuring out a way to reconfigure and stuff the contents in a way that would allow you to lower the hoodline substantially, and more so the empty space occupied by the nose and grille. If the hood line is crazily high it's because they want it that way. |
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Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière) A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi) |
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22nd February 2022, 02:30 PM | #27 |
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I don't know how well that gels with how much of that is aftermarket. Ford doesn't sell 20 foot tall trucks with 50 inch tires.
Yeah Ford, Chevy, Dodge, GMC, and Ram sell trucks which are way too big, but it's not their fault idiots are still making them bigger. Ford is responsible for a lot, but it's not responsible for this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrHDeSMvnt4&t=1071s |
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22nd February 2022, 02:53 PM | #28 |
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Yeah, and that is a big deal, but I think it is a separate deal from the OP: from the factory some consumer trucks have very poor sight lines.
We have a lot of jacked trucks down here, but most trucks on the road are bone stock when it comes to ride height. So the factory problems are a bigger problem. |
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22nd February 2022, 02:58 PM | #29 |
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22nd February 2022, 03:36 PM | #30 |
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It isn't. Ford only sells it with a cab and flat frame rails and as you say usually they get turned into ambulances or utility vehicles or dump trucks or whatever.
That's an aftermarket company. They just put the bed from the Ford F-350 on it and it really doesn't even fully fit well. |
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22nd February 2022, 04:17 PM | #31 |
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Right. I think the F450 is the biggest one that's sold as a whole truck. And that is freaking huge.
Around here we see a fair number of 3/4 ton pickups, and a few one ton, most often diesels, and they are towing enormous trailers full of cattle. Not all are duallies either, though the horse folks prefer them (Horses move around a lot and the trips are often quite long). A 3/4 or one ton pickup set up right can haul an absolutely huge amount, its pulling capacity far outweighing its own gross weight. Hell, my little GMC Canyon is rated to pull 6000 pounds, as was my Jeep Liberty, if the trailer has its own brakes. |
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22nd February 2022, 06:42 PM | #32 |
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The boundary between what an Australian would call a ute and what an Australian would call a truck is getting smaller and smaller.
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22nd February 2022, 07:11 PM | #33 |
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"12 yards long, 2 lanes wide,
65 tons of American Pride!" |
22nd February 2022, 07:23 PM | #34 |
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Other countries have farmers. Other countries have blue-collar workers. Other countries have people who tow or haul things. Other countries have off-road and campers and horse trailers and all that.
But only the US and Canada have a full-sized pickup truck as its most popular passenger vehicle for the last 40+ years. Only in North America is something that is 5 and a quarter feet longer, as wide, and an inch taller than a Hummer H1 the most popular vehicle on the road. |
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22nd February 2022, 07:28 PM | #35 |
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I love going to the store and seeing all the huge trucks needed to haul around some groceries. Especially when they take up two parking spaces.
It especially cracks me up when their beds are all pristine, having never hauled around anything dirtier than their kids sports equipment. |
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22nd February 2022, 07:47 PM | #36 |
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To be fair, I think, part of the mentality that we need to move away from is that... and sort its opposite if that makes any sense.
I think we might have more sane-sized trucks like the Maverick or the Santa Cruz if we got away from the idea that an open bed is only useful if you're hauling a construction site's worth of gravel or whatnot. Sure it's both a self-feeding cycle and a chicken/egg problem but a small vehicle with an open bed that is used for personal cargo and not farm/ranch/construction cargo isn't like inherently crazy, if the vehicle's size is kept not crazy. Another reason I love the vehicle but am hesitant to actually get one is with the Maverick I know I'd be lumped in with the stupid-redneck bro-country truck idiots by car drivers and "iT's nOt a ReAL trUCK" by the truck bros, neither of which sounds like fun to me. |
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22nd February 2022, 08:10 PM | #37 |
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Pickups are great, especially if you have the kind of toys that scuff up Corinthian leather seats. Just an active kind of lifestyle, and helping buds move stuff more than warrants a pickup as a handy ride. But the penile compensating trucks are just stupid.
OTOH, it's a free country. If people like them, makes them feel big and powerful or just get off on the dominance of the thing, vaya con dios. Just stay away from city traffic and kids. |
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22nd February 2022, 09:04 PM | #38 |
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Of course one of the advantages of an open rear is that there is no height limitation on what you put in, and nothing to scratch up. Even if what you carry could go into an SUV or a big wagon, it's easier and quicker to put it in the back of a truck.
Ford made an Explorer "Sport Trac" truck for some time, but discontinued it in 2010, I think. It had a full 4 door crew cab, and a short bed, very similar to the Maverick. I don't see many around, and suspect that they weren't popular, being halfway between an SUV and a truck, so people tended to go for one or the other. The Maverick might have better luck if nothing else like it exists. |
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22nd February 2022, 09:22 PM | #39 |
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22nd February 2022, 11:33 PM | #40 |
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My 2WD F-150 is a pavement princess. But the aluminum bed is rather ugly from hauling gravel, ATV's and other crap. The top of the tailgate is scarred up from loading ramps and the roll up tonneau cover has a taped over hole in it compliments of a fallen tree branch. It's a big car I haul stuff in.
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