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28th September 2020, 12:41 AM | #441 |
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I see the gang is out in force, as I expected they would be.
I'm outnumbered, and will not be drawn into arguing against the same misleading line of reasoning they're in, except to say that the huge EAT-Lancet Global Health Commission metastudy was outnumbered in the same way by the forces of the overly-powerful meat and dairy industry. |
28th September 2020, 12:05 PM | #442 |
Penultimate Amazing
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From the abstract: "Third, more than half of all diet-related deaths and two-thirds of diet-related DALYs were attributable to just three factors: high intake of sodium, low intake of whole grains, and low intake of fruit." I guess red meat, saturated fats, and cholesterol are further down the list.
Also: " This evidence largely endorses a case for moving from nutrient-based to food-based guidelines. Their findings also reinforce those of the EAT–Lancet Commission on optimising diets for sustainable food systems, achievable through predominantly plant-based diets " Can you spell B-I-A-S ? And oh, by the way: If you consider all risk factors, not just diet, the #1 risk factor is hypertension. Not meat or saturated fats. That is from the same Global Health Commission, but a different study. |
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28th September 2020, 12:39 PM | #443 |
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Quote:
Nothing about a diet primarily from animal sourced foods.. Clearly the Maasai people ( or the Inuit ) were not included in the study. |
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28th September 2020, 02:22 PM | #444 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I'm safe, I don't buy any processed foods. Yesterday was recycling bin day, every two weeks. Mine was empty. No cardboard packing, no tin cans. No pizza boxes.
I buy a chunk of beef, cut my own steaks. A chunk of pork, make my own hams. A chunk of beef AND a chunk of pork and make my own sausages. Lacto-ferment sauerkraut and pickles . I don't even peel the potatoes I eat. I grind buckwheat into flour. Old timey, they used salt as the sole preservative. I have a refrigerator and freezer. So I cut back on the salt in all those recipes. And "low sodium" is 2 grams/day, or 3.5 grams of salt. I weight that out once. That is HUGE. Then I subtracted all the sodium in my diet. I was only half done with that pile. So I don't worry about sodium. And the doc has me on diuretic too. But my hypertension is crazy bad. It's not diet, it's genes. The elastin gene. And another + for science based medicine was an article from some Fellows of American College of somespeciality, low sodium diets do nothing. Orphia's link is biased. |
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28th September 2020, 05:36 PM | #445 |
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Salt is a red herring..
It's harder to get enough rather than too much.. |
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28th September 2020, 08:22 PM | #446 | |||
Banned
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Eat an apple and go for a walk
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28th September 2020, 08:34 PM | #447 |
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
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29th September 2020, 11:00 AM | #448 |
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I hope I feel sufficiently guilty because I thought it was funny..
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1st October 2020, 12:40 PM | #449 |
Acolyte of Víðarr
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As Einstein once said, "If you can't think of something relevant to say, just make something up and attribute it to some really smart dead guy." "I find your lack of pith disturbing," - Darth Rotor .......... Don't be offended. I'm not calling you a serial killer. -- Ron Tomkins. |
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24th November 2020, 11:44 AM | #450 |
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25th November 2020, 06:43 PM | #451 |
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Another relevant article..
A low-fat, high-carb diet has been the largest public health experiment in history. As the world gets ever fatter, we MUST rethink
Quote:
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2nd February 2021, 01:37 PM | #452 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Appetite reduction:
Quote:
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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12th February 2021, 01:22 AM | #453 |
Penultimate Amazing
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More appetite reduction: semaglutide.
Quote:
Quote:
New weight-loss product is 'the beginning of a new era,' says professor It was developed to treat diabetes, but trials showed that it caused weight loss. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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12th February 2021, 09:36 AM | #454 |
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12th February 2021, 10:37 AM | #455 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Here is the paper
https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2032183 Also worth noting is that it's already approved for use in type 2 diabetes. The typical dosage for diabetes is somewhat smaller though. |
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21st July 2021, 03:27 PM | #456 |
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new (free) review article entitled Fasting: How to Guide
Apologies - posted in wrong thread & can't figure out to delete. That being said, fasting (without malnutrition)/fasting mimicking diets, etc. have been shown to aid in combatting obesity |
28th September 2021, 09:17 AM | #457 |
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Here are some papers/studies that some may find interesting.
Special Issue "Towards Better Dietary Guidelines: New Approaches Based on Recent Science" Topics discussed: Dietary Saturated Fats and Health: Are the U.S. Guidelines Evidence-Based? Alternative Dietary Patterns for Americans: Low-Carbohydrate Diets Sodium Intake and Health: What Should We Recommend Based on the Current Evidence? |
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29th September 2021, 06:58 PM | #458 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Luvit. Yea!!! Evidence based!
Anecdote: I had heat stroke last week. Changing a flat on the side of the freeway, 95 degrees. I wasn't sweating, but panting. Many breaks before I got it off the jack. Half hour later at home my temp was 100. Seems my sodium lowering diuretic (chlorthalidone) has the side effect of preventing sweating. Some trade off eh? Heat stroke, +/- or the ability to exercise, for maybe, possibly, sort of, postponing kidney failure. Of course over heating and dehydration are also death to kidneys. I am rapidly losing faith in medicinal treatments. |
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29th September 2021, 08:14 PM | #459 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Stone age humans were able to acquire enough nutrients to not only survive, but to thrive. And thrive they must have, since the stone age led to the bronze age to the iron age to the industrial age to the space age to the information age to the infrastructure age.
The question is whether infrastructure age humans can thrive on stone age nutrient supplies. |
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30th September 2021, 06:45 AM | #460 |
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Then there was the Neolithic Revolution which was the start of health problems we enjoy today..
Quote:
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30th September 2021, 07:02 AM | #461 |
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Commentary from Derek Lowe:
https://www.science.org/content/blog...inking-obesity
Quote:
I was born in 1970, but my memory of supermarkets at the time is that there was less food available that came ready to eat right out of the package. Food needed to be prepared before you could eat it, and it took some time and effort to do that. I think it's the cumulative effect of thousands of innovations we've made to make life easier, and more convenient. And this allows us to be more sedentary and food has become more and more convenient to consume. The microwave oven, the escalator, the elevator, all these innovations that make using your muscles unnecessary. There's no doubt that people were much thinner 50 years ago. Every new invention that makes some aspect of life easier adds to the problem. |
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30th September 2021, 08:50 AM | #462 |
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I haven't thought that much about yearbooks, but that is an interesting and telling ruler.
I think about street scenes form the 40's, 50's and 60's VS now.. |
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4th October 2021, 01:02 PM | #463 |
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As Einstein once said, "If you can't think of something relevant to say, just make something up and attribute it to some really smart dead guy." "I find your lack of pith disturbing," - Darth Rotor .......... Don't be offended. I'm not calling you a serial killer. -- Ron Tomkins. |
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5th October 2021, 12:33 AM | #464 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Unless you chase the chicken, kill it and pluck it yourself - and only a tiny number of people did that in the 1970s and 1980s - you don't burn many calories preparing food. An easy, convenient life doesn't make you fat.
Quote:
People tend to love the explanation that making things easier is what makes people fat as if work is the only way the get exercise, but that is not the case. The access to healthy tasty food and to enjoyable forms of exercise that you do for fun and don't have to force yourself to do is what matters. If you can only afford low-quality, sugary food and live in a neighborhood that doesn't encourage you to get out of the house for a walk or a bike ride, you are more likely to get fat. This doesn't happen to rich people even to the same degree even if their maid does all the shopping, cleaning and cooking. Poverty and Obesity in the U.S. (Nov, 2011) |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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5th October 2021, 03:23 AM | #465 |
Penultimate Amazing
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So you say, and yet it's undeniable that people have gotten fatter than they were in the 1970s and 1980s. Certainly in the US, but also in other countries, I think.
So what do you suppose is different between now and then? Something to do with either diets, or lifestyles, or both, no? What could it be? By the way, it's not about how many calories you burn preparing food. It's about the convenience, which makes it so easy to overconsume. It's about increased opportunities to consume food throughout the day, between meals, and not only at scheduled meal times. You don't have to stop whatever it is you are doing to go cook a meal; it only takes a moment or two to get something out of the fridge or whatever to munch on. We don't even have to leave our house to shop anymore. Everything can be ordered online and delivered to your front door. You can choose to exercise, but you aren't forced to anymore. |
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5th October 2021, 04:34 AM | #466 |
Penultimate Amazing
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It was always 'convenient' and easy for the rich to overconsume, and yet most of them didn't and still don't. And they had (and have) people to do everything for them, and yet they don't tend to get fat. The poor do because they don't have access to healthy food and enjoyable exercise the same way the rich do. The difference is that fattening, low-quality food and a couch and TV set is what poor people have easy access to.
Quote:
Yes, you can choose to exercise, and most people aren't forced to do so, unless they are in the army, in school or in jail. But if you don't have access to pleasant, enjoyable exercise you tend to do so less than the people who do have access to woods, green fields, country clubs with tennis and golf, convenient bike lanes, etc. Or do you think that rich people are forced to exercise, but poor people aren't?! Where I live, one way to make people exercise more is to make it attractive to get on your bike. Nobody forces us to ride a bicycle, but the bike ride as an alternative to the car or the subway appeals to us because it has been made appealing (and very often faster) than cars and public transport - for both rich and poor, by the way.
Quote:
See?! Nobody is forcing him. And nobody is forcing me. And yet I weigh approximately the same as I did 40 years ago. And then there's the carbon footpring, which some people claim is the reason why they do it. I don't. I do it because it's faster and more convenient. And I eat healthy food because it tastes better and is easily available. To many people, it isn't. ETA: It is not as if we don't have obesity. We do. But we are at the low end (#111; USA #12) of industrialized (and in particular: industrialized Western) countries: List of countries by obesity rates (Wikipedia) ETA: We don't have any real automotive industry, i.e. we don't have lobbyists paying politicians to make it unappealing to ride bikes to and from work! On the contrary, the state finds it advantageous to pay for bike lanes and even bike bridges. They are much cheaper than the ones for cars, and they contribute to making it faster and more convenient to ride bikes. You never get stuck in traffic on a bicycle. In rush-hour traffic, you almost always do if you are in a car or even on a motorcycle. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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8th June 2022, 12:32 PM | #467 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Quote:
On Twitter! @AJCNutrition, @nutritionorg, @jnutritionorg, #GreatDebateNutrition |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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18th June 2022, 08:07 AM | #468 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Tirzepatide Once Weekly for the Treatment of Obesity (NEJM, June 4, 2022)
The numbers are impressive! From a Danish article about Tirzepartide:
Quote:
participants who got 10mg tirzepatide lost 22,2 kg ... etc. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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18th June 2022, 08:24 AM | #469 |
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Paywall for details beyond 5% reduction in weight, which is really not much for a 300+ Lb person.
Any diet changes or habits? What is the action of the drug? How did it affect co-morbidities? Drug companies get excited about reducing A1c from 11 to 7 .. They don't tell you you could get below 6 ( in many cases ) without the drugs if you stop eating sugar.. ( Type 2 ) |
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19th June 2022, 01:29 AM | #470 |
Penultimate Amazing
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You can read a Google translation of the Danish article for free.
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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19th June 2022, 04:17 PM | #471 |
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19th June 2022, 09:55 PM | #472 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Post 468 + https://translate.google.com
And you are right about drug companies. They don't exactly advertise that you can cure your type-2 diabetes with a combination of diet and exercise. They are not in it for curing people. They are in it to make people buy their drugs. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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19th June 2022, 10:56 PM | #473 |
New Blood
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Well, you can't 'cure' it with diet and exercise but you can maybe put it into remission. I got my blood sugars under control about 5 years ago with diet and exercise but recently had to go back onto meds despite diet/exercise/weight not changing and will now likely be on them forever.
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20th June 2022, 07:53 AM | #474 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Right, it is not as good as never having had type 2 diabetes. And you can get type 2 diabetes even if you aren't obese.
Quote:
Covid-19 infections also increase the risk:
Quote:
So much for the ideology of 'learning to live with the virus' and 'infections strengthen your immunity the natural way' ... |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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23rd June 2022, 06:01 AM | #475 |
Penultimate Amazing
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No doubt due to a sedentary life style while recovering/ Long Covid.
I've cut my insulin needs (T2) with Berberine. It works inside the mitochondria. I think like the tirzipitide? GLUT-! and Glucagon xyz? You can google Mounjaro™, the brand name. $1,017/month at Walmart pharmacy. |
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2nd March 2023, 08:00 PM | #476 |
The Grammar Tyrant
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This comes as no surprise whatsoever:
More than half the world's population will be classed as obese or overweight by 2035 if action is not taken, the World Obesity Federation warns. As noted: ...rates rising fastest among children... Yet again, this is no news. I took a rare trip to my boy's school this week, and I was astonished at how many kids there (age 5-14) were really fat. From little pudgy first-years to hulking 14 yos who would be 100kg easily, the place looked like an ad for how not to feed your kids. Parents are 100% responsible for their kids' health and it's outrageous they can't see the damage they're doing - or don't care. Ho hum. |
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2nd March 2023, 08:49 PM | #477 |
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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3rd March 2023, 12:55 AM | #478 |
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Strong boomer energy in these posts.
Calorie dense, highly palatable food is simply cheaper and more readily available than before. If it was available in the same quantities and price when you grew up it would almost certainly have been the same then. It’s nothing to do with worldwide parental changes, obviously, because it would have been impossible for half of the world’s population to be obese 20 or 30 years ago. Also it is nothing to do with the food pyramid or other stuff that cranks like Taubes go on about because people do not and have never paid attention to government guidelines about how to eat. |
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3rd March 2023, 02:04 AM | #479 |
The Grammar Tyrant
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That's a fallacy I've proven over and over again.
More available, definitely. Cheaper is utter nonsense. A McDonald's meal of 2 burgers, 2 fries and 2 sundaes is NZD $30. Feeds 2. For $30, I can buy .5 kg of <5% fat beef, a head of broccoli, carrots, mushrooms and potatoes to feed at least 4 people. And I'd still have $5 left over to buy a low-calorie dessert. Feel free to argue the case with me, because you'll be wrong all the way. Of course it bloody is - at least half of kids aren't fat, so half of parents get it right easily enough. I'm yet again reminded of a refugee I helped move to NZ. I found him a place to stay in South Auckland, the largest Polynesian city on earth. When I met up with him after he'd been there a couple of weeks, he told me in astounded fashion that he couldn't believe how fat the people were. Dawkins likes to claim teaching kids religion might be considered child abuse. I unequivocally state that over-feeding children is child abuse. We'd take the kids away if parents gave them booze or drugs but they're free to teach them habits at least as fatal as drinking, and more fatal than smoking dope. |
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3rd March 2023, 02:08 AM | #480 |
The Grammar Tyrant
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That, however, is true.
Another example is kids screaming, and I mean screaming at the top of their lungs. Years ago, kids would have copped a decent slap for screaming, now it's the wee darlings expressing themselves. Hard luck if one ever screams one day for a genuine reason - nobody will even look. |
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