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16th November 2019, 02:42 PM | #241 |
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Quote:
If it's not nutritious, why are you eating it? |
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16th November 2019, 05:51 PM | #242 |
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Well, I'm pretty sure I'm lactose intolerant, and have experienced some pretty unpleasant symptoms when consuming too much dairy a few times in my life*, but most days I put milk in my coffee or drink a latte without any trouble, so that's why I said "in moderation".
As to lactose free, I just made a big batch of yogurt, going to have it with bananas and blueberries for breakfast. No worries about the lactose content of a bowl of that. *but really, maybe three times. It's possible that the reactions, which are in line with the symptoms you listed and were coorelated with an episode of much higher than normal dairy consumption, were actually unrelated to the dairy, and that I'm not actually lactose intolerant (I was told I was as a kid, and those reactions reinforce the idea, but maybe I'm wrong). If even small amounts of diary lead to an unpleasant reaction in most people, then I withdraw my objection. |
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16th November 2019, 05:54 PM | #243 |
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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17th November 2019, 12:29 AM | #244 |
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"Our findings suggest a potential protective role of prebiotics and probiotics against lung carcinogenesis." People who eat food with fibre have good diets overall, and could have a more active lifestyle, hence better lungs. Prebiotics and probiotics I gather seem to be widely accepted now to be beneficial, not just yoghurt per se. Without buying the whole analysis, we can't tell if it proved yogurt alone reduced lung cancer. |
17th November 2019, 04:07 AM | #245 |
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Yes, but they claim that "high intakes of dietary fiber or yogurt were individually associated with reduced risk of lung cancer, independent of all known risk factors."
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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17th November 2019, 04:10 AM | #246 |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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17th November 2019, 04:45 AM | #247 |
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This is one of those times when a Danish word turns out to be untranslatable. In the meantime, everybody knows about hygge, but we also have the word nydelsesmiddel. It usually appears in the context of "nærings- og nydelsesmidler" (plural), which Google translates as "food and enjoyment". We find it in the term nærings- og nydelsesmiddelindustrien (Google translation: "the food and beverage industry"), but the definiton of nydelsesmiddel is:
Quote:
I.e. "a substance that is ingested solely for the sake of pleasure, for instance because it is tasty or has a pleasant or stimulating effect • e.g. spices, alcohol, intoxicants, tobacco, coffee and candy" or "(in particular in contrast to food) about substances that, without having (substantial) nutritional value, contain particular stimulating scents and flavors (e.g. spices, liquor, coffee, tea, tobacco); in particular (professionally, especially outdated) about some of the elements of food that are supposed to make the food appealing, stimulate appetite and digestion or have similar effects." |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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17th November 2019, 05:05 AM | #248 |
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It was widely reported, but I don't know how reliable it is: High fiber, yogurt diet associated with lower lung cancer risk (Science Daily, Oct. 25, 2019) A yoghurt a day may help keep lung cancer away (Farm Online, Oct. 29, 2019) Fiber and Yogurt Tied to Lower Lung Cancer Risk (NYT, Oct. 24, 2019) Unlike some of the others, this article mentions some of the limitations of the study: Yogurt, fiber, and lung cancer: What's the link? (Medical News Today, Oct. 28, 2019) |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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17th November 2019, 05:29 AM | #249 |
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Arne Astrup isn't quite convinced by the study: https://www.facebook.com/Arne.V.Astr...288888?__xts__
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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17th November 2019, 04:12 PM | #250 |
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"People who consumed the most fiber had a 17% lower risk of developing lung cancer than those who ate the least fiber.
Similarly, people who consumed the most yogurt had a 19% lower risk of developing lung cancer than those who consumed no yogurt." (data mining. Most vs Least? Obviously trying to exagerrate the efficacy." " Even participants who consumed just a small amount of yogurt had a 15% lower risk of developing lung cancer than those who consumed none." Better, comparing the lowest two quartiles. Which umm, did they do that for the fiber side? Sounds to me like a small amount of either is pretty darn efficient. No need to eat more than anybody else in the whole world. |
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17th November 2019, 04:29 PM | #251 |
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18th November 2019, 10:18 PM | #252 |
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The Matrix
Food studies suddenly got much more complicated:
Quote:
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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19th November 2019, 03:19 PM | #253 |
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Looks like a little funding from the dairy industry found it's way into that study..
Not saying I have a problem with it, but those things should be known.. |
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19th November 2019, 07:44 PM | #254 |
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Yeah, because it does make sense. Not JUST 'D', not JUST calcium, nor JUST the probiotics of the cheese, but that there is a synergistic effect of all three.
Matrix is the word I've been looking for. Few diseases are monogenic. Those are "RARE' diseases. The rest of our health problems are caused by a Matrix of genes. Just like our recent thread about how there is NOT one "gay gene". Then toss in a co-matrix of environmental factors. See why I "Eagerly await our AI Overlords" ? |
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21st November 2019, 01:42 AM | #255 |
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Saw your post from earlier, and it started my gears grinding.
You'll get into this. https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2...by-greenpeace/ Anti-GMO people (e.g. Greenpeace) have blocked the use of Golden Rice in countries with high prevalence of preventable blindness (due to Vitamin A deficiency (VAD). "According to a 2009 study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, the improved Golden Rice strain, being tested in the Philippines and Bangladesh, is as effective as vitamin A capsules and works better than the natural beta-carotene found in spinach. “Daily consumption of a very modest amount of Golden Rice—about a cup—could supply 50 percent of the recommended daily allowance of vitamin A for an adult,” said rice breeder Russell Reinke, who leads the Healthier Rice Program at the International Rice Research Institute (IRRI), the organization that has been conducting field trials in the Philippines." "Supplementation requires substantial and consistent funding in order to distribute the capsules to those who need them when they need them. While many foods contain beta-carotene, they can be expensive to buy and difficult to grow in regions where VAD is an issue. Rice is a staple crop in many countries in South and Southeast Asia, and is widely grown by smallholder farmers. Thus Golden Rice could be a cheap, wide-reaching, sustainable approach to fighting VAD." "Contrary to popular perception, Golden Rice is not a single rice variety. The nutritional traits that were originally inserted in rice plants using genetic engineering have been crossed with many local rice varieties via conventional breeding. This means that farmers in the Philippines, Bangladesh, India, Indonesia and Vietnam can maintain the advantages of the cultivars they’ve been growing, improving via conventional methods and eating for years." |
21st November 2019, 04:44 AM | #256 |
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I think that Arne Astrup accepts funding from everybody who is willing to pay for studies about nutrition, obesity and/or exercise. At one point, he was doing a study paid for by Coca Cola ® while at the same time denouncing sugar-filled soft drinks! He has often helped the Danish skeptics, e.g. in 2015 when I wrote an article about Danish breatharians and he offered to have them tested, free of charge, at the University of Copenhagen! (If the Coca Cola study was ever published, it hasn't come to my attention!)
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I guess I don't have to add that the breatharians never accepted his kind offer. Not a single one of them! |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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21st November 2019, 04:56 AM | #257 |
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What is the food matrix? (HIIP Nutritional Fitness, Feb. 15, 2018) The food matrix: implications in processing, and health (PubMed, Sep. 10, 2018) |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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21st November 2019, 01:23 PM | #258 |
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21st November 2019, 01:38 PM | #259 |
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Food matrix, sure. But I wanted it for genotype/phenotype discussions.
If you can open this link, it is a Promethease matrix of the woman founder of 23&Me' or google or such. It looks like a solar system. Gene snps are green, diseases purple, and published articles are black. She has 7 "diabetes genes". That one is for the disease of Diabetes. You can also look for a gene,and see what various disease it is related to- much commonality there. https://files.snpedia.com/reports/pr...el_v4_ui2.html[url] ( nuts. didn't go to the graph, only to her Promethease file. Go to the right, scroll down to Diseases, type in Diabetes Mellitus, scroll down to one with (10), click that, go to top write, click graph. That will be a T1 centric graph. Note the othere immune diseases on there, genes in common. ) Other people will show more snps. IIRC, my own graph for coronary heart disease showed 22 snps. With loads of them hooked to other diseases, the inter-relationships are boggling. No longer a solar system, more like a galaxy. (is there a better name if the inter-relation of data? Matrix is the word I couldn't remember, but there may be a name for that particular type of graph) |
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21st November 2019, 08:31 PM | #260 |
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That sounds like something I was subconsciously on a mission of discussing more to let many people know.
Not sure it's quite reached my instant recall abilities yet, but I do know I've read of things. I've got a friend who's a plant microbiologist from east Africa, and is writing up his thesis on tests he's been doing. Must ask that particular question. |
21st November 2019, 11:35 PM | #261 |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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22nd November 2019, 12:44 AM | #262 |
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Cool link to the Promethease report anyway.
"is there a better name if the inter-relation of data?" Probably not, "metabolomics" but that's a nice subject I looked into last year with some similarities. I'm liking a cybersecurity wiz's mention I saw this week on Twitter of the "entanglement" of data, environment, biology, psychology, politics, and so much else. Again, not what you were thinking of, but wanted to say something about this interconnectedness. Seems to be a Baader Meinhof Phenomenon I've got going, or science/the zeitgeist does. If this was Twitter or IG I'd tag #SDGs #CircularEconomy #SystemsChange to round things off. |
22nd November 2019, 08:06 AM | #263 |
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The chart design seems to be closest to a "bubble diagram showing spacial relationships" but it us interactive. I was hoping some one in the resident brain trust would know how to copy& paste one from proemthease. But here is one:
https://www.edrawsoft.com/templates/...lationship.png |
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22nd November 2019, 08:10 AM | #264 |
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"An interactive bubble chart showing the entanglement of genotype and phenotype, with footnotes" ?
Add in environmental factors and you can see why I eagerly await AI. |
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22nd November 2019, 08:56 AM | #265 |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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22nd November 2019, 10:31 AM | #266 |
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Okay, I took a screen shot. This graph is frm the Lily Mendel sample, 'diseases', heart diseases. 55 gene snps, those are rs numbers. (my own kit hoas 62) You can see that the big pink rs1800629 is connected to all sorts of grief.
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23rd November 2019, 11:33 PM | #267 |
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Nice.
Yes, the "entanglement" is lovely. Bit hard to see the connecting lines in the screenshot. But I really agree it's fascinating. Here's another example - an interactive "diagram". I think this music search site is very, very cool and I'd love to see it done with genetics, disease, environment etc. http://www.liveplasma.com/ |
23rd November 2019, 11:54 PM | #268 |
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I'll try not to let this thought turn into a derail...
Speaking of AI, there's this new from today: We Teach A.I. Systems Everything, Including Our Biases "BERT, (new Google AI technology) which is now being deployed in services like Google’s internet search engine, has a problem: It could be picking up on biases in the way a child mimics the bad behavior of his parents." I'll hide my convoluted thought process. Thus, obesity and genetics are related to world food production, distribution, consumption, sustainable development, and the UN's 2030 sustainable development goals. The entanglement of genetics and epigenetics of the biosphere. |
24th November 2019, 03:46 AM | #269 |
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The Global Obesity Epidemic
I don't know where the line between lactose moderation and excess are, but my stomach does.
Ow. Seems to be where I have something I have no alternative to eat apart from going hungry. It's even mildly bad when I have powdered coffee whitener daily, which I've done for years.u Big Dairy, something something something. Oh, but I saw 718 dairy farms closed in Wisconsin this year. Curious. |
24th November 2019, 06:54 AM | #270 |
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25th November 2019, 01:53 AM | #271 |
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Interesting. Thanks. No, the whitener contains milk solids.
And ow, such a gurgly stomach still! I should probably stop eating chocolate too. Had a few bits today. I must check my MFP logs to see when I gave up chocolate for a while. I remember saying to a friend on a walk that my digestion was fantastic because I was eating fruit for snacks, and wonder if that was when I was off the chocolate. I'd given up the chocolate in order to have no caffeine intake, since I enjoy not drinking any beverages with caffeine, and when I tried cacao nibs, they knocked me around. I'm turning into one of those annoyingly *difficult* eaters!!! |
25th November 2019, 06:05 AM | #272 |
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25th November 2019, 06:09 AM | #273 |
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It probably still contains caffeine, but there can't be room for any milk, I think: Lindt 99%. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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25th November 2019, 06:18 AM | #274 |
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Back to the obesity epidemic: We are the champions! - probably due to the trans-fat ban in 2004:
Denmark has the lowest number of obese people in the EU (DR.dk, Nov. 23, 2019) |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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25th November 2019, 07:17 PM | #275 |
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26th November 2019, 01:13 AM | #276 |
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Yes, cacao nibs contain caffeine, and other (obscure to me) stimulants.
It was the caffeine that knocked me around, not any milk, of which there was none. I had less than 5g of nibs. Been a year since I gave up caffeine, nearly 2 years without alcohol. The natural highs of being healthy are wonderful. Those external stimulated highs and subsequent lows are not nice when you're aware of the difference, and used to the feeling of being normal and well nearly all the time. Denmark is a rat park. Social services, childcare, welfare, cities, and levels of activity are far far better than places like most of the US. The trans fats ban would be only one reason when those factors are taken into account, though related to a country/Scandinavia-wide zeitgeist that implements healthy policies. Yes, I do know common, highly palatable, calorie-dense foods can contain trans fats. (I must point out that you seemed to think a while back that I didn't know trans fats are bad. Underestimating me in another way I didn't mention earlier.) You've now mentioned them a few times. What is your personal direct experience of trans fats if you now bring them up again? |
26th November 2019, 02:04 AM | #277 |
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I only brought up trans fats again because they were in the news. (And I should have added that the Danes aren't even European champions. The Swiss are, I think, but they aren't in the EU. And they don't come anywhere near Southeast Asians!)
Other causes for Denmark's position in the EU were mentioned in the article:
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The WHO is trying to do just that: WHO plan to eliminate industrially-produced trans-fatty acids from global food supply (WHO, May 14, 2018). In the meantime, Healthline seems to be a pretty reliable source of information about trans fats and health in general: 7 Foods That Still Contain Trans Fats (Healthline, Oct, 29, 2018) |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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28th November 2019, 03:38 AM | #278 | |||
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This is shocking!
The Guardian, Nov. 20, 2019: The food deserts of Memphis: inside America's hunger capital | Divided Cities (13 min.):
"In the wealthiest part of greater Memphis, people live 13 years longer on average than in the poorest" "When grocery store operators look at: Can they make money? The answer from their perspective is: possibly but probably not." "The gap between the quality of rich and poor Americans' diets has widened over the past two decades." By the way, if you look at the highlighted sentence, the same difference can be found in a major city in Denmark:
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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28th November 2019, 06:41 AM | #279 |
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28th November 2019, 09:25 AM | #280 | |||
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The article claims that "you get these lifestyle diseases because you eat and live more unhealthy, exercise less and consume more alcohol."
But take a look at the graphs that accompany the article: uddannelse: education økonomi: (personal) finances disponibel indkomst: earnings after tax has been deducted It doesn't mention genetics at all.
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Some people don't eat any cheese at all, East Asians, for instance, and they seem to be doing better than the rest of us. But I'm pretty sure that they don't eat much fancy cheese on the wrong side of Memphis or Aalborg! This is not related to the article, but you might be interested in this speech by Arne Astrup about carbohydrates, satiety, diabetes, insulin resistance, the blood-sugar diet etc. Many intersting illustrations: EFAD Webinar- Oats and the Microbiome: Potential Link For Metabolic Health? (Nov. 26, 2019)
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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