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Old 28th September 2021, 10:04 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Re: your edit. The interviewer said Ferrell was in a group farther behind, and the kid did this to other packs of cyclists ahead of him. Ferrel does not say he saw anything, least of all this invisible group that coal was being blown on while he hit the other 6, but only heard sounds.

When you see something and are interviewed about it, do you omit everything you saw and only describe what you heard? Does a journalist normally edit out the actual visible account, which would be viewed as eyewitness proof?
Maybe he did not see because between him and the event was a huge cloud of black smoke?
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:04 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Re: your edit. The interviewer said Ferrell was in a group farther behind, and the kid did this to other packs of cyclists ahead of him. Ferrel does not say he saw anything, least of all this invisible group that coal was being blown on while he hit the other 6, but only heard sounds.

When you see something and are interviewed about it, do you omit everything you saw and only describe what you heard? Does a journalist normally edit out the actual visible account, which would be viewed as eyewitness proof?
Maybe he had a hard time seeing exactly what happened, what with all the smoke in his eyes. Doesn't mean he couldnt infer that the big blob 50yards, or 100yards, or whatever, was the truck that just passed him, and it was now located approximately where the bicyclists in front of him were in his field of vision, and that the noises he heard were the sound of said truck hitting said bicyclists.
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:05 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
Maybe I'm dense, but how is it a dogwhistle if that is what he was doing?
Thermal seems to believe that "rolling coal" is irrelevant to the event, despite a witness to the aggressive driving describing this person doing exactly this immediately prior to the wreck.

If you're confused by this, so am I.
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:05 AM   #84
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The giant cloud of smoke that just magically appeared and wasn't evidence that the teen of undetermined political stance was coal rolling you mean...
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:10 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
Maybe I'm dense, but how is it a dogwhistle if that is what he was doing?
Because if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and is currently dabbling in a pond, Thermal demands that it could in fact be a soaring condor until l, I don’t even know.
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:14 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Blasting fumes on cyclists behind you is a jerkwad thing to do. It happens all day, every day.

Running over a pack of cyclists from behind is actually a separate, much more rare, and unrelated thing.
Yelling racists taunts is unrelated to the same people carrying out lynchings.

It supplies the why that takes this from ‘possible accident’ to ‘incident that happened while intentionally harassing a group of people.’
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:19 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Maybe he did not see because between him and the event was a huge cloud of black smoke?
Then I would expect the words that came out of his mouth to be along the lines of "I saw the truck pull between two groups of cyclists. I then saw him accelerate into the 6 victims before the black cloud obscured them. Then, I heard the predictable accompanying sounds".

But I'm bored with this and don't care much anyway.
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:19 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You're (willfully?) missing the point.

Some of us don't live and breathe political posturing every ever loving second of the day. When there is a news story, the headline need not indicate if an actor is black, or a conservative, or whatever, if it isn't relevant to the story.

This one isn't the best example, but it irks me anyway because of how overwhelming the political posturing has become (and I don't think many would deny that). It's just freaking everywhere.
Got it. No need to drag politics into it. Fair enough.

Quote:
I doubt seriously that a 16 yr old driving daddy's truck has refined political opinions. I'd assume he is more of a hick good ol' boy type who relishes being a twat, as many children do.
Oh, but you get to call him republican. Double standard much.

Quote:
So it would seem to me that this should be framed as a story of the recklessness of kids screwing around while driving. Seeing the 'rolling coal' (dogwhistle for Trumper or whatever) in the title just bugs me, after years of hearing the subtle, relentless political framing constantly. I get that it is a real minority opinion here. Oh well.
It isn’t a dog whistle if he was literally doing it.

“Trump ***** on the constitution” is a headline that I expect to see one day and the have to read to see whether it is literally true. In this case I was far less confused.
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:25 AM   #89
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The epa has come after at least one diesel tuner. Any push for real enforcement will end up with the state of Texas going after people who put the wrong sized tires on their Prius.
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:26 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You're (willfully?) missing the point.

Some of us don't live and breathe political posturing every ever loving second of the day. When there is a news story, the headline need not indicate if an actor is black, or a conservative, or whatever, if it isn't relevant to the story.

This one isn't the best example, but it irks me anyway because of how overwhelming the political posturing has become (and I don't think many would deny that). It's just freaking everywhere.
Got it. No need to drag politics into it. Fair enough.
Quote:
I doubt seriously that a 16 yr old driving daddy's truck has refined political opinions. I'd assume he is more of a [hilite]hick good ol' boy type who relishes being a twat, as many children do.[\hilite] [\quote]

Oh, but you get to call him republican. Double standard much.
Did I tho?


Quote:
It isn’t a dog whistle if he was literally doing it.

“Trump ***** on the constitution” is a headline that I expect to see one day and the have to read to see whether it is literally true. I’m this case I was far less confused.
Yeah, I still doubt the kid had demonstrated political opinions. I think he was on a cheap power trip. As I think he was agreed he was driving daddy's truck, no reason to think he was usually a coal-roller. I mean, he prob wasn't the owner, being a minor, right?

I see this as just as likely being a punk kicking sand at randos in daddy's ride because he had the opportunity in someone else's coal roller.

But again, I just don't care this much.
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:29 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Did I tho?




Yeah, I still doubt the kid had demonstrated political opinions. I think he was on a cheap power trip. As I think he was agreed he was driving daddy's truck, no reason to think he was usually a coal-roller. I mean, he prob wasn't the owner, being a minor, right?

I see this as just as likely being a punk kicking sand at randos in daddy's ride because he had the opportunity in someone else's coal roller.

But again, I just don't care this much.
A punk kicking sand at randos because they got their daddy's ride seems like a pretty good broad description of the conservative character most dominant in the country right now. It's light on substance and heavy on machismo dickishness.
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:31 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
But again, I just don't care this much.
Yeah you don't care about any of the hills you die on. We know.
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:36 AM   #93
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Event: Teenager in pickup truck harasses cyclists.

Presumption: "I bet he's one of those coal-rolling trumpsters."

Headline: Coal-rolling teen harasses cyclists.
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:38 AM   #94
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Teen: Oh yeah I was totally coal rolling. Here's my new book "My Life as a Coal Roller"

True(TM) Skeptics Who Hold the One True Skeptic Card: "lEt's NoT jUMp to ANy COnCLUSION!"
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:40 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Event: Teenager in pickup truck harasses cyclists.

Presumption: "I bet he's one of those coal-rolling trumpsters."

Headline: Coal-rolling teen harasses cyclists.
You’re smarter than this.
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:42 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
A punk kicking sand at randos because they got their daddy's ride seems like a pretty good broad description of the conservative character most dominant in the country right now. It's light on substance and heavy on machismo dickishness.
That's it. That's what I'm knee-jerking against.

We have a report of a jerkwad teen. The clear synonym is 'murderous conservatives'. Just rubs me the wrong way.

Most murderous jerkwads I know are apolitical. They are not killing in trump's name. Again, this thread is not a really good example, but it's a great example of how deep the political tentacles are getting into all of our thinking.
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:44 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Event: Teenager in pickup truck harasses cyclists.

Presumption: "I bet he's one of those coal-rolling trumpsters."

Headline: Coal-rolling teen harasses cyclists.
Event: Teengager in pickup truck harrassess cyclists, crashes into cyclists, was witnessed rolling coal on other cyclists.

you can make your own presumptions.

headline seems accurate.

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Old 28th September 2021, 10:45 AM   #98
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1. Why are we still pretending like the kid coal rolling is some unknown variable?
2. Why are we still pretending the people pretending its some unknown variable don't know it either?
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:46 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yeah you don't care about any of the hills you die on. We know.
As usual, *you* are not in the *we*.

*We* are discussing. *You* contribute nothing but trolling.
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:48 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Event: Teenager in pickup truck harasses cyclists.

Presumption: "I bet he's one of those coal-rolling trumpsters."

Headline: Coal-rolling teen harasses cyclists.

Roughly 75 miles into their training ride, Ferrell says a black diesel pickup truck slowed down near him and accelerated to blow smoke in his lane. Moments later, the pickup trick tried doing the same thing to other cyclists riding ahead of Ferrell.

"The reason he couldn’t stop is because he was accelerating to blow more diesel fuel on these cyclists," said Ferrell. "He ended up hitting 3 people before his brakes even started."


https://www.fox26houston.com/news/pi...e-hospitalized

Or are you suggesting people who "roll coal" aren't necessarily Trump supporters?

Or are you suggesting that he did not literally roll coal, so its a misnomer?

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Old 28th September 2021, 10:54 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Roughly 75 miles into their training ride, Ferrell says a black diesel pickup truck slowed down near him and accelerated to blow smoke in his lane. Moments later, the pickup trick tried doing the same thing to other cyclists riding ahead of Ferrell.

"The reason he couldn’t stop is because he was accelerating to blow more diesel fuel on these cyclists," said Ferrell. "He ended up hitting 3 people before his brakes even started."


https://www.fox26houston.com/news/pi...e-hospitalized
Took till post #100 for someone to actually read the article and notice this. I expected it sooner. Well done!

So Ferrel could not only see through the cloud of black fumes, but could count the bikers being hit in relation to hearing the brakes despite being a few packs behind.

Funny how he went from Blinded By The Coal to Hawkeye so fast.
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:59 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Took till post #100 for someone to actually read the article and notice this. I expected it sooner. Well done!

So Ferrel could not only see through the cloud of black fumes, but could count the bikers being hit in relation to hearing the brakes despite being a few packs behind.

Funny how he went from Blinded By The Coal to Hawkeye so fast.
Where did you read he was a few packs behind? All i ever read was he was behind those who were hit. Dont think i saw a distance or number of packs given.
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Old 28th September 2021, 11:01 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
Where did you read he was a few packs behind? All i ever read was he was behind those who were hit. Dont think i saw a distance or number of packs given.
Didn't read. Heard the journalist say so in the video.
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Old 28th September 2021, 11:05 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Took till post #100 for someone to actually read the article and notice this. I expected it sooner. Well done!

So Ferrel could not only see through the cloud of black fumes, but could count the bikers being hit in relation to hearing the brakes despite being a few packs behind.

Funny how he went from Blinded By The Coal to Hawkeye so fast.
Where did he say he was "blinded" exactly? Please show me.
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Old 28th September 2021, 11:07 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Where did he say he was "blinded" exactly? Please show me.
Not him. Posters here arguing that.

But yet again, bored with this one pending new info. See yas.
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Old 28th September 2021, 11:39 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
No, the dogwhistle title did.

WTF?

Originally Posted by thread title
Teen "rolling coal" crashes into group of cyclists, hospitalizes 4
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Old 28th September 2021, 12:17 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Did I tho?
“hick good ol' boy type who relishes being a twat, as many children do”

I merely said she would provide sexual services for proper remuneration, I never called her a whore.


Quote:
Yeah, I still doubt the kid had demonstrated political opinions. I think he was on a cheap power trip. As I think he was agreed he was driving daddy's truck, no reason to think he was usually a coal-roller. I mean, he prob wasn't the owner, being a minor, right?

I see this as just as likely being a punk kicking sand at randos in daddy's ride because he had the opportunity in someone else's coal roller.

But again, I just don't care this much.
So, Trump hasn’t demonstrated political opinions.

Trumpism is a lifestyle choice, not a political ideology.
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Old 28th September 2021, 12:19 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
“hick good ol' boy type who relishes being a twat, as many children do”

I merely said she would provide sexual services for proper remuneration, I never called her a whore.




So, Trump hasn’t demonstrated political opinions.

Trumpism is a lifestyle choice, not a political ideology.
You know... you might actually be onto something there.
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Old 28th September 2021, 12:24 PM   #109
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Old 28th September 2021, 01:53 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Hot damn! An actual witness has come forth (the only interviewed witness, Ferrel, didn't actually see the incident)? Got a link for a brother?
The article cites another cyclist who was there when it happened.
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Old 28th September 2021, 02:37 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Did I tho?




Yeah, I still doubt the kid had demonstrated political opinions. I think he was on a cheap power trip. As I think he was agreed he was driving daddy's truck, no reason to think he was usually a coal-roller. I mean, he prob wasn't the owner, being a minor, right?

I see this as just as likely being a punk kicking sand at randos in daddy's ride because he had the opportunity in someone else's coal roller.

But again, I just don't care this much.
I disagree. Unless he was too stupid to know what he was doing, harassing cyclists by blowing smoke in their faces and purposely flouting the law that says you should give them clearance is inherently a political opinion even if you can manage to argue that it has no conventional left-right component, and even if you can make a case that it's not his usual behavior. If you're not "usually a coal-roller" but do it today, are you not one today?

You can argue for mitigation when a person is young and dumb, but hurting people on purpose is not something you can just try on for size and say "sorry I won't do it again."

It seems to be the norm these days when a person is caught doing something despicable to offer the non-apology "that's not the real me." It seems to be happening again by proxy here. The real you is what you do, not what you say after you're caught.
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Old 28th September 2021, 03:56 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The article cites another cyclist who was there when it happened.
Ok, I'll take the bait. There are about 21 sentences in that article. None mention, allude to, or actually project any other cyclist than one Chase Ferrel. The video has another guy who makes some general statements, but no witness accounts.

Would you mind being more specific about where you found reference to another interviewed witness "in the article"? Just the number of which article line will do. I'll chase it down.
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Old 28th September 2021, 04:03 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I disagree. Unless he was too stupid to know what he was doing, harassing cyclists by blowing smoke in their faces and purposely flouting the law that says you should give them clearance is inherently a political opinion even if you can manage to argue that it has no conventional left-right component, and even if you can make a case that it's not his usual behavior. If you're not "usually a coal-roller" but do it today, are you not one today?
I dunno. I can except a Beavis. and Butthead kid as being apolitical, and being an impromptu jerk when given the opportunity. If it is actually his truck, that he has wished for since kindergarten to pwn the libs with and his oil company owning daddy bought for him, then I'd agree that it is just where his head is at.

When punks play The Knockout Game, they don't run a political affiliation survey first. Just "whoever" can be the victim of their sociopathic pastime.

Quote:
You can argue for mitigation when a person is young and dumb, but hurting people on purpose is not something you can just try on for size and say "sorry I won't do it again."

It seems to be the norm these days when a person is caught doing something despicable to offer the non-apology "that's not the real me." It seems to be happening again by proxy here. The real you is what you do, not what you say after you're caught.
I argue not a whit to minimalize what he did. He is responsible as any other criminal. What are you talking about?
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Old 28th September 2021, 04:44 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
No, the dogwhistle title did. I just pointed to the undercurrent subtext. Which, as I'm sure you see, was right there on the tip of everyone's tongue.

Not mine. Never occurred to me.

Are we all forgetting that this kid is 16 and probably has very little skill operating a truck? Any screw up on his part - checking the mirror, whatever - could wind up killing someone.

I don't see the big mystery.

When I was 16 I deliberately hit a large puddle to splash someone. I wasn't paying attention and I slid into a car in front of me turning into the store's driveway.
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Old 28th September 2021, 04:51 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Not mine. Never occurred to me.

Are we all forgetting that this kid is 16 and probably has very little skill operating a truck? Any screw up on his part - checking the mirror, whatever - could wind up killing someone.

I don't see the big mystery.

When I was 16 I deliberately hit a large puddle to splash someone. I wasn't paying attention and I slid into a car in front of me turning into the store's driveway.
Well...yeah. Thats what I'm saying. This isn't a coal-roller story. It's a dumbass punk kid story. So why is it internationally newsworthy? Two words: rolling coal. Without those two magic words, none of us would have ever heard of this.

And while you maybe didn't make the connection, virtually every other poster did, and continue to argue it. .
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Old 28th September 2021, 05:40 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Ok, I'll take the bait. There are about 21 sentences in that article. None mention, allude to, or actually project any other cyclist than one Chase Ferrel.
That was him. That was the witness. The article says he was riding in the same field of cyclists and that the truck blew smoke at him moments before it hit the cyclists ahead. He was literally right there when the incident happened.
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Old 28th September 2021, 05:57 PM   #117
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Various points taken, but still disagree on the gesture. It does not matter what this kid does 6 days of the week if on the seventh he blows diesel smoke in the face of a bicycling group. It's a popularly anti-environmentalist gesture at a specific set of victims, and the only way to suggest that he doesn't damned well know it is to say he's too stupid to be let loose.

You can't pretend you didn't do the exact thing you just did by saying you don't normally do it.
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Old 28th September 2021, 08:04 PM   #118
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i have now learned what 'rolling coal' is. I don't feel I have gained much by this knowledge.
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Old 28th September 2021, 09:45 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Well...yeah. Thats what I'm saying. This isn't a coal-roller story. It's a dumbass punk kid story. So why is it internationally newsworthy? Two words: rolling coal. Without those two magic words, none of us would have ever heard of this.
What I don't understand is why certain of the simple facts of this case have you so upset that you object even to the very mention of them.

Normally drivers who play at "rolling coal" on somebody are doing it to another vehicle that's immediately behind them. The natural windstream blows the smoke directly at the targeted car. This individual was trying it on some cyclists who apparently were riding together on the shoulder, or at least near the edge of the road in any case. This required him to drive his truck out of his lane and dangerously and recklessly close to the cyclists in order to ensure that the diesel smoke actually reached and affected them instead of just blowing past them. The result of this reckless operation was an accident that caused four cyclists to be hospitalized. His attempt at doing this particular stunt directly caused the accident, it's not simply something that he was coincidentally doing at the time and it can't be separated from the consequences that followed.

Yes, fine, "rolling coal" is very well known to be something frivolous that conservative truck owners do expressly to piss off liberals; but so what? Why does that fact all by itself mean that you now just have to die on a hill of insisting that the stunt this driver was trying to pull "had nothing to do with" the accident that it directly led to? If he hadn't been trying to "roll coal" on people on the side of the road, the accident would not have happened.
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:58 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
What I don't understand is why certain of the simple facts of this case have you so upset that you object even to the very mention of them.

Normally drivers who play at "rolling coal" on somebody are doing it to another vehicle that's immediately behind them. The natural windstream blows the smoke directly at the targeted car. This individual was trying it on some cyclists who apparently were riding together on the shoulder, or at least near the edge of the road in any case. This required him to drive his truck out of his lane and dangerously and recklessly close to the cyclists in order to ensure that the diesel smoke actually reached and affected them instead of just blowing past them. The result of this reckless operation was an accident that caused four cyclists to be hospitalized. His attempt at doing this particular stunt directly caused the accident, it's not simply something that he was coincidentally doing at the time and it can't be separated from the consequences that followed.

Yes, fine, "rolling coal" is very well known to be something frivolous that conservative truck owners do expressly to piss off liberals; but so what? Why does that fact all by itself mean that you now just have to die on a hill of insisting that the stunt this driver was trying to pull "had nothing to do with" the accident that it directly led to? If he hadn't been trying to "roll coal" on people on the side of the road, the accident would not have happened.
"The thing he was expressly trying to do had nothing to do with the result of him doing it."

Boggles the mind, really.

I mean, he only wanted to make people breathe noxious gasses, but it isn't like he wanted to hurt anyone.

Breathing diesel exhaust fumes (especially unburned particulates including carbon, COx, NOx, ash, metallic abrasion particles, mercury, sulfates, and silicates) can have immediate, acute effects. Creating unclean, only partially burned/consumed exhaust is the entire purpose of "rolling coal." It would not surprise me if temporary blindness, confusion, disorientation, or outright loss of consciousness may have occurred and contributed to or caused the collision(s).

So it amounts to intentionally spewing poisonous, potentially lethal gasses at other people. Which makes the idea that no criminal charge could be found even more absurd. Another potential "political" angle of the story is that police aren't exactly without creativity in finding charges for otherwise benign behaviors when they feel like it (there's a whole thread full of examples), yet are at a loss here and can't come up with one.

Hell, just start with "intentionally tampering with or disabling the emissions system of a licensed motor vehicle."

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