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Old 19th October 2018, 01:42 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by CptColumbo View Post
....
I thought I heard that they also had lip readers try to recreate what the men are saying in the films.
Somewhere up there...

Originally Posted by fagin View Post
...

They also used lip readers to work out what soldiers in the footage were saying.

...
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Old 19th October 2018, 01:45 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Somewhere up there...
Sorry, just too lazy to read all the post completely.
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Old 31st October 2018, 04:47 PM   #43
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Intereseting.
But come on Peter, do that new version of "THe Dam Busters" you are always talking about doing,.
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Old 31st October 2018, 05:14 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Intereseting.
But come on Peter, do that new version of "THe Dam Busters" you are always talking about doing,.
Sadly the funding fell through and it looks like it's not going to happen, at least in the short term. They do have a lot of props and things for it, so perhaps if someone is willing to fund it, it might happen in the future.
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Old 1st November 2018, 01:55 AM   #45
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For those in the UK, it's on BBC2 at 9:30pm on 11th November.
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Old 1st November 2018, 02:31 AM   #46
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Hopefully it'll then be on iPlayer as 9.30 is a bit late on a Sunday.
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Old 1st November 2018, 03:37 AM   #47
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It was co-commissioned by the BBC so you'd think it would be on iPlayer afterwards. There's also a behind the scenes documentary on the 12th on BBC4.
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Old 1st November 2018, 03:55 AM   #48
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They have done an amazing job, but I have to say you can still tell it was colorized, rather than originally filmed in color. I don't know how to describe it, but there is just something slightly "off" when watching colorized films. I think the biggest giveaway with this colorization is the people. Something about the coloring of the skin tones just feels unreal somehow, like everyone is wearing makeup.
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Old 1st November 2018, 04:34 AM   #49
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iPlayer are pretty good about including films, but it often comes down to the copyright holders, and some can be awkward. I would have thought this would be ok though.
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Old 9th January 2019, 10:37 PM   #50
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Cool

Been nominated for a BAFTA

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertain...ectid=12188091
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Old 15th January 2019, 08:44 PM   #51
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Acquired by alternative means. Wow. And the voices were "real," too. Wow.
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Old 15th January 2019, 08:55 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by dropzone View Post
Acquired by alternative means. Wow. And the voices were "real," too. Wow.
...?
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Old 15th January 2019, 09:28 PM   #53
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Decades ago the Beeb realized the Tommies were dying off so they had a big project recording their oral history.
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Old 15th January 2019, 10:23 PM   #54
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AMAZING!!!!!
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Old 21st January 2019, 09:22 AM   #55
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Well played Mister Jackson, well played
Can't wait to see the Docu

I've been a digital video editor from the very beginnings of the concept, but I'm always in awe of how film will retain the information on it for so long, allowing it to be restored. Digital ain't gone-a be like that, DVDs and CDs do degrade.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:22 AM   #56
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Saw it here in the US when it was screened again on a special one night only release. I found it very affecting. I have seen WWI footage in the past, but the quality issues, especially the frame rate issues, made it seem unreal. The corrected and restored footage was really something special.

I stuck around after the credits for Jackson's "making of" video that explain some of the technical work done. Seems that they have lots and lots of footage that they restored, but ultimately didn't use in order to keep the scope of the film focused (which seems a wise decision). I would hope that it is included in a home release.

To my American ear, some of the voices were a bit hard to make sense of. Given that many of them were elderly when recorded, and some had quite thick accents, this is to be expected. I imagine a brit wouldn't have this problem. If it were watching at home, I would probably opt for subtitles at some points.

I thought Jackson's solution to having no footage of actual intense hand-to-hand fighting pretty good, considering the lack of better options.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:46 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by dropzone View Post
Acquired by alternative means. Wow. And the voices were "real," too. Wow.
Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
...?
Some of the narration was interviews from archives. Not directly linked to the images, but picked to be relevant.

Some of the voices from the actual films were re-created. The original films didn't record sound, but they got lip-readers to create scripts and used actors to put voices to the images.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:02 AM   #58
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Not just actors, but actors from the same region of the UK as the unit of the soldier speaking was recruited from (British/Commonwealth units being local in a lot of cases). It's likely as close as we're going to get to hearing the voices of these men speak.

It was fascinating watching this movie last night - my wife was struck by how young many of them were - I was struck by the utter familiarity of the routine of soldiering and the ways the men described it. And in another 100 years, someone's going to remark on how little soldiering has changed.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 11:00 AM   #59
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I saw it last night.
Amazing.

Most striking was the proximity of enemy lines (3d allowed some reference), and the makeup of the trenches. Not just a grey dirt, but a black, watery, mossy, debris laden disgusting trench.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 01:07 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
I saw it last night.
Amazing.

Most striking was the proximity of enemy lines (3d allowed some reference), and the makeup of the trenches. Not just a grey dirt, but a black, watery, mossy, debris laden disgusting trench.
Goodbye to all That by Robert Graves rammed that home to me too.

He was an officer in two regiments, one, The Royal Welch was a first-class regiment and aimed to dominate no-man's land. The other was a bantam regiment and didn't.

He describes in the first sighting a rifle at a German who was washing and not being being able to shoot an oblivious person, so he gave the rifle to his sergeant.

Utterly horrific.
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Old 4th February 2019, 03:36 AM   #61
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I saw that documentary on BBC 2 a couple of evenings ago and found it very interesting. It seems to have been partly financed by something like the New Zealand Film Corporation. There were lots and lots of clips in colour of life at the front and trenches, and even battlefield, which I have never seen before.

The commentary was mainly taken from oral records of the soldiers themselves taken from the national archives when they were relatively young, which is a bit unusual nowadays. They seemed to think the war was something to do with the Balkans and then suddenly war was declared. Many of them were happy to join up to escape from boring jobs and join their local County regiments like the Buckinghamshire Regiment, or Worcestershire Regiment.

It could be that the horrors of that war have been censored in the past, and the emotional strain, and the soldiers themselves never talked about it. It ended with one soldier saying they felt that they had been made redundant when the war ended, and then they returned to mass unemployment where they were not welcomed by employers. The general population who were never in France or Belgium were out of touch with reality, which is a bit like now. They had to talk to mothers about their sons being killed who were very bitter about it. One soldier said he thinks war is horrible, which applies nowadays.
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Old 4th February 2019, 11:07 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by dropzone View Post
Decades ago the Beeb realized the Tommies were dying off so they had a big project recording their oral history.
I think that was actually the Imperial War Museum. Peter Hart made a career out of interviewing veterans and is probably the foremost oral historian of the war.

Highly recommend checking out his new book 'The Last Battle'
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Old 5th February 2019, 07:51 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I saw that documentary on BBC 2 a couple of evenings ago and found it very interesting. It seems to have been partly financed by something like the New Zealand Film Corporation. There were lots and lots of clips in colour of life at the front and trenches, and even battlefield, which I have never seen before.
You are aware that these are the black and white footage which has been restored and coloured?
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Old 5th February 2019, 08:09 AM   #64
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Yes.
Supposedly his research team matched colors with fabric, paints etc... to get as close to what it would have looked like as possible.
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Old 5th February 2019, 02:40 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Yes.
Supposedly his research team matched colors with fabric, paints etc... to get as close to what it would have looked like as possible.
There was a half hour "making of" feature at the end when I saw it.

They explained how they did the colour matching, using actual equipment from the era where possible to get the right sounds, getting actors from the same area in The UK where the troops filmed were raised to get the accents right.

It really was indicative of the level of effort that was put into this. I'm going to have to pick this up when it comes out
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Old 6th February 2019, 07:09 AM   #66
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Out in the UK now, bought it on Blue Ray and it was well worth it.
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Old 6th February 2019, 11:15 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
You are aware that these are the black and white footage which has been restored and coloured?
Yes. It has been discussed on this thread. In the old days much of the 1914-18 film clips were shown on TV like an old Charlie Chaplin comedy film or keystone cops with everybody rushing about as though they had ants in their pants. I think that is because the film was originally shot at 16 frames a second and shown on TV at 25 frames a second. In recent years there have been techniques to slow that film down and make it more compatible and realistic on TV. This adding of colour is a relatively new development though it was originally tried in the early days of film but never caught on for some reason. It works in my opinion and brings the whole thing to life. I would have thought it could be tried with much of the second world war footage, like in the North Africa battles and battles in Russia. It's of historical importance.
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Old 7th February 2019, 03:12 AM   #68
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There is a discussion about the varying film speeds as they apply to the 1914-18 war at this website:

https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/questio...X&guccounter=1

Quote:
Best Answer: The original films were shot at all sorts of varying speeds. The earliest cameras were hand turned and that could lead to all sorts of effects. The more slowly you turned the camera when recording an image the more jerky it would look when projected at a standard speed. There is no reason that the film can't be "smoothed out ". In the series on the first world war an extra frame was inserted after every two, making 16 frames a second into 24 which is the standard sound projection speed. Speeded up the comical jerky effect would have ruined the seriousness of the subject.

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Old 7th February 2019, 08:23 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
Yes. It has been discussed on this thread.
Well, that was my point; the way you said it implied you thought it was new information.
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Old 7th February 2019, 01:00 PM   #70
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Hopefully others will be able to take the techniques developed by Peter Jackson and his team, and apply it to some of the other footage out there. It doesn't have to be the whole hog (ie. getting voice actors with the correct accents for a given unit), but fixing the hand-cranked look of most footage from the era would go a very long way.

For starters, imagine if the technique was applied to the 1916 propaganda film "The Battle of the Somme". I recall seeing a documentary that delved a bit into it, including trying to find out who the Tommy carrying a wounded soldier through the trenches was.

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Old 7th February 2019, 04:12 PM   #71
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If you watched the post-credits "making-of" mini documentary, Jackson comments that the speeds were all over the place, and they basically hand-tuned each segment. They show examples of sequences at +1, 0, and -1 FPS to illustrate how easy it is to tell when the speed is wrong.
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Old 8th February 2019, 05:40 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
Hopefully others will be able to take the techniques developed by Peter Jackson and his team, and apply it to some of the other footage out there. It doesn't have to be the whole hog (ie. getting voice actors with the correct accents for a given unit), but fixing the hand-cranked look of most footage from the era would go a very long way.

For starters, imagine if the technique was applied to the 1916 propaganda film "The Battle of the Somme". I recall seeing a documentary that delved a bit into it, including trying to find out who the Tommy carrying a wounded soldier through the trenches was.
I can only see it being done worse. Very few will have the money and tech to do what Jackson did. I even see now a lot of the "Ken Burns" effect not done very well. There's also a new trend to separate the foreground from the background and give the characters a little bit of motion or 3D mapping. That's an alteration, not a restoration.
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Old 10th February 2019, 11:45 AM   #73
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Saw it last night very good treatment of the subject - to short as I would like to have seen the aerial material restored also. As an old artilleryman I enjoyed the piece were a BL 8-inch howitzer Mk VI is firing and knocking shingles off a nearby house.
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Old 11th February 2019, 05:09 AM   #74
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I'm sure it's been said that they restored a lot more footage than appeared in the film.
Something on the order of 100 hours?
I get the impression he got a bit carried away.
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Old 11th February 2019, 06:10 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I can only see it being done worse. Very few will have the money and tech to do what Jackson did. I even see now a lot of the "Ken Burns" effect not done very well. There's also a new trend to separate the foreground from the background and give the characters a little bit of motion or 3D mapping. That's an alteration, not a restoration.
Typically the first attempt at new film technology is the most expensive. they will sell the ideas, or people will hire the people from the original studio, and it will propogate and become less expensive.

This is why they can do things like WW2 In Color season after season.

30 years ago colorized videos were few and far between.
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Old 12th February 2019, 08:04 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Typically the first attempt at new film technology is the most expensive. they will sell the ideas, or people will hire the people from the original studio, and it will propogate and become less expensive.

This is why they can do things like WW2 In Color season after season.

30 years ago colorized videos were few and far between.
Yes hopefully in a generation or so all the old WWI film will be restored - perhaps not to the level Jackson did but colorized, speed and image corrected.
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Old 12th February 2019, 10:20 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
I'm sure it's been said that they restored a lot more footage than appeared in the film.
Something on the order of 100 hours?
I get the impression he got a bit carried away.
Think the point of the preject was to restore a large amount for the war museum for historical record and the documentary followed this as a separate project idea. (Every school in the UK was given a copy as an educational tool).

Not the other way round.

Then when it became obvious a lot of people might want to see it outside visitors, students etc they did a small release in theaters, then it grew from there.
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Old 19th February 2019, 06:42 AM   #78
Bob001
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This is now in wide release in the U.S. The reviews are raves.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/31/m...ld-review.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/going...=.42f22e62fe11
https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/...review-783310/
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...y-astonishing/
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Old 20th February 2019, 10:24 AM   #79
Hans
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The end of the movie at the credits has an particularly good rendition of a WWI song - and as Jackson noted he wanted the song with British accents and being in NZ he had to ask the UK embassy to provide the assortment of accents needed to give the song that 'British tone' to non-professional singers singing.
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Old 20th February 2019, 01:11 PM   #80
fagin
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IMO it's success is due to a labour of love, well executed.

Simple but vital combination.
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