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Old 17th April 2018, 04:58 AM   #241
Michel H
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Michel, read what I wrote earlier about the situation in Ghouta and the nature of the "Army of Islam". This was one of the most vicious "rebel" groups ever, no inch better than ISIS, known for countless atrocities including their habit of carrying prisoners around on pick-ups with cages to use them as human shields. I have my problems with the "moderate rebel" label, but there are differences and I'm not surprised that now they are in Idlib, the Al-Qaeda affiliate HTS doesn't want the "Army of Islam" leaders to run around freely.

There also have been constant infights in the Eastern Ghouta pocket between them, Faylaq al-Rahman and Al Qaeda, with them being the most brutal (towards everything that moves including the residents of the cities under their control).

But of course by now the residents will be conditioned to keep their head low, so maybe they don't literally love Assad, but they certainly love to be freed from their previous oppressors.
Do you think the West might be making now a monumental mistake with respect to Syria and Bashar al-Assad, similar to what they did in 2003, when they (though without France then) invaded Iraq, officially to rid it of chemical weapons, which actually were never found?
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Old 17th April 2018, 05:28 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
Do you think the West might be making now a monumental mistake with respect to Syria and Bashar al-Assad, similar to what they did in 2003, when they (though without France then) invaded Iraq, officially to rid it of chemical weapons, which actually were never found?

I don't think "mistake" is the correct word. I and another user of this forum have started a wiki about Syria more than five years ago, because on the wikipedia you will always find controversial topics like this "streamlined" so that they fit the "official narrative", ending up with ridiculous stuff like your quote about "The Siege of Ghouta isolating 400,000 people in a 100 square kilometre area". Imagine a couple of thousand Hell's Angels taking over a US city. In wikipedia you would in analogy read how the US regime sieged that city and isolated 400,000 people.

Anyway, on my userpage on our wiki I have collected some texts and videos I think are essential for understanding what has been going on. You are very welcome to take a look here.
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Old 17th April 2018, 07:07 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
Do you think the West might be making now a monumental mistake with respect to Syria and Bashar al-Assad, similar to what they did in 2003, when they (though without France then) invaded Iraq, officially to rid it of chemical weapons, which actually were never found?

Wasn't it nuclear weapons which were never found?

"The West" knew perfectly well that Saddam had chemical weapons. They helped him produce and deploy them against the Iranians. As well as standing by without much comment when he used them against his own people (Who just happened to be Kurds sitting on a lot of oil.). They also found them after the invasion. In fact, if I am not mistaken they are still contending with the decontamination of some of the storage sites which they found.
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Old 17th April 2018, 08:32 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Wasn't it nuclear weapons which were never found?

"The West" knew perfectly well that Saddam had chemical weapons. They helped him produce and deploy them against the Iranians. As well as standing by without much comment when he used them against his own people (Who just happened to be Kurds sitting on a lot of oil.). They also found them after the invasion. In fact, if I am not mistaken they are still contending with the decontamination of some of the storage sites which they found.
I can perhaps quote wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_i...aulty_evidence ):
Quote:
The central U.S. justification for launching the war was that Saddam Hussein's alleged development of nuclear and biological weapons and purported ties to al-Qaeda made his regime a "grave and growing"[257] threat to the United States and the world community.[258] During the lead-up to the war and the aftermath of the invasion, critics cast doubt on the evidence supporting this rationale. Concerning Iraq's weapons programs, prominent critics included Scott Ritter, a former U.N. weapons inspector who argued in 2002 that inspections had eliminated the nuclear and chemical weapons programs, and that evidence of their reconstitution would "have been eminently detectable by intelligence services ..."
and:
Quote:
Iraq actively researched and later employed weapons of mass destruction from the 1962 to 1991, when it destroyed its chemical weapons stockpile and halted its biological and nuclear weapon programs.[1]
(link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_a...ss_destruction ).
There was some emphasis on alleged biological weapons before the 2003 invasion, as you can see from this February 2003 speech of Colin Powell:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9JM_uSG5Aw
When I was writing about "chemical weapons", I was speaking loosely and was not distinguishing between chemical and biological. If your story of chemical stockpiles found in Iraq after the invasion is accurate, I invite you to back it up with a link.
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Old 17th April 2018, 09:14 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
It's not sane government. What you happen to believe, or your opinion, isn't evidence. There is not even the black Jew Colin Powell's dodgy dossier in this case to launch criminal aggressive war against a small and weak country. It's only because Israel is America's ally that there is corrupt bias by the media.

There are people who think the Syrian opposition have used chemical weapons in the past, and there has not been a whiff of condemnation, or action about it from the public or House of Commons.

That Skripel case is still opinions by some kind of National security adviser jerk who thinks it 'highly likely', which I consider to be highly unlikely. Just because the Russian secret police have bumped people off before is not proof that they attempted to bump off the Skripels:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22424188
Can you explain why the race or supposed religion of Colin Powell

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
They had a debate in the House of Commons yesterday about Syria which was mostly a lot of emotional women and bisexuals saying that Assad must go, after they had talked to some 'moderate' Syrians living in Britain, and the BBC. Then what? A journalist then said that Corbyn was wrong to say the United Nations should be involved because international law no longer exists!

As I understand it these chemical warfare inspectors only detect if a chemical attack has taken place. They never attach blame, perhaps because that's almost impossible to detect. It all comes down as usual to a 'highly likely' opinion. The fact is that the Syrian opposition have used chemical weapons in the past even if the Syrian army has used them as well, which has never been proved in every case beyond reasonable doubt. It all leads to false accusations, and even injustices, which could lead to a world war.
Can you explain why gender or sexual orientation is important here?
I guess that you are a straight male, but that doesn't mean that I am a drooling conspiracy theorist with a nice sideline in homophobia, misogyny, racism and antisemitism.

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
They had an interview with a Syrian gentleman on RT today who used to work for the destroyed scientific facility. He said that it was a pharmaceutical research facility, a bit like Glaxo, and that it had been regularly inspected and samples taken away by chemical weapons inspectors. Elsewhere it was reported it was last inspected last November. I suppose you could say that's manufactured evidence, or propaganda, but it's interesting information to me.

It's "highly likely" that Israel and Saudi Arabia were both involved somehow in 9/11 but nobody started shooting missiles at them then.
You brought up 9/11.
Maybe someone who worked for the Syrian government and interviewed by Russian media would be unlikely to admit to manufacturing chemical weapons... almost like a straightforward and easy to understand conspiracy.
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Old 17th April 2018, 09:23 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I don't think "mistake" is the correct word. I and another user of this forum have started a wiki about Syria more than five years ago, because on the wikipedia you will always find controversial topics like this "streamlined" so that they fit the "official narrative", ending up with ridiculous stuff like your quote about "The Siege of Ghouta isolating 400,000 people in a 100 square kilometre area". Imagine a couple of thousand Hell's Angels taking over a US city. In wikipedia you would in analogy read how the US regime sieged that city and isolated 400,000 people.

Anyway, on my userpage on our wiki I have collected some texts and videos I think are essential for understanding what has been going on. You are very welcome to take a look here.
I have looked at your wiki page, Empress, the cartoon is funny and, I am afraid, fairly lucid. So you are saying there was actually never a real siege of Ghouta by Assad. You may be right, though CNN said, on March 1, 2018:
Quote:
UN says Syrian regime not allowing aid convoy to enter Eastern Ghouta
(https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/01/m...ntl/index.html ).

Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_...es_allegations ) says:
Quote:
The siege by the Syrian government left the enclave under a humanitarian crisis, leading to famine and a lack of food.[48][49][50] According to a 2014 United Nations report, the denial of food as a military strategy began during July and August 2013: Eastern Ghouta's crops and farms were shelled and burned. The report also alleged that Syrian forces "blocked access roads and systematically confiscated food, fuel and medicine at checkpoints". Some inhabitants had to rely on tree leaves as an alternative for vegetables to survive.[51] The rebels established a web of underground tunnels to smuggle supplies, but they were destroyed by the government forces.[52]

UNICEF Representatives said that at least 12% of children under 5 were acutely malnourished in the enclave in early 2018.[53] On 27 October 2017, the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, Zeid Ra'ad Al Hussein, warned that "the deliberate starvation of civilians as a method of warfare constitutes a clear violation of international humanitarian law" and called for access of humanitarian workers to deliver aid to the people of Eastern Ghouta.[54] The Syrian government restricted humanitarian aid to the enclave. On 30 October 2017, supplies were allowed to only 40,000 residents in the two cities of Kafr Batna and Saqba.[2] One U.N. aid convoy arrived to Eastern Ghouta in Feberuary 2018, only after it had no access for 78 days.[55]
This seems serious to me (many references are given). If you think this is not accurate, you can perhaps edit wikipedia (I notice that you seem to know a lot). I have myself edited a wikipedia page about one month and a half ago (with help from some members of this forum) and the edit has not been reversed, until now.

Last edited by Michel H; 17th April 2018 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 17th April 2018, 10:11 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
This seems serious to me (many references are given). If you think this is not accurate, you can perhaps edit wikipedia (I notice that you seem to know a lot). I have myself edited a wikipedia page about one month and a half ago (with help from some members of this forum) and the edit has not been reversed, until now.

No, I can't. Wikipedia is a great innovation of the internet, the collective mind, and I have contributed to it very early on, starting the articles about my home town, my school, my university etc. But the more controversial a topic is, the more it is in the nature of wikipedia's functionality that the "common wisdom" prevails over alternative views, and alternative views that are not covered in mainstream media are outright oppressed. That's why there are countless wikis on special topics trying to cover more than that "common wisdom". Our "mission statement" is outlined here, and it has proven relevant ever since we wrote it in 2012.

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 17th April 2018 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 17th April 2018, 10:25 AM   #248
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My, Putin's little helpers are showing up....
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Old 17th April 2018, 04:18 PM   #249
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[quote=Michel H;12261243]
Originally Posted by Michel H
<snip>

Quote:
Iraq actively researched and later employed weapons of mass destruction from the 1962 to 1991, when it destroyed its chemical weapons stockpile and halted its biological and nuclear weapon programs.[1]
(link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_a...ss_destruction ).
There was some emphasis on alleged biological weapons before the 2003 invasion, as you can see from this February 2003 speech of Colin Powell:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9JM_uSG5Aw
When I was writing about "chemical weapons", I was speaking loosely and was not distinguishing between chemical and biological. If your story of chemical stockpiles found in Iraq after the invasion is accurate, I invite you to back it up with a link.

Yeah, well, they didn't do all that good of a job of destroying those earlier weapons.

Quote:
Five years after President George W. Bush sent troops into Iraq, these soldiers had entered an expansive but largely secret chapter of America’s long and bitter involvement in Iraq.

From 2004 to 2011, American and American-trained Iraqi troops repeatedly encountered, and on at least six occasions were wounded by, chemical weapons remaining from years earlier in Saddam Hussein’s rule.

In all, American troops secretly reported finding roughly 5,000 chemical warheads, shells or aviation bombs, according to interviews with dozens of participants, Iraqi and American officials, and heavily redacted intelligence documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.

...

The New York Times found 17 American service members and seven Iraqi police officers who were exposed to nerve or mustard agents after 2003. American officials said that the actual tally of exposed troops was slightly higher, but that the government’s official count was classified.

The secrecy fit a pattern. Since the outset of the war, the scale of the United States’ encounters with chemical weapons in Iraq was neither publicly shared nor widely circulated within the military. These encounters carry worrisome implications now that the Islamic State, a Qaeda splinter group, controls much of the territory where the weapons were found.

The American government withheld word about its discoveries even from troops it sent into harm’s way and from military doctors. The government’s secrecy, victims and participants said, prevented troops in some of the war’s most dangerous jobs from receiving proper medical care and official recognition of their wounds.
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Old 17th April 2018, 05:31 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Yeah, well, they didn't do all that good of a job of destroying those earlier weapons.

...
Yes, I see what you mean now, this New York Times article seems serious.
But these old chemical weapons were no longer fully operational:
Quote:
All had been manufactured before 1991, participants said. Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all. Some were empty, though many of them still contained potent mustard agent or residual sarin. Most could not have been used as designed, and when they ruptured dispersed the chemical agents over a limited area, according to those who collected the majority of them.
Anyway, this sad story adds even more evidence to the conclusion that the USA gave a lot of trouble both to themselves and to others by (illegally) invading Iraq in 2003. I think that one can dream of a different world, in which the U.S. would be concerned about violations of international law by its traditional ally Israel and would act accordingly. Then they might discover that previously hostile and threatening Arabic or Persian countries or organisations become very friendly ... Bye bye terrorism, welcome intelligence ... (particularly if sanctions are lifted).
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Old 17th April 2018, 08:46 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
Yes, I see what you mean now, this New York Times article seems serious.
But these old chemical weapons were no longer fully operational:

Anyway, this sad story adds even more evidence to the conclusion that the USA gave a lot of trouble both to themselves and to others by (illegally) invading Iraq in 2003. I think that one can dream of a different world, in which the U.S. would be concerned about violations of international law by its traditional ally Israel and would act accordingly. Then they might discover that previously hostile and threatening Arabic or Persian countries or organisations become very friendly ... Bye bye terrorism, welcome intelligence ... (particularly if sanctions are lifted).
Whatever you may think of U.S. intervention in Syria (I'm very uneasy about this as well), it's unacceptable to allow Assad and his backers to control the narrative, that's why it's important to be skeptical of reports from Russian media for instance framing the recent events in Eastern Ghouta as a "liberation" as if Russian and Syrian forces weren't smashing the area to bits, civilians and fighters alike, before that.

Familiarize yourself with the conspiracy theories that have spread through the past few years that have vilified first responders and even hospital workers who've called out government crimes.

And they are very quick to pull the Iraq card whenever convenient in order to stymie honest discussion.
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Old 17th April 2018, 11:05 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Whatever you may think of U.S. intervention in Syria (I'm very uneasy about this as well), it's unacceptable to allow Assad and his backers to control the narrative, that's why it's important to be skeptical of reports from Russian media for instance framing the recent events in Eastern Ghouta as a "liberation" as if Russian and Syrian forces weren't smashing the area to bits, civilians and fighters alike, before that.

Familiarize yourself with the conspiracy theories that have spread through the past few years that have vilified first responders and even hospital workers who've called out government crimes.

And they are very quick to pull the Iraq card whenever convenient in order to stymie honest discussion.

The Iraqi card is needed counter the verdict of Western politicians that "it was highly likely Syria or Russia".

Sergei Lavrov on BBC's Hardtalk pointed this out that the phrase is used to justify "first the punishment, then the verdict" logic being used.

He also quoted a Roman proverb saying who benefits?

This is not legal. What is happening to the rule of law?

Senator Richard Black from Virginia questions whether an attack occurred - https://www.globalresearch.ca/virgin...e-flag/5636194

In another interview he said that as a lawyer, he always asked for motive when there was a crime.

I represented myself in a legal matter and knew the law and procedure backwards. Yet the Judge ignored my written submission (did not read) on the basis that it was "highly likely" I was ignorant of the law and just a vexatious litigant. And that she had the "power" to make any decision no matter how ridiculous. I laid a complaint about her and she and I will appear before the Judicial Services Committee. Judges and lawyers protect their own so I am not hopeful.

I cannot wait until there are robot judges using artificial intelligence. If you reduced the facts in this Syrian affair (both the alleged chemical attack and the bombing by the US, UK and France) to a set of logical statements and then applied the rule of logic you will not get justification for the actions of the West. No doubt robot judges will not be allowed internationally for this reason. The rich will insist on trial by jury of their peers.

Note: Facts are statements given weighting factors. All sides agree facts are given 100% weight. Opinion by media given 5% or perhaps 0%. What does a video made by terrorists get?
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Old 17th April 2018, 11:28 PM   #253
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Medics treating the victims of the attack say they have been subjected to extreme intimidation by the Assad regime

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uma-gas-attack
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Old 18th April 2018, 12:21 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The Iraqi card is needed counter the verdict of Western politicians that "it was highly likely Syria or Russia".

Sergei Lavrov on BBC's Hardtalk pointed this out that the phrase is used to justify "first the punishment, then the verdict" logic being used.

He also quoted a Roman proverb saying who benefits?

This is not legal. What is happening to the rule of law?

Senator Richard Black from Virginia questions whether an attack occurred - https://www.globalresearch.ca/virgin...e-flag/5636194

In another interview he said that as a lawyer, he always asked for motive when there was a crime.

I represented myself in a legal matter and knew the law and procedure backwards. Yet the Judge ignored my written submission (did not read) on the basis that it was "highly likely" I was ignorant of the law and just a vexatious litigant. And that she had the "power" to make any decision no matter how ridiculous. I laid a complaint about her and she and I will appear before the Judicial Services Committee. Judges and lawyers protect their own so I am not hopeful.

I cannot wait until there are robot judges using artificial intelligence. If you reduced the facts in this Syrian affair (both the alleged chemical attack and the bombing by the US, UK and France) to a set of logical statements and then applied the rule of logic you will not get justification for the actions of the West. No doubt robot judges will not be allowed internationally for this reason. The rich will insist on trial by jury of their peers.
Lavrov is the guy who pushed a conspiracy theory about Germany covering up a migrant rape, which was revealed to be a hoax and who has provided a smokescreen for numerous crimes by the Putin regime. He's the last person you should quote as the speaker of truth.

You people act like only the U.S. has that foreign policy albatross around the neck, which is why you feel it's such a great move when everything is down to he said, she said, but it just shows your historical ignorance and lack of perspective.

For Christ's sake Sputnik and their affiliates were calling the White Helmets terrorists and women and children crisis actors. UN Investigators (one of whom was involved investigating the WMD claims in Iraq by the way) have at least determined that many past reported chemical attacks by the Syrian government were legitimate. Example: Report (pg 85 if you don't want the whole thing)

Quote:
Note: Facts are statements given weighting factors. All sides agree facts are given 100% weight. Opinion by media given 5% or perhaps 0%. What does a video made by terrorists get?
Not everyone with brown skin, wielding an AK-47 and fighting an oppressive government during wartime is a terrorist . Don't buy into that lame line.
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Old 18th April 2018, 08:30 AM   #255
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They started discussing Syria on that BBC2 Daily Politics TV show today. The journalist piped up that "the balance of probability is that Assad did it" and then the Chairman of the Labour Party said that you have to assume that Assad did it. It's not profound enough. I don't regard that as investigating reporting, or getting it right. It should be censored, like some of my posts are wrongly censored on this forum.
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Old 18th April 2018, 08:36 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Not everyone with brown skin, wielding an AK-47 and fighting an oppressive government during wartime is a terrorist . Don't buy into that lame line.
Well what about Isis and Al Nusra and the Army of Islam then? Do you support those people roaming the streets of London and Paris and Moscow with chemical weapons as well. There are no Westminster style democracies in Arab countries, not even in Egypt, and no such democracy would emerge if Assad had to go. It never happened in Libya, despite David Cameron's empty promises.
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Old 18th April 2018, 10:00 PM   #257
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[quote=quadraginta;12261918]
Originally Posted by Michel H View Post


Yeah, well, they didn't do all that good of a job of destroying those earlier weapons.
To be fair though, the United States is still destroying chemical weapons it manufactured for WW1.
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Old 19th April 2018, 03:14 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Lavrov is the guy who pushed a conspiracy theory about Germany covering up a migrant rape, which was revealed to be a hoax and who has provided a smokescreen for numerous crimes by the Putin regime. He's the last person you should quote as the speaker of truth.

You people act like only the U.S. has that foreign policy albatross around the neck, which is why you feel it's such a great move when everything is down to he said, she said, but it just shows your historical ignorance and lack of perspective.

For Christ's sake Sputnik and their affiliates were calling the White Helmets terrorists and women and children crisis actors. UN Investigators (one of whom was involved investigating the WMD claims in Iraq by the way) have at least determined that many past reported chemical attacks by the Syrian government were legitimate. Example: Report (pg 85 if you don't want the whole thing)



Not everyone with brown skin, wielding an AK-47 and fighting an oppressive government during wartime is a terrorist . Don't buy into that lame line.

So I must discard everything Lavrov says as false?

I asked a pointed loaded question. You gave a knee-jerk assumptive answer. It is the age-old question of who is a terrorist and who is a freedom fighter. And sometimes the terrorist/freedom fighter just wants to take power - regime change without policy change.

What relevance is an AK-47 and brown skin to a general statement? I am not sure why you saw the need to put that in.

Historically, one of the most effective weapons in a movement wanting to overthrow a government is propaganda. And even in movements wanting policy change as well, not forgetting movements that want no change.

You are also making assumptions about my historical knowledge and lack of perspective. It is probably much better than yours, in addition to being well-rounded and unbiased.
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Old 19th April 2018, 03:26 AM   #259
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[quote=Reactor drone;12263470]
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post

To be fair though, the United States is still destroying chemical weapons it manufactured for WW1.

Yes. The methods of destruction also leave some room for improvement. I think they put a lot into ships and sank them if my memory serves me. Ah, yes. The article discusses disposal of remaining stock.

Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...eapons_program
From 1967 to 1970 in Operation CHASE, the U.S. disposed of chemical weapons by sinking ships laden with the weapons in the deep Atlantic.

Which raise the question. Is bombing a chemical weapons facility an acceptable way of disposing of the chemical weapons, or does it pollute the environment? Could large numbers of people have been gassed?
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Old 19th April 2018, 05:08 AM   #260
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Who Is Stalling The OPCW Investigation In Douma?
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Old 19th April 2018, 08:40 AM   #261
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Roger Waters denounces the British propaganda tool "White Helmets" live on stage after the network behind them tried to recruit him several times to spread their "bomb Syria" message. Hats off!

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 19th April 2018, 09:58 AM   #262
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Syria war: The online activists pushing conspiracy theories

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The activists call themselves "anti-war", but as they generally back the Syrian government's military operations against rebel forces seeking to overthrow Mr Assad and Russian air strikes carried out in support, it might be more accurate to describe them as "anti-Western intervention" or "pro-Syrian government".

According to their narrative, international media organisations across the political spectrum, along with human rights organisations, are somehow covertly aligned with Western governments, Saudi Arabia, the Islamic State group and al-Qaeda and taking part in a secretive plot to take over Syria.
Quote:
In addition to pictures of herself, Sarah Abdallah tweets constant pro-Russia and pro-Assad messages, with a dollop of retweeting mostly aimed at attacking Barack Obama, other US Democrats and Saudi Arabia.

In her Twitter profile she describes herself as an "Independent Lebanese geopolitical commentator" but she has almost no online presence or published stories or writing away from social media platforms. A personal blog linked to by her account has no posts.

....

In several pictures posted by Sarah Abdallah, items in the background - such as the house in this picture - are common to North America, rather than Lebanon
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Old 19th April 2018, 10:01 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
So I must discard everything Lavrov says as false?

I asked a pointed loaded question. You gave a knee-jerk assumptive answer. It is the age-old question of who is a terrorist and who is a freedom fighter. And sometimes the terrorist/freedom fighter just wants to take power - regime change without policy change.

What relevance is an AK-47 and brown skin to a general statement? I am not sure why you saw the need to put that in.

Historically, one of the most effective weapons in a movement wanting to overthrow a government is propaganda. And even in movements wanting policy change as well, not forgetting movements that want no change.

You are also making assumptions about my historical knowledge and lack of perspective. It is probably much better than yours, in addition to being well-rounded and unbiased.

Don't assue everything Lavrov says is a lie. If the truth is convenient, I'm sure he'd say that.
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Old 19th April 2018, 10:50 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Roger Waters denounces the British propaganda tool "White Helmets" live on stage after the network behind them tried to recruit him several times to spread their "bomb Syria" message. Hats off!

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


What of it?

He's fallen for the Russian scam as well.
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Old 19th April 2018, 10:58 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
What of it?

He's fallen for the Russian scam as well.

Yeah, we know, like all your friends in the pub.
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Old 19th April 2018, 11:22 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Re Sarah Abdallsh: I see the Russian are using one of the oldest tricks in the world:use a pretty face to sell a bunch of BS.
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Old 19th April 2018, 11:49 AM   #267
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It's just one parade of Martin Chulovs, Luke Hardings, Charles Listers, Eliott Higgins', Julian Röpckes, Claus Klebers against Sarah Abdallahs (I didn't click on the silly BBC propaganda and don't think I heard her name before), Eva Bartletts, Vanessa Beeleys, Partisangirls, Karin Leukefelds, Valentina Lisitsas and Childlike Empresses. So you can as well give up. Too ugly to rule the planet.
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Old 19th April 2018, 02:18 PM   #268
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Well at least Syria is in a better condition than Venezuela
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Old 19th April 2018, 11:01 PM   #269
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[quote=PartSkeptic;12263585]
Originally Posted by Reactor drone View Post


Yes. The methods of destruction also leave some room for improvement. I think they put a lot into ships and sank them if my memory serves me. Ah, yes. The article discusses disposal of remaining stock.




Which raise the question. Is bombing a chemical weapons facility an acceptable way of disposing of the chemical weapons, or does it pollute the environment? Could large numbers of people have been gassed?
No. It is not an acceptable way of destroying a suspected chemical weapons facility unless you are willing to write off potentially massive civilian causalities and poisoning the environment as unfortunate but necessary collateral damage. I think the willingness of the USA, UK, and France to destroy the facilities as completely as they did indicates knowledge that those facilities were not actually places where chemical weapons were manufactured or stored.
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Old 20th April 2018, 02:32 AM   #270
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There was a debate in the House of Lords yesterday about National Security, which included Syria. It started off with some silly women saying as usual that Britain should have gone to war over that chemical attack in Damascus a few years ago. Then one woman said Assad should be put before the International Criminal Court in the Hague, without mentioning that Isis has been proven to have made chemical attacks. Some say that chemical nerve agent a few years ago came form Turkey, or Libya.

Another male peer then said that Russia was bust, which I find hard to believe with the raw commodities at its disposal, even though they, like everybody else don't know much about abstract economics . He then said that Corbyn was supposed to be a pacifist, and we should decide whose side we are on.

Another Labour peer then said that Assad did that recent so-called chemical attack in Douma without presenting any firm evidence to back it up. There are grave doubts about it.

Admiral West then spoke some sense, who I think used to be a Labour peer.

There was an interesting speech by a Labour peer, whose name I should have noted, who mentioned that he had been recently invited to the north of Syria by the Kurds which he reached by going to Baghdad first. He then said we should face the reality that the Shia are now in control of Iraq and that Turkey is not a reliable ally, and that Assad and the Russians had won in Syria.

One woman said we should expect the unexpected, which was probably the most sensible thing said.
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Old 20th April 2018, 03:06 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
Henri watched some TV....
As usual, you crystalise the most involved events into shiny diamonds of insight.....................................
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Old 20th April 2018, 05:10 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
I think the willingness of the USA, UK, and France to destroy the facilities as completely as they did indicates knowledge that those facilities were not actually places where chemical weapons were manufactured or stored.

Yes, this is certainly the case. I posted the OPCW report from just last month about their second visit to the Barzah facility, finding nothing, to prove this.
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Old 20th April 2018, 08:17 AM   #273
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I agree with Childlike Empress.There are grave doubts about these so-called chemical attacks in Syria, which is dangerous because it can lead to war:

https://www.infowars.com/pentagon-co...russia-anyway/

Quote:
However, there was a slight problem in the US narrative when it came to actual facts. Responding to a comment request from RT, the Pentagon said it still has no verifiable evidence that a chemical attack actually took place in Ghouta.

“We are looking for evidence,” a Pentagon spokesperson said in a statement to RT while acknowledging that the information it has so far comes solely from “the groups on the ground,” including the notorious White Helmets. This did not stop Pentagon from adding the following:

“We cannot confirm specific numbers or incidents, but we can see Russia has failed to follow through on delivering regime compliance,” the statement said, adding a very convincing mention of “reports that brutal regime violence has continued.”

Such sweeping accusations seem to have become a new norm for the US officials. In late January, US State Secretary Rex Tillerson blamed Russia for basically all chemical incidents that took place in Syria over its support of the Syrian government, which Washington considers to be the sole side responsible for such incidents.

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 20th April 2018 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 20th April 2018, 09:35 AM   #274
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I’ll give the Russians credit where credit is due: they are nothing if not persistent in their propaganda efforts. Smart move on their part, since they’ve spent an entire century honing this dark art. They know what they’re good at.
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Old 20th April 2018, 09:40 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I agree with Childlike Empress.There are grave doubts about these so-called chemical attacks in Syria, which is dangerous because it can lead to war:

https://www.infowars.com/pentagon-co...russia-anyway/
Henri,

Infowars is utterly crackpot. Alex Jones is a seriously unpleasant individual who (in his lost custody battle) attempted to claim that his spittle-flecked promotion of conspiracy theories was just an act.
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Old 20th April 2018, 10:26 AM   #276
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Someone used infowars as a reliable source of information?

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Old 20th April 2018, 12:04 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I agree with Childlike Empress.There are grave doubts about these so-called chemical attacks in Syria, which is dangerous because it can lead to war:

https://www.infowars.com/pentagon-co...russia-anyway/
Alright Henri you've lost it.
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Old 20th April 2018, 12:27 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
I’ll give the Russians credit where credit is due: they are nothing if not persistent in their propaganda efforts. Smart move on their part, since they’ve spent an entire century honing this dark art. They know what they’re good at.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The Russians suck at propaganda, and the Syrians don't even try. Not in their nature. Goebbels always envied Bernays and cohorts - that's where the talent was and is.
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Old 20th April 2018, 01:00 PM   #279
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No propaganda is useless provided that there is a sufficiently large base that is willing to believe it.
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Old 20th April 2018, 01:29 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
No propaganda is useless provided that there is a sufficiently large base that is willing to believe it.
Face it, even Alex Jones has his uses
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