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17th April 2018, 04:58 AM | #241 |
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Do you think the West might be making now a monumental mistake with respect to Syria and Bashar al-Assad, similar to what they did in 2003, when they (though without France then) invaded Iraq, officially to rid it of chemical weapons, which actually were never found?
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17th April 2018, 05:28 AM | #242 |
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I don't think "mistake" is the correct word. I and another user of this forum have started a wiki about Syria more than five years ago, because on the wikipedia you will always find controversial topics like this "streamlined" so that they fit the "official narrative", ending up with ridiculous stuff like your quote about "The Siege of Ghouta isolating 400,000 people in a 100 square kilometre area". Imagine a couple of thousand Hell's Angels taking over a US city. In wikipedia you would in analogy read how the US regime sieged that city and isolated 400,000 people. Anyway, on my userpage on our wiki I have collected some texts and videos I think are essential for understanding what has been going on. You are very welcome to take a look here. |
17th April 2018, 07:07 AM | #243 |
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Wasn't it nuclear weapons which were never found? "The West" knew perfectly well that Saddam had chemical weapons. They helped him produce and deploy them against the Iranians. As well as standing by without much comment when he used them against his own people (Who just happened to be Kurds sitting on a lot of oil.). They also found them after the invasion. In fact, if I am not mistaken they are still contending with the decontamination of some of the storage sites which they found. |
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17th April 2018, 08:32 AM | #244 |
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I can perhaps quote wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_i...aulty_evidence ):
Quote:
Quote:
There was some emphasis on alleged biological weapons before the 2003 invasion, as you can see from this February 2003 speech of Colin Powell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9JM_uSG5Aw When I was writing about "chemical weapons", I was speaking loosely and was not distinguishing between chemical and biological. If your story of chemical stockpiles found in Iraq after the invasion is accurate, I invite you to back it up with a link. |
17th April 2018, 09:14 AM | #245 |
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Can you explain why the race or supposed religion of Colin Powell
Can you explain why gender or sexual orientation is important here? I guess that you are a straight male, but that doesn't mean that I am a drooling conspiracy theorist with a nice sideline in homophobia, misogyny, racism and antisemitism. You brought up 9/11. Maybe someone who worked for the Syrian government and interviewed by Russian media would be unlikely to admit to manufacturing chemical weapons... almost like a straightforward and easy to understand conspiracy. |
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17th April 2018, 09:23 AM | #246 |
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I have looked at your wiki page, Empress, the cartoon is funny and, I am afraid, fairly lucid. So you are saying there was actually never a real siege of Ghouta by Assad. You may be right, though CNN said, on March 1, 2018:
Quote:
Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_...es_allegations ) says:
Quote:
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17th April 2018, 10:11 AM | #247 |
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No, I can't. Wikipedia is a great innovation of the internet, the collective mind, and I have contributed to it very early on, starting the articles about my home town, my school, my university etc. But the more controversial a topic is, the more it is in the nature of wikipedia's functionality that the "common wisdom" prevails over alternative views, and alternative views that are not covered in mainstream media are outright oppressed. That's why there are countless wikis on special topics trying to cover more than that "common wisdom". Our "mission statement" is outlined here, and it has proven relevant ever since we wrote it in 2012. |
17th April 2018, 10:25 AM | #248 |
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My, Putin's little helpers are showing up....
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17th April 2018, 04:18 PM | #249 |
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[quote=Michel H;12261243]
Originally Posted by Michel H
Yeah, well, they didn't do all that good of a job of destroying those earlier weapons.
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17th April 2018, 05:31 PM | #250 |
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Yes, I see what you mean now, this New York Times article seems serious.
But these old chemical weapons were no longer fully operational:
Quote:
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17th April 2018, 08:46 PM | #251 |
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Whatever you may think of U.S. intervention in Syria (I'm very uneasy about this as well), it's unacceptable to allow Assad and his backers to control the narrative, that's why it's important to be skeptical of reports from Russian media for instance framing the recent events in Eastern Ghouta as a "liberation" as if Russian and Syrian forces weren't smashing the area to bits, civilians and fighters alike, before that.
Familiarize yourself with the conspiracy theories that have spread through the past few years that have vilified first responders and even hospital workers who've called out government crimes. And they are very quick to pull the Iraq card whenever convenient in order to stymie honest discussion. |
17th April 2018, 11:05 PM | #252 |
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The Iraqi card is needed counter the verdict of Western politicians that "it was highly likely Syria or Russia". Sergei Lavrov on BBC's Hardtalk pointed this out that the phrase is used to justify "first the punishment, then the verdict" logic being used. He also quoted a Roman proverb saying who benefits? This is not legal. What is happening to the rule of law? Senator Richard Black from Virginia questions whether an attack occurred - https://www.globalresearch.ca/virgin...e-flag/5636194 In another interview he said that as a lawyer, he always asked for motive when there was a crime. I represented myself in a legal matter and knew the law and procedure backwards. Yet the Judge ignored my written submission (did not read) on the basis that it was "highly likely" I was ignorant of the law and just a vexatious litigant. And that she had the "power" to make any decision no matter how ridiculous. I laid a complaint about her and she and I will appear before the Judicial Services Committee. Judges and lawyers protect their own so I am not hopeful. I cannot wait until there are robot judges using artificial intelligence. If you reduced the facts in this Syrian affair (both the alleged chemical attack and the bombing by the US, UK and France) to a set of logical statements and then applied the rule of logic you will not get justification for the actions of the West. No doubt robot judges will not be allowed internationally for this reason. The rich will insist on trial by jury of their peers. Note: Facts are statements given weighting factors. All sides agree facts are given 100% weight. Opinion by media given 5% or perhaps 0%. What does a video made by terrorists get? |
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17th April 2018, 11:28 PM | #253 |
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Medics treating the victims of the attack say they have been subjected to extreme intimidation by the Assad regime
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uma-gas-attack |
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18th April 2018, 12:21 AM | #254 |
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Lavrov is the guy who pushed a conspiracy theory about Germany covering up a migrant rape, which was revealed to be a hoax and who has provided a smokescreen for numerous crimes by the Putin regime. He's the last person you should quote as the speaker of truth.
You people act like only the U.S. has that foreign policy albatross around the neck, which is why you feel it's such a great move when everything is down to he said, she said, but it just shows your historical ignorance and lack of perspective. For Christ's sake Sputnik and their affiliates were calling the White Helmets terrorists and women and children crisis actors. UN Investigators (one of whom was involved investigating the WMD claims in Iraq by the way) have at least determined that many past reported chemical attacks by the Syrian government were legitimate. Example: Report (pg 85 if you don't want the whole thing)
Quote:
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18th April 2018, 08:30 AM | #255 |
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They started discussing Syria on that BBC2 Daily Politics TV show today. The journalist piped up that "the balance of probability is that Assad did it" and then the Chairman of the Labour Party said that you have to assume that Assad did it. It's not profound enough. I don't regard that as investigating reporting, or getting it right. It should be censored, like some of my posts are wrongly censored on this forum.
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18th April 2018, 08:36 AM | #256 |
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Well what about Isis and Al Nusra and the Army of Islam then? Do you support those people roaming the streets of London and Paris and Moscow with chemical weapons as well. There are no Westminster style democracies in Arab countries, not even in Egypt, and no such democracy would emerge if Assad had to go. It never happened in Libya, despite David Cameron's empty promises.
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18th April 2018, 10:00 PM | #257 |
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19th April 2018, 03:14 AM | #258 |
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So I must discard everything Lavrov says as false? I asked a pointed loaded question. You gave a knee-jerk assumptive answer. It is the age-old question of who is a terrorist and who is a freedom fighter. And sometimes the terrorist/freedom fighter just wants to take power - regime change without policy change. What relevance is an AK-47 and brown skin to a general statement? I am not sure why you saw the need to put that in. Historically, one of the most effective weapons in a movement wanting to overthrow a government is propaganda. And even in movements wanting policy change as well, not forgetting movements that want no change. You are also making assumptions about my historical knowledge and lack of perspective. It is probably much better than yours, in addition to being well-rounded and unbiased. |
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19th April 2018, 03:26 AM | #259 |
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[quote=Reactor drone;12263470]
Yes. The methods of destruction also leave some room for improvement. I think they put a lot into ships and sank them if my memory serves me. Ah, yes. The article discusses disposal of remaining stock.
Quote:
Which raise the question. Is bombing a chemical weapons facility an acceptable way of disposing of the chemical weapons, or does it pollute the environment? Could large numbers of people have been gassed? |
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19th April 2018, 05:08 AM | #260 |
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19th April 2018, 08:40 AM | #261 | |||
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Roger Waters denounces the British propaganda tool "White Helmets" live on stage after the network behind them tried to recruit him several times to spread their "bomb Syria" message. Hats off!
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19th April 2018, 09:58 AM | #262 |
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19th April 2018, 10:01 AM | #263 |
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19th April 2018, 10:50 AM | #264 |
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19th April 2018, 10:58 AM | #265 |
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19th April 2018, 11:22 AM | #266 |
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19th April 2018, 11:49 AM | #267 |
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It's just one parade of Martin Chulovs, Luke Hardings, Charles Listers, Eliott Higgins', Julian Röpckes, Claus Klebers against Sarah Abdallahs (I didn't click on the silly BBC propaganda and don't think I heard her name before), Eva Bartletts, Vanessa Beeleys, Partisangirls, Karin Leukefelds, Valentina Lisitsas and Childlike Empresses. So you can as well give up. Too ugly to rule the planet.
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19th April 2018, 02:18 PM | #268 |
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Well at least Syria is in a better condition than Venezuela
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19th April 2018, 11:01 PM | #269 |
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[quote=PartSkeptic;12263585]
No. It is not an acceptable way of destroying a suspected chemical weapons facility unless you are willing to write off potentially massive civilian causalities and poisoning the environment as unfortunate but necessary collateral damage. I think the willingness of the USA, UK, and France to destroy the facilities as completely as they did indicates knowledge that those facilities were not actually places where chemical weapons were manufactured or stored.
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20th April 2018, 02:32 AM | #270 |
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There was a debate in the House of Lords yesterday about National Security, which included Syria. It started off with some silly women saying as usual that Britain should have gone to war over that chemical attack in Damascus a few years ago. Then one woman said Assad should be put before the International Criminal Court in the Hague, without mentioning that Isis has been proven to have made chemical attacks. Some say that chemical nerve agent a few years ago came form Turkey, or Libya.
Another male peer then said that Russia was bust, which I find hard to believe with the raw commodities at its disposal, even though they, like everybody else don't know much about abstract economics . He then said that Corbyn was supposed to be a pacifist, and we should decide whose side we are on. Another Labour peer then said that Assad did that recent so-called chemical attack in Douma without presenting any firm evidence to back it up. There are grave doubts about it. Admiral West then spoke some sense, who I think used to be a Labour peer. There was an interesting speech by a Labour peer, whose name I should have noted, who mentioned that he had been recently invited to the north of Syria by the Kurds which he reached by going to Baghdad first. He then said we should face the reality that the Shia are now in control of Iraq and that Turkey is not a reliable ally, and that Assad and the Russians had won in Syria. One woman said we should expect the unexpected, which was probably the most sensible thing said. |
20th April 2018, 03:06 AM | #271 |
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20th April 2018, 05:10 AM | #272 |
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20th April 2018, 08:17 AM | #273 |
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I agree with Childlike Empress.There are grave doubts about these so-called chemical attacks in Syria, which is dangerous because it can lead to war:
https://www.infowars.com/pentagon-co...russia-anyway/
Quote:
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20th April 2018, 09:35 AM | #274 |
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I’ll give the Russians credit where credit is due: they are nothing if not persistent in their propaganda efforts. Smart move on their part, since they’ve spent an entire century honing this dark art. They know what they’re good at.
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20th April 2018, 09:40 AM | #275 |
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20th April 2018, 10:26 AM | #276 |
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Someone used infowars as a reliable source of information?
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20th April 2018, 12:04 PM | #277 |
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20th April 2018, 12:27 PM | #278 |
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20th April 2018, 01:00 PM | #279 |
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No propaganda is useless provided that there is a sufficiently large base that is willing to believe it.
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20th April 2018, 01:29 PM | #280 |
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