|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
![]() |
#41 |
Hyperthetical
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 13,489
|
I have to admit a bit of discomfort of my own with those words. Not because I believe man is in essence sinful and unworthy, but because I believe man is in essence human. Knowledge, wealth, and freedom are all wonderful and desirable things. But equating their possession to loftiness seems to be a perpetual mistake. |
__________________
A zømbie once bit my sister... |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#42 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
|
|
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#43 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 56,741
|
It's making little sense to you because you seem to have already decided what your opinion about it is. You have - appear to have - unilaterally decided that all of Christianity follows Calvin's doctrine of Total Depravity, despite the actual facts of the matter.
But the point that you're missing is that even in Calvinism, the point is to rise above that depravity, and to take and experience joy in doing so. In the happy-clappy church I have experience in, even the existence of depravity isn't something that is taken as a negative thing. On the contrary, it gives us the opportunity to be better than Adam and Eve were. That's, like, the entire point of Jesus. It's the point of baptism and the Baptist religions. It doesn't make sense to you because you seem to be focused on the depravity, rather than on the salvation from depravity, which is where most churches put the emphasis. Except for Calvinism, that is. |
__________________
"This quote was taken out of context." - Randall Munroe |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#44 |
الشيطان الأبيض
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 7,205
|
It can easily look from the outside like the emphasis isn't where insiders think it is. But I think that's because of the nature of the drama of juxtapositions. Even positive scenes in TV & movies seem to be the most powerful when they're also reminders or reflections of negative ones from before. Showing a guy get a new job for more money is nice, but doesn't become a really big deal emotionally unless the rest of the movie until then in horribly deep poverty and homelessness, with a kid to take care of, alone after his wife left him over his financial problems. An army arriving at their neighbors' castle to break the siege and save them is nice, but is greatly enhanced if they just went through a similar war in their own country, where they could have stayed and focused on trying to recover (and the music when they begin their charge is a reminder of that), but which they left behind to be here helping their neighbors instead. A couple of siblings reuniting after not seeing each other for a few years is nice, but becomes a lot more if you also know that, since the last time they saw each other, most of their family has been killed, the survivors have scattered and don't know where each other are or that they're alive at all, their home and their neighbors' homes have been stolen or burned, and they've been imprisoned and abused, but they're both finally in the process of separately improving their own lives again. Watching someone with a magic power do his most impressive feat so far is nice, but becomes a totally different kind of scene if the way he does it is also tied to his psychological state, his process of healing from an abusive past, and his discovery that his power works better in his new mindset than it did in the old one so this feat he's doing now demonstrates how far he's come emotionally.
If you try to describe that kind of scene that's happy because of the sadness, it seems like most of the time & effort in the description must fall on the sad side, even though the sadness's only relevance is its magnification of the happy side. Interestingly, though, all of the examples I can think of that have work for me in drama have been about how good or bad the characters' circumstances were, not how good or bad they themselves were... which could bust the whole analogy. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#45 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
|
Huh?
What I originally wrote was:
Quote:
Quote:
We were created perfect but sinned and so were unworthy of salvation. God sacrificed his own son for our sins, so he could bring himself to forgive us if we believed in his son. Did I get that right? And you cannot see why I have trouble with the idea I posted originally?
Quote:
|
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#46 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
|
|
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#47 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 56,741
|
No.
Well... no. Let me elaborate. I can see that you are having trouble with it. I cannot see why you are having trouble with it, when I have already pointed out that your idea about what the "very essence of Christianity" is, is wrong. And this is what is frustrating me about our exchange. The two-sentence "essence" that you have outlined is correct, in an extremely naive and simplistic sense. But you have avoided acknowledging - in fact, you have explicitly denied - that there can possibly be any kind of nuance. Especially since, as I have pointed out, you seem to be focussing entirely on the Calvinistic idea of Total Depravity - which is not a mainstream doctrine in any other denomination. Why not? Well, because there's lots of different kinds of Christianity. Some of them do indeed put a lot of emphasis on the idea of being unworthy - and I would point out that Amazing Grace is a Scottish hymn, and what is one of the more common sects in Scotland? That's right, Calvinism. That hymn contains close to the entire TULIP. And yet people still see it as uplifting and empowering. Can you think why? No, the fundamental message is not the same, and I am giving - trying to give - you a counterexample from direct lived experience. I'll give it another go. In my experience - in the experience that I personally had as a congregant of a pentecostal church - there was very little said at any time about unworthiness. Sure, if you pressed the issue, it was there. You had to have something to be saved from. But the idea that this was a central issue or a fundamental message of the type of religion that this particular church practiced is just plain wrong. Therefore there is at least one church for which this is not the very essence. Your assertion that regardless of the church you can't get away from this "very essence" of Calvinistic depravity is therefore disproved. |
__________________
"This quote was taken out of context." - Randall Munroe |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#48 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 56,741
|
I apologise if it seems like an attack. Like I said, I am finding this exchange quite frustrating.
You have made a claim. I have explained to you why your claim is wrong, using examples drawn from my direct personal lived experience. Yet you cling to your claim and are not acknowledging that I have any kind of point. You are basically telling me that my personal lived experience has no value to you and will not change what to me seems an uninformed opinion. Do you understand why I might have a problem with that? |
__________________
"This quote was taken out of context." - Randall Munroe |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#49 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
|
To say I made a claim is a bit heavy. What I said in the OP was:
Quote:
Sure there may be groups such as you former "happy clappy" church who do not dwell on the being a wretched miserable sinner so much, but underneath it all I maintain, you cannot get away from the universal message of Christianity. I did not tell you that your "personal lived experience has no value". In fact I welcomed and thanked you for your input. Now if we can get back to the discussion, (and if I may digress a little), you mention that having the baptism by fire thing, gave the baptized the ability to speak in and understand talking in tongues, (if I recall correctly). Did you experience this? If so please tell us about it. |
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#50 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 56,741
|
What you said was
(highlighting mine) which means that ALL churches can't get away from the original premise. You said - you are saying: It doesn't matter what church you're in - they're all the same. You cannot get away from the "universal message" of Christianity, which is Calvinistic Total Depravity. I gave you an example of a church that gets away from that. You did, and then you ignored and dismissed that input, and are continuing to do so. Forgive me if it seems like your welcome and thanks was insincere. Love to. Yes I did. I came up from the water speaking in tongues. It was quite an odd experience, and I don't know if I can describe it such that someone who has never experienced that sort of thing can really understand it. Let me try an analogy and see how well it fits. I've never really been to many concerts or raves, but it seems to me that there's a vibe that people get into where they're all really into the music and the mood. Everyone's dancing, everyone's feeling the music and it seems like everyone is in some sense on the same level - feeling the same thing. You're not consciously deciding just to go along with what everyone else is doing, but everyone's doing the thing and you're one of them. And there's this shared vibe that everyone's into. I think it might be a bit like that. In the church it was described by saying "The holy spirit has come upon the congregation". There's absolutely a feeling - a vibe - and everyone's suddenly on the same level and feeling the same thing. I want to be very clear that there really is something going on. It's not just people faking it for effect. I remain convinced that it's a form of self- or group-hypnosis where what you're doing is not entirely under your conscious control. After all, the alternative explanation is that there really is a "holy spirit" of some kind descending on the congregation. As you say, it's a bit of a digression from the original issue though. ![]() |
__________________
"This quote was taken out of context." - Randall Munroe |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#51 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
|
Sorry if you got the impression I was dismissing your input, it was not my intention. At the risk of labouring the point I was just pointing out, (as I said), that the original premise of Christianity, (in all its colours), is the same. That to one side however, thanks for your input into the talking in tongues phenomenon. I was wondering when you are doing it if you have an idea what you are saying in this alternative language, and can you decipher what others are saying when they are thus possessed, so to speak? So you really thought you were experiencing something real when the holy spirit came upon the congregation and everybody felt it? There was nobody who said afterwards - "Hey what were you guys up to?" I went to a Billy Graham meeting many years ago where he, and his helpers, really got the mob going. At the end of the performance quite a few went down the front and got anointed or whatever else they did to them. I suppose those felt some "holy spirit" thing that motivated them, but the majority did not - certainly not my friends and I. We came to scoff but didn't stay to pray. What I am drawing attention to here is there was no blanket, universal, experience by all the group, as distinct from your observation of your congregation. The format of the meeting was some kind of standard approach I think as I have seen it done since a number of times. All the woes of the World are laid out in detail so there just seems to be no hope - then Jesus is introduced as the answer. Hallelujah! |
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#52 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 56,741
|
I accept your apology and happily move on from this unfortunate incident.
Nope. the idea is that you are speaking in the language of the angels or something. Interpretation of tongues is a separate gift - 1 Corinthians 12:10 and 12:30. Actually most of 1 Corinthians 12 is about this idea. There are lots of different kinds of gift - wisdom, knowledge, prophecy, healing, speaking tongues, interpreting tongues, etc. But they're all from the same Holy Spirit. Allow me to recount an anecdote that I have a pretty good memory of. It was during a worship service, and "the Holy Spirit had descended on the congregation". Hopefully you know what I mean by that now. At one point a guy stood up and shouted "BALLABALLAAHSHALALLABBLBLLAAALALAAA!!!!" (it's always Ls, Bs and SHs, for some reason). There was a silence for a moment, and the pastor asked "Uh, does anyone have an interpretation?" There was a bit of an uncomfortable shuffling, and then someone said "For uhh.. God love the world so he... uhh... gave us his son?" I think that was the first moment I started to experience genuine doubt. Nope. Well... not to me, anyway. Anybody who was baptised in the holy spirit was a part of it, and those who weren't were hoping to be. I can't guarantee that there was no-one up the back wondering what the hell was going on, but I didn't encounter anyone like that. Well obviously. You weren't there as part of the service, you were there to scoff. Why were you there to scoff, by the way? Why was that an intended goal? Did you hope to actually speak to anyone, or was it just for the lulz? Laughing at all the idiots doing stupid things? Why would you do that? Anyway, just because they didn't go down the front for a personal ministration doesn't mean that they weren't feeling it. In my experience (I attended only a couple of revivals like that, and none with anyone particularly famous outside the revival circuit. Remind me later to tell you that story too) the only people who actually go up for personal ministration are those who have a particular reason for doing so. They want a healing, for themselves or for a relative or friend, they want a special prayer for a particular purpose, or something else. It would only ever be a small number of people, because getting a personal ministration wasn't something that you did for no purpose. I did it once, and yes, I fell over. Yep. This was pretty much my point earlier - that you can't say that Calvinistic depravity was a blanket, universal experience, any more than you can say that any other doctrine or practice was a blanket, universal experience. This was also the method of proselytisation that was taught to me. When you wanted to convert someone, you started by telling your own personal story about how you were into drugs and sex and rock-and-roll or whatever, and your life was ****, but then along came Jesus to make it all better. Like I said, you have to have something to be saved from. But the emphasis is on "life is great with Jesus" and not "life is awful without Jesus". You (and Calvin) emphasised the latter while my church emphasised the former. |
__________________
"This quote was taken out of context." - Randall Munroe |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#53 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
|
Do you think the guy who gave that interpretation was really genuine?
Quote:
I was quite young at the time, (21 - 22), but had already come to the realization that religion caused a lot of harm. Apart from the broader issues having been discussed most extensively on this forum, I referred back to my own childhood and the pain I experienced before letting go of belief in God. Also I could see the problems my brothers faith was causing in my family. His religious convictions drove a wedge between him and our parents. So even back then I was anti-theism. Going to see Billy Graham was to some extent just a bit of a lark I suppose, but I and my mates, were interested to see the performance, and see what made this guy so successful. We were infiltrating the enemy to find out his tricks.
Quote:
So you actually fell over! Do you have and explanation for this and what did it feel like?
Quote:
Lets not get into that again. |
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#54 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 56,741
|
I think that the person (a woman, from memory) who gave the interpretation believed that they were genuine.
Why? Are you not aware that I am against mocking religion in general? Well that's a little bit different from your previous stated purpose of going there in order to scoff. Maybe. It's another manifestation of exactly the same thing. You don't consciously choose to do it in order to fit in. I've never been hyponotised, but I expect that it's essentially the same. You do the thing because it never occurs to you to not do the thing. I agree, even though it is the stated topic of the thread. We've moved quite a long way away from "Christianity and Self Esteem" and more into "arthwollipot tells Thor about his religious experiences". It's been a while since anyone else even posted here. I'm more than willing to answer questions, but let's let someone else get a word in. |
__________________
"This quote was taken out of context." - Randall Munroe |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#55 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
|
I was trying to introduce a touch of lightheartedness into the the exchange with the expression by one Oliver Goldsmith I believe:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Nothing stopping others from putting an oar in here and just steering this back away from arthwollipot's religious experiences, I wonder about the faith of the mega evangelists. Daniel Dennett has had a lot to say about clergymen who've lost their faith and even created a site for them to meet in comfort. I've never heard of one of the big time evangelists coming out as a non believer however and wonder if anyone else here has. It is my suspicion that many of these guys don't have any faith to begin with and are just in it for the money. Those prosperity guys who preach "God want's you to be rich and the way to get there is to give me money first", at the top of the pile. If what I suspect is true I wonder what they think when they look at the guy in the mirror. High self esteem? ![]() |
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#56 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 56,741
|
Fair enough - I did not recognise it as a quote.
I am aware of that. First: there is a substantial difference between drawing attention to absurdity and mocking. Second, I note your use of the word "weapon" as though this is required to be some kind of violent conflict. Yes. I'm not a fan of standup, and comedians like Gervais, Carlin and Izzard annoy the crap out of me, to the point where I will just avoid them completely. Colbert and Connolly do it well. A few others. Not very many. Religion is an easy target, and it seems to me that you can get a bunch of cheap laughs by pandering to atheists. But as I said I'm not a fan of standup. That's an entirely different subject. I am absolutely convinced that at least some of them are completely sincere in their beliefs. I'm sure there are some cynical manipulators, but I don't think it's logically defensible to claim that all of them are like that. On the contrary, those who are sincere in their beliefs are pretty proud of the work that they do for God, and those who aren't are proud of their ability to pull one over on the marks. I think these are the people who have the highest self esteem. They are extremely successful at what they do. |
__________________
"This quote was taken out of context." - Randall Munroe |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#57 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
|
I don't see much difference to be honest and when you refer to expressions like "The pen is mightier than the sword" it sort of diffuses the idea of violent conflict.
Quote:
Quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjvaisJ2eX0 I did not say, incidentally, that all of them are like that, but feel a strong conviction that some are, and given that conviction think they may not grade themselves very highly on a scale of morality. |
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#58 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 56,741
|
Our language is filled with violent idioms - that doesn't mean that we have to use them. Your choice to refer to mockery as a "weapon" is quite interesting to me because it suggests that you naturally see religion as an enemy to be opposed, that you require weapons for the purposes of opposing.
Let me make my views clear: I do not believe that religion is the enemy. I believe that fanaticism is the enemy and while religion engenders one type of fanaticism, the fact that there are religious people who are not fanatics utterly destroys the idea that it is religion itself which must be opposed. By all means take on the religious fanatics, if that is the kind of fanatic you choose to focus your attention on, and use whatever violent metaphors you wish in order to achieve your strategic goals in that area. Meanwhile I will continue to engage in actual dialogue with the non-fanatical religious people that you would brand as an enemy because of what is to me your misdirected animosity. Together we will do our best to temper the extremes of fanaticism, both in the religious and the political arenas. I hope that what I have said above clears it up somewhat. My taste in comedy is a subject for another time. Indeed, nor did I say that all of them are like that. In fact I went out of my way to not say that. But no villain ever thinks themselves to be immoral. Even those who engage in outright cons do so for reasons that they feel makes such behaviour appropriate. And those with genuine religious convictions are utterly convinced that their behaviour is moral in the sight of God. This is the problem with morality, you see. Everyone believes their own behaviour to be moral and others' to be immoral. Even Hitler thought he was doing the right thing. That a majority of others disagreed did nothing to change his own inner sense of morality. Prosperity Gospel preachers are no different. Their own, personal, inner sense of morality supports what they do. We disagree, but that doesn't change how they see it. |
__________________
"This quote was taken out of context." - Randall Munroe |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#59 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
|
What an odd thing to say. I am not suggesting you have to use these expressions but if I want to use them that's OK isn't it?
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#60 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 56,741
|
I disagree, and once again as an example I will bring up Hitler, whose fanaticism was political and not religious.
And I have repeatedly made the comment that I believe that the distinction between the two is spurious. We've been through this before, you and I. After all, it takes two to fight. Insight? You mean reading? Well, see, I read books. And in some of those books, fanatics explain the reasoning and motivation behind their fanaticism. |
__________________
"This quote was taken out of context." - Randall Munroe |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#61 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,663
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#62 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,663
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#63 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,663
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#64 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,663
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#65 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,663
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#66 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,663
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#67 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,663
|
All of us have family members such as you, it doesn't bother me in the least. Even though I want to I can't give them faith, only God can open their eyes. I was once the same way, but I had someone praying for me that I didn't know they were, but I wasn't hostile to things of God. Someone is surely praying for you, what that will accomplish, no one can know.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#68 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,663
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#69 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,663
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#70 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 56,741
|
Thanks for the clarification. I was more referring to Baptism being one of the Catholic Sacraments (the others being Confirmation, the Eucharist, Penance, Extreme Unction, Order and Matrimony) and thus central to the lives and salvation of those of the Catholic faith.
Quote:
|
__________________
"This quote was taken out of context." - Randall Munroe |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#71 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
|
Hello again and welcome to this discussion logger. ![]() No, I am not desperately seeking answers as you suggest, but am genuinely interested in the question. Arth has been good enough to give us his take on it and as you may glean from our exchange, we don't see eye to eye. I am not moved from my opinion that no matter how much you dress it up and how happy clappy your religious gatherings are you, as Christians, have this conviction hanging over your heads, that you are unworthy in your own right, and rely on the sacrifice of Jesus to get you there. |
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#72 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
|
|
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#73 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 4,318
|
|
__________________
"At the Supreme Court level where we work, 90 percent of any decision is emotional. The rational part of us supplies the reasons for supporting our predilections." Justice William O. Douglas "Humans aren't rational creatures but rationalizing creatures." Author Unknown |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#74 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,663
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#75 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,517
|
Interesting that a dictionary extract can encourage laughter logger. The extract did say: ....... having a modest or low view of one's importance. That is the same as having low self esteem is it not? A common tactic this one of posting expressions like: Lol. Oh my. Mercy. Sad. ..... etc. I would classify these as making a comment when you have nothing to say. |
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#76 |
Thinker
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 224
|
Here's an interesting article concerning humility:
"Leaders are more powerful when they’re humble, new research shows" https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...esearch-shows/ |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#77 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,663
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#78 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,663
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#79 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 56,741
|
It's actually kind of not.
Low self-esteem doesn't mean that you have a low view of your importance, it's having a low view of your worth. It doesn't mean that you acknowledge your small place in the greater reality, it means that you feel like you don't belong in the greater reality. It means that you feel like a fraud, that everyone's secretly laughing at you or pitying you. That you have nothing to contribute to society. Speaking as someone who has struggled with low self-esteem all my life, I feel that it's quite different from humility. |
__________________
"This quote was taken out of context." - Randall Munroe |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#80 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 11,089
|
It is far from being a xtian exclusive conceit.
Every military branch in every nation has it's own blunt and simple version of it: If you ain't Airborne (Marine, SEAL, Tanker, Medic etc.) you ain't ****." |
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
|
|