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Tags donald trump , James Comey , lying charges , Michael Flynn

View Poll Results: Who do you believe, Trump or Comey?
Trump, because he is a President of great integrity who would never lie. 4 4.26%
Comey, the recently fired disgruntled employee. 90 95.74%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 19th May 2017, 01:11 PM   #41
ddt
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I knew it would poll heavily in Comey's favor. But still. Wow!

I can't help to wonder who the 1 is?
Tip for next time: you can also set up a poll non-anonymously.
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Old 19th May 2017, 01:22 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I knew it would poll heavily in Comey's favor. But still. Wow!

I can't help to wonder who the 1 is?

...Hello, hello...
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Old 19th May 2017, 02:03 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Tip for next time: you can also set up a poll non-anonymously.
I saw that when I created it, but at the time I thought it would be better if it was anonymous. I was just second guessing. It's my first poll.
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Old 19th May 2017, 02:13 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
...Hello, hello...
Was it you Vixen?
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Old 19th May 2017, 02:16 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Was it you Vixen?
Nah. Only kidding <g d r>.
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Old 19th May 2017, 04:43 PM   #46
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This seems to be a no brainer. Would like to see everyone vote.
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Old 19th May 2017, 05:00 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
This seems to be a no brainer. Would like to see everyone vote.
So far, the poll shows that only one voter has no brain.
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Old 19th May 2017, 11:48 PM   #48
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Has anybody seen these memos? Has Comey himself commented on whether they exist?

Oh, sorry, I thought this was a place for skepticism.
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Old 20th May 2017, 12:53 AM   #49
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Second vote explained.
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Old 20th May 2017, 01:05 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Has anybody seen these memos? Has Comey himself commented on whether they exist?

Oh, sorry, I thought this was a place for skepticism.
Comey is building hype. He's had surrogates and leaking the contents and will testify in public to the full contents next week. This is clearly a strategy to inflict damage.
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Old 20th May 2017, 02:39 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Has anybody seen these memos? Has Comey himself commented on whether they exist?

Oh, sorry, I thought this was a place for skepticism.
Funny, that wasn't the question. It was who do you believe? Comey or the President?

But I think your comment shows a misunderstanding of what is skepticism. Do you believe the memos don't exist? Or that they don't materially say what they have been reported by numerous news outlets? Or do you think it's all 'fake news'?

Ultimately, I expect the memos will be produced. Keep in mind, Comey will be testifying in an open session of Congress after Memorial day. I kind of think that Comey is showing the President another way to control the news cycle. He is releasing a little of the story just tiny bits at a time.
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Old 20th May 2017, 06:45 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Has anybody seen these memos? Has Comey himself commented on whether they exist?

Oh, sorry, I thought this was a place for skepticism.
Why would seeing the memos be enough? I thought you were arguing for skepticism here.

As a True Skeptic™ I need multiple independent pieces of evidence, preferably video and audio recordings from multiple angles with time-stamps clearly documenting that Comey actually wrote said memos as alleged. Anything short of that would simply be insufficient to convince a True Skeptic™ such as myself to come to a reasonable conclusion. As such I must simply accept that i don't know whether or not Comey wrote any notes at all and it's just as likely that Trump is speaking the Truth as Comey is.
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Old 20th May 2017, 06:52 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Has anybody seen these memos? Has Comey himself commented on whether they exist?

Oh, sorry, I thought this was a place for skepticism.
Multiple sources say they have them in hand. Do you suppose the press or FBI senior officials are conspiring to make this up from whole cloth?
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Old 20th May 2017, 06:54 AM   #54
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I think Trump's lying and Comey's telling the truth, but I don't consider these memos as the rocksolid evidence others seem to be. Ckney wrote them, so why are they more reliable as evidence than hearsay? It's still his claim versus Trump's claim of what happened. That Comey committed his version to paper makes it better? One can only tell the truth in writing? If Trump had scrawled a memo, clutching a crayon in his pudgy little paw, of his version of events would his memo be evidence also?
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Old 20th May 2017, 06:55 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Funny, that wasn't the question. It was who do you believe? Comey or the President?

But I think your comment shows a misunderstanding of what is skepticism. Do you believe the memos don't exist? Or that they don't materially say what they have been reported by numerous news outlets? Or do you think it's all 'fake news'?

Ultimately, I expect the memos will be produced. Keep in mind, Comey will be testifying in an open session of Congress after Memorial day. I kind of think that Comey is showing the President another way to control the news cycle. He is releasing a little of the story just tiny bits at a time.
I don't think that Comey has released anything at all. I could be wrong, he could be one of the sources in this story or else directing the sources what to say and when, but there's no evidence this is the case (and Witter certainly denied it).
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Old 20th May 2017, 06:58 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Has anybody seen these memos? Has Comey himself commented on whether they exist?

Oh, sorry, I thought this was a place for skepticism.
You only believe that which you've seen? Are you sure Australia exists? How many protons are there in a carbon atom?
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Old 20th May 2017, 07:11 AM   #57
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Wait, where's the "I believe whatever the Media decides to be the truth"-option?

Actually, I believe neither one. Not even the question itself.
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Old 20th May 2017, 07:15 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I don't think that Comey has released anything at all. I could be wrong, he could be one of the sources in this story or else directing the sources what to say and when, but there's no evidence this is the case (and Witter certainly denied it).
This is vintage Comey. Care to bet? I'll bet you 10K, there are memos. And they materially say what has been reported.
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Old 20th May 2017, 07:43 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think Trump's lying and Comey's telling the truth, but I don't consider these memos as the rocksolid evidence others seem to be. Coney wrote them, so why are they more reliable as evidence than hearsay? It's still his claim versus Trump's claim of what happened. That Comey committed his version to paper makes it better? One can only tell the truth in writing? If Trump had scrawled a memo, clutching a crayon in his pudgy little paw, of his version of events would his memo be evidence also?
It wouldn't be considered hearsay. Comey witnessed a crime. And Comey is a law enforcement officer. We tend to believe their testimony. That he wrote it down while the events were fresh in his mind and that by electronically sending those notes to others he managed to timestamp them.

Thes are notes of what a law enforcement officer witnessed moments before. Lots of people have gone to prison on this.

If the memo was written days or weeks later, it would be easier to believe his memory could just be poor. Also, if transcribing memos was unusual it might carry less weight.

From all reports this is a common practice of Comey's. That makes it more believable. From my perspective, this is simply a question of credibility. If you put other remarks the President has made about why Jim Comey was fired IMV, this is a slam dunk. But hey, maybe that's just me.
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Old 20th May 2017, 07:51 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Has anybody seen these memos? Has Comey himself commented on whether they exist?

Oh, sorry, I thought this was a place for skepticism.
Anyone HERE?

I think we're working under the impression that since there's a congressional investigation based on them that they're real. Will you accept they're real after Comey's sworn testimony I wonder?
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Old 20th May 2017, 08:28 AM   #61
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"James Comey better hope that there are no 'tapes' of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!" Looks like Trump tried to bully Comey because he knows what Comey is going to say. Unfortunately, he did so in the stupidest way possible: If he can't produce tapes refuting what's in the Comey memos, they will be accepted as factual.
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Old 20th May 2017, 08:35 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Has anybody seen these memos? Has Comey himself commented on whether they exist?

Oh, sorry, I thought this was a place for skepticism.
I know, right?

And when Comey shows up for his hearing, and the congress is all like, "'sup?" He'll be like, "My dog ate the memos."
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Old 20th May 2017, 08:40 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
What criteria do we use to decide who is telling the truth? Do previous statements that the President has made that have turned out to be false effect our trust?

Yes. Of course.

If it was just the occasional lie, or even the normal proportion we've grown to expect from Republican politicians it might not have a significant effect, but we are talking about someone who has been shown to lie regularly and compulsively for no good reason, let alone when it is to his advantage.

His lying is so habitual that his supporters even use it as an argument when they are defending what he says. "Oh, you can't believe everything he says. That's just the way he is."

Quote:

Does it make a difference that Comey moments after the alleged incident wrote a mem-con (memo of conversation) detailing the conversation and sent it to his staff and others make his claim more believable?

Yes. 'Work product' notes are routinely admitted as evidence in criminal cases, and given a substantial amount of weight.
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Old 20th May 2017, 08:41 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Yes, people have been convicted largely on those sorts of memos.

As well as having been acquitted.
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Old 20th May 2017, 08:46 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
That gives me some comfort that, out there somewhere, there is an Earth-like planet where the populace finally got rid of their idiocricy and elected, instead, a reasonable, experienced, and sincere President.

We had such a president for the last two terms, and all that it managed to do was enrage the bigots and idiots and bring them crawling out from under their dung heaps.

Of course, it didn't help matters that he was reasonable, experienced, sincere, AND black. That last seems to have been more than a counterbalance sufficient to negate to any other positives.
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Old 20th May 2017, 08:52 AM   #66
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My vote isn't a choice: All politicians (in my opinion) are liars, cheats and frauds on the national level - the individual accountability is so diluted by the time they're on that level that they feel bullet-proof (think Hilary and her private server); and most of the time they do get away with it.

Comey, given the level of this issue, is going to memo or journal the event in such a way as to put himself in the best light (and given the media hostility to Trump, it's working).

So, my vote is: Both men are liars and are telling the incident they want it to have gone down and the truth is somewhere in between (and probably shredded by now).

Whoever put up this poll did not think out all reasonable explanations.
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Old 20th May 2017, 08:52 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Yes. Of course.

If it was just the occasional lie, or even the normal proportion we've grown to expect from Republican politicians it might not have a significant effect, but we are talking about someone who has been shown to lie regularly and compulsively for no good reason, let alone when it is to his advantage.

His lying is so habitual that his supporters even use it as an argument when they are defending what he says. "Oh, you can't believe everything he says. That's just the way he is."
Which IMV is IS INSANE!!!

That argument amounts to 'You have to understand the President. He's always lying, unless when he isn't.' This makes George Orwell's 'doublespeak' seem mild and reasonable.


Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Yes. 'Work product' notes are routinely admitted as evidence in criminal cases, and given a substantial amount of weight.
Unless Comey contradicts what has been reported, I'm convinced the President is guilty of obstruction.

Not that he will be convicted. After all, he's not a Democrat who put his dick in an intern's mouth.
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Old 20th May 2017, 08:52 AM   #68
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Alex Jones of course, just ask the Yogurt company.
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Old 20th May 2017, 09:09 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
"James Comey better hope that there are no 'tapes' of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!" Looks like Trump tried to bully Comey because he knows what Comey is going to say. Unfortunately, he did so in the stupidest way possible: If he can't produce tapes refuting what's in the Comey memos, they will be accepted as factual.
Here's a scenario for the board to chew on:

I just kind of had the thought that Comey might have lied to Trump in the meeting - and that would be okay.

Law Enforcement people can lie to suspects in the course of an investigation.

Pres: Am I under investigation?

FBI: No (A lie, in hopes the Pres/suspect now says something incriminating)

Trump might not be understanding that yet. He thinks that if he gave Comey an order and Comey agreed to obey, then later didn't, then he (Trump) has something on Comey. He thinks if he (Trump) asked a question and Comey's answer was later proven untruthful, then Trump has something on Comey.

LE investigations don't work that way.

If Comey felt that Trump gave him illegal orders, and felt that Trump was a suspect in an investigation, then Comey could lie. He could say that he would agree to do what Trump said, hoping that Trump would say even more incriminating things.

Trump may have thought he was a boss giving orders.

Comey may have thought this was the oddest undercover investigation of his career, in which Comey pretended to be an unethical version of himself.
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Old 20th May 2017, 01:08 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think Trump's lying and Comey's telling the truth, but I don't consider these memos as the rocksolid evidence others seem to be. Ckney wrote them, so why are they more reliable as evidence than hearsay? It's still his claim versus Trump's claim of what happened. That Comey committed his version to paper makes it better? One can only tell the truth in writing? If Trump had scrawled a memo, clutching a crayon in his pudgy little paw, of his version of events would his memo be evidence also?
We didn’t hear about the meeting until after Comey was fired. When we question whether Comey is telling the truth, we have to consider the possibility that he made up the story as revenge for being fired. The memo eliminates that possibility. The memo proves that Comey was making the claim at the time the meeting took place. At that time, Comey didn’t have a motivation to lie. Unless Comey was working some bizarre long con to frame the President, the memo is strong evidence that Comey is telling the truth.
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Old 20th May 2017, 01:13 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Tip for next time: you can also set up a poll non-anonymously.

He could also try to ask halfway non-leading questions, f.e. "Comey, the nut job".
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Old 20th May 2017, 01:16 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
This is vintage Comey. Care to bet? I'll bet you 10K, there are memos. And they materially say what has been reported.
I think you misunderstand me. I didn't say there weren't memos nor that the reported contents are way off base. I just haven't seen anything that suggests Comey is behind the release of the memos.

He might be. He might have released details himself or given permission for others to do so. But at present I have no reason to believe one way or the other.
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Old 20th May 2017, 01:44 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I think you misunderstand me. I didn't say there weren't memos nor that the reported contents are way off base. I just haven't seen anything that suggests Comey is behind the release of the memos.

He might be. He might have released details himself or given permission for others to do so. But at present I have no reason to believe one way or the other.
I don't know for a fact that he is. But I do believe he is. It's classic Washington. People like Comey have lots of friends and allies in different circles. You don't get to be the FBI Director without being a political animal so I bet he has favors he can count on. It's not the kind of thing he would want to directly leak to the press but it is the kind of thing he would want to get leaked.
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Old 21st May 2017, 03:20 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Has anybody seen these memos? Has Comey himself commented on whether they exist?

Oh, sorry, I thought this was a place for skepticism.
Not sure what point you are trying to make?
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Old 21st May 2017, 05:01 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Not sure what point you are trying to make?
I've been catching up on conservative radio talk shows. The current meme is that because we, the public, haven't seen the evidence (or memos), there aren't any and this is all made up and that the story is falling apart rather than gaining momentum.

I don't know whether that was Brainster's point, but it seems to fit that pattern.
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Old 21st May 2017, 05:49 AM   #76
thaiboxerken
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Yea right, I don't believe Trump is lying. Next you'll say he lost the popular vote too or that he didn't win the EC in a landslide, or that he did not have the largest inauguration crowd in history.
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Old 21st May 2017, 05:51 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I've been catching up on conservative radio talk shows. The current meme is that because we, the public, haven't seen the evidence (or memos), there aren't any and this is all made up and that the story is falling apart rather than gaining momentum.

I don't know whether that was Brainster's point, but it seems to fit that pattern.
Oh, I'm sure Comey is lying. Why else would he want to discuss this in a public hearing to Congress instead of behind closed doors? He's hiding something and he doesn't want it to get out in a private, closed door trial.
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Old 21st May 2017, 07:05 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
He could also try to ask halfway non-leading questions, f.e. "Comey, the nut job".
No point in that. As Colin Jost on SNL Weekend Update put it: "Who are you gonna believe: the head of the FBI or the guy who's definitely lying?"
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Old 21st May 2017, 09:38 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Why would seeing the memos be enough? I thought you were arguing for skepticism here.

As a True Skeptic™ I need multiple independent pieces of evidence, preferably video and audio recordings from multiple angles with time-stamps clearly documenting that Comey actually wrote said memos as alleged. Anything short of that would simply be insufficient to convince a True Skeptic™ such as myself to come to a reasonable conclusion. As such I must simply accept that i don't know whether or not Comey wrote any notes at all and it's just as likely that Trump is speaking the Truth as Comey is.
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Old 21st May 2017, 01:16 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
This poll you can trust. It's not like the others.



Come in a landslide!
You are really excited about this. Eww.
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